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2017/11/10 06:26:04
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
lambsandlions wrote:So I am looking at shining spears and I really like the idea of a first turn assault with their 16" move and quicken. But how big of a unit of shining spears should someone take and what are their preferred targets?
Spear can target anything really well. They pair as onpar to better against all enemy units when compared to really anything in the book (may or may not require actualy making melee to do really well). So basically throw them at anything you want dead, and you'll be excited.
Unit size is based on your army. If you wanna go big i'd say take 9, and try to hit two units. Though i'd only go 9 if you plan to also support them with warlock and maybe farseer support. Enhance +1 to hit and supreme disdain is great for killing GEQ/MEQ/TEQ level models. For tanks/monster Empower for +1 to wound works really well as it end up being something like a 50% increase in damage. If you want to throw the squad at a knight Empower/Enhance/supreme disdain (and maaaaaaybe doom) will see the knight dead in one round of combat on average with out even shooting the lances at the guy (you can guarantee the knight dies by throwing the lances at the thing and casting doom he'll die about every time, and autarch sitting around bufffing will also help push those odds). They can do the same against everything in the game to be honest. MAgnus/morty/Girlyman all are shaking in thier boots at the site of a buffed up squad, and with quicken you can gamble on buffing the squad outside of deny range, and then shoot the squad into the thick of things with quicken. Definitely think these are kind of a death starish unit.
Low support or no warlock support i'd just take min squads. They are still good, but the buffs are as amazing unless you get that dramatic force multiplication on tons of models.
Do note if you're worried about them taking heat turn 1 you always have the option to webway them in and quicken them with they drop. Quicken will still let them make charges normal units in that situation couldn't (over the heads of screens and scout screens).
Fafnir wrote:Honestly, with their ability to deepstrike, high mobility, solid saves, ability to use the Fly rule, and static -1 to be hit by shooting, I feel they do a better job at dropping in and tying up enemy units in CC than Scorpions do.
You know i don't disagree with you at all here. They are tough enough to deep strike attempt a long bomb charge, and failing that milk flicker jump and potential cover to tank through the enemy turn and go for the charge after they get thier move in.
I'm in agreement here about Shining Spears. If you have the Warlock support and Farseer support, then 1 big unit is definitely the way to go. Guide, Doom, Empower, Conceal, Protect and Quicken make for an extremely deadly unit. Things like the Biel-Tan stratagem or the Saim-Hann stratagem also serve as back-ups if Quicken fails. However, if you're not going heavy psyker, then smaller units seem better but you have to be more careful with choosing your target.
Spiders - i'm not convinced on yet. I keep coming back to Hawks instead. I kinda see them as a small, deep striking, screening unit there to grab objectives and be annoying. If i want the damage while keeping the in-built -1 to hit, i kinda prefer Shadow Spectres, especially as they can have a longer range and have a higher base move.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
FarseerReborn wrote: Tabled 2000 points of Black templars primaris by turn 4 with this list:
Nice! What went well and what didn't? Also what kind of units were you up against? Did you find it easy to control the objective game whilst still putting out the damage?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/10 08:26:48
2017/11/10 11:10:33
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
He was saying that it was so statistically unlikely that it was basically meaningless. And he's correct.
22% chance to cast all those powers assuming none are denied. Let alone 4 guys within range and spending command points.
It's not meaningless in the slightest. It's the maths on what you can do with some of the Eldar buffs. The maths changes depending on what buffs you get off, but it seems useful to know as it's a big part of what Eldar do now.
So then there's your maths, which I am sure is wrong without checking because you don't have sufficient information. It was just an anecdote to show the potential of Banshees but I'll flesh it out for you and people can do the proper maths if they like:
-IIRC in that psychic phase I cast 6 powers and failed 2. I did not get jinx off on the Trygon or guide on a unit of fire dragons elsewhere.
-One of the powers was cast by my Spiritseer Warlord with the reroll tests trait.
-One was cast by another Spiritseer with the Biel-tan reroll tests relic.
-Another was done by the Farseer who gets awesome rerolls as standard.
-I don't remember if I used a CP reroll but that is also an option.
So 4 out of 6 powers could be rerolled and I failed 2. I can't be bothered to work it out but that doesn't seem especially lucky to me.
