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I must ask - what things should you do to come across as a good sportsman on the table?

I am assuming you cover off the basics and address issues of personal hygiene etc.

I am at a loss sometimes because its more than just playing a 'balanced army' and smiling from time to time. For example the recent winner of the 40k GT Heat 1 played a highly competitive army (at the time before all the codexes released e.g. Eldar, etc.) i.e. razorback spam with Guilliman and he managed to deliver high sportsmanship scores.

Happy to hear opinions!

Is your opponent having fun?

Are you doing what you can, outside of throwing the game, to make sure he is?

That means different things to different people, though.

It comes down to behavior and how agreeable someone is in person. And this is something that goes beyond a list or army being run.

For example, someone with a weak list who sulks and grudgingly throws dice, refusing to engage with the opponent in any way is a poor sportsman.

Sportsmanship is not really something you can address by simply doing things. You're probably one of three things:

1) A genuine joy to game against, regardless of situation (read: You possess 'charisma')
2) A milque-toast ambivalent "void" of emotion in either direction. No one will remember you.
3) You're a douche.

While I suppose you can work on this, it's unlikely to change as your true self will always show in the end.

Also remember, a lot of players may knock your sportsmanship simply because they lost - and there's not a ton you can do about that.

That's why I find events that award sportsmanship scores / subjective scores as part of the scoring system very hard to work with.

I think as there are more youtube friendly celebrities entering the event environment, this is more skewed to their success...

A few thoughts

1) It's a competition in a game that involves list building. Building a list that wins when you play it is the intent. So yes power/cheese/beardy/whatever other random term lists are going to appear because people are playing to win. Sure you might lose on sportsmanship scores to some opponents, but honestly its daft to even suggest that players should use weaker lists.

2) Speed of play - you don't want to be dawdling your turns. Maintaining a good pace of play and paying attention to what is going on is important. This is NOT about rushing your turns, just about maintaining a sensible speed and not clearly having long pauses.

3) Pay attention to the gameplay - keep up with what is what and where so that you're not always having to ask.

4) Always double check and be prompt when asked about your army as well. Yep even if you're paying attention and your opponent is, there will still be questions. Be polite and prompt in answering them.
Might help to have markers in your codex in order to swiftly resolve issues and check info.

5) Manners. Shake their hand at the start finish, remain polite and happy whilst playing even if you're losing.

6) Bring all required rules/FAQ/errata/codex etc.... for reference.

7) Clear typed/written army list that is easy to read. Have a spare or two so your opponent can have one to reference during the match.

8) Call over TO if required at any point. This is an odd point because any contention that both players can't resolve should be a TO repair, but some will dock your sportmanship score because a TO came over. In truth this is about quick resolution rather than endless debate.



In general sportsmanship is a general term that diffrent people interpret differently. Also because its not a formal win/loss in the game many use it to have a "last word" against an opponent (oft one they lost too).

Let them go back and do their Psychic Phase, let them move stuff they forgot.

Roll your dice where they can clearly see them.

Never concede even if you're losing badly (you'll have to kill me).

Don't get salty when you're losing, take it like a man.

Also, when it comes to lists, there is a factor besides raw power that affects enjoyment - opponent interactivity.

Imagine a list that is a single model that has a special rule that says "upon deploying this model, roll a D6, which cannot be re-rolled for any reason. On a 4+, you immediately win. On a 1-3, you immediately lose.

That would be a perfectly balanced, but immensely un-fun list to play against, because you essentially don't get to play.

That's pretty much what playing against some lists in a competitive arena is like, and people who rely less on list check skew to provide them auto-wins and auto-losses are going to both do better in the tournament, AND pick up better sportsmanship scores. There's a reason that a lot of top table winning lists have left people scratching their heads and wondering how a relatively basic TAC list just composed of strong elements could have possibly beaten some of the hyperskew present in competitive play. It doesn't matter if you're the most highly skilled and smart hombre in the competitive 40k circuit, if you play the Lord Coinflip skewlist, your winrate is going to be 50%, and it's going to be entirely out of your control.

