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 TheWaspinator wrote:
Wait, do the Blood Angels versions of Primaris kits cost the same but have a bonus option sprue? Doesn't that make the normal versions kind of obsolete?

10 intercessors or hellblasters on the NZ site are $115, the Blood Angel versions are $124.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
Okay so what do you guys think about this:

Blood Angel Captain, give him the Black Rage with the stratagem for one point.

Give him a Thunder Hammer, the relic jetpack, +1 damage warlord trait.

So you basically have a Captain that re-rolls charges, cannot be overwatched, and swings 5 times on the charge with a Thunder Hammer that deals 4 damage, and will probably wound everything on 2s.

Sounds pretty good to me.

I intend to build my captain to be precisely this exact built, but add in an Inferno Pistol and a Death Mask for good measure, so that if he gets close enough to something he can shoot it on the way in, and/or while still engaged. In addition, the leadership ding will help him against a larger unit after he smashes a few models, hopefully.

The only other option I would look at, in lieu of the +1 damage to a weapon trait, would be the Speed of the Primarch trait so he always gets to smash his target first in most any instance. Yea, you lose out on four to five damage potentially (and that's a LOT, comparatively) but if you get charged you can hopefully still smash your opponent before they can even swing on you, which would be hilarious. I would pair that warlord trait with the Relic thunder hammer that isn't unwieldy though if I'm honest.

Fight First mechanics don't work like that. It basically makes the "who goes first" a tie between you and the charger, which means that the person who's turn it is gets to declare first. The warlord trait only does something useful if you're still in the same fight next battle round and nobody else has charged in.

It's a bad trait, basically, and the +1 damage trait is a much better option for your captain.

Ah you're right, I misunderstood the mechanic. Good catch sir. Yea that's not a great trait then, though it can be somewhat useful in a few situations, overall the +1 damage trait is vastly superior.

On the charge, with the Death Visions stratagem, you'd have 5 attacks, hitting on 3+ with re-roll 1's (Average would be 4 to 5 hits, any 2's not-withstanding). This can be mitigated by having Lemartes nearby, since he lets keyword Death Company re-roll ALL failed to-hit rolls. I happen to have a Lemartes and run him regularly, so that's happening here.
With ~5 hits, you'll then wound most anything you swing on with a 2+ (Not a lot of toughness 8 stuff floating around) and anything that's T:8 you'll still hurt on a 3+, so 90+% of the time you're going to average 4 or 5 wounds unless you're just terribly unlucky. That's 16 to 20 wounds against a target, with 4+ invuln saves coming in to negate ~50% of the hits on average, you're still looking to get 8 to 12 wounds on a target in a single round, depending on how well they roll.

It'd be worth it to burn the 3 CP strategem Honor the Chapter (if it's in the codex, I believe folks have said it is) to allow the Captain to fight a second time (a-la the Khorne Berzerkers) and swing five more attacks if he's still alive after taking the return shots for 16 to 20 MORE potential wounds on a target. Or, conversely, do this for a Death Company or Sanguinary Guard unit to really just rip a unit apart. I can see it working VERY well, especially if you have 7+ command points to spare. Use 2 CP for the Descent of Angels or the prior to first turn Death Company free move stratagem, then use the Honor the Chapter once you make it in on a high value target to really make sure it dies. Leaves you 2 CP left over to either re-roll or for a combat interruption on the opponent's fight phase.

I'm liking it. Looking forward to playing a few games with this in the near future.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I am mainly happy that BA are getting access to the Stormraven and Stormtalon and that it looks like we are a potentially half decent army. Certainly better than the last BA Codex. A lot of the points drops are really appreciated as well.

Is the Sanguinary Ancient going down the 8pts too, like the Sanguinary Guard? Or just the 6 for the bolt gun? If it's just the 6 I'll be over by 1pt for my new list :/

Mchaagen wrote:

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Wait, do the Blood Angels versions of Primaris kits cost the same but have a bonus option sprue? Doesn't that make the normal versions kind of obsolete?

10 intercessors or hellblasters on the NZ site are $115, the Blood Angel versions are $124.

