Korlandril wrote:
An idea I like is having a 20 man guardian defender squad with two Shuriken Cannons webway striking in.

You can deepstrike them so they are all in range, into cover if it is available (2+ save on the heavy weapon platforms in cover). These guys can also take up a huge footprint. Blocking off part of the board, objective securing objectives if needed.

With Alaitoc providing you can wipe out anything within 12" you are a lot more durable. Also realistically your opponent can only get so many units within 12" so these are a real pain for your opponent to deal with. Using at the right time can really throw a spanner in the works for your opponent


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For Autarchs if you are running as a warlord to get a roll for each CP you use you will want to deploy first before spending any CP on things like cloudstrike and webway assault. I think you won't be able to roll if you spend on things like extra relics? As these occur before deployment and the rule only works if he is on the table not in transport I believe

 Shadenuat wrote:

mmimzie wrote:
What do you guys think of vypers.

I think they're better alternative to windriders too. The price gap between vyper with 2 shuriken cannons and 2 windriders with same is just too small to validate using regular bikes.

 Korlandril wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:
An idea I like is having a 20 man guardian defender squad with two Shuriken Cannons webway striking in.

You can deepstrike them so they are all in range, into cover if it is available (2+ save on the heavy weapon platforms in cover). These guys can also take up a huge footprint. Blocking off part of the board, objective securing objectives if needed.

With Alaitoc providing you can wipe out anything within 12" you are a lot more durable. Also realistically your opponent can only get so many units within 12" so these are a real pain for your opponent to deal with. Using at the right time can really throw a spanner in the works for your opponent

I don't see much value in cannons over catapults. Ether bright lance or star cannon makes the most sense. Or no weapons at all. Actually thinking about it - weapons platforms are the least effiecent place to put weapons because an 8 point gardian can't shoot - essentially that weapon is costing you +8 points to it's actual cost.

The value in Cannons is you can shoot them after deepstriking with no penalty and they are the cheapest. The idea of them is to massively boost the guardians defence because they are 3+ and 2+ if in cover. This means your opponent has to waste higher AP weaponary or more lower ap on them. So you are wrong they are not a waste as they are a way of increasing the survivability of the squad.

Bright lances would be a waste as only two shots and they are quite expensive and hitting on 4+ on turn they deepstrike. Star Cannons might be a good choice as they are only adding 10 pts to the unit in question but again suffer from -1 to hit and you want to be soaking up wounds with them not relying on them for hitting power.

 Galef wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
You really want to protect your 8 point models by killing a 15 point model?

They idea is that by having a better armour save, you might stop several wounds getting through by making saves that the 8pt models would not be able to make.
I don't think it's a particularly effective tactic at all, but I suppose it gives some people peace of mind. I'd rather just buy 2 more Guardians

-

Drake003 wrote:
With Tyranids our soon, and all their anti psychic options, it seems that they are going to be putting a spanner in the works for as straight away, trying to cast our various buff and de-buff powers.

Depending on the army composition and weapon options encouraged in the Codex, I am going to assume that they won’t have too many flying gribblies (it’s not particularly thematic) and will likely be limited to Gargoyles and Hive Tyrants, as is currently the case.

That being the case, finding ways to slow their advance will be even more critical than before to keep out psychic support up as long as possible.

My first strategic thought is using Air Wing to stop a significant section of their army moving up the board.

I.e. fly 3 Hemlocks up just outside of 12” if Exocrines and their ilk, and as close to the grunts as possible. 3 flyers in a line parallel to the swarm facing 90 degrees and just under 3” apart from each other will generate an impassable line of just under 20” long.

This would be an effective way of shutting down lanes of approach to you.

Sound decent?

 Shadenuat wrote:
-1 is not a huge casting penalty. For example, Eldrad with pocket warlock with stratagem casts at +1 and +2 with next power on a success with re-roll from runes. Biel Tan farseer has a relic that I believe allows to re-roll re-rolls or somethin. Yvraine has flat +1 at all times too, but doesn't have runes so she will probably suffer more.

