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 Sarigar wrote:
Going to a 1500 point event today. Trying to see how the Avatar will fare post codex release.

Good luck.

My last list was supposed to be an Avatar list, but after tinkering around for a long while I ended up cutting the Avatar :(

Hope yours does something.

 Korlandril wrote:
Why do you have guardians without weapon platforms that's baaaad

Probably points restrictions by the looks of it. Sure he could probably drop that 4th units of Guardians to add platforms to the other 3, but that reduces his model count quite a bit.

Yeah, avatar isn't the best but can be used to some extent. I use mine with 2 Wraithlords to use as a main frontal force, then use banshees and court of the young king to move those banshees up super fast. Doesn't always work, but the "wait, an Avatar?" Effect can not be denied. People who don't know what it can do and remember it from previous editions spend a lot of time trying to kill it lol.

I would seriously consider the Avatar to be the worst unit in the codex. Even the Wraithknight feels like it'd get more value for its points (and unlike the Avatar, the Wraithknight's only problem is just its points. The Avatar is bad on a fundamental level and needs some serious utility buffs).

And here I am still loving it.

Liking something and it being bad are not mutually exclusive. I started my Eldar army because of the Avatar. Doesn't mean it was a prudent list building decision.

 Galef wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:
Why do you have guardians without weapon platforms that's baaaad

Probably points restrictions by the looks of it. Sure he could probably drop that 4th units of Guardians to add platforms to the other 3, but that reduces his model count quite a bit.

Platforms are the last thing i add to a list, when i need to fill points. At 8points a pop guardians are too expensive to play ablative wounds to a heavy weapon and unlike imperials we are restricted to 12" base guns. I want my guardians up in their face, and hvy weapons get to shoot at 4+ when moving or not at all when advancig, while the shuriken cannon is not worth the points vs. more guardians, assuming we're going within 12" anyway. YMMV but i get guardians for the catapult ( ideally 20 out of the webway )

Cpt. Icanus wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:
Why do you have guardians without weapon platforms that's baaaad

Probably points restrictions by the looks of it. Sure he could probably drop that 4th units of Guardians to add platforms to the other 3, but that reduces his model count quite a bit.

Platforms are the last thing i add to a list, when i need to fill points. At 8points a pop guardians are too expensive to play ablative wounds to a heavy weapon and unlike imperials we are restricted to 12" base guns. I want my guardians up in their face, and hvy weapons get to shoot at 4+ when moving or not at all when advancig, while the shuriken cannon is not worth the points vs. more guardians, assuming we're going within 12" anyway. YMMV but i get guardians for the catapult ( ideally 20 out of the webway )

You don't use guardians as a ablative wounds for platform. You use platform with SC to take wounds for the guardians. Platform has 3+ save, 2 wounds and cost 15 points. You use them to improve survivability of the squad a little bit.

 admironheart wrote:
Tried out a list with Wild Riders and Fieldcraft. I did not have enough CPs but the Saim-Hann is a nice nice detachment for vypers.

The Nova Lance Autarch took out over 400 points of ork characters.

Read the rest, but HOOOLLLLDDD THE PHONE. Would you mind elaborating on this one?

 Sarigar wrote:
Going to a 1500 point event today. Trying to see how the Avatar will fare post codex release.

Finished the event and took 4th (out of 16) in Battle Points and won best painted. It is based off battle points with win/loss as tie breaker.

Game 1 vs Ultramarine with Roboute Guilliman. I actually never faced that model before and he was a beast and I under estimated him. He killed so much and shrugged off an Avatar charge and killed the Avatar. I tabled him on turn 5 but we used War zone Atlanta missions and as such, I actually lost the game 20-21, haha!

Game 2 vs Ulthwe. 4 Squads of Reapers with Maugan Ra supported by 50 Guardians. I had to deal with the Reapers fast and I killed three units on turn 1 with Hemlocks, but this spread me out way too far and massed shooting, Smite and Executioner peeled a flier away per turn. Guardian fire doesn't seem like much until you face off against 36 shots on a Doomed Hemlock. I lost this game badly. 21-5.

