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 admironheart wrote:
Yes I'm getting tired of conversation after conversation about how 'overpowered' Reapers are at the game tables....and the next sentence out of every mouth......every mouth every time is that Yannari this and Yannari that.....

AAAAAAAAnnnnnndd tI tell them well that IS NOT craftworld.....that is Ynarri.....so don't complain about Craftworld Eldar....complain about Ynarri....

Sheeesh

Um... b.c they are. i love the models and have 10 my self and dont play them. If a SM had a 5pt guy with a 22pt ML that awlays hit on 3+ even if move/against airborne, EVERY freaking SM player would have 30 of them.

The gun is correct priced for sure, but the guy is only 5pts (It doesnt freaking matter if he HAS to take a Reaper Launcher) he is 5pts for a 3+ save, 3+ always to hit Guardian body..... Guardians aren't even 5pts, KABALS aren't even 5pts. If the Body was priced with its abilities he would be 9-10pts.

Ynnari doesnt make them great, it makes a great unit better. If there was no Ynnari you would still see large amounts of them on the table.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
Yes I'm getting tired of conversation after conversation about how 'overpowered' Reapers are at the game tables....and the next sentence out of every mouth......every mouth every time is that Yannari this and Yannari that.....

AAAAAAAAnnnnnndd tI tell them well that IS NOT craftworld.....that is Ynarri.....so don't complain about Craftworld Eldar....complain about Ynarri....

Sheeesh

Um... b.c they are. i love the models and have 10 my self and dont play them. If a SM had a 5pt guy with a 22pt ML that awlays hit on 3+ even if move/against airborne, EVERY freaking SM player would have 30 of them.

The gun is correct priced for sure, but the guy is only 5pts (It doesnt freaking matter if he HAS to take a Reaper Launcher) he is 5pts for a 3+ save, 3+ always to hit Guardian body..... Guardians aren't even 5pts, KABALS aren't even 5pts. If the Body was priced with its abilities he would be 9-10pts.

Ynnari doesnt make them great, it makes a great unit better. If there was no Ynnari you would still see large amounts of them on the table.

Why do I keep reading this argument that the dark reaper body is underpriced at 5pts. Of course it matter that he has to take the gun. Each dark reaper is 27pts, there's no other way to look at it. The gun is priced seperately like that because the autarch can take a reaper launcher. That argument stands if you can take reapers without the gun, in which case eldar dark reaper body only screens would be on the table.

Spears and reapers are great, but it's Ynaari that's making them both into one of the most competitive builds. Mainly spears tbh, reapers manage fine without Ynaari, but it's the Ynaari spears that win games single-handedly.

sadhvikv wrote:

If reapers and spears are nerfed out of existence, I'm not sure there is a top table competitive build possible

This is correct. Craftworlds requires many other units to be buffed if Reapers and Spears are going to be removed.

sadhvikv wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
Yes I'm getting tired of conversation after conversation about how 'overpowered' Reapers are at the game tables....and the next sentence out of every mouth......every mouth every time is that Yannari this and Yannari that.....

AAAAAAAAnnnnnndd tI tell them well that IS NOT craftworld.....that is Ynarri.....so don't complain about Craftworld Eldar....complain about Ynarri....

Sheeesh

Um... b.c they are. i love the models and have 10 my self and dont play them. If a SM had a 5pt guy with a 22pt ML that awlays hit on 3+ even if move/against airborne, EVERY freaking SM player would have 30 of them.

The gun is correct priced for sure, but the guy is only 5pts (It doesnt freaking matter if he HAS to take a Reaper Launcher) he is 5pts for a 3+ save, 3+ always to hit Guardian body..... Guardians aren't even 5pts, KABALS aren't even 5pts. If the Body was priced with its abilities he would be 9-10pts.

Ynnari doesnt make them great, it makes a great unit better. If there was no Ynnari you would still see large amounts of them on the table.

Why do I keep reading this argument that the dark reaper body is underpriced at 5pts. Of course it matter that he has to take the gun. Each dark reaper is 27pts, there's no other way to look at it. The gun is priced seperately like that because the autarch can take a reaper launcher. That argument stands if you can take reapers without the gun, in which case eldar dark reaper body only screens would be on the table.

Spears and reapers are great, but it's Ynaari that's making them both into one of the most competitive builds. Mainly spears tbh, reapers manage fine without Ynaari, but it's the Ynaari spears that win games single-handedly.