 Fafnir wrote:
24" range means that your psykers will be relegated to a pretty harmless position if you intend on keeping them out. If they get the first turn, combined with Flyrant shenanigans, they've basically denied your first psychic phase (and sure, it's only one turn, but that matters massively in 8th).

If they get second, you get one turn of action before your psykers are neutered.

Either way, it looks like any game against Tyranids where you don't secure victory on the first turn is going to be a hard loss for Eldar.

 Shadenuat wrote:
The best one of our powers I can think of is Word of the Phoenix, but soulburst can happen without that power too.

Is Kronos a worthy fleet to go if you don't always play against eldar though?

Dionysodorus wrote:
Multiple deep-striking Rippers would be a problem, probably, but I don't feel like it's generally too hard to be 24" away from stuff. A Tyranid player will be able to shut down Doom, but Guide and Fortune cast on friendlies, which are probably closer to your Farseer, and you can move at least 7+d6" before manifesting. The Battle powers are 18" but the ones you really want to get off are also cast on friendlies, and they're also all no-LoS. It's going to be very hard for a Tyranid player to shut down Quicken, Conceal, or Protect.

You push back their deep strikers with your deployment and your Rangers, and you should pretty much always be able to get your first turn buff powers off. I feel like the bigger concern is making sure that your psykers aren't vulnerable to deep strikers on the next turn, after they've moved so as to get their powers off.

 Fafnir wrote:
So, in preparing for a meta where our psychic presence is heavily stifled to the point of being self harming and hemlocks are just not all they're made out to be; what is our identity right now beyond Dark Reapers? Unit synergy is going to become a lot less reliable, and most units look pretty mediocre in the face of that. Is the Craftworld faction going to end up becoming little more than an accessory for Ynnari lists?

 Fafnir wrote:
So what you're saying is that Craftworlds are not competitive.

 Fafnir wrote:
I'd argue that if an army can be hard countered by another faction, it's not competitive. Especially when that faction is looking like it's going to be a major player in the coming meta.

Niiru wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Hive Tyrants will be T7 with the new codex. Although it will be possible to increase that to T8 during the game.

How much are tyrants? I mean they are tougher and have more wounds than wraithlords, and have more attacks, and are faster and can fly, so if they're not at least 250 points then they're kinda broken.

Oh and psychics.

sadhvikv wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Yes. So at T7 - even if you roll 6 hits every time - only 4 will wound and then he will pass 2 invo saves - this leaves you with 4 average damage which doesn't even diminish a hive tyrant. In reality though you only average 3-4 hits and your damage will be 2.

He can even repair D3 with a 1 point stratagem every turn. Hate to say it - but the hemlock craze is all hype. The main reason hemlocks were good was they could cast a conceal bubble and had reliable damage + could get up and smite things in the face late game. Without conceal and with the rise of tyranids - The crimson hunter is taking over. It can play at safe range - has higher damage potential and costs less. Hemlocks aren't even competitive within the craftworld codex I am afraid.

I find this opinion very interesting. What is everyone else's thoughts/experiences on the hemlock vs crimson hunter? I've played two games with the new codex, first with 3 hemlocks and second with 2 hemlocks and a crimson hunter. In that second game my opponent ran three Crimson hunters. The hemlocks outperformed the Crimson hunters considerably, the auto-hits regardless of a degrading profile, combined with -2 with alaitoc, makes them insanely reliable through long portions of the game and require a lot of effort to deal with.

Dionysodorus wrote:
To sum up the issue with Autarch force shields and Hemlock spirit stones:

These aren't listed as wargear on the models, and the ability rules text is different (in minor ways) from the text on models that have the option for wargear of the same name. Absent any FAQs, it seems clear that you wouldn't pay for these.

But there is a FAQ. The Imperium 1 FAQ has a question about Company Champions, who are like Autarchs in that they have an ability with the same name as wargear which bestows an invulnerable save. The answer says they have to pay for their wargear in addition to their weapons.

This leaves us in a pretty unfortunate spot:

First, there's a FAQ addressing a similar issue that says to pay for the stuff.

