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10 dark reapers next to a farseer with foreworned stoping deepstrike armys and if you dont go first will destroy flyers ect trying to figure out a counter any ideas

You can only use forewarned once per turn. Two or three deepstriking units and all but one will get through.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
You can only use forewarned once per turn. Two or three deepstriking units and all but one will get through.

Don't deep strike where they can see. Shoot them or block them in some other way first.

I don't think the fact that they can "only" kill one of your units in your own turn is a good thing. They don't have to do it to the first unit that comes down, so distractions that aren't a threat will be ignored.

As has been said, they can only react to 1 unit per turn, so put your important units out of LoS of them.
Also, Reapers are only 1 wound at T3. If you can direct any measure of dakka towards them, they will die.

Thank you for the ideas

Wait until turn 2 to bring in reserves.

Focus all firepower onto the reapers.

Reapers are still a glass cannon.

What army are you playing?

I run Cadians with of bit of Elysian support.

Plan A bait the over watch with 21 point sniper squad than then bring in 60 point rough rider squads.

Plan B leave rough riders in reserves for turn

Either way plasma executioner Russ tanks will focus them followed by basilisk rounds. The free shots on rough riders is an insignificant threat compared to what those reapers can do to my tanks that are 4x the cost.

It's a good tactic, but it won't work agaist every list. Agaist a heavy dakka list reapers should hide in a bunker.

If you go first it shouldn’t be an issue. The reapers are likely hiding in a wave serpent so won’t be there to shoot. If they are, they run the risk of being focus fired down.

To be honest I think an Eldar player can do far worse things with a cp than blowing up a 60 point rough rider unit. Just deep strike/similar everything in the same turn and be happy if he wastes a cp on superkilling some horsemen (I'm assuming you're bringing 2-3 units of them).

I'm pretty sure Forewarned is 2 CP, so if you can get the Eldar player to waste that many command points on a unit of rough riders, that seems to me like a good tradeoff.

It's not that easy to hide from a unit of reapers, (they can move 6" and still fire at full effect with a 48" range) and still land in a place where you can do something useful. Also the exarch can have a tempest launcher, which doesn't require LoS.

If the Eldar player is using the reaper/forewarned strat for area denial, then they won't be in a bunker or in a wave serpent--they'll be on the table.

Personally I like to keep my reapers out of LoS during my opponent's turn, then move them out to shoot and put them back into hiding with a fire and fade stratagem, so shooting them down from across the table is not really possible unless you use guns that don't require LoS.

As an eldar player I have the "reaper farseer forwarn" is a good looking but not as effective as farseer and warwalkers with forwarn from a survival pov. Give them aeldari missile launchers.

Cost is 270 for reapers and 300 for warwalkers but walkers get higher toughness, more wounds, and arguably better save with 4+/5++ vs 3+. The walkers should have no issues surviving vs the 10 reapers. Reapers get more shots sure but like others have said how much of it becomes overkill?

Or you can take both and whatever lives can unload. That's what I have been running with amazing results. Reapers normally die. Warwalkers hardly ever do.

A unit of 10 Reapers should always get one turn of shooting, pretty much nothing you can do about it. Forewarned is only a big deal against certain lists, but 40k has always had a R/P/S element to it. "Don't deepstrike something expensive in sight of Reapers" is a pretty easy strategy to execute.

Azuza001 wrote:
Reapers get more shots sure but like others have said how much of it becomes overkill?

I feel the thing that makes Reapers so strong in this edition is that units do not have to shoot at the same target anymore. Those 10 Reapers can fire 4 models as target A, 3 at target B and 3 at target C, all while the whole unit is Guided. So how can it ever be "overkill"?

That same unit can also be Ynnari and have Yvraine cast Word of the Phoenix on them so they can fire twice in a turn. That's 20 re-rollable missle shots that can target separate enemy units in a single turn.
If done right, Reapers only need to be alive for a single turn to earn back their points.

Foreworned is a nice bonus against Reinforcment tactics, however it is in no way what make Reapers good. In fact, placing a unit in LoS of the Reapers is such an avoidable thing that I am surprised so many people are having an issue. Just don't drop in your valuable unit in LoS or hold it until after you wipe the Reapers.