It doesnt matter b.c thats not how it works. Here is an Example, a Tnuderfire Cannon MUST take a Tech Marine.. does that mean he should cost 1/2 the points? NO.. b.c you still pay for his abilities and stats, just b.c you are taxed with it doesnt mean you get it at a discount.

Reapers must take the weapon that YOU WANT so there is literally NO TAX, why should a reaper be 1/2 cost for its abilities and stats?


No one here is saying nerf them to be unplayable, just give them a small price increase, Reapers should be 4-5pts more, Shiny Spears 4-5pts more also, and dont let them use stratagems from CWE Traits. Still completely viable, strong, and more balanced.

 Amishprn86 wrote:


No one here is saying nerf them to be unplayable, just give them a small price increase, Reapers should be 4-5pts more, Shiny Spears 4-5pts more .

That's not going to happen though. Reapers will be 40. Spears will be 55.

And honestly, Reapers are still stupid OP even without Ynnari.

sadhvikv wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
Yes I'm getting tired of conversation after conversation about how 'overpowered' Reapers are at the game tables....and the next sentence out of every mouth......every mouth every time is that Yannari this and Yannari that.....

AAAAAAAAnnnnnndd tI tell them well that IS NOT craftworld.....that is Ynarri.....so don't complain about Craftworld Eldar....complain about Ynarri....

Sheeesh

Um... b.c they are. i love the models and have 10 my self and dont play them. If a SM had a 5pt guy with a 22pt ML that awlays hit on 3+ even if move/against airborne, EVERY freaking SM player would have 30 of them.

The gun is correct priced for sure, but the guy is only 5pts (It doesnt freaking matter if he HAS to take a Reaper Launcher) he is 5pts for a 3+ save, 3+ always to hit Guardian body..... Guardians aren't even 5pts, KABALS aren't even 5pts. If the Body was priced with its abilities he would be 9-10pts.

Ynnari doesnt make them great, it makes a great unit better. If there was no Ynnari you would still see large amounts of them on the table.

Why do I keep reading this argument that the dark reaper body is underpriced at 5pts. Of course it matter that he has to take the gun. Each dark reaper is 27pts, there's no other way to look at it. The gun is priced seperately like that because the autarch can take a reaper launcher. That argument stands if you can take reapers without the gun, in which case eldar dark reaper body only screens would be on the table.

Spears and reapers are great, but it's Ynaari that's making them both into one of the most competitive builds. Mainly spears tbh, reapers manage fine without Ynaari, but it's the Ynaari spears that win games single-handedly.

space marines pay 25 points for a worse missile launcher on a worse body. The only thing a devastator has going for him is toughness 4. Dark reapers are a better platform with a better weapon for cheaper, and the internal balance does not justify making reapers that much better than other army's heavy weapon infantry.

stratigo wrote:

sadhvikv wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
Yes I'm getting tired of conversation after conversation about how 'overpowered' Reapers are at the game tables....and the next sentence out of every mouth......every mouth every time is that Yannari this and Yannari that.....

AAAAAAAAnnnnnndd tI tell them well that IS NOT craftworld.....that is Ynarri.....so don't complain about Craftworld Eldar....complain about Ynarri....

Sheeesh

Um... b.c they are. i love the models and have 10 my self and dont play them. If a SM had a 5pt guy with a 22pt ML that awlays hit on 3+ even if move/against airborne, EVERY freaking SM player would have 30 of them.

The gun is correct priced for sure, but the guy is only 5pts (It doesnt freaking matter if he HAS to take a Reaper Launcher) he is 5pts for a 3+ save, 3+ always to hit Guardian body..... Guardians aren't even 5pts, KABALS aren't even 5pts. If the Body was priced with its abilities he would be 9-10pts.

Ynnari doesnt make them great, it makes a great unit better. If there was no Ynnari you would still see large amounts of them on the table.

Why do I keep reading this argument that the dark reaper body is underpriced at 5pts. Of course it matter that he has to take the gun. Each dark reaper is 27pts, there's no other way to look at it. The gun is priced seperately like that because the autarch can take a reaper launcher. That argument stands if you can take reapers without the gun, in which case eldar dark reaper body only screens would be on the table.