But obviously this is just not at all discoverable. The same issue exists in the current Codex: Space Marines, but the codex FAQ doesn't mention this. Most new Space Marine players won't even be aware of this, to say nothing of Eldar players. And since it's actually pretty hard to even see why there's an issue here, any Eldar player who isn't extremely plugged-in is probably going to leave it off. I remember several codex reviews that failed to include the cost of these things, and none that did include them, and these are by people who are obviously top 1% in terms of how aware they are of other factions' rules and FAQs and so on. Like, in terms of "how are people actually playing this?", almost certainly the large majority of Eldar players are taking these things for free.

Finally, it doesn't actually seem like the FAQ writer understood the issue. Nothing in the FAQ indicates that the writer was aware that the problem was that the Company Champion does not actually have a piece of wargear called "combat shield". The FAQ reads as if the question is whether models have to pay for wargear which they come with by default. You'll recall that this was a common source of confusion early in 8th -- lots of people were confused whether you even had to pay for default weapons. Further, the section of each index that talks about how you figure out the point cost of units only mentions "models" and "weapons", and (obliquely) "options and upgrades", so there may have been some legitimate confusion here about default wargear. So I think the RAI is really muddy too.

Niiru wrote:

mmimzie wrote:
You 100% have to pay for the spirit stone because thier is FAQ presadent. In imperium one the company commander gas a co bat shield that is not listed in his war gear. In an FAQ the question was asked if thus had to be paid for and the answer was yes. As such you probably also have to pay for the autarch force shield., but as karhedron says this is a sort of boon to the skyrunner autarch.

100% wrong.

Well, you're 100% right if you play a Space Marine army, as the FAQ relates to Space Marines. Not just Vanilla marines, but all the chapters in Index: Imperium1. Wierdly, they then didn't correct the issue with the Space Marine codex - the shield is still listed as an ability not wargear, and the new SM codex FAQ doesn't correct it or specify that you pay for it, so they're back to where they started on that. But there is Index Errata precedent, so people can at least refer to that.

However, this is the Eldar Tactica, and so we only need to follow rules written in the BRB, the Eldar Codex, and any Eldar FAQ/Errata. We do NOT need to follow rules written in some other random codex release that we have no business even looking at. So we don't pay for abilities, until GW specifically says otherwise. They had a chance to correct this with the Codex, and they've had a couple of Errata releases to correct it, and they haven't. So until they do, we save 10 points on the Hemlock.

Will this change when they release the Codex Errata? Probably, if they even think about it. Until then, enjoy your free spirit stones.

I still find it ridiculous that people say this like it's true, as if an Eldar player should turn up to a game with FAQ printouts from armies they don't even play. It's no different than saying "oh, in order to play as Tau, you need to also bring the Necron, Eldar, IG and Tyranid codices with you, otherwise you might not know all the rules relevant to your units!"

If tournaments make a different ruling (which so far most haven't, as far as I've noticed) then that is their business, as they can make up any rules they want, it's their tournament. Tournaments set all sorts of rule changes and limitations, doesn't make any of them the official rules, just the rules for that tournament.

Dionysodorus wrote:
Hunter vs Hemlock is really target-dependent. Assuming a 200 point Hemlock, the 6+ FNP makes the two more-or-less equally durable per point except insofar as the Hemlock's shorter range makes it more vulnerable. This can be a big deal. The Hemlock is far more vulnerable to CC (Hive Tyrants, big Daemons, etc.) even if its overwatch is pretty scary, and it's going to take a lot of opportunistic fire from small arms. On the other hand, the Hemlock doesn't degrade noticeably as it takes damage.

Offensively, the Hemlock is as good or better against almost everything if it can stay away from enemy psykers. Smite puts it over the top. It's far better against things with invulnerable saves or with only a small number of wounds per model.

So for example against a big T7 3+ model, Hemlocks are paying about 28 ppw with Smite, while Hunters are paying 30 ppw (22.5 ppw if it has Fly but not Hard to Hit). If an enemy psyker is around to attempt to deny Smite, then the Hemlock is paying 30.6. It's really only when there are psychic bonuses or penalties involved that the Hemlock falls behind. Shadow in the Warp plus a deny attempt cuts the usefulness of Smite in half, so that the Hemlock is paying 32.2 ppw against T7 3+. Magnus with +2 to his deny rolls is slightly more effective than that, even. Of course, Crimson Hunters also have problems vs Hive Tyrants and Magnus, since they've got good invulnerable saves, but they do significantly better than Hemlocks as long as the Tyrants have wings. On the other hand, Hemlocks don't have to cast Smite, and Jinx on a Tyrant or Magnus is a huge deal if you have other units in place to take advantage of it.