EDIT: I did a rough version of the maths and found that I should have cast 4.5 powers successfully. So, once again my anecdote appears to match up perfectly with the averages, but has been disregarded as so unlikely it is meaningless by posters who don't put enough thought into what they write. Sorry if that's snarky.
On your other points:
Command points are easy to spend, you just do it.
Getting the psykers in range is no problem at all, 18" range + 7 + D6" moves plus the fact that they are all part of the same army and deployed together to support one another, you'd have to be pretty bad at the game not to set that up. The speed and range of the psykers also allows you to avoid deny the witch quite easily. Plus the enemies only psyker (swarmlord) had already been vaporized by linked Fire Prisms.
Why disregard things as meaningless when you don't even know the details of what you're commenting on? Ask for more information or just ignore it lol.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/11/10 11:42:35
2017/11/10 12:21:05
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Care to talk about your list a little bit? What were the MVPs andwhat under preformed?
Sure.
First, the enemy forces (maybe I miss something): Stormraven transporting 10 assault marines + chaplain and an armored (T8) dreadnought. His warlord was a captain biker. 3x primaris intercessor squads, 3x razorback/ autocannon full of 10man marines squad, 1 full lascannon predator. 2x deepstriking primaris reavers units.
He had turn 1
Eldar MVPs:
- linked fire is brutal
- guided Dark Reapers + doom + Forewarned destroy everything
- Rangers absorbed 3 turns of autocannon fire from everything he had
- Webway assault 20 man guardians + 2 shuricannon plats killed his warlord
- 2x CH exarchs killed turn 1 the doomed stormraven
- 107 shuriken weapon shots most rerolling 1's (autarch or biel tan trait) can cripple anything
Mission was controlling objectives and destrying heavy support (eternal war mission n.4 i think)
I just unleashed fire upon the enemy ignoring objectives, he was going to give up by turn 2 but we continued till turn 4 to see what would have happened.
Conclusions.
Based on this game, I think the Eldar - SM matchup is strongly in favor of Eldar, unless fighting against a Gulliman parking-lot (and even then probably it would be a closeup)
I have yet to try this list against AM power lists (imperial soup) and Horde lists.
Sure a heavy CC - alpha strike force should be a more tough situation for a shooty Eldar list like this, if I don't get turn 1
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/10 12:28:57
2017/11/10 12:58:42
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
It most certainley is. However playing against someone for the second time with them I found that they went out of their way to kill one of the Prisms asap to more than half the pairs firepower. This makes me want to take 3. For redundancy as well as being able to put a really big hole in lord of war type stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/10 13:49:56
2017/11/10 13:49:10
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
xmbk wrote: I think the problem with Spears is that they are one-hit wonders. Reapers are more likely to be around for a second turn of shooting.
Don't get me wrong, they wreck. But they are juicy targets, especially once they get into melee range.
But I think this is what makes running them MSU style so appealing. Unless your opponent has lots of units with FLY (so other Eldar) or is Ultramarines, you can use 2-3 minimum Spear units to engage most of the opponents units and prevent them from shooting or assaulting in the next turn. That can be incredibly useful. If the opponent is Assault based, the Spear can be used as road-blocks and still put out a good deal of damage in the shooting phase.
Reapers may be a no-brainer choice, but Spears are the thinking player's friend.
-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/10 14:19:30
The big advantages Reapers have over Spears are that they can be protected if you don't get first turn, they get their full output on turn 1, and then they're protected from at least small arms fire by virtue of being far away from the enemy.
A big problem for MSU Spears is that they're unlikely to be able to do everything you want them to do on turn 1, unless you're going second and your opponent moved in close to them. They'd really like to be within 22" at the start of your turn so that they can shoot with their lances and charge. Out to 28" they can advance and shoot with their lances, and at 34" they'll only be able to fire their catapults. You'll often have to decide whether you want to spend their first turn just positioning or whether you want to leave them outside of CC and very close to the enemy.
Meanwhile MSU Reapers are going to be able to fire 2 reaper launchers and a tempest launcher at whatever you want on their first turn.