Spears and reapers are great, but it's Ynaari that's making them both into one of the most competitive builds. Mainly spears tbh, reapers manage fine without Ynaari, but it's the Ynaari spears that win games single-handedly.

space marines pay 25 points for a worse missile launcher on a worse body. The only thing a devastator has going for him is toughness 4. Dark reapers are a better platform with a better weapon for cheaper, and the internal balance does not justify making reapers that much better than other army's heavy weapon infantry.

This is also a bad argument, comparing the best unit in a codex to a definite do not take competitively in another codex.

Why are striking scorpions and howling banshees so much worse than Khorne berserkers?
Guardsmen compared to guardians?

Don't get me wrong, reapers need a points/rules correction, but they shouldn't be balanced to devastators with missile launchers. Internal balance is important.

Would these two changes fix the Dark Reaper problem?

1. Dark Reaper units are 3-5 models.

2. Ynnari units replace the <CRAFTWORLD>, <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT> and <MASQUE> Keywords with Ynnari.

 Happyjew wrote:
Would these two changes fix the Dark Reaper problem?

1. Dark Reaper units are 3-5 models.

2. Ynnari units replace the <CRAFTWORLD>, <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT> and <MASQUE> Keywords with Ynnari.

Point 2, would help balance Ynaari spears rather than reapers, but I'd agree with point 1. Make both spears and reapers 3-5 and it removes Ynaari from the meta, exarch spamming with small squads is fine compared to the big reaper + spear Ynaari unit.

Another fix is to remove their 3+ to hit always unless they stay still, which means it's much harder to protect them with serpents or deep strike unless you're willing to take the negatives.

Another is to up the points, +7pts would be interesting

sadhvikv wrote:

stratigo wrote:

sadhvikv wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
Yes I'm getting tired of conversation after conversation about how 'overpowered' Reapers are at the game tables....and the next sentence out of every mouth......every mouth every time is that Yannari this and Yannari that.....

AAAAAAAAnnnnnndd tI tell them well that IS NOT craftworld.....that is Ynarri.....so don't complain about Craftworld Eldar....complain about Ynarri....

Sheeesh

Um... b.c they are. i love the models and have 10 my self and dont play them. If a SM had a 5pt guy with a 22pt ML that awlays hit on 3+ even if move/against airborne, EVERY freaking SM player would have 30 of them.

The gun is correct priced for sure, but the guy is only 5pts (It doesnt freaking matter if he HAS to take a Reaper Launcher) he is 5pts for a 3+ save, 3+ always to hit Guardian body..... Guardians aren't even 5pts, KABALS aren't even 5pts. If the Body was priced with its abilities he would be 9-10pts.

Ynnari doesnt make them great, it makes a great unit better. If there was no Ynnari you would still see large amounts of them on the table.

Why do I keep reading this argument that the dark reaper body is underpriced at 5pts. Of course it matter that he has to take the gun. Each dark reaper is 27pts, there's no other way to look at it. The gun is priced seperately like that because the autarch can take a reaper launcher. That argument stands if you can take reapers without the gun, in which case eldar dark reaper body only screens would be on the table.

Spears and reapers are great, but it's Ynaari that's making them both into one of the most competitive builds. Mainly spears tbh, reapers manage fine without Ynaari, but it's the Ynaari spears that win games single-handedly.

space marines pay 25 points for a worse missile launcher on a worse body. The only thing a devastator has going for him is toughness 4. Dark reapers are a better platform with a better weapon for cheaper, and the internal balance does not justify making reapers that much better than other army's heavy weapon infantry.

This is also a bad argument, comparing the best unit in a codex to a definite do not take competitively in another codex.

Why are striking scorpions and howling banshees so much worse than Khorne berserkers?
Guardsmen compared to guardians?

Don't get me wrong, reapers need a points/rules correction, but they shouldn't be balanced to devastators with missile launchers. Internal balance is important.

They’re better than Lascannons too. Dark reapers are arguably the best unit in the game even if you discount ynnari. With ynnari, they are, no question the best unit in the game

sadhvikv wrote:

space marines pay 25 points for a worse missile launcher on a worse body. The only thing a devastator has going for him is toughness 4. Dark reapers are a better platform with a better weapon for cheaper, and the internal balance does not justify making reapers that much better than other army's heavy weapon infantry.

A worse missile launcher? The Marine launcher has a better average damage on the single shot. The 2nd mode is a wash in utility. Reapers kill elites better, Marines kill most horde/screens better.