In my experience people will always rate a skew list lower than a TAC list, even if the latter kicked their butt far, far harder than the former.

@ the_scotsman

The funny thing is that at the recent GW GT heat, the winner of the heat took a very optimised list (for that time, clearly the IG, Eldar, etc. codexes have since been released) which was Guilliman plus razorback assault cannon spam and managed to get a number of favourite opponent awards.

The winner himself said that he took such an optimised list as he needed to maximise his chances of winning but managed to score well throughout. Am sure that his twitch/ youtube channel helps his recognition but that cant be the main reason that he scored well...

I think it's totally possible to be a good sportsman besides lists, but I'm in the minority on this I believe.

E.g. most people think I'm a good guy to play against, but if I tell them I'm bringing my superheavy tank company, they don't want to play it - not because I'm a bad opponent, but because it's boring to play against (not tactically challenging enough?).

Either way I'm looking for solutions to that very problem, and in the meantime playing my foot Sororitas.

EDIT:

Oh, the commentary about skew lists is already going on.

I wish there was a way to play a superheavy tank company without it being a skew list.

Nidzrule! wrote:
@ the_scotsman

The funny thing is that at the recent GW GT heat, the winner of the heat took a very optimised list (for that time, clearly the IG, Eldar, etc. codexes have since been released) which was Guilliman plus razorback assault cannon spam and managed to get a number of favourite opponent awards.

The winner himself said that he took such an optimised list as he needed to maximise his chances of winning but managed to score well throughout. Am sure that his twitch/ youtube channel helps his recognition but that cant be the main reason that he scored well...

Guilliman, Stormravens, Assault Cannon Razorbacks and usually either Scouts or Tacs or Conscripts is a highly optimized list, but it's not a skew list. You can kill elements of it. It's not highly dependent on first turn. it doesn't table you in a turn from 48" away, or deep strike 2000 points of genestealers in your face and say "if I succeed my charge rolls, I win, if I fail, I lose."

it's a highly powerful, highly optimized, take all comers list that can flexibly handle a variety of threats.

I'm not saying that's the only reason he took best sportsman, and I don't think there's some youtube channel conspiracy going on. But I am saying it is a common factor and it's not always just "you give someone good sportsman points when you win, take them away if they beat you."

Sure - I think you are saying that playing rock paper scissors lists / one trick ponies which mean that a bad matchup results in a poor game for the other opponent or a poor game for you naturally results in poorer sportsmanship scores because one party never feels "part" of the game / or interacting.

Whereas more balanced lists where there is the chance of an outplay gives the feeling of more interactivity and therefore a better game experience for both sides, no matter the outcome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said the Guilliman plus assback lists - while it wont table you turn 1, does put a dent in the enemy if they get a good alpha strike off.

By the way, not saying that youtubing is the main reason for the winner getting good sports scores - I am trying to understand what he did!

Nidzrule! wrote:
Sure - I think you are saying that playing rock paper scissors lists / one trick ponies which mean that a bad matchup results in a poor game for the other opponent or a poor game for you naturally results in poorer sportsmanship scores because one party never feels "part" of the game / or interacting.

Whereas more balanced lists where there is the chance of an outplay gives the feeling of more interactivity and therefore a better game experience for both sides, no matter the outcome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said the Guilliman plus assback lists - while it wont table you turn 1, does put a dent in the enemy if they get a good alpha strike off.

By the way, not saying that youtubing is the main reason for the winner getting good sports scores - I am trying to understand what he did!

Do you think there is a way to make skew lists (i.e. IG Armoured Company, Baneblade company [in my case], or whathaveyou) fun to play against other than "not play them?"

I'd love to play my superheavy companies fairly routinely, but getting games above 2k is rare, and at 2k it becomes a skew list simply by virtue of existing, which is upsetting.

I think for a competition its daft to try and require players to build "fun weaker" lists as such unless the competition is reward heavily for things other than winning.

Consider you'd not ask a chess master to compete in chess with less pawns; or magic the gathering players to use weaker decks in general tournament.


