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Plus it needs a native 5++ at least. For a unit of that cost to not have an invuln save is completely asinine.

darkarchonlord wrote:
Plus it needs a native 5++ at least. For a unit of that cost to not have an invuln save is completely asinine.

It's even worse than that; the 5++ generator effectively takes up one of two arm slots.

darkarchonlord wrote:
Plus it needs a native 5++ at least. For a unit of that cost to not have an invuln save is completely asinine.

Well, 2 variants do have the invul save.

Really, what needs to happen is that the base cost of the WK be lowered about 100pts, the shield raised to 100pts, and the Suncannon lowered to about 50ish pts

What that would do is make the Wraithcannon variant the cheapest (as it should be) while also making the other 2 variants cheaper than they are now.
Wraithcannon ~400pts
Suncannon/Shield ~450pts
Glaive/Shield ~425 pts

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Alaitoc gives WK around same or better survivability buff as 5++. So Alaitoc+Fortune & 2 Cannons. If you can kill 3.5 average tanks per game you're OK. But d6 damage can be very frustrating.

It's quite hilarious that gun with S16 which is more than most macro weapons has same d6 damage as any other.

Hey all. I am kinda new to eldar, but I just bought a bunch of random things and am not really sure what to synergies. If anyone could make any suggestions id appreciate it.
I currently have. I am totally open to suggestions and what I could get that would allow me to synergize better.

Ynnari
Have all three HQ from the triumvirate box

HQ slots
Avatar of kaine
Asurmen
Baharroth
Eldrad
Farseer
Farseer Skyrunner
Illic Nightspear
Karandras
Maugan Ra
Warlock X3

Troop slots
15 dire avengers
20 guardians 2x heavy platforms (coming in the mail)
20 snipers

Elites
Bonesinger
Striking Scorpions X10

Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks X6

Heavy Support
3x Fire Prisms
15x Dark Reapers

Flyers
2x Hemloc
1 Crimson hunter exarch magnetized to also be a hemloc

Transports
2x wave serpants

1 Wraithknight

 Shadenuat wrote:
It's quite hilarious that gun with S16 which is more than most macro weapons has same d6 damage as any other.

But is doesn't just have D6 damage, it has 2D6 as it has 2 shots that do D6 each. The Wratihcannon WK can do 4D6 damage if all shots hit and wound.
That is quite respectable. It is the overall cost that sucks. 3 Prisms are clearly better and can be hidden much easier.

If a WK was cheaper than 3 Prims (with no other wargear), than it might actually be worth considering. Really, it shouldn't cost much more than 2 Prims

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Not respectable, not really. You're paying premium and taking out a gigantic model to make 4 somewhat better than average AT shots. It's neither exciting, or effective, or reliable, for a model like that.

I'd prefer instead of dropping in points, it got buffed to a real Lord of War. Make it something like 32 wounds, and give it respectable, less random, high damage guns - maybe even with some mortal wounds on a roll of a 6. Let it be 500-600 pts or whatever. Heck, might even make it T9 instead, although it might break armies without S9 AT.

Just dropping WK's cost would make it banal and average, since people would take 2 WK's and they won't do anything other models can't, or behave differently to a bunch of regular tanks. Cheap WK would attract same firepower as expensive one and die all the same to lascannons as 2 any T8 vehicles so why bother fielding it regardless, if it would still be easier to bring down than 2 serpents or alaitoc flyers.

WK would be mediocre if they dropped 200 points, forget 50 or 100. Mortarion and Magnus don't show up at tourneys for a reason; they are solidly good in the current meta, but not extraordinary. In order to be solidly good, a WK must be in their league for points/abilities. A WK can be a bit weaker, due to eldar psychic support, but not substantially so. At present they aren't even anywhere near close to that.
Shadowswords, the two demon primarchs and fire raptors (perhaps not post-nerf, perhaps not post-buff. Maybe the original cost) are what 400-600 models need to look like. Imperial and chaos Knights are in rough shape. Wraith Knights are possibly, without overstatement, the worst unit in the eldar codex.