That said, a 3-man Spears unit which shoots its lances but doesn't charge actually does about the same damage per point to GEQs, MEQs, and MEQs in cover as a 3-man Reaper squad with tempest launcher, and significantly more to a Razorback. But they're having to shoot something in the front whereas the Reapers can pick targets, including splitting fire so that the reaper launchers can hit a vehicle while the Exarch shoots infantry.
The big advantages the Spears have are that they're more durable in the face of anything that can actually fire at the Reapers at full effect (excepting only AP-1 multi-damage), and once they actually do hit CC they're 2-3 times as good against everything compared as the Reapers.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/11/10 15:02:30
2017/11/10 15:45:27
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Shining spears main problem is that they can't hide in a Wave serpent or guarantee to get close enough to the enemy coming out of the Webway. I wouldn't rely on them as my main anti-anything. Cover all your bases with your other choices and use the spears to kill anything they can get hold of. Which they probably will.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/10 15:59:07
2017/11/10 16:00:05
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Can't agree that Spears are more durable, but it does depend on army comp. I think Hemlocks do most of what you want Spears to do, only better.
A 10-strong Reaper unit with Farseer babysitter changes the deep striking strategy of most opponents. It also will likely have a 2+ and -2 to hit, maybe 5+++. You can babysit a 10-strong Spears, but they will be a 1-turn Fire and Forget, using offensive buffs. That does free up your psykers to support other units, but I really like the Reaper firebase for tactical reasons.
Hemlocks are superior screens in every way that I can think of, and they will either absorb more firepower or dish more damage over the course of a game.
2017/11/10 16:11:01
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
They can really catch an unaware model and punish the player for their blunder. They haven't always been the studs and MVPs for me, but they always seem to affect the game when they come in by either drowning some sucker in saves, or just being obnoxiously in the way.
How was the Exarch upgrade on the Crimson Hunters now that it is only 15 points instead of whatever it was in the index. I imagine it was worth it because you get to leverage all of the perks going up against a flier.
2017/11/10 16:27:21
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Spears do far more damage than Hemlocks if they get to do everything. MSU Spears are 2-4x as efficient as undenied Smiting Hemlocks (at 200 points) vs GEQs, MEQs, MEQs in cover, and Razorbacks. They're even more efficient against everything if they don't get to charge but do still shoot their lances, and are better against GEQs and competitive against MEQs with just their catapults.
But yeah, Spears are generally less durable against many short-ranged weapons. MSU Spears take about twice as much damage from bolters or assault cannons. On the other hand, they're slightly more durable vs overcharged plasma and a lot more durable vs d6 damage weapons.
I feel like both are excellent units and I'd really want to include at least one unit of Spears and 1 Hemlock in every list. Like I said earlier, the big issue with MSU Spears is just that they're not reliable turn 1 damage. However, I've found that Alatoic lists can generally afford to take a turn or even two of shooting. You can move most of your stuff up behind a Ranger screen to be in position for a turn 2 offensive. Nothing is very threatening to your Rangers aside from deep-strikers or very fast CC, and if you have Spears behind the Rangers you're going to come out ahead on that trade every time.
But a single 9-man Spears unit stands on its own as one of the strongest choices in the codex. It doesn't take much babysitting to make it incredibly threatening -- after Protect and a single cast of Quicken, everything else is gravy. I'd probably throw in Fortune in case of mortal wounds but not bother with offensive buffs. It's not "fire and forget". It's incredibly hard to kill and it can't be tied up. If Ynnari there's really nothing else in the codex that can realistically compete with its damage output.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/10 16:30:38
2017/11/10 16:30:03
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
I wouldn't really compare Spears to Hemlocks, they're very different units. Hemlocks put out good damage consistently whereas Spears can be used as a hammer to deal huge damage in one go. Hemlocks durability means they don't have the Spears main drawback.
2017/11/10 16:31:54
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Anyone using the Scorpion? Thoughts? How are you building lists with it?
IMHO It's the best and most efficient SuperHeavy the Eldar have. Ironically, the Vampire Hunter, and the Revenant and Phantom titans have the exact same Pulsar guns as the Scorpion (same number of shots with the Scorpion Twin-Linked Pulsars), just more HP (and the ability to split fire).