In a casual or local club tournament the dyanmic can be different and can allow for this to some extent; in a general all-comers tournament I personally don't think its right.

Imagine a list that is a single model that has a special rule that says "upon deploying this model, roll a D6, which cannot be re-rolled for any reason. On a 4+, you immediately win. On a 1-3, you immediately lose.

That would be a perfectly balanced, but immensely un-fun list to play against, because you essentially don't get to play.

I 100% know that you're using an extreme example; but at the same time if GW allowed the formal rules to have a unit like that in the game then any player that took that unit is playing 100% fairly. If the tournament organisers feel that its seriously unbalanced they can introduce house-rules (before the event) to curb such specific units/lists appearing (at which point its open debate as to if its fair or not). But otherwise if the rules allow it then its "legal" in game and players shouldn't be penalised for using legal combinations.

I'll put in my thoughts here and use a recent example. I played against a guy that brought everything with him, had all of the rules and books for his models. Post-it notes in the Codex to quickly show me that yes, it is really that.

Being engaged in the game is top priority too, I appreciate little in-universe jokes and comments. "Woah that Smite blew his head off" or something like that.

Bring everything with you, be interested, know what you're talking about. A handshake at the end and some help packing up goes a long way.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Nidzrule! wrote:
Sure - I think you are saying that playing rock paper scissors lists / one trick ponies which mean that a bad matchup results in a poor game for the other opponent or a poor game for you naturally results in poorer sportsmanship scores because one party never feels "part" of the game / or interacting.

Whereas more balanced lists where there is the chance of an outplay gives the feeling of more interactivity and therefore a better game experience for both sides, no matter the outcome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said the Guilliman plus assback lists - while it wont table you turn 1, does put a dent in the enemy if they get a good alpha strike off.

By the way, not saying that youtubing is the main reason for the winner getting good sports scores - I am trying to understand what he did!

Do you think there is a way to make skew lists (i.e. IG Armoured Company, Baneblade company [in my case], or whathaveyou) fun to play against other than "not play them?"

I'd love to play my superheavy companies fairly routinely, but getting games above 2k is rare, and at 2k it becomes a skew list simply by virtue of existing, which is upsetting.

It depends on how committed you are and how much you are willing to bend your theme a bit. My example was obviously someone wanting to play an all-genestealer army (taking nothing but Purestrains and Patriarchs and Cult Ambushing them in). In theory, any change beyond Patriarchs and Purestrains is, to him, me saying "just don't play them." Obviously you could just walk the genestealers at someone, but then you'd just lose every game and you still wouldn't have any added player agency, just more auto-loses than auto-wins.

The real answer is very simple, it just has to be restated again and again because people who like their skew lists tend to be highly resistant to breaking up their theme - you have to make it a TAC list. If you've got all baneblades, and your opponent took all IG lascannon teams against you, or all Tau fusion suits, you would 100% always lose. Wouldn't even have to be that extreme, any anti armor skew, you'd be done. Reduce the fraction of your list dedicated to just baneblades just enough that you could fight that fight, and you'd have yourself a reasonable TAC list.

Every list has some skew. The Guilliman Assback list mentioned absolutely does - it's got armor skew, with usually only 200-300 points in non-guilliman infantry. But usually (because these people are trying to win tournaments) it's just enough that in the event of an opponent with anti-armor skew, they can fight back with their infantry elements.

It all depends on the rigidity of your theme, and how willing you are to be flexible within the definition. An All-Genestealer All The Time If you Make Me Take Not Genestealer Units You Are Taking Away My Theme list is always going to be super super skew, and is going to definitely be a less interactive experience than, say, a tyranid Vanguard Organism list, or a genestealer-heavy cult list that also has a few tanks and a few neophytes and whatnot.

IG armored company? Super easy to make into an interactive TAC list, add a couple chimera-borne obsec infantry squads, a few scout sentinels, and suddenly you've solved a lot of your auto-lose matchups while also not having as much bonkers turn 1 down-range firepower reducing your auto-wins. Only baneblades? You're going to have a tough time.