Shadenuat wrote:

I'd prefer instead of dropping in points, it got buffed to a real Lord of War. Make it something like 32 wounds, and give it respectable, less random, high damage guns - maybe even with some mortal wounds on a roll of a 6. Let it be 500-600 pts or whatever. Heck, might even make it T9 instead, although it might break armies without S9 AT.
.

600 points so we can't fit in 2000 points and it doesn't leave the cabinet?
Over 500 and I would never play it.

drakerocket wrote:WK would be mediocre if they dropped 200 points, forget 50 or 100. Mortarion and Magnus don't show up at tourneys for a reason; they are solidly good in the current meta, but not extraordinary. In order to be solidly good, a WK must be in their league for points/abilities. A WK can be a bit weaker, due to eldar psychic support, but not substantially so. At present they aren't even anywhere near close to that.
Shadowswords, the two demon primarchs and fire raptors (perhaps not post-nerf, perhaps not post-buff. Maybe the original cost) are what 400-600 models need to look like. Imperial and chaos Knights are in rough shape. Wraith Knights are possibly, without overstatement, the worst unit in the eldar codex.

A 250-300 WK at its current power would be mediocre? I'm sorry, but what are you smoking? That would be broken.

The WK needs a native invulnerable, improved invulnerable with the shield, improved suncannon (to be either better or cheaper than the Avenger gatling cannon) and a more reliable Heavy Wraithcannon (why do the punny Adeptus Mechanicus AT guns d6 damage with minimum 3d and those monstrosities don't?), and something to make it special over the clunky, lumbering imperial counterparts. 400-500 seems fine if these points come with power to match.

Paying a premium for the buffs is absurd. You already pay points for the buffer. And Imperial Knights will soon get their codex with their own buffs in the form of stratagems (or even more than that). They will be partially fixed. Our WK? It's doomed. The big FAQ came and GW ignored them.

 DanielFM wrote:
Paying a premium for the buffs is absurd. You already pay points for the buffer. And Imperial Knights will soon get their codex with their own buffs in the form of stratagems (or even more than that). They will be partially fixed. Our WK? It's doomed. The big FAQ came and GW ignored them.

Working as designed. They sold a ridiculous amount of WK's in 7th due to its generous rules. As such, if they were to buff the model, it would not result in large sales because people already have the kits en masse.

Besides points cost, I'd also like to see them relax the weapon options. You should be able to take any option the model kit allows, so suncannon/wraithcannon, wraithcannon/shield, etc. Also, expand the shoulder mounts to allow brightlance and AMLs.

But overall, it still comes down to cost. Typically have mine built with suncannon/shield and 2 starcannons. That's 570pts. Ouch.

Do you guys think the cost may come down in the next Chapter Approved? Or are we stuck with an epic model that's useless?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Do you guys think the cost may come down in the next Chapter Approved? Or are we stuck with an epic model that's useless?

They had two chances to do it (CW codex and Big FAQ) and didn't. It seems like, unless we are super vocal about it, it won't happen.
I feel your pain, my lists also include it for the shake of coolness.

I'm afraid it looks like GW is only 'balancing' units that perform too good instead of also taking care of unused units. Not after first index to codex transfer adjustments that is.

If imperial knights get a points drop in codex, we'll have some footing to push for change. If not, might be tough going.

 Bego wrote:
I'm afraid it looks like GW is only 'balancing' units that perform too good instead of also taking care of unused units. Not after first index to codex transfer adjustments that is.

I think when it comes to buff under used units that seems more the perveiw of chapter approved. While the bi yearly big FAQs are more to nip in the butt stuff they find toxic or just out right too strong.

Can i create Ynnari army with new Battle Brother rules with 3 Detachments: 1: Ynnari from Craftworld, 2: Ynnari from Harlequins, 3: Ynnari from Dark Eldar?