-

ian wrote:
10 dark reapers next to a farseer with foreworned stoping deepstrike armys and if you dont go first will destroy flyers ect trying to figure out a counter any ideas

I have figured out three good ways to deal with them, given the situation.

#1: I have only 1-2 small deep striking units. Send them in out of LOS of the reapers/Wait to drop them until I've killed the reapers. I.e. 5 scions and a tempestor prime, 5 swooping hawks, 2 units of mandrakes, etc.

#2: I have several deep striking units, but I know he's going to want to kill one in particular (example, I have 1 nemesis dreadknight and 3 strike squads.) I would then use the fact that he must make his decision IMMEDIATELY after I drop the unit, not after I have declared some other action. I drop the cheaper units, he (should) pass them up in favor of the more expensive unit. After deep striking the last cheaper unit, I declare a psychic test/shooting attack, ending the movement phase. I do not drop the expensive unit he wants to kill (or else I drop him out of line of sight, if I have that opportunity.) If he did not choose to shoot the last cheap unit I dropped, he cannot go back and shoot them after I've declared another action.

#3: I have several deep striking units, one more expensive, and I need them all to come down. I'll willingly sacrifice a cheap unit by dropping them in a position to threaten the Reapers on their turn (i.e. 5 mandrakes drop right next to them, ready to use Baleblasts and charge them). The reapers will then take hopefully take them out, but then they cannot use the stratagem again that turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Wait until turn 2 to bring in reserves.

Focus all firepower onto the reapers.

Reapers are still a glass cannon.

Unfortunately, they really aren't. 2+ armor in cover, able to be -1 to hit with Alaitoc tactics, further -1 to hit with Conceal, further -1 to hit with Lightning Reflexes.

If I'm playing eldar and it's an early turn and I see you move to focus my Reapers, I am prepared to make that a giant waste of your firepower.

Get them in CC. As above good eldar players can make them very hard to shoot but there is next to no defense against CC.

Indeed, eldar in general don't have a great chaff to block and if they do commit to that build then they lose their speed.

Further, really anything the gets close to negate the -1 works. Flyers from almost any race work to dakka them to death.

Tyranids are in a good position to deal with them since so many units deepstrike and are cheap enough to lose that there are always more.

Fast CC units for chaos like heldrakes and warptime princes are great. Most anything slaanesh demons have the same fast CC use.

Marines struggle but a dakka stormraven can cure most ills.

Necrons have to rely on wraiths which thankfully are a near hard counte.

Orks should be able to swarm with things like stormboyz.

the_scotsman wrote:

#2: I have several deep striking units, but I know he's going to want to kill one in particular (example, I have 1 nemesis dreadknight and 3 strike squads.) I would then use the fact that he must make his decision IMMEDIATELY after I drop the unit, not after I have declared some other action. I drop the cheaper units, he (should) pass them up in favor of the more expensive unit. After deep striking the last cheaper unit, I declare a psychic test/shooting attack, ending the movement phase. I do not drop the expensive unit he wants to kill (or else I drop him out of line of sight, if I have that opportunity.) If he did not choose to shoot the last cheap unit I dropped, he cannot go back and shoot them after I've declared another action.

Thats a very effective use of knowledge of the rules - knowledge is power guys!

While that is the correct interpretation (I think) I would make it clear to your opponent that he has to make a decision each time you drop a unit, otherwise they may be expecting to simply pick and choose at the end of your phase - avoids some bad situations in your games.

Question - does a unit using Auspex Scanners or Forewarned bypass the usual rules for shooting at a character who isn't the closest target? I don't have the rules in front of me, but from memory I think the rules talk about resolving a shooting attack as if it were the shooting phase, so the restriction would still be in place right?

 Galef wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Reapers get more shots sure but like others have said how much of it becomes overkill?

I feel the thing that makes Reapers so strong in this edition is that units do not have to shoot at the same target anymore. Those 10 Reapers can fire 4 models as target A, 3 at target B and 3 at target C, all while the whole unit is Guided. So how can it ever be "overkill"?

That same unit can also be Ynnari and have Yvraine cast Word of the Phoenix on them so they can fire twice in a turn. That's 20 re-rollable missle shots that can target separate enemy units in a single turn.
If done right, Reapers only need to be alive for a single turn to earn back their points.