But you've heard this. You ask the same questions every time this comes up, and you interpret the answer as "just don't play your theme" every time.

I think just generally being agreeable is a big thing. Like, it's okay to acknowledge both good and bad things that happen, but don't take them personally or perseverate on one or two events.

Find something about the other player to compliment - painting, their shoes, the list, anything. It really does set a good tone for the game. You're both there because you share interests, revel in it!

Keep the pace of the game up - don't dawdle, nitpick, distract, hem and haw, etc.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Nidzrule! wrote:
Sure - I think you are saying that playing rock paper scissors lists / one trick ponies which mean that a bad matchup results in a poor game for the other opponent or a poor game for you naturally results in poorer sportsmanship scores because one party never feels "part" of the game / or interacting.

Whereas more balanced lists where there is the chance of an outplay gives the feeling of more interactivity and therefore a better game experience for both sides, no matter the outcome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said the Guilliman plus assback lists - while it wont table you turn 1, does put a dent in the enemy if they get a good alpha strike off.

By the way, not saying that youtubing is the main reason for the winner getting good sports scores - I am trying to understand what he did!

Do you think there is a way to make skew lists (i.e. IG Armoured Company, Baneblade company [in my case], or whathaveyou) fun to play against other than "not play them?"

I'd love to play my superheavy companies fairly routinely, but getting games above 2k is rare, and at 2k it becomes a skew list simply by virtue of existing, which is upsetting.

It depends on how committed you are and how much you are willing to bend your theme a bit. My example was obviously someone wanting to play an all-genestealer army (taking nothing but Purestrains and Patriarchs and Cult Ambushing them in). In theory, any change beyond Patriarchs and Purestrains is, to him, me saying "just don't play them." Obviously you could just walk the genestealers at someone, but then you'd just lose every game and you still wouldn't have any added player agency, just more auto-loses than auto-wins.

The real answer is very simple, it just has to be restated again and again because people who like their skew lists tend to be highly resistant to breaking up their theme - you have to make it a TAC list. If you've got all baneblades, and your opponent took all IG lascannon teams against you, or all Tau fusion suits, you would 100% always lose. Wouldn't even have to be that extreme, any anti armor skew, you'd be done. Reduce the fraction of your list dedicated to just baneblades just enough that you could fight that fight, and you'd have yourself a reasonable TAC list.

Every list has some skew. The Guilliman Assback list mentioned absolutely does - it's got armor skew, with usually only 200-300 points in non-guilliman infantry. But usually (because these people are trying to win tournaments) it's just enough that in the event of an opponent with anti-armor skew, they can fight back with their infantry elements.

It all depends on the rigidity of your theme, and how willing you are to be flexible within the definition. An All-Genestealer All The Time If you Make Me Take Not Genestealer Units You Are Taking Away My Theme list is always going to be super super skew, and is going to definitely be a less interactive experience than, say, a tyranid Vanguard Organism list, or a genestealer-heavy cult list that also has a few tanks and a few neophytes and whatnot.

IG armored company? Super easy to make into an interactive TAC list, add a couple chimera-borne obsec infantry squads, a few scout sentinels, and suddenly you've solved a lot of your auto-lose matchups while also not having as much bonkers turn 1 down-range firepower reducing your auto-wins. Only baneblades? You're going to have a tough time.

But you've heard this. You ask the same questions every time this comes up, and you interpret the answer as "just don't play your theme" every time.

So your answer is ... what exactly?

What does be more flexible mean? After Chapter Approved, I've got 416 points to play with if I want to run a Baneblade company. That 416 points can be anything - Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Skitarii, Adepta Sororitas, Inquisition, Sisters of Silence, Assassins, whatever! I don't really care.

My theme is superheavy tank companies, that's true. And that means 3 tanks, that's also true.

But 2 tanks, or 1 tank, isn't a "superheavy tank company" but is rather "a single or pair of vehicles having gone to support something else" which is not the theme I want.