I won't defend the costs of the body/rules though. That is much more subjective and a slight adjustment is of some sort would probably do well.

Im holding off until March to buy anymore eldar to due to faq. Obviously reapers and shining spears will get nerfed, probably a bit too much like malific lords did but what other units are people anticipating becoming good? Fire Prisms, lots of flyers, maybe fire dragons? Any thoughts?

Craftworlds units in a Ynnari detachment can choose from craftworlds traits?
E.g. Ynnari Shining Spears with saimm Hann trait (reroll charges)

FarseerReborn wrote:
Craftworlds units in a Ynnari detachment can choose from craftworlds traits?
E.g. Ynnari Shining Spears with saimm Hann trait (reroll charges)

No Ynaari units lose craft world traits (e.g. Alaitoc -1 to hit or saim hann reroll charges) and they lose battle focus.

They do still have to pick a craft world, which impacts in a few ways for example:

1) they can use craft world specific strategems, e.g. Saim hann strategem to advance and charge. This is the only real positive strategem that is of significance.

2) they can only embark on wave serpents from the same craft world

3) they can only benefit from the autarch reroll aura if they are from the same craft world


I think a lot of people are thinking they still get craft world traits, and blowing this out of proportion, when the only real benefit of having to pick a craft world is using the saim hann strategem on shining spears or the other one is to use the strategem to take the biel tann relic on a biel-tan Ynaari psyker to improve the chance of getting quicken off.

FarseerReborn wrote:
Craftworlds units in a Ynnari detachment can choose from craftworlds traits?
E.g. Ynnari Shining Spears with saimm Hann trait (reroll charges)

A Ynnari detachment does not unlock Craftworld Stratagems (because you have models that are not Asuryani)
If you have a 2nd detachment that is pure Craftworld then that would unlock use of the Craftworld Stratagems. (all of them, not just a specific craftworld's)

The stratagems list what their legal target is (mostly Asuryani, <Craftworld> or specific units). So long as you meet these requirements you can use craftworld statagems on Ynnari units.

So you can use 'Lightning fast reactions' on a Ynnari Dark Reaper unit to give the enemy -1 to hit (because they are also still Asuryani)
What you can never do is use a Saim-han stratagem on a unit that does not have <Saim-han> as per the statagem rules.

This is why the common tournament list has an Alaitoc detachment (to unlock stratagems and gain the alaitoc -1 trait) and a Ynnari detachment that has a mix of different <Craftworld> units. Like a Saim-Han Shining Spear unit so they can benefit from the stratagem to charge after advancing.

Why are striking scorpions and howling banshees so much worse than Khorne berserkers?

How are Banshees worse than Berserkers? They are a great unit in their own right.
Guardians also have very solid firepower.

Im holding off until March to buy anymore eldar to due to faq.

Why buy dumb miniatures at all? You never know when anything is going to get a nerf. So play with paper pieces instead. Or latest Dawn of War series.

Fire Prisms, lots of flyers, maybe fire dragons? Any thoughts?

These units are already good to great.

pilchard8 wrote:
Im holding off until March to buy anymore eldar to due to faq. Obviously reapers and shining spears will get nerfed, probably a bit too much like malific lords did but what other units are people anticipating becoming good? Fire Prisms, lots of flyers, maybe fire dragons? Any thoughts?

nah, your dudes aren't forge world. Forge world stuff is always up for a "eh, feth it, 300 point increase all around! Except this one, 200 points off. Enjoy your new meta".

 Shadenuat wrote:

Why are striking scorpions and howling banshees so much worse than Khorne berserkers?

How are Banshees worse than Berserkers? They are a great unit in their own right.

How so? Looking at the basic troopers the berserkers get 2 s5 ap1 and 4 s4 ap0 attacks, versus the banshees' 2 s3 ap3 attacks. A berserker costs a few points more, isn't nearly as fast but is a lot tougher (twice as resilient versus bolter fire). A banshee is cheaper, ignores overwatch, is a lot faster but also a lot more fragile.

Based on this I see berserkers as blenders, easy to fit into a list as they do their job without much help (I may be missing some things here, not a chaos player). Banshees won't be killing much without some serious supporting, support which you're then not using on shining spears, wraithblades or w/e. I see them more as throwaway chaff used to deny a shooty unit a turn of fire (as much as it pains me). They could be useful, but a lone vyper or small windrider squad could do this just as well while bringing some more dakka and fly to the table.