And the upgrade frame is $26 on the NZ site. We know from WD that it will be $15 USD.
We also know that the boxes include not one but two upgrade frames for the Hellblasters and Intercessors along with a Blood Angels Primaris transfer sheet while the Aggressors include one upgrade frame and the Blood Angels Primaris transfer sheet.

Don't quote me on this but I'm thinking we'll see them at something like $65USD for the Hellblasters and Intercessors and $55USD for Aggressors. There wasn't really a price-band match to work with($124 for Intercessors/Hellblasters and $105 for Aggressors) so this is just speculative guess-work.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Is the Sanguinary Ancient going down the 8pts too, like the Sanguinary Guard? Or just the 6 for the bolt gun? If it's just the 6 I'll be over by 1pt for my new list :/

Do you have a death mask on your Ancient? If so, drop it and you'll be 1 point under.

I suspect the ancient dropped in points accordingly along side the Sanguinary Guard, but obviously I don't know that till the codex is in-hand.

We'll see. What's your list look like?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 ultimentra wrote:
Okay so what do you guys think about this:

On the charge, with the Death Visions stratagem, you'd have 5 attacks, hitting on 3+ with re-roll 1's (Average would be 4 to 5 hits, any 2's not-withstanding). This can be mitigated by having Lemartes nearby, since he lets keyword Death Company re-roll ALL failed to-hit rolls. I happen to have a Lemartes and run him regularly, so that's happening here.
With ~5 hits, you'll then wound most anything you swing on with a 2+ (Not a lot of toughness 8 stuff floating around) and anything that's T:8 you'll still hurt on a 3+, so 90+% of the time you're going to average 4 or 5 wounds unless you're just terribly unlucky. That's 16 to 20 wounds against a target, with 4+ invuln saves coming in to negate ~50% of the hits on average, you're still looking to get 8 to 12 wounds on a target in a single round, depending on how well they roll.

It'd be worth it to burn the 3 CP strategem Honor the Chapter (if it's in the codex, I believe folks have said it is) to allow the Captain to fight a second time (a-la the Khorne Berzerkers) and swing five more attacks if he's still alive after taking the return shots for 16 to 20 MORE potential wounds on a target. Or, conversely, do this for a Death Company or Sanguinary Guard unit to really just rip a unit apart. I can see it working VERY well, especially if you have 7+ command points to spare. Use 2 CP for the Descent of Angels or the prior to first turn Death Company free move stratagem, then use the Honor the Chapter once you make it in on a high value target to really make sure it dies. Leaves you 2 CP left over to either re-roll or for a combat interruption on the opponent's fight phase.

I'm liking it. Looking forward to playing a few games with this in the near future.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Remember that modifiers come in after rerolls. So Lemartes does not let you reroll those 2s to hit because they hit for the captain when it's time to check for failed hits for rerolls, then the -1 to hit for the thunder hammer is applied after making those 2s to hit miss.

There is a relic thunder hammer that doesn't have the -1 to hit. So you'd have to choose between that and the relic jump pack.

Another thing to consider is there is a stratagem that gives a charging character +d3 attacks. With that, it's quite possible for a thunder hammer captain to take out a baneblade in a single round of combat.

The fluff for it is that a group of Primaris Intercessors and their Lieutenant were performing a small scale assault on a planet, where a much larger threat has been discovered (which will be different depending on my opponent), so a Libararian dread leading some Archangels are coming down to relieve them.

Not sure if it's particularly competitive haha, but it should be fun I think

--- [BATTALION]---
HQ
- Sanguinary Priest w/ jump pack and power fist
- Primaris Lieutenant
TROOP
- 10x Intercessors w/ Auto boltrifles
- 5x Intercessors w/ normal boltrifles
- 5x Intercessors w/ normal boltrifles

---[VANGUARD]---
HQ
- Librarian Dread
ELITES
- 7x Sanguinary Guard w/ 1x death mask, 2x power fist, 2x axe, 3x sword, all w/ angelus bolt guns
- Sanguinary Ancient
- 5x Assault Terminators w/ 2x hammer/shield, 3x claws
- Contemptor Dread w/ Assault Cannon
- Contemptor Dread w/ Assault Cannon
FLIER
- Stormraven w/ Typhoon missile launcher, 2x stormstrike missile launcher, Twin lascannon, 2x hurricane bolters