Game 3 vs Imperial. Lots of Scions deep striking, Imperial characters and 2 Marine flyers. I bubble wrapped, my opponent got too close and killed various Guardians. Avatar kept things in line and then the game was over. My opponent conceded turn 3. 33-0.

I didn't have weapon platforms painted yet, so they stayed at home. But, I will run Cannon platforms to be sure. Storm Guardians are cool just for the 2 Flamers (game 3 they excelled). At 1500 points, I had too much expensive stuff. The Eldar army I played against was much better designed and his first game showed Reapers/Maugan Ra were very efficient (It is like getting multiple free Guide on Reapers).

With massed Guardians, I am on the fence with the Avatar. If I have Alaitoc trait, Puritanical Leader is available, but with diminished range. Iyanden would help as well, and I have 20 more Guardians currently being painted. I lost him in games 1 and 2, but I did try to take down a Primarch. He destroyed an Avatar, a Stormhawk and kept Guardians Morale in check in all three games.

1500 points was also interesting as I finished all games within time where I have had some games at 2000 points Not finish on time. But, list building is a bit more tricky. I would drop to 2 fliers and run two Battalion Detachments with Reaper support, which was a massive hole in my list (I play with only what I have painted).

545 or so points for 4x3 Reapers and Maugan Ra? Wow. Super efficient.

Hemlock Airwing Detachment is just brutal. I only lost any fliers against another Eldar army and in that game, I lost all three.

Fun games and I will keep tweaking to make this a 2000 point list as I have a 2 day tourney next month using War Zone Atlanta missions. They do play a lot different than book missions which does factor into list design.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 clodax66 wrote:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:
Why do you have guardians without weapon platforms that's baaaad

Probably points restrictions by the looks of it. Sure he could probably drop that 4th units of Guardians to add platforms to the other 3, but that reduces his model count quite a bit.

Platforms are the last thing i add to a list, when i need to fill points. At 8points a pop guardians are too expensive to play ablative wounds to a heavy weapon and unlike imperials we are restricted to 12" base guns. I want my guardians up in their face, and hvy weapons get to shoot at 4+ when moving or not at all when advancig, while the shuriken cannon is not worth the points vs. more guardians, assuming we're going within 12" anyway. YMMV but i get guardians for the catapult ( ideally 20 out of the webway )

You don't use guardians as a ablative wounds for platform. You use platform with SC to take wounds for the guardians. Platform has 3+ save, 2 wounds and cost 15 points. You use them to improve survivability of the squad a little bit.

Correct, and things like Protect/Fortune/Ulthwe trait adds to the resiliency of the platforms.

 clodax66 wrote:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:
Why do you have guardians without weapon platforms that's baaaad

Probably points restrictions by the looks of it. Sure he could probably drop that 4th units of Guardians to add platforms to the other 3, but that reduces his model count quite a bit.

Platforms are the last thing i add to a list, when i need to fill points. At 8points a pop guardians are too expensive to play ablative wounds to a heavy weapon and unlike imperials we are restricted to 12" base guns. I want my guardians up in their face, and hvy weapons get to shoot at 4+ when moving or not at all when advancig, while the shuriken cannon is not worth the points vs. more guardians, assuming we're going within 12" anyway. YMMV but i get guardians for the catapult ( ideally 20 out of the webway )

You don't use guardians as a ablative wounds for platform. You use platform with SC to take wounds for the guardians. Platform has 3+ save, 2 wounds and cost 15 points. You use them to improve survivability of the squad a little bit.

Exactly this, cheaper than two guardians with better save. In cover and or Protect for 2+ save.

You can be clever with this assigning wounds to either guardians or the platforms depending on what's shooting, damage 2+ on to guardians for example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sarigar wrote:

I didn't have weapon platforms painted yet, so they stayed at home. But, I will run Cannon platforms to be sure. Storm Guardians are cool just for the 2 Flamers (game 3 they excelled). At 1500 points, I had too much expensive stuff. The Eldar army I played against was much better designed and his first game showed Reapers/Maugan Ra were very efficient (It is like getting multiple free Guide on Reapers).

Maugan Ra is reroll 1's to hit only, saying it is like multiple free guides seems like your opponent was rerolling all hits, is this true?