Even post Forgeworld FAQ (damage is less random so less possibility of crazy damage spikes) It will pretty much wipe out any unit in the game bar a Titan. Even Superheavies with huge invuls will struggle to survive a volley from their gun. Before the FAQ Yvraine could make it shoot twice, which makes Dark Reapers double-tapping look tame in comparison.
Like any Eldar model, it's a lot more delicate than other factions... but deadly. It'll be a firemagnet for sure.
2017/11/10 16:33:52
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Anyone using the Scorpion? Thoughts? How are you building lists with it?
IMHO It's the best and most efficient SuperHeavy the Eldar have. Ironically, the Vampire Hunter, and the Revenant and Phantom titans have the exact same Pulsar guns as the Scorpion (same number of shots with the Scorpion Twin-Linked Pulsars), just more HP (and the ability to split fire).
Even post Forgeworld FAQ (damage is less random so less possibility of crazy damage spikes) It will pretty much wipe out any unit in the game bar a Titan. Even Superheavies with huge invuls will struggle to survive a volley from their gun. Before the FAQ Yvraine could make it shoot twice, which makes Dark Reapers double-tapping look tame in comparison.
Like any Eldar model, it's a lot more delicate than other factions... but deadly. It'll be a firemagnet for sure.
Good to know! I am debating on getting a Vampire Hunter just for giggles!
As for the Scorpion, I love the model, so I am considering one. Anyone have lists with them in it? I heard Cloudstriking them is an option, but this disables Webway as an option (which all my lists use). Would be curious to see how folks handle this limitation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/10 16:34:26
The shining spears are tough enough that they really don't need to hide in a wave serpent, and are more likely to stick around tgan maybe even a repeat squad in a wave serpent if your opponent is he'll vent on killing your unit. Against a good tournament level list your opponent shoukd be capable of opening a wave serpent turn 1. Even more so bringing the wave serpent just about doubles the price of the reaper with out doubling the damage output so the if you take that combos damage out put it becomes laughable.
Thier are no ranged weapons that really take out shining spears well and if your nervous lightning reflexes exist.
In the first game I finally got to get with my craftworld I brought two full squads of spears with 3 warlocks, a hemlocj, and a far seer in the back for support. (I had more stuff and they did well too, but that's beside the point). Faced off against guard with lots of drop plasma and went second. Before my turn started I had spent 5cp but it was the best spent cp ever.
1 shining spear squad was in the webway, one squad wad on the table. I forewarned a squad of scar bikes and turned a unit of plasma axioms to dust getting first blood on the enemies turn,. Then he aimed a plasma squad at my spears and I used lightning fast reactions to force him to shoot other units he wasn't in rapid fire range of or have greatly reduced effect agains the spears. I lost 1 shining spear and a few scat bikes to hisbplasma alpha strike. I took my turn and crippled him barely so we called it in retrospect after he and I talked out the game; he felt he should have let me go first , but he was worried with all my fast moving stuff that unwound have made impossible for him to drop his plans anywhere.
As a side note he said he felt abit powerless against the forewarned scatter pac as there really wasn't anywhere he could drop and do any damagebwith out risk of lose a squad. So auto first blood against many deep strikers is pretty nice.
I think as stated reapers have an edge in that they have ling range this makes them ideal to be forewarned, and protects them from small arms fire, most of which is only really dangerous close up. The reapers also can take advantage of the fabled aliatoc really well because of this providing some.much needed durability.
Both units I think are great and have thier places.
Regardless I'm have fun with my saim-hann airdar list.
2017/11/10 16:34:29
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Thier are no ranged weapons that really take out shining spears well and if your nervous lightning reflexes exist.
Eh. Spears are not that hard to kill. Alaitoc ones with lightning reflexes might be ok. I would usually try and hide them out of LOS but artillery is pretty good against them. In my last game against Nids they hid for the first turn but then got decimated on turn 2 by a pair of Exocrenes and two units of Hive Guard, all of which are perfect for killing Spears.
2017/11/10 17:17:53
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Thier are no ranged weapons that really take out shining spears well and if your nervous lightning reflexes exist.