I feel like Hunters have a place at least for the Tyranid matchup, but that Hemlocks are going to be overall better in an army which otherwise is getting right up in the enemy's face. Even against Tyranids, Hemlocks are often going to be able to usefully pick off non-psykers from outside deny range. Plus Hemlocks are just far better against an opponent who doesn't bring big models, especially with their -2 Ld bubble.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Heres the math against a rhino.

Hemlock 3.5hitsx(2/3)wounds = 2.33
Smite assuming no denial or screens = 1.95

4.3 average damage.

Crimson 2x bright lance 1.65 hits +reroll 1's +.222 x (2/3) Wounds x 3.5damage = 4.36
pulse lase 1.65 hits x +.222 x (2/3) wounds x3 damage = 3.75damage x (5/6) 6+ save= 3.14

7.5 average damage.

Again - hemlocks don't deal more damage against a rhino than a hunter even when you factor smite. Plus smite is easily denied or screening by chaff...So really - a hunter is close to being twice as effective against t7 armor as a hemlock.

Hemlocks average 4 shots, not 3.5, and those shots do 2 damage each. Smite also averages only ~1.8 wounds (you may have mistakenly had it do d6 wounds on a 10+ rather than an 11+). They average 7.13 wounds on a Rhino.

Crimson Hunters hit on a 3+ when they move, not a 2+, so they expect 1.33 hits with each kind of weapon, not 1.67. Regular Hunters don't re-roll anything unless the target has Fly. They average 5.33 wounds on a Rhino.

I did some numbers in an earlier post today about how denying affects this. Regular denies only cut Smite to 1.2 average wounds. It's only when you start bringing in SitW or Magnus that it becomes a big problem.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
Am I reading Forewarned correctly?

If you have a unit of say, for example, 10 reapers sitting within 6” of a farseer, they can light up *anything* they can see deepstriking within the 48” range of their weapons for 2 CP? And this happens during the opponents movement phase, like for example, if the opponent with tempestus command squads likes to drop them first turn? And there’s no penalty on the to-hit rolls, like with auspex scan, and they presumably benefit from nearby autarchs and phoenix lord rerolls? And you can do this over and over again until your CPs run out?

Screening against turn one alphastrikes now obsolete?

Azuza001 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Played my first game with ulthwe last night against emperors children. I got to go first and just played defensive. I had 2 - 20 man guardian drops that I saved until he got close on the second turn and I had 20 dire avengers in 2 serpants. The rest of my army was 2 fire prisms a crimson hunter - eldrad a farseer and 2 warlocks and 2 D cannons.

Fire prisms - crimson hunter and D cannons managed to kill a rhino and a 10 man noise marine and seriously hurt a maulerfiend. Next turn he moved up - focued the D cannons and killed both and he tried to damage the prisms with range but failed. Start of turn 2 I brought out all my infantry and it was pretty much over at that point.

1 unit of gardians (w 2 bright lance) I used to destroy his other noise marine rhino with 10 more noise marines in it with the help of doom and Black gardians stratagem (he popped smoke). The prisims killed the 10 noise marines inside with their linked fire stratagem and the low power fire mode (did 12 wounds). The other 20 man guardian dropped in front of his defiler - plus 20 dire avengers also targeted it. I casted jinx of the defiler so those infantry wiped it out with just guide on the guardians and the hunter went (which had conceal on it) killed a dreadnought.

Basically - I felt like I had all the tools to control the game. it really helped having 2 battalions. The ability to drop 40 guardians on someone on demand is REALLY strong though. Ulthwe do it best I think because they can use black guardians on 1 unit and guide the other. Plus the FNP is amazing.

Thats exactly how I felt after playing nids with Eldar. I have heard others say that Eldar don't have good 'horde' control units which I just don't see. Dire Avengers in Serpents with Dual Shuriken Cannons are amazing light infantry wipers.