Either way you can achieve the same with an Autarch for cheaper just diminished firepower if you went for just a Reaper Launcher loadout

Can anyone explain the use of Aeldari blades over chainswords on Storm Guardians? They are now the same cost in the codex but the chainswords appear more effective. Is there a particular enemy where the Aeldari blades are better? Or is it just to prevent a bad round of hit rolls from ruining an assault?

 Korlandril wrote:

 clodax66 wrote:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:
Why do you have guardians without weapon platforms that's baaaad

Probably points restrictions by the looks of it. Sure he could probably drop that 4th units of Guardians to add platforms to the other 3, but that reduces his model count quite a bit.

Platforms are the last thing i add to a list, when i need to fill points. At 8points a pop guardians are too expensive to play ablative wounds to a heavy weapon and unlike imperials we are restricted to 12" base guns. I want my guardians up in their face, and hvy weapons get to shoot at 4+ when moving or not at all when advancig, while the shuriken cannon is not worth the points vs. more guardians, assuming we're going within 12" anyway. YMMV but i get guardians for the catapult ( ideally 20 out of the webway )

You don't use guardians as a ablative wounds for platform. You use platform with SC to take wounds for the guardians. Platform has 3+ save, 2 wounds and cost 15 points. You use them to improve survivability of the squad a little bit.

Exactly this, cheaper than two guardians with better save. In cover and or Protect for 2+ save.

You can be clever with this assigning wounds to either guardians or the platforms depending on what's shooting, damage 2+ on to guardians for example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sarigar wrote:

I didn't have weapon platforms painted yet, so they stayed at home. But, I will run Cannon platforms to be sure. Storm Guardians are cool just for the 2 Flamers (game 3 they excelled). At 1500 points, I had too much expensive stuff. The Eldar army I played against was much better designed and his first game showed Reapers/Maugan Ra were very efficient (It is like getting multiple free Guide on Reapers).

Maugan Ra is reroll 1's to hit only, saying it is like multiple free guides seems like your opponent was rerolling all hits, is this true?

Either way you can achieve the same with an Autarch for cheaper just diminished firepower if you went for just a Reaper Launcher loadout

Pretty sure I may have misspoke a bit, after thinking a bit on it. Maugan Ra hit on 2+ with a reroll. Reapers were pretty much eliminated in my game, so it may have been reroll of 1 only. My opponent also had an Autarch and could cast Guide fro Eldrad, so the entire army ended up with some type of reroll mechanic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

craftworld_uk wrote:
Can anyone explain the use of Aeldari blades over chainswords on Storm Guardians? They are now the same cost in the codex but the chainswords appear more effective. Is there a particular enemy where the Aeldari blades are better? Or is it just to prevent a bad round of hit rolls from ruining an assault?

I think chainswords are a better option. In my particular case, it's a matter of what I have modeled on models and how many chainswords I have available. I ended up with a lot more Aeldari Blades than Chainswords over time. I've found (so far), I'm using Storm Guardians to get access to the 2 Flamers per squad; they get shot up pretty quick.

Going to get back to 40k and I'm starting an Eldar army. Had 3 questions.

1) What units are absolutely terrible and will never see the light of day? Essentially what are Eldar's 8th Edition Centurion Devs.

2) How do you keep your webway portal guardians buffed? I.e what supports them to cast the powers? Farseer on bike?

3) Can an all wraith army work. Not wraithknight won't buy that but wraithguard and wraithlords.

4) Should I buy the Ynnari three characters? Or can I run Craftworld and be just as competitive?

Thanks!

A single ws3+ attack with a reroll to hit gives 0.88 hits per storm guardian, two ws3+ attacks gives 1.32 hits per storm guardian. Always take the chainswords, they're 50% more effective.

 Sarigar wrote:
Pretty sure I may have misspoke a bit, after thinking a bit on it. Maugan Ra hit on 2+ with a reroll. Reapers were pretty much eliminated in my game, so it may have been reroll of 1 only. My opponent also had an Autarch and could cast Guide fro Eldrad, so the entire army ended up with some type of reroll mechanic.

Just checking, have seen it before where something hasn't been played properly. But sounds like an interesting list to play against. What strats did your opponent use? Were guardians just for screening or did he try any webway bombs?