So is there a way to use 416 points to make a skewy list less skewy? I've considered spending that 416 on a battalion of Imperial Guard, but I think it's still "skew" in the strictest sense. Any thoughts beyond "your theme is bad, and the fact that you consider it your theme and don't want to break it is uncompromising"?

The following things affect your opponents experience, that may not already be obvious.

1. Body Language, and facial expressions.
2. Tone of voice.
3. Word choice.

Consider:
You roll a 6. Your opponent is slouching dejectedly, with an expression of woe, and sharply says, "Wow. Nice Shot."

Or, how about:
You roll a 6. Your opponent throws his head back and laughs; with a smile, he gives you a thumbs up and says, "Wow, nice shot!"

Is there a difference to you?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Nidzrule! wrote:
Sure - I think you are saying that playing rock paper scissors lists / one trick ponies which mean that a bad matchup results in a poor game for the other opponent or a poor game for you naturally results in poorer sportsmanship scores because one party never feels "part" of the game / or interacting.

Whereas more balanced lists where there is the chance of an outplay gives the feeling of more interactivity and therefore a better game experience for both sides, no matter the outcome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said the Guilliman plus assback lists - while it wont table you turn 1, does put a dent in the enemy if they get a good alpha strike off.

By the way, not saying that youtubing is the main reason for the winner getting good sports scores - I am trying to understand what he did!

Do you think there is a way to make skew lists (i.e. IG Armoured Company, Baneblade company [in my case], or whathaveyou) fun to play against other than "not play them?"

I'd love to play my superheavy companies fairly routinely, but getting games above 2k is rare, and at 2k it becomes a skew list simply by virtue of existing, which is upsetting.

It depends on how committed you are and how much you are willing to bend your theme a bit. My example was obviously someone wanting to play an all-genestealer army (taking nothing but Purestrains and Patriarchs and Cult Ambushing them in). In theory, any change beyond Patriarchs and Purestrains is, to him, me saying "just don't play them." Obviously you could just walk the genestealers at someone, but then you'd just lose every game and you still wouldn't have any added player agency, just more auto-loses than auto-wins.

The real answer is very simple, it just has to be restated again and again because people who like their skew lists tend to be highly resistant to breaking up their theme - you have to make it a TAC list. If you've got all baneblades, and your opponent took all IG lascannon teams against you, or all Tau fusion suits, you would 100% always lose. Wouldn't even have to be that extreme, any anti armor skew, you'd be done. Reduce the fraction of your list dedicated to just baneblades just enough that you could fight that fight, and you'd have yourself a reasonable TAC list.

Every list has some skew. The Guilliman Assback list mentioned absolutely does - it's got armor skew, with usually only 200-300 points in non-guilliman infantry. But usually (because these people are trying to win tournaments) it's just enough that in the event of an opponent with anti-armor skew, they can fight back with their infantry elements.

It all depends on the rigidity of your theme, and how willing you are to be flexible within the definition. An All-Genestealer All The Time If you Make Me Take Not Genestealer Units You Are Taking Away My Theme list is always going to be super super skew, and is going to definitely be a less interactive experience than, say, a tyranid Vanguard Organism list, or a genestealer-heavy cult list that also has a few tanks and a few neophytes and whatnot.

IG armored company? Super easy to make into an interactive TAC list, add a couple chimera-borne obsec infantry squads, a few scout sentinels, and suddenly you've solved a lot of your auto-lose matchups while also not having as much bonkers turn 1 down-range firepower reducing your auto-wins. Only baneblades? You're going to have a tough time.

But you've heard this. You ask the same questions every time this comes up, and you interpret the answer as "just don't play your theme" every time.

So your answer is ... what exactly?

What does be more flexible mean? After Chapter Approved, I've got 416 points to play with if I want to run a Baneblade company. That 416 points can be anything - Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Skitarii, Adepta Sororitas, Inquisition, Sisters of Silence, Assassins, whatever! I don't really care.

My theme is superheavy tank companies, that's true. And that means 3 tanks, that's also true.