Eh. Spears are not that hard to kill. Alaitoc ones with lightning reflexes might be ok. I would usually try and hide them out of LOS but artillery is pretty good against them. In my last game against Nids they hid for the first turn but then got decimated on turn 2 by a pair of Exocrenes and two units of Hive Guard, all of which are perfect for killing Spears.
Probably not wise to put your best unit in range of his best units which are perfectly designed to destroy you. Premessure is allowed - exocrines are priority number one against nids and they are 5+ to hit if they move. With quicken if you deploy just out of their range - you are almost always going to be able to charge them on your first turn. You could easily kill them in the shooting phase and assault something else though.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2017/11/10 17:29:10
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Certainly if you're deploying Spears on the table they should probably be Alatoic, like just about every other Eldar unit.
They're actually really durable vs Exocrenes even without lightning reflexes. I don't know what's going to happen to them in the new codex, but as-is a 228 point Exocrene shooting at regular Alatoic Spears expects to kill only 41 points' worth, or only 31 points' worth of MSU Spears if the Exarch's extra wound is in play. This is only about as well as they do against an Alatoic Hemlock, and I think you'd generally be pretty happy to have an Exocrene shooting your Hemlock and hitting on 6s. 3-man Alatoic Spears are more durable than tactical Marines in cover vs an Exocrene, and that's pretty durable. It's also worth keeping in mind that when we do comparisons like this to things like "tactical Marines", we're talking about 13 point models, but nobody actually takes Marines in squads with an average cost of 13 ppw. The Exocrene expects to kill 48 points' worth of a 5-man 90 point lascannon squad in cover.
Impaler cannon Hive Guard with their BS3+ are more dangerous, but they're still only looking at killing ~18% of their points in MSU Spears. This is not a great return.
Alatoic Spears are actually really durable against most stuff that isn't within 12" or just designed to kill them (like autocannons). Happily, most artillery is BS4+ so you're not too worried about it while you hide from everything else.
Edit: And, yeah, meanwhile the Exocrenes and Hive Guard are incredibly vulnerable to all kinds of Eldar toys, including the Spears themselves.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/10 17:32:23
2017/11/10 18:18:14
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Thier are no ranged weapons that really take out shining spears well and if your nervous lightning reflexes exist.
Eh. Spears are not that hard to kill. Alaitoc ones with lightning reflexes might be ok. I would usually try and hide them out of LOS but artillery is pretty good against them. In my last game against Nids they hid for the first turn but then got decimated on turn 2 by a pair of Exocrenes and two units of Hive Guard, all of which are perfect for killing Spears.
Probably not wise to put your best unit in range of his best units which are perfectly designed to destroy you. Premessure is allowed - exocrines are priority number one against nids and they are 5+ to hit if they move. With quicken if you deploy just out of their range - you are almost always going to be able to charge them on your first turn. You could easily kill them in the shooting phase and assault something else though.
Haha. Ok theory hammer for the win. Without giving a blow by blow account trust me when I say there was nowhere to hide them which wouldn't have left them out of the fight for another turn. My only option was to present a lot of threats and accept that something was going to die. My opponent chose well, but not without consequence.
They were not Alaitoc and Exocrenes and Hive Guard work fine against them. No they don't earn their points back against them in a single turn but that's not what long range fire support units do. I don't know exactly what the above maths was based on but exocrenes have 12 shots hitting on 3s doing 2 damage, so that's 2 and a half dead bikes. The long and the short of it is that unless you're stacking negetive hit modifiers or playing against a poor list then Shining Spears can be blown away before they get to do anything. Which is fine because they are super killy when they get there.
Edit: as for the nids being super vulnerable, don't forget to include the -1 to hit them and make sure you run the maths on the effect a podded swarmlord + trygon + 20 stealers has on the eldars ability to shoot exocrenes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/10 18:22:54
2017/11/10 19:04:38
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Iirc monsters without fly can’t go up levels, so put all your vehicles on roofs and laugh as the swarmlord and trygon prime can’t reach you. Most if not all eldar vehicles fly anyways.
2017/11/10 19:09:46
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Is there any merit to using Webway Strike on Shining Spears? 3CP to deep strike Spears and Skyrunner Warlock to Quicken them into Laser Lance range & easy charge distance of a choice target? I’m thinking drop in a minimum sized kamikaze squad that either occupies my opponent for a turn whilst the rest of my force advances or it causes mayhem behind enemy lines if they are ignored. They could also get into combat for protection from retaliatory shooting then fall back but open up shooting again because they have Fly.