Also interested to hear what strats you used, did you use the one to resurrect the Avatar at all?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Incognito15 wrote:
Going to get back to 40k and I'm starting an Eldar army. Had 3 questions.

1) What units are absolutely terrible and will never see the light of day? Essentially what are Eldar's 8th Edition Centurion Devs.

2) How do you keep your webway portal guardians buffed? I.e what supports them to cast the powers? Farseer on bike?

3) Can an all wraith army work. Not wraithknight won't buy that but wraithguard and wraithlords.

4) Should I buy the Ynnari three characters? Or can I run Craftworld and be just as competitive?

Thanks!

1) I don't think there is something so terrible it will never see the light of day, certainly less competitive choices but nothing so bad I would argue

2) Bike warlocks and farseers are obviously good for their added movement but both are costly when warlocks are good for being cheap HQs, though you would want a Spiritseer over a foot warlock because they are so much better for 10pts extra

3) In what sense would you want it to work? It can, but it would be without many command points to play with as you can't make use of battalions

4) You don't need to buy Ynnari the characters, Craftworlds are fine in their own

 Puganaut wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
Tried out a list with Wild Riders and Fieldcraft. I did not have enough CPs but the Saim-Hann is a nice nice detachment for vypers.

The Nova Lance Autarch took out over 400 points of ork characters.

Read the rest, but HOOOLLLLDDD THE PHONE. Would you mind elaborating on this one?

Never Played orks....he had 2 burner tank units from Forgeworld and 2 big walkers from forgeworld. The spears went after the first walker and th Nova Lance autarch went after a burner. He did like 4 wounds to the burner....no big impact....the spears meanwhile took out one of his forgeworld big walkers.

He charges his big CC boss into the Autarch Skyrunner and does like 2 wounds to him....The skyrunner kills the big boss in hth with a slew of 6's for 4 wounds each on the Nova Lance.

Next the Autarch flys over and kills 2 warp boyz in short range hth and charges the other 2 and they both die.

He is fed up with this and charges a CC equipped Mek boy into the Autarch who makes all his saves and finishes him off ....next turn he kills some other ork character(maybe mekboy with grot)

He then gets shot to death by the 2nd forgeworld walker.....but he terrorized all his characters.

Incognito15 wrote:

1) What units are absolutely terrible and will never see the light of day? Essentially what are Eldar's 8th Edition Centurion Devs.

Storm Guardians, Wrauthknights and the Avatar all seem pretty poor this edition. Possibly not unusable but you will struggle to make them pay for their points.

Incognito15 wrote:

2) How do you keep your webway portal guardians buffed? I.e what supports them to cast the powers? Farseer on bike?

Bikeseer is one option, the Alaitoc Relic that allows you to Deep Strike a character works well too. Autarchs can take Hawk Wings which give them the ability to Deep Strike too. Plenty of options available.

Incognito15 wrote:

3) Can an all wraith army work. Not wraithknight won't buy that but wraithguard and wraithlords.

Wraithguard and Hemlocks are extremely good in 8th but I think a pure Wraith army might struggle. I find the Eldar Stratagems are really strong and you will usually want 3 Troops units for a Battalion just to supply some CPs. Take 3 5-man squads of Rangers in an Alaitoc detachment if you want to keep your non-Wraith units to a minimum but you will struggle without some Troop investment. Wraithlords are OK now they are T8. I like dual Shuricannon and Glaive and keep them Advancing into the opponent's face. They are just about cheap enough and durable enough to work as a distraction carnifex while the Wraithguard scoot up the table in their Wave Serpents. Wraithknight is badly overcosted in 8th though and probably not worth the points.

Incognito15 wrote:

4) Should I buy the Ynnari three characters? Or can I run Craftworld and be just as competitive?

Craftworlds are very competitive and playing Ynnari will actually stop you using Craftworld Traits. Having said that, Ynnari have different tricks up their sleeves. I don't really think they are better, just different.

Having said that, they are lovely models and I am really enjoying taking the time to paint mine up as centerpieces, especially the Yncarne. By getting 3 characters, you get the opportunity to run a somewhat different flavour of Eldar and that can make a fun change. Do you need them to be competitive? No! Will they add some interesting variety to you army? I think so.