It's sitting around 1970pts like that. Humming and harring over swapping out the priest and a Sanguinary Guard with the Sanguinor. That puts me at 1999-2001pts, depending on the price of the ancient. But with the priest aiding the guard with his +1 strength, they're wounding most infantry and elites on 2's on the charge, which is glory. But the Sanguinor would give them all extra attacks which would probably help more in the long run, so not sure haha

EDIT: planning on giving the ancient the 5+ disgustingly resilient standard relic, and my warlord (Libby dread) the +1 dmg warlord trait

tneva82 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Wait, do the Blood Angels versions of Primaris kits cost the same but have a bonus option sprue? Doesn't that make the normal versions kind of obsolete?

Not really, since the normal versions will fit your Primaris stuff as well.

Yeah if I wasn't collecting BAngels I wouldn't get their boxed sets even though they come with extra bits for free. I'm actually pleasantly surprised GW are selling them at the same price, it's refreshing to see them not squeezing every bit of money they can out of it

Why wouldn't you buy? You basically say you want to pay more just for fun of it.

They don't cost the same. The normal intercessor and hellblaster box is 45€, the BA one with the extra sprue is 50€. The aggresor his 42,5€ instead of 40€. So basically, they add 2,5€ per extra sprue to the base price. Thats fair, the sprue by himself costs 10€, so you pay 1/4 of the cost.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
Okay so what do you guys think about this:

Blood Angel Captain, give him the Black Rage with the stratagem for one point.

Give him a Thunder Hammer, the relic jetpack, +1 damage warlord trait.

So you basically have a Captain that re-rolls charges, cannot be overwatched, and swings 5 times on the charge with a Thunder Hammer that deals 4 damage, and will probably wound everything on 2s.

Sounds pretty good to me.

I intend to build my captain to be precisely this exact built, but add in an Inferno Pistol and a Death Mask for good measure, so that if he gets close enough to something he can shoot it on the way in, and/or while still engaged. In addition, the leadership ding will help him against a larger unit after he smashes a few models, hopefully.

The only other option I would look at, in lieu of the +1 damage to a weapon trait, would be the Speed of the Primarch trait so he always gets to smash his target first in most any instance. Yea, you lose out on four to five damage potentially (and that's a LOT, comparatively) but if you get charged you can hopefully still smash your opponent before they can even swing on you, which would be hilarious. I would pair that warlord trait with the Relic thunder hammer that isn't unwieldy though if I'm honest.

Fight First mechanics don't work like that. It basically makes the "who goes first" a tie between you and the charger, which means that the person who's turn it is gets to declare first. The warlord trait only does something useful if you're still in the same fight next battle round and nobody else has charged in.

It's a bad trait, basically, and the +1 damage trait is a much better option for your captain.

This is true only if theres just those two units in a combat. If they charge your warlord, but then in their turn they activate first another unit that has charged, then you can activate your warlord before the enemy that has charged him attacks.

Codex Review: Blood Angels Part 1: Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Relics and Psychic Powers

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/12/02/codex-review-blood-angels-part-1-stratagems-warlord-traits-relics-psychic-powers/

The BA Intercessors and Hellblasters did not go up in price. They're $60.

I'm pleasantly surprised by this. I hope it's not a mistake.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The BA Intercessors and Hellblasters did not go up in price. They're $60.

I'm pleasantly surprised by this. I hope it's not a mistake.

Nice! Looks like I will be getting a box of Intercessors next week too.

I am liking what I am seeing from the Codex so far. I am looking forward to formulating this army once I finish with my Crimson Fists.

Loving all this extra stuff I'm hearing.
Will be fun working out some detachments when I get home and figuring out what I want to buy to reinforce my guys.
I'm definitely going to get a Land Speeder Storm. I could do with more Scouts anyway, and I love the look of the model.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The BA Intercessors and Hellblasters did not go up in price. They're $60.

I'm pleasantly surprised by this. I hope it's not a mistake.