Your D-Cannons really sound like they scared him. Are they worth picking up? I was thinking of getting a support Battery to put near my Warwalkers as a bit more fire support.

mmimzie wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:



You are basically getting a vindicator for 75 points. They aren't too tough and you can't buff them with spells because they split up after deployment. They seem like a great buy though if you are going for a ranged build.

Yeah i think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I realyl want to put them in my force, but i dontk now if they will work well with my up close and personal army WIth shining spears, scorpions, and swooping hawks being very aggressive. I don't see a lot of options early on in the game for the platforms to start taking any shots.

mmimzie wrote:

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

mmimzie wrote:
Then everything behind the screens will light up the exposed soft meats of your scorpions and banshees 6 serpents just break 11 conscript kills a turn.

How will the opponent chew up scorpions and banshees that are within 1” of units that they have trapped?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Except for armies that fly like Tau suit spam or Mech DE)

As an avid GSC player trapping chaffe is near impossible. It's either they trap you, and no visa verse if you're a good player. You can pile into the chaffe, but they back up and then just shoot you in the face or the things behind the chaffe shoots you in the face.

Most armies actualy don't care about you locking them in combat. Guard have order that let them keep shooting, or enough chaffe to just leave combat with the chaffe and shoot you any way.

https://spikeybits.com/2017/10/top-5-army-lists-in-8th-edition-40k-from-socal-open.html

So looking at those list. I don't see the banshee/scorp serpent spam working against any of those save for maybe the grey knight/AM list where they lack chaffe, but even then i think the grey knight nemsis dreads might just win that melee fight any way.

The other forces ahve enough chaffe or alt deployments where getting locked into combat isn't that big a problem.

The first list has 3 squads of scripts that you just aren't gonna move. Getting them stuck in combat isn't realyl gonna work well because you chose which models in your units die. From thier the gatling cannons and scions are gonna hot drop and rock the melee force.

the second list Has berserks that can win the melee fight, and a decent enough amount of cultist that they could win in the fight or at as a screen to allow the obliterators to live up to thier name sake.

THe third list as i said is a toss up, but if he uses his 60 infantry men to block off your charge you won't get through that fast enough to stop the hurts, and everyone that got out will get rocked. Though i'm not familiar enough with the grey knight stuff to give you a good opinion i'll admit.

The fourth list ifeel good about how this scorp banshee list would do. I think it might be a little bit of a toss up depending on how the soul burst go, but i think the banshee/scorps would have a pretty nice shot.

The 5th list thier is just no chance for the banshee/scorp list too many brims and no way to deal with them, and good damage out put from magnus and the khorne boys to take the game of the chaos players pace.

I think with the addition of the guadian drop this changes a bit though. With a storm guardian drop or two you could clear away a lot f that chaffe in no time.

mmimzie wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It's very easy - with your colsolidate move - you surround 1 modle - thats all you need to do.

Assuming battle shock doesn't exist. Sure... and with AM I can chose to use LD 9 or 4 and use which everyone gives me the best advantage. You can consolidate after I pull models via battle shock.

But look your free to try, and the come back and tell me how that goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It's very easy - with your colsolidate move - you surround 1 modle - thats all you need to do.

I don't think this is easy at all with units that you actually charged. You only consolidate 3". You basically need Fly to have any chance of doing this to something that you didn't already have partially-surrounded -- moving a 1" model all the way around another 1" model already requires a >3" move (your model's center is moving pi inches). But since you have to set this up with your charge and pile in, your opponent will likely be able to remove casualties so as to make it impossible for you to complete the trap with your consolidation. It can be a lot easier if you originally pile into a unit that you didn't charge, though that requires there be a handy unit close by.

Now, with vehicles it's a lot easier. Here casualty removal isn't a problem, because it's a one-model unit.

I agree with this completely.

Kdash wrote:
I’d like to hear peoples thoughts on the idea of Brightlance/Starcannon Saim-Hann Vypers vs the Crimson Hunter Exarch, especially when paired with an Autarch.