Anyone tried to come up with math for Enhance and Empower compared to just Smiting the enemy unit? When do I want to use these, unless it's obvious (like 10 Wraithblades)? How about Drain and Enervate, what do I use them on, and what kind of eldar things won't die after getting charged even with -1 to hit, concidering we're within '18 of enemy unit already.

It seems like by design we have 2 ranged runes, 2 melee and 2 utility. From them, 1 ranged has as many applications as Doom (Jinx) and seems too good not to take - not to mention it carries with it a powerful buff as well. Reveal is not bad, but already situational. Extra movement phase has many applications, but Embolden/Horrify looks like Mind War/Hemlock thing only.

Jinx stands out from those just like Doom stands out from whole Fate tree. You'd think Enhance is so situational that it should work just like Jinx & Doom, yet it doesn't.

This makes me concider a 2 warlock conclave to merge rarely used powers with better ones. Say I will pay 15 more points than a Spiritseer. It's same wounds, 2 extra attacks and 1 extra shot, although SS hits on 2+ re-rolling 1's, of course. Let's say I just want to Quicken 1 unit of Shining Spears, and then I really don't need this power that much. So a 2 model council could take Conceal/Reveal & Quicken/Restrain, and use Reveal later. At the same time I get access to 2 Stratagems - '36 inch one and +1 to tests (for Eldrad it could mean +2 for tests).
Baby Smite sucks, of course, but I am concidering the option. Another point to SS is that SS can take either Seer of the Shifting Vector or Stone of Anath'lan.

 Korlandril wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
Pretty sure I may have misspoke a bit, after thinking a bit on it. Maugan Ra hit on 2+ with a reroll. Reapers were pretty much eliminated in my game, so it may have been reroll of 1 only. My opponent also had an Autarch and could cast Guide fro Eldrad, so the entire army ended up with some type of reroll mechanic.

Just checking, have seen it before where something hasn't been played properly. But sounds like an interesting list to play against. What strats did your opponent use? Were guardians just for screening or did he try any webway bombs?

Also interested to hear what strats you used, did you use the one to resurrect the Avatar at all?

Roughly, his list was the following (3 Detachments which was the max for this event) I think it was a Battalion, Supreme Command, and Vanguard (Heavy Support choices)

Avatar
Eldrad
Maugan Ra
2 x 1 Warlock
1 x 1 Autarch

1 x 20 Guardians, 2 Shuriken Cannon
3 x 10 Guardians, Shuriken Cannon (each squad)

4 x 3 Dark Reapers, 2 Reaper Launchers, 1 Tempest Launcher (each squad)



My opponent ran 50 Guardians and fairly aggressive. He had 30 bodies spread about to ensure reserve units had to drop in front of the Guardians and not by his Dark Reapers. Plus, he kept Eldrad within 6" of a Dark Reaper unit for other units coming from reserves IOT utilize Forewarning Stratagem. In our game, he used a 20 strong squad to drop onto the Relic turn 1 via Webway Strike Strategem, then cast Quicken for better positioning, obliterated one of my Guardian squads, then used Fire and Fade Stratagem to get better distance and into a ruin. While I was able to cripple his Dark Reapers with Hemlocks, it put my Hemlocks square into range of his Guardian horde. Smite, Executioner, Doom, Guide, Jinx all got cast and massed Shuriken Catapults/Cannons destroyed one, and severaly damaged a second one after a single turn of fire. I definitely did not expect that, so it was a great learning lesson.


I did finally see why it is useful to take a Warlock over a Spirit Seer. My opponent would use the Seer Council stratagem to help cast Quicken from a Warlock, which was very beneficial. Also, my oponent had Eldrad, so casting a power with a +1, then helped him increase his odds to get a good Smite roll (11+) since he then had a +2 to his dice rolls after the first successfully cast power. He ended up with psychic tests of 11+ two times with Smite in my game alone. I'll most likely run a single Warlock for this reason alone in future games.

My only shining moment in the game was baiting him to charge his Avatar into my Avatar. I saved 3 CP to save mine so I could kill his Avatar off to net me Slay the Warlord.