But 2 tanks, or 1 tank, isn't a "superheavy tank company" but is rather "a single or pair of vehicles having gone to support something else" which is not the theme I want.

So is there a way to use 416 points to make a skewy list less skewy? I've considered spending that 416 on a battalion of Imperial Guard, but I think it's still "skew" in the strictest sense. Any thoughts beyond "your theme is bad, and the fact that you consider it your theme and don't want to break it is uncompromising"?

Replace "superheavy tanks" with literally anything else.

My Alpha Legion Khorne Bezerker army is a fluffy Alpha Legion Khorne Bezerker army, and that means 8 units of 8 khorne bezerkers in a fluff-adherent skullmurderhost. I have 400 points left since I only play 1500 point games with my Skullmurderhost, so what can I spend those on to not make my list a skew list?

The answer is, and has been given to you many, many times: No, there is no way to make 3 Baneblades in a 2000 point list NOT a skew list. There is no physical way to do it. Just like you can't make an Imperial Knight list in 1000 points that isn't a skew list if you want more than 1 knight (because it's not a knight list if it's just one knight!) You have created a box for yourself that is small enough that you cannot make a TAC list out of it. You either need to get a bigger box (play higher points values) or change the box (not 3 baneblades minimum). Those are your options if you are actually invested in making your list not a skew list. You could just be comfortable with the fact that you play a skew list - plenty of people do! I've seen all-dread lists, all bike lists, all drop pod lists, all infantry lists, you name it, it's a common thing for people to do in 40k.

Given that you come onto nearly every thread that tangentially mentions skew lists to ask the same leading questions so you can act defensive about your army setup, I feel like you aren't comfortable with accepting that you play a skew list. I don't know man. I don't get it. Why are you so desperate to get reassurance from random internet people that your army is not a skew list?

Because I don't want it to be a skew list, and I want it to be fun for my opponent as much as me.

Maybe I'm hoping someone will come along with some brilliant solution that can fix it - that's my secret hope.

That or... I dunno. I just want the list to be as fun for my opponents, so I can play it. I don't care if it wins, but I do care if it's thematic.

I'd play higher points - in fact, I'll ask for that this weekend at the club if we're not doing the campaign. Hopefully I can get a bunch of 2500 pt games or even 3k point games going, but people just hate it for some reason, possibly because they feel there's not enough space on the board or they don't own enough models.

I guess that not all Super-Heavy Tank Companies will fight at full strength all of the time. Support assets as valuable as Baneblades would be in high demand by friendly forces and likely parcelled out as necessary to support operations. Therefore there's nothing stopping 2 Baneblades from a company being present in a battle while the 3rd tank is supporting a different unit in a different engagement.

That's like saying I cant take an IG Infantry Platoon unless it's the full 6 (?) Infantry Squads plus Command Squad. Or that Russes must always appear in squadrons of 3

To be a general good sport, I'd say be well humoured about the game, don't gloat when it's going your way or sulk when it's going against you.

If you want to make an extra effort, congratulate your opponent on killing your units (especially through a well planned strategy) and accept where your own units might have come up lucky.

If you do it right it's possible to curb stomp an opponent whilst leaving them feeling they are still a good general and stand a chance next time/want to play you again.

 Marmatag wrote:
The following things affect your opponents experience, that may not already be obvious.

1. Body Language, and facial expressions.
2. Tone of voice.
3. Word choice.

Consider:
You roll a 6. Your opponent is slouching dejectedly, with an expression of woe, and sharply says, "Wow. Nice Shot."

Or, how about:
You roll a 6. Your opponent throws his head back and laughs; with a smile, he gives you a thumbs up and says, "Wow, nice shot!"

Is there a difference to you?

explained better than I could have. Agree whole heartily

First and foremost, have fun with the game regardless of how it's going. Play a list you enjoy playing. Try to look on the bright side and have a good time even if you're getting stomped. Don't take yourself too seriously. Laugh at yourself when you make a boneheaded move. Remember that it's a game. If you aren't having a good time, it tends to rub off on people around you. If you're enjoying yourself, it's easier to engage with the opponent and help them have fun too.