2 Bright Lance-Shuriken Cannon Vypers and the Autarch Skyrunner with Lance are 93 points more expensive than the Crimson Hunter Exarch with Bright Lances, but each time I look at the figures, the Vypers are significantly better vs GEQ, and then pretty much on par vs everything else in terms of rough average damage output.

Vs Vyper CHE
GEQ 3.888 1.945
MEQ 2.333 1.783
TEQ (5++) 2.246 2.593
TEQ Stormshield 1.382 1.297
Primaris 3.629 3.566
T5 4.666 4.668
Custodes 1.728 1.686
T6 4.407 4.668
T7 4.147 4.668
T8 3.240 3.501



Overall, both units have 12 wounds, but the CHE has +1 T and is hard to hit. However, the CHE has “somewhat” limited movement options, cannot hold objectives and is an added risk in terms of “Troops on the Ground” rules.
Now, personally I feel like I’ll almost always be running an Autarch warlord due to some of the synergies he already provides, along with the CP regain and being a “potential” melee threat when needed, but others might not agree -especially as I’ve not seen many included in Dakka lists so far.

Starcannon comparison.

Vs Vyper CHE
GEQ 5.184 2.918
MEQ 2.765 2.107
TEQ (5++) 3.283 3.371
TEQ Stormshield 1.901 1.686
Primaris 4.493 4.214
T5 4.493 4.538
Custodes 1.901 1.815
T6 3.370 3.890
T7 2.246 3.242
T8 2.246 2.755

As you can see, again the Vypers tend to do significantly better vs GEQ and standard troops, but starts to suffer from T6+ vs the CHE.
So, thoughts around Vypers vs Crimson Hunter Exarchs? And which would you consider running? The Bright Lances or the Starcannons?

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Thier are no ranged weapons that really take out shining spears well and if your nervous lightning reflexes exist.

Eh. Spears are not that hard to kill. Alaitoc ones with lightning reflexes might be ok. I would usually try and hide them out of LOS but artillery is pretty good against them. In my last game against Nids they hid for the first turn but then got decimated on turn 2 by a pair of Exocrenes and two units of Hive Guard, all of which are perfect for killing Spears.

mmimzie wrote:
The way in running the spears currently

Autarch skyrunner (eye for distant events)
1 far seer
1 warlocks skyrunner (enhance or empower)
2warlocks (protect/quick)
1 hemlock (jinx)

9x spear squad (w/ exarch and star) webway striking
9x spear squad (w/ exarch and star) on the table

I run it saim-hann as modt super competivitice list the -1 to hit doesnt go very far. (Probably why none of the -1 to hit armies havent won any major tournaments). Saim hann gives me the oppurtinity to get first turn charges with bike squads. One getting quickend and one using the saim-hann stratagey. The other thing is the autarch sky runner can turn 1 charge and soak up over watch for one of your bike squad of thier is a crazy flamer unit you are worried about. It also protects against failing short charges.

The modules around this army core have changed in my mind alot, but that core seems pretty solid.

Bharring wrote:
But to take it away you need to come within 12".

Most CWE infantry want you within 12".

Especially Spears.

Dionysodorus wrote:
I think a big squad of Saim-Hann Spears can be a great choice for Ynnari, since they can use the excellent stratagem and only lose the poor Attribute (which is particularly unappealing for Spears since they really want to be charging from within 6"). But for big units of Craftworld Spears with Quicken or MSU Spears it's got to be Alatoic or Ulthwe.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Honestly, it feels like a no-brainer to swap Strength from Death for pretty much any of our faction traits or relics.

Really, the only things that pure Craftworld lists have going for them are those aforementioned faction traits and battle focus, which are both pretty forgettable in comparison, and the Avatar of Khaine, which is absolute garbage.