Is there something I'm not seeing here? I hope so, I really like the unit and converting up a squad is coming up on my hobby to do list!

Also Banshee's are cheaper than Berserkers. Its 13pts vs 23pts.

Thats not really a comparison, its more like Bloodbrides vs Banshee's would be a fit.

No, that codex doesn't exist.

It's more like Genestealers vs Banshees.

One of those is 2x better than the other, and it's also cheaper.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
No, that codex doesn't exist.

It's more like Genestealers vs Banshees.

One of those is 2x better than the other, and it's also cheaper.

Bloodbrides are DE Elite Wych unit that is 13pts a model, Banshee's are 2x better then the Bloodbrides... man DE is so bad lol.
I understand the codex isnt out yet, but they are perfect examples. Even when the Codex comes out i doubt BB's will be viable.

Bloodbrides are DE Elite Wych unit that is 13pts a model, Banshee's are 2x better then the Bloodbrides... man DE is so bad lol.

Please don't make me sad... :(

I don't know why GW makes it so hard to make Wyches viable in recent editions.

 Eldarsif wrote:

Bloodbrides are DE Elite Wych unit that is 13pts a model, Banshee's are 2x better then the Bloodbrides... man DE is so bad lol.

Please don't make me sad... :(

I don't know why GW makes it so hard to make Wyches viable in recent editions.

Yeah i still cant believe how bad BB's are.... they are 8pt models with a 13pt tag before gear.

I still think Reapers should be 3 to 7 models. I only have 5 of any one color scheme (I have 3) so I am not using more than 5 at a time currently.(and make them a base 8 points much like Fire Dragons)

Although I do have a 6th unpainted one for years...just been waiting to paint it.

The trick is to make any Army that is not solely 1 faction to have a negative 1 CP for each detatchment.

So any Detachment that is not 100% BA, or 100% harlequin, 100% Behemoth is still legal but they lose 2 or more CPs.

That is a mild penalty for min and maxing traits/strategems....but enough that it could discourage a lot.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
No, that codex doesn't exist.

It's more like Genestealers vs Banshees.

One of those is 2x better than the other, and it's also cheaper.

It gets even worse for Scorpions.

Eldar need a lot of love once you get past their upper crust.

 Amishprn86 wrote:


The gun is correct priced for sure, but the guy is only 5pts he is 5pts for a 3+ save, 3+ always to hit Guardian body..... Guardians aren't even 5pts, KABALS aren't even 5pts. If the Body was priced with its abilities he would be 9-10pts. .

Well the Shuriken Catapult is costed at like 2 points each.....compared with a Kabalite...assuming the splinter is a 1 point. So Kabal/Guardian are listed at about 6 points a model. Fire Dragons with a nice grenade are 8 points....so I think the reaper should be about that.

I disagree that the Reaper is worth more than a EML or a ML. Its a no brainer to take the 3pt upgrade for the Exarch. At most it should be 23 points.

Contrary I would make the frag shot more of a str 4, 3 shot 1 wound mode. So not quite as good as a ML Better for hordes and less dangerous to bikers and terminators. That would help the elder on one front and shut a lot up on another front.

So how do you guys plan taking down the flying hippos.

I mean Custodes jetbikes

What units???


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My thoughts that a Wraith list may be the best counter.

T8 Wraithlords neutralize a lot of the Hurricane bolters scariness.

What about WraithBlades or WraithGuard.??

Easy, just Jinx and Doom them. Doom for Dark Reapers, Jinx or anything with more than -3ap. They are not very hard for CWE. Custodes for sure should ally in Culexus assassin's.


My list is basically 12 bikes, 2 Culexus, 1 Vexilus, Celestine+1gem, 3 Seraphim, 2000pts

Edit: Fix my list forgot to add something.

Like we deal with all elite infantry. jinx and doom are brutal for tough units. Lowering the invul save is just crazy good to make those heavy weapons work. But even just shuriken fire will shred them with those debuffs.

5 Dire Avengers: 12 shots, 8 hits, 4.4 wounds. 2.2 on a 5+, 2.2 on a 3+.
I'd say around 2-3 wounds against custodes bikes for a 64 point troop unit is pretty ok.

Smite and Executioner are good too.