I think my list really just came down to my opponents not really being able to deal with 3 Hemlocks. I'd like to say my cunning tactics surprised my opponents, but this simply was not the case. My first game against Ultramarines, I just killed off the threats to my Hemlocks. In turns 3-5, my Hemlocks picked off targets with no retaliation. My third game, by using Guardians to bubble wrap and protect my fliers from Scions with Melta/Plasma deep strikes, the game was pretty much over by the end of turn 1; he shot up some Guardians with Plasma, but I destroyed both of his fliers, his Warlord, and crippled multiple infantry units. He had about 10 light infantry models left by turn 3 while I lost about 20 Guardians (not even a complete unit was destroyed).

A significant piece my list lacked was being able to really utilize the Forewarning Stratagem. Every game I played in my opponents dropped in units. I really needed a decent Dark Reaper unit to soften up any deep strikers. That will be a given in any army I run in the future. Even if I don't get first turn, Forewarning will still allow me to get at least a round of shooting with them. The Avatar gives me a counter assault, which Shining Spears are better at. I'm likely going to replace the Avatar with 9 Shining Spears once they are painted; that's kinda sad that the points are nearly equal.

I have a 5 game, 2 day event in January which I'm painting and trying to get more test games in. This weekend's single day event used the same missions (Warzone Atlanta) and allowed me to get a feel for the missions and running more Guardians and three Hemlocks. I definitely saw where I lacked army synergy and really am beginning to think one needs to build their army around the Stratagems.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Anyone tried to come up with math for Enhance and Empower compared to just Smiting the enemy unit? When do I want to use these, unless it's obvious (like 10 Wraithblades)? How about Drain and Enervate, what do I use them on, and what kind of eldar things won't die after getting charged even with -1 to hit, concidering we're within '18 of enemy unit already.

Enervate is pretty good for Wraithlords. Block off the charge of a melee unit like Genestealers (not Kraken, obviously) or Boyz, and then use Enervate to make them -1 to wound, turning their 6s into 5s and making it impossible for them to hurt you. It's pretty niche, but pretty impressive when it does its job. Just generally useful for supporting the durability of wraith units.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Anyone tried to come up with math for Enhance and Empower compared to just Smiting the enemy unit? When do I want to use these, unless it's obvious (like 10 Wraithblades)? How about Drain and Enervate, what do I use them on, and what kind of eldar things won't die after getting charged even with -1 to hit, concidering we're within '18 of enemy unit already.

It seems like by design we have 2 ranged runes, 2 melee and 2 utility. From them, 1 ranged has as many applications as Doom (Jinx) and seems too good not to take - not to mention it carries with it a powerful buff as well. Reveal is not bad, but already situational. Extra movement phase has many applications, but Embolden/Horrify looks like Mind War/Hemlock thing only.

Jinx stands out from those just like Doom stands out from whole Fate tree. You'd think Enhance is so situational that it should work just like Jinx & Doom, yet it doesn't.

This makes me concider a 2 warlock conclave to merge rarely used powers with better ones. Say I will pay 15 more points than a Spiritseer. It's same wounds, 2 extra attacks and 1 extra shot, although SS hits on 2+ re-rolling 1's, of course. Let's say I just want to Quicken 1 unit of Shining Spears, and then I really don't need this power that much. So a 2 model council could take Conceal/Reveal & Quicken/Restrain, and use Reveal later. At the same time I get access to 2 Stratagems - '36 inch one and +1 to tests (for Eldrad it could mean +2 for tests).
Baby Smite sucks, of course, but I am concidering the option. Another point to SS is that SS can take either Seer of the Shifting Vector or Stone of Anath'lan.

neat but the council isnt a character and is thus excedingly vulnerable. as your plans hinge on turn 2 the vulnerability kills the idea to me.

mmimzie wrote:
... So a 2 model council could take Conceal/Reveal & Quicken/Restrain, and use Reveal later. At the same time I get access to 2 Stratagems - '36 inch one and +1 to tests (for Eldrad it could mean +2 for tests).
Baby Smite sucks, of course, but I am concidering the option. Another point to SS is that SS can take either Seer of the Shifting Vector or Stone of Anath'lan.

neat but the council isnt a character and is thus excedingly vulnerable. as your plans hinge on turn 2 the vulnerability kills the idea to me.