Lol, you are right. GW and his crazy prices for different countries. I'm glad for you tought! GW screws USA enough with the exchange rates, you deserve this little "gift"

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Codex Review: Blood Angels Part 1: Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Relics and Psychic Powers

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/12/02/codex-review-blood-angels-part-1-stratagems-warlord-traits-relics-psychic-powers/

Holy gak Martel had better never complain after this anymore.

Any info on what a DC Dread costs now? I hope they didn't left at 128p without wargear...

Librarian in Gravis armour spotted!

When did heavy flamers on the Baal predator become heavy type?

I don't recall seeing that be the case with any of the imperial armies...

 Galas wrote:
Librarian in Gravis armour spotted!

Nice I am genuinely surprised that GW have not used the Angel dex's to add more to the general Primaris range.

 humanas wrote:
Any info on what a DC Dread costs now? I hope they didn't left at 128p without wargear...

I think they're 84 now. furiosos are 80 and librarians are 120.

Wow. This book is good

Hmmm. Alot of good themed stuff in there. Might actually be useful for a Counts-As Night Lords Jump list.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
When did heavy flamers on the Baal predator become heavy type?

I don't recall seeing that be the case with any of the imperial armies...

The heavy flamers have already been heavy type in the index imperium 1. And in the Index Imperium 1 Update 1.1 they changed the flamestormcannon to heavy type. Unless they change it back to assault in the codex the stratagem where the baal predator advances D6+6 is useless because he cannot fire anything.

p5freak wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
When did heavy flamers on the Baal predator become heavy type?

I don't recall seeing that be the case with any of the imperial armies...

The heavy flamers have already been heavy type in the index imperium 1. And in the Index Imperium 1 Update 1.1 they changed the flamestormcannon to heavy type. Unless they change it back to assault in the codex the stratagem where the baal predator advances D6+6 is useless because he cannot fire anything.

I thought it was just added movement, not advancing?

p5freak wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
When did heavy flamers on the Baal predator become heavy type?

I don't recall seeing that be the case with any of the imperial armies...

The heavy flamers have already been heavy type in the index imperium 1. And in the Index Imperium 1 Update 1.1 they changed the flamestormcannon to heavy type. Unless they change it back to assault in the codex the stratagem where the baal predator advances D6+6 is useless because he cannot fire anything.

The Strategem allows moving AND advancing. So the tanks have an 18" move. You just have to use it before advancing. You don't have to actually advance.

-Lucifer Pattern Engines Stratagem: Use before Advancing with a Blood Angels vehicle other than a Blood Angel Dreadnought or a flying vehicle, you can increase the movement of chosen vehicle by 6″ or D6 + 6 if you are a Baal Predator.

Ok, why am i not surprised that GW, for the 1000th time, had a bad choice of words ???? When you advance you cannot fire heavy weapons. Using moving instead of advancing would have caused less confusion, at least for me.

p5freak wrote:
-Lucifer Pattern Engines Stratagem: Use before Advancing with a Blood Angels vehicle other than a Blood Angel Dreadnought or a flying vehicle, you can increase the movement of chosen vehicle by 6″ or D6 + 6 if you are a Baal Predator.

Ok, why am i not surprised that GW, for the 1000th time, had a bad choice of words ???? When you advance you cannot fire heavy weapons. Using moving instead of advancing would have caused less confusion, at least for me.

There's no confusion, they meant Advancing. You'd like it to allow shooting too, sure, but it seems that wasn't their intent.

 Galas wrote:


Librarian in Gravis armour spotted!

Not to crush your dreams.. but I believe that's just the artwork of the regular Primaris Librarian when they released it's points values separately, it just looks like Gravis Armour due to how the Librarian has a psychic hood over himself. If you look at the details the art matches up with the details on the model almost 100%, you have the little eagle crest crowning over the hood, the keys and book on the same side of the belt etc.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

There's no confusion, they meant Advancing. You'd like it to allow shooting too, sure, but it seems that wasn't their intent.

Ok, why would i advance my baal pred D6+6 when i cannot fire any of my guns, because they all are heavy ?

You are right... but to be honest if you look at the Primaris Captain in gravis armour they are the same too... damm you artist!