I strongly disagree. Yeah, you'd generally like to have your big unit of deep-striking Guardians or Spears be Ynnari. You'd prefer that your big unit of Reapers be Ynnari. But a typical Ynnari list also contains a bunch of Soulburst fodder for other units, and you'd prefer that these have Craftworld Attributes. MSU Spears are a great accompaniment to your other units, because they're super-efficient on offense and if they die your big units will get to Soulburst. These can be Alatoic for added turn 1 durability, before your big Spears unit comes in. Guardians in Serpents are probably best as Biel-Tan or Ulthwe rather than Ynnari. Even if their passengers are Ynnari, your vehicles themselves really want to be Alatoic or Ulthwe. Rangers are obviously best as Alatoic. Swooping Hawks and MSU Reapers probably want to be Alatoic too. I think there's probably even a case for small units of Alatoic Shadow Spectres, despite their Soulburst being so good. It's really just the Iyanden and Saim-Hann Attributes that jump out to me as "basically worse than other options in every realistic scenario". Even Biel-Tan has a place, even if it's pretty limited to Serpents with Guardians or Avengers.

Now, the warlord traits and relics are pretty bad, yeah. It's unfortunate that there's very little downside to bringing an Ynnari detachment, since you lose out on so little by not having a Craftworld warlord, and this will only get worse as time goes on.

 lambsandlions wrote:
The is no point in debating how things may be when the new ynnari codex comes out, we can only talk about how things are right now.

The benefit of having your spears be ynnari over craftworld is that you have two shots at quicken/wotp. If have a large unit of 9 spears, you don't want to miss your quicken, you can use wotp as back up. If you have multiple small units of spears you can double move with two units a turn instead of one. It would not be unreasonable to have two units of spears, one gets wotp'd and goes to attack a lone character while the other group of spears gets quickened and attacks the unit the character was with. The quicken'd unit of spears can then attack twice from the soul burst when the character dies or can soul burst out of combat before the enemy can strike back.

Azuza001 wrote:
Why do people keep saying the avatar is garbage? I think it's pretty compatible for the cost.

250 point kaine gets you 5 str 8 attacks at ap-4, plus a ranged attack. It can't be targeted unless closest target. It has a 3+/5++/5+++ save.

It is overcost I think compared to deamon princes but for Eldar they don't have many super heavy hitters that are charecters like this. It can revive on command points. You can use matchless agility on him to give him a 13"+D6" move then another 2d6" charge makes him incredibly fast especially if your opponent has read how "slow the avatar is and how it takes to long to get into close combat" . (This happened last time I played with him, managed to go 23" in first turn and charged into and killed a squad of 3 thunderwolf calvary, at which point my opponent freaked and over reacted shooting a ton into him killing him and only him. Warwalkers and wraithlords took care of the rest)


Or is it because of its high cost compared to say a wraithlord that it gets a bad rap? I mean, I don't mind , I will keep using it because I like the idea of it.

NexAddo wrote:

I don't know why GW limited the use of SfD in the opponent's turn. I think that the nerf of not being able to use the same action for soulburst twice in the same turn was enough of a limitation. Now the only good use of the Word of the Phoenix power is on double-shooting dark reapers that stay in the back of your deployment zone.

There's going to be a lot more lists that are craftworld focused with a little ynnari rather than most of the competitive lists being Ynnari with a little bit of craftworlds.

Spartacus
Post 2017/11/16 18:30:19 Subject: Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!
Shadenuat wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/
Press 40k.

Wrap your Triumvirate box in tape and mail to GW, demand a refund.


Holy hell that is groundbreaking. Was Ynnari really so powerful that they had to demolish it completely? I'm gonna flat out say no.

For all those who haven't seen it, this is in the new Xenos 1 FAQ, see page 2:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_index_xenos_1_en-1.pdf

Damn... either one of those conditions would have been a massive nerf, to be hammered with both is just astounding.

Pretty salty ay. Ynnari was not dominating n the tournament scene. Just made my Harlequin part of my army a waste of time and money. In fact my whole army was built around Ynnari (I only started playing with 8th edition) and now I'm back to the drawing board.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
I exclusively run Doom/Executioner.

And Doom usually takes a back seat to Smite after turn 1. After that, everything's on top of me and most of my army is dead anyway (thanks 8th edition) that my biggest sources of offense are Smite spam.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
Guardians, War Walkers and Wraithguard are not likely to get nerfed imo, if you like any of those: go ahead. HQs should be pretty safe too, maybe a Spiritseer and a Farseer. Actually the only problems are with Shining Spears and Dark Reapers with strength from Death. I seriously hope they nerf Ynnari instead of all Eldar lists...