Be considerate of your opponent. Have your list easily readable by them. Stick to WYSIWYG as much as possible and point out anything that's tough to make out before the game. Know your list and your rules as well as you can, and keep a reference handy for your opponent. Try to know what you can about your opponent's units and rules beforehand so you don't have to constantly bug them and definitely don't get super argumentative, especially if you're wrong. Be generous in letting your opponent take back minor mistakes, but don't insist on getting the same in return. If they offer, take back a minor mistake of your own, but don't over do it. The goal is to make the nuts and bolts mechanics as invisible and seamless as possible so you can both focus on the game part of playing the game.

Engage with your opponent. Greet them with a handshake and an introduction. If you see something they did or are doing that's cool, point it out and complement them. Could be a great paint job or conversion, a good play that caught you by surprise, or a lucky unlikely roll. Don't make something up just to give a compliment, be genuine. Commiserate a bit when they have a bad break. You'll also need to read your opponent a bit and get a feel for how they'll take something. Laugh with them, not at them. Pay attention and listen to what they have to say. Wish them luck in their future games. If you have some worthwhile advice (on tactics, painting, anything) and they seem receptive, share it.

Think about what you'd want your opponent to do if you were in their shoes. Remember the games you've played where you had the most fun. Try to emulate those opponents who you most enjoyed playing against, and avoid doing those things that annoyed you.

Nidzrule! wrote:
I must ask - what things should you do to come across as a good sportsman on the table?

I am assuming you cover off the basics and address issues of personal hygiene etc.

I am at a loss sometimes because its more than just playing a 'balanced army' and smiling from time to time. For example the recent winner of the 40k GT Heat 1 played a highly competitive army (at the time before all the codexes released e.g. Eldar, etc.) i.e. razorback spam with Guilliman and he managed to deliver high sportsmanship scores.

Happy to hear opinions!

It not easy. Try to be generous and social if your opponent is getting a bit emotional about the game, sometimes we all have trouble despite the best of intentions. "Man those are some tough dice rolls," sorta of statements can help ease the pain of your dudes getting wrecked. Its all about being classy and sympathetic. If your friend is having a tough time, suggest a quick break for a snack or something. It can really help a lot. Commisserate on what went wrong and bad dice, and try to make helpful suggestions about what happened. If you're winning really well, don't request "take backs" or "gamer inches" or anything like that. You're already winning so don't punch it home.

Just ensure you and your opponent enjoy there time in the game, Pretty much it.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


Because I don't want it to be a skew list, and I want it to be fun for my opponent as much as me.

But it is a skew list, regardless of what you want. That's just the way it is.

As far as the topic goes, just try not to be a douche and you should be fine. At a tournament nobody should base sportsmanship scoring on your list. The fact some people will is one of my issues with sportsmanship scoring in general. I'd also say communication is important. Make sure opponents know what everything is and des and what dice rolls are for. I generally announce the target number required for each roll before rolling dice, which can help avoid confusion after the fact, that can be misconstrued as cheating.

In a non-tournament environment things get a little trickier. You need to consider the group you're playing with and what they're looking for so it's difficult to say for sure what you need to do. Some groups might not expect hardcore tournament lists every week, for example, and you might be seen as a non-sporting opponent if that's all you bring. OTOH, if all you bring is soft fluff-bunny lists that might also be a problem. Sportsmanship is more about social interactions than anything else so you'll need to use some judgement. A checklist approach will only get you so far.

The most important thing is to lose. Play a bad list, make poor decisions, and always praise your opponent for being awesome. Sure, all those common sense sportsmanship things will get you a good reputation with some players, but to get maximum sportsmanship scores you need to appease the "casual at all costs" crowd, and the spiteful TFGs who will zero you if you win.

Welcome to Earth Nidzrulebot2000. We humans behave in peculiar ways. One of which is playing or competing in a game or sport whilst trying hard, but not pissing off or insulting the other person.

I hope your continued observation of human behavior goes well and you are able to one day properly mimic it "by doing things"