Foreworned is a nice bonus against Reinforcment tactics, however it is in no way what make Reapers good. In fact, placing a unit in LoS of the Reapers is such an avoidable thing that I am surprised so many people are having an issue. Just don't drop in your valuable unit in LoS or hold it until after you wipe the Reapers.

-

I was talking about with forwarned they could be overkill since you can only shoot at the unit coming onto the field.

If the squad is 5 Marines or the rough riders mentioned earlier that's some serious overkill. The eldar missile launchers in that situation could be just as effective to produce the same result which is make the unit come in at a next to useless level of strength (or kill it outright).

In normal shooting your right. Just split fire so you can get the most bang for buck.

Spartacus wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

#2: I have several deep striking units, but I know he's going to want to kill one in particular (example, I have 1 nemesis dreadknight and 3 strike squads.) I would then use the fact that he must make his decision IMMEDIATELY after I drop the unit, not after I have declared some other action. I drop the cheaper units, he (should) pass them up in favor of the more expensive unit. After deep striking the last cheaper unit, I declare a psychic test/shooting attack, ending the movement phase. I do not drop the expensive unit he wants to kill (or else I drop him out of line of sight, if I have that opportunity.) If he did not choose to shoot the last cheap unit I dropped, he cannot go back and shoot them after I've declared another action.

Thats a very effective use of knowledge of the rules - knowledge is power guys!

While that is the correct interpretation (I think) I would make it clear to your opponent that he has to make a decision each time you drop a unit, otherwise they may be expecting to simply pick and choose at the end of your phase - avoids some bad situations in your games.

Question - does a unit using Auspex Scanners or Forewarned bypass the usual rules for shooting at a character who isn't the closest target? I don't have the rules in front of me, but from memory I think the rules talk about resolving a shooting attack as if it were the shooting phase, so the restriction would still be in place right?

For forewarned, the unit shoots as if it's the shooting phase (or words to that effect), so all the same rules apply.

 buddha wrote:
Get them in CC. As above good eldar players can make them very hard to shoot but there is next to no defense against CC.

Indeed, eldar in general don't have a great chaff to block and if they do commit to that build then they lose their speed.

Further, really anything the gets close to negate the -1 works. Flyers from almost any race work to dakka them to death.

Tyranids are in a good position to deal with them since so many units deepstrike and are cheap enough to lose that there are always more.

Fast CC units for chaos like heldrakes and warptime princes are great. Most anything slaanesh demons have the same fast CC use.

Marines struggle but a dakka stormraven can cure most ills.

Necrons have to rely on wraiths which thankfully are a near hard counte.

Orks should be able to swarm with things like stormboyz.

Hmm... I can see fast flying monsters (Heldrake, Harpy, etc) being somewhat useful, but let’s not forget that they have big bases that can be screened against, and if you only kill a couple of DRs then the rest can Feigned Retreat.

This puzzle is looking like a Smurfs firebase.

Spartacus wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

#2: I have several deep striking units, but I know he's going to want to kill one in particular (example, I have 1 nemesis dreadknight and 3 strike squads.) I would then use the fact that he must make his decision IMMEDIATELY after I drop the unit, not after I have declared some other action. I drop the cheaper units, he (should) pass them up in favor of the more expensive unit. After deep striking the last cheaper unit, I declare a psychic test/shooting attack, ending the movement phase. I do not drop the expensive unit he wants to kill (or else I drop him out of line of sight, if I have that opportunity.) If he did not choose to shoot the last cheap unit I dropped, he cannot go back and shoot them after I've declared another action.

Thats a very effective use of knowledge of the rules - knowledge is power guys!

While that is the correct interpretation (I think) I would make it clear to your opponent that he has to make a decision each time you drop a unit, otherwise they may be expecting to simply pick and choose at the end of your phase - avoids some bad situations in your games.

Question - does a unit using Auspex Scanners or Forewarned bypass the usual rules for shooting at a character who isn't the closest target? I don't have the rules in front of me, but from memory I think the rules talk about resolving a shooting attack as if it were the shooting phase, so the restriction would still be in place right?

That is also a very good spot. Any character that falls under Character Shooting Restrictions would be protected from Forewarned.