RULES:

BATTLE BROTHERS
All of the units in each Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common. In addition, this keyword cannot
be Chaos, Imperium, Aeldari, Ynnari or Tyranids, unless the Detachment in question is a Fortification Network. This has no effect on your
Army Faction.

Yeah but you will need all 3 ynnari characters, 1 in each detachment.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Yeah but you will need all 3 ynnari characters, 1 in each detachment.

for reference, this is not because of the battle brothers rule itself, but the change to ynnari in index xenos 1

So, if I were to take this list, would I get obliterated by pretty much anything?

HQ
- Farseer
- Spiritseer
TROOP
- 10x Dire Avengers
- 20x Guardians w/ 2x Shuriken Cannons
- 5x Rangers
ELITES
- 5x Wraithblades w/ axes and shields (go in a serpent)
- 5x Wraithguard w/ Wraithcannons (go in other serpent)
FAST ATTACK
- 6x Windriders w/ Shuriken Cannons
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Wraithlord w/ Shuriken Cannons and sword
TRANSPORT
- Wave Serpent w/ 3x Shuriken Cannons
- Wave Serpent w/ 3x Shuriken Cannons
LORD OF WAR
- Wraithknight w/ heavy Wraithcannons

You wouldn’t get obliterated by everything, but, you’d also struggle to win most competitive games imo.

Your main turn 1 threat is the Wraithknight, which, while tough, can be dealt with. Everything else is more turn 2 focused. If the Wraithknight dies first turn, then it makes dealing with the Wraithblades/guards so much easier in the following turn.

You can still win games, but, you really have to pick your targets extremely well.

Kdash wrote:
You wouldn’t get obliterated by everything, but, you’d also struggle to win most competitive games imo.

Your main turn 1 threat is the Wraithknight, which, while tough, can be dealt with. Everything else is more turn 2 focused. If the Wraithknight dies first turn, then it makes dealing with the Wraithblades/guards so much easier in the following turn.

You can still win games, but, you really have to pick your targets extremely well.

Would the knight be better off with the sword and shield for a bit of extra protection? It'd get rid of my only long range strong shooting though

Would it help if the knight could deep strike?

I'd stick to Wraithcannons first. Doing damage in 2 phases is better than in 1.

Skathach is the best version. Its weapon options are just plain better.

 Shadenuat wrote:
I'd stick to Wraithcannons first. Doing damage in 2 phases is better than in 1.

Awesome.

Thanks everyone for your awesome help/suggestions and advice

FarseerReborn wrote:
wow, Dark Reapers nerfed to death

No, they are still competitive, they are just now finally at the correct cost.

I wonder if that WebWay portal will allow units to deploy outside the opponents deployment zone on turn 1?
If it doesn't, I cannot see it having any real purpose (other than looking AWESOME)

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 Galef wrote:
(other that looking AWESOME)

Those wraith heads are beautiful, I want a box of them for conversions.

 Galef wrote:
I wonder if that WebWay portal will allow units to deploy outside the opponents deployment zone on turn 1?
If it doesn't, I cannot see it having any real purpose (other than looking AWESOME)

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Perhaps I read it wrong.....but the leak thread said it had something that permitted units to deploy closer than the 9" minimum normally allowed for reserves. If the portal opens up like 12" away from the opponent....and then additional units deploy within a radius that is closer than 9" it will make Wave Serpents not an Auto choice.

IF this is the case...Wraith blades, the CC units and even Fire Dragons can just open some whoopass now. I would love to dream of dropping a lot of MSU with lowerer power levels but still a big part of the army right into the opponents gunline.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldar Army would almost be fast moving units deployed on the table like Swooping Hawks, Spiders, Bikes, Tanks. And all the footdar would appear with the Webway Gate.

Basically our whole army could be almost anywhere by turn 2/3