Yeah, a Conclave has to start the game in a Wave serpent to stand a chance. Although I find this is true for all my psykers- in 8th, if a unit starts on the board, it can die before you get a turn. A two man conclave can get in a Serpent with another 10 man unit. Eldar Psykers can usually move ~14" out of a Serpent before casting, which, combined with the decent range on their powers, means you can buff/debuff whatever you need to. I have not yet felt the need to pay for a bike on anyone.

However, I think you need a 4 man Conclave to be able to cast 2 powers.

To cast, yes, but to actually have - Conclave always knows 2 powers even if there are just 2 warlocks.

They're just 2 small infantry models, probably can be hidden somewhere. They don't even need LOS to the enemy. I want meh '36 Jinx out of Deny range.

But I hear you, not being characters hurts. ...I hope Conclave would get some sort of re-design... in a few years. Eh.

I end up with 3 WS in every list I make, usually with Bright lances. I think they're best main battle tanks in the Codex. Unless you count Crimson Hunter a tank, that is.

Incognito15 wrote:


2) How do you keep your webway portal guardians buffed? I.e what supports them to cast the powers? Farseer on bike?

My personal strategy is to use a lance biketarch + celestial shield. Guardians get the rerolls and are reasonably durable whilst the autarch gets a screen and fire protection. There's quite a bit of synergy there and you're not burning a whole host of points nor CP.

 Shadenuat wrote:
To cast, yes, but to actually have - Conclave always knows 2 powers even if there are just 2 warlocks.

They're just 2 small infantry models, probably can be hidden somewhere. They don't even need LOS to the enemy. I want meh '36 Jinx out of Deny range.

But I hear you, not being characters hurts. ...I hope Conclave would get some sort of re-design... in a few years. Eh.

I end up with 3 WS in every list I make, usually with Bright lances. I think they're best main battle tanks in the Codex. Unless you count Crimson Hunter a tank, that is.

How did I miss that! I thought they only knew 1. I think there is definitely a place for a 2 man Conclave in lists. For 60pts they will often be worth it even if they only get off one 36" range Jinx after jumping out of a Serpent.

Even though the balance between the various Psykers is not perfect, I honestly think it's close enough that the following are all choices worth considering:

Warlock 35
Spiritseer 45
2 man Conclave 60
Farseer 100

That's fairly impressive internal balance for a group of units that are so similar in cost and function.


EDIT: Also, at 240pts total that's a nice combo of HQ's to unlock a battalion and two 1 CP detachments for an 8 CP list. If you've got 10pts spare it's probably worth upgrading the Warlock to another Spiritseer.

Looking at Concordance of Power wording, I got a bit confused: when DO I declare actual target for my debuff powers? I take I just don't declare targets at all until I manifest powers? It's counter intuitive but means enemy has something to be nervous about. And I was always all gentleman like and declared what I am doing before casting.

Yeah it's a bit weird. I just tell my opponent that I'm doing a 36" range Jinx at whatever the target is, but that I only have to spend the command point if the power goes off.


Edit: Ok so looking at this has made me realise that I (and everyone else I've ever played with) have been missing a trick with Psy powers.

1) You roll the Psy test
2) If successful your opponent can try and deny it.
3) If they fail to deny it you resolve the power.

You don't pick the target till step 3 which means that your opponent does not know the target when they have to decide whether or not to Deny the Witch.

That's actually pretty significant.


Edit 2: It also means that you don't have to spend the command point for CoP if you get denied.

Agreed on Hemlocks. Reapers get all the press, but Hemlocks are just as nasty. But some of that is just due to the fact that Flyers don't really work in 40k.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Yeah it's a bit weird. I just tell my opponent that I'm doing a 36" range Jinx at whatever the target is, but that I only have to spend the command point if the power goes off.


Edit: Ok so looking at this has made me realise that I (and everyone else I've ever played with) have been missing a trick with Psy powers.

1) You roll the Psy test
2) If successful your opponent can try and deny it.
3) If they fail to deny it you resolve the power.

You don't pick the target till step 3 which means that your opponent does not know the target when they have to decide whether or not to Deny the Witch.

That's actually pretty significant.


Edit 2: It also means that you don't have to spend the command point for CoP if you get denied.

Mind. Blown.

I never noticed that and am really glad you brought it up!