Thinking that against my usual opponents (Guard) they could charge a Tank and cost them a rounds shooting to fall back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/10 19:11:36
2017/11/10 19:20:36
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
They were not Alaitoc and Exocrenes and Hive Guard work fine against them. No they don't earn their points back against them in a single turn but that's not what long range fire support units do. I don't know exactly what the above maths was based on but exocrenes have 12 shots hitting on 3s doing 2 damage, so that's 2 and a half dead bikes. The long and the short of it is that unless you're stacking negetive hit modifiers or playing against a poor list then Shining Spears can be blown away before they get to do anything. Which is fine because they are super killy when they get there.
Edit: as for the nids being super vulnerable, don't forget to include the -1 to hit them and make sure you run the maths on the effect a podded swarmlord + trygon + 20 stealers has on the eldars ability to shoot exocrenes.
Oh, I forgot that Exocrines get +1 to hit too. But, yeah, if they're not Alatoic then you're taking significantly more damage. This is why Spears (and everything else) deployed on the table should basically always be Alatoic; just about every list instantly gets better with that one choice. But regardless it's only 1 and a half dead bikes because if you're getting hit with 2-damage shots you're going to start by taking saves on the Exarch. With Alatoic you expect to fail 2 saves vs an Exocrene, which is just a dead Exarch. Spears are far more durable vs Exocrines than a Hemlock or really any Eldar vehicle other than a cheap Serpent or Wraithlord. MSU Spears are more durable vs Exocrines than Swooping Hawks in cover, flickerjumping Warp Spiders, Scorpions in cover, and Wraithguard in cover. You pretty much have to get down to Guardians and Dire Avengers to find something more durable per point. They're just not getting "blown away" without a significant investment from your opponent.
2017/11/10 19:21:14
Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
A big thing I think people are not considering among list building or tactics is what game format are they playing? Standard book missions, ITC or Nova Primers? Scenario plays a massive role in how you play a list and how its going to perform. Weather you play maelstorm missions or ITC missions is going to drastically change the outcome. Games are not won plainly on kills, its also about points. Just something to consider
2017/11/10 19:26:49
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Phoenix8472 wrote: Is there any merit to using Webway Strike on Shining Spears? 3CP to deep strike Spears and Skyrunner Warlock to Quicken them into Laser Lance range & easy charge distance of a choice target? I’m thinking drop in a minimum sized kamikaze squad that either occupies my opponent for a turn whilst the rest of my force advances or it causes mayhem behind enemy lines if they are ignored. They could also get into combat for protection from retaliatory shooting then fall back but open up shooting again because they have Fly.
Thinking that against my usual opponents (Guard) they could charge a Tank and cost them a rounds shooting to fall back.
This is phenomenally powerful and is easily one of the best uses of Webway Strike. Though you probably want to go with a bigger squad since you're spending a CP and already planning on using Quicken. You don't need to deep strike a Warlock because Quicken has 18" range and Spears move 16" after getting hit with it. Especially if you're using a biker Warlock it's not going to be hard to reach one of the Spears unless you're wanting them to come on on your opponent's table edge (and he hasn't denied you the ability to do that). Consider also having another RoB caster use Protect since it gives them a 2+/3++.
2017/11/10 20:03:56
Subject: Re:Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Dionysodorus wrote: This is phenomenally powerful and is easily one of the best uses of Webway Strike. Though you probably want to go with a bigger squad since you're spending a CP and already planning on using Quicken. You don't need to deep strike a Warlock because Quicken has 18" range and Spears move 16" after getting hit with it. Especially if you're using a biker Warlock it's not going to be hard to reach one of the Spears unless you're wanting them to come on on your opponent's table edge (and he hasn't denied you the ability to do that). Consider also having another RoB caster use Protect since it gives them a 2+/3++.
Exactly. It's a lot of points and you risk something not going off (both powers need 7+) but if you can get 7-9 Spears to drop in, get Protect, then Quikcen them, you can assault pretty much anything you want. Preferably multiple units so you can tie up enemy shooting.
