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 Marmatag wrote:
You're in for an uphill battle in this edition too, sorry buddy.

I would go with 2 assault cannon storm ravens. You can put them out of range of the reapers, so if your opponent goes first, you won't get shot.

Then, fly across the board and drop 48 hurricane bolter, 24 assault cannon, 4x melta, and 4x stormstrike missiles in his face. Deep strike a chapter master between the two ravens for rerolls, and he can't target him because he's not the closest model even with their cheeseball stratagem.

You will annihilate the reapers with this combo. It's expensive but worth it.

If Eldar just take Dark Reapers, Stormraven is ok. However, Eldar also got Extreme good flyer which are extreme good at taking out opponent flyer, sooo, I think those two Stormraven might not survive the 1st turn...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

 buddha wrote:
I certainly wouldn't deepstrike anything primaris since their main mode of fire is 2 DMG.

My approach is artillery which means FW. Quad launchers are cheap enough at 85pts which combined with a scorpius is enough so long as I get good LoS blocking.

Op is a no go on FW.

gotta think inside the box.

i almost want to say take more reivers in min squads and try and lock them into combat. sure you may lose one unit to intercept but they are pretty cheap. or some other cheap DS thing.

If no forgeworld, best bet is either
1: Take 3 TFC, park near Guilliman, stay at around 57" away from them, then pick up total of 4 Dark Reapers a turn. and hope not get pucked up by other Eldar units.

2: Take MSU deep strike squads that can shoot and charge well, Vanguard is good for this. DS them together And hope Eldar is not bubble warp well And you make all those 9" charge.

3: Take 5-6 Rhinos, each full of MSU squads with good shooting / choppy ability. Rush those Eldar. According to mathhammer, the probability for 6 Dark Reapers to take out one Rhino is "only" 47%, so Hope the Eldar player rolls low and there will be someone able to reach their line.

Watch out for the reapers to move from behind los terrain...shoot then use fire and fade stratagem to jump inside a wave serpent for some added safety.

They should die, so the Reapers are denied viable targets.

It really depends on a lot of factors. If your opponent is using Wave Serpents to protect them, there's not much that your anti-infantry weapons can do as Wave Serpents are tough as nails. 10 Dark Reapers jumping out of a Wave Serpent, shooting, then jumping back in during the same turn thanks to that stratagem they have is mean. However, they'd also not be sitting around and fending off your Deep Strikers with Forewarned, and Wave Serpents do eat up a decent amount of points. To the person suggesting Inceptors, you'd better pray your opponent isn't sitting a Farseer next to the Reapers when you drop your Inceptors in, because the Reapers will toast them before they can shoot thanks to Forewarned.

Just plan around how your opponent is protecting them would be my best suggestion. Between Alaitoc and cover they are surprisingly hard to shift despite being T3 W1, but dedicated firepower from anything decent will put them down provided you can get the positioning right. If you manage to charge them, charge them with the intent to kill as otherwise they'll just retreat and use the "Fall Back but can still shoot/charge" stratagem. Reapers are probably the best Eldar unit and you can bet that any good opponent will invest in keeping them as safe and relevant for the duration of the game as possible. If you manage to get around them, you've already got a big advantage.

Also, keep in mind that Dark Reapers have a 48" range, and the Exarch has a 36" range. Plan accordingly when you deploy.

Caederes wrote:


Also, keep in mind that Dark Reapers have a 48" range, and the Exarch has a 36" range. Plan accordingly when you deploy.

Then there is basically nowhere safe on the board if you want to outshoot them. Looks like it is better to rush them with fast moving tough units as quick as possible. Such as Rhino with Tactical Marines?

Expect reaper spam (30+) to be top table at LVO. Calling it here.

Caederes wrote:
It really depends on a lot of factors. If your opponent is using Wave Serpents to protect them, there's not much that your anti-infantry weapons can do as Wave Serpents are tough as nails. 10 Dark Reapers jumping out of a Wave Serpent, shooting, then jumping back in during the same turn thanks to that stratagem they have is mean. However, they'd also not be sitting around and fending off your Deep Strikers with Forewarned, and Wave Serpents do eat up a decent amount of points. To the person suggesting Inceptors, you'd better pray your opponent isn't sitting a Farseer next to the Reapers when you drop your Inceptors in, because the Reapers will toast them before they can shoot thanks to Forewarned.

Just plan around how your opponent is protecting them would be my best suggestion. Between Alaitoc and cover they are surprisingly hard to shift despite being T3 W1, but dedicated firepower from anything decent will put them down provided you can get the positioning right. If you manage to charge them, charge them with the intent to kill as otherwise they'll just retreat and use the "Fall Back but can still shoot/charge" stratagem. Reapers are probably the best Eldar unit and you can bet that any good opponent will invest in keeping them as safe and relevant for the duration of the game as possible. If you manage to get around them, you've already got a big advantage.

Also, keep in mind that Dark Reapers have a 48" range, and the Exarch has a 36" range. Plan accordingly when you deploy.

A couple of clarification.

Reapers cannot disembark and then embark into a vehicle in the same turn; against the rules.

The Exarch may have a 36" range weapon. Or could have the same range weapon as other Dark Reapers. It is common to see the Tempest Launcher on an Exarch, but not guaranteed.

You definitely need to be aware of a Farseer within 6" of Dark Reapers and remaining CP the Eldar player has. This can really make or break a game plan. But, the Dark Reapers need LoS to the newly arrived unit, which is key to use the strategem.

@Sarigar

The Eldar have a strategem that allows them to disembark, shoot, then re-embark in the same turn for 1CP. Pretty sure that is what Caederes was referring to.

I'm starting to think the only real counter is Guilliman and all the Whirlwinds/Thundercannons you can stack around him in a far corner of the map with total LOS blocking, and hope for the best, lol.

Gwarok wrote:
@Sarigar

The Eldar have a strategem that allows them to disembark, shoot, then re-embark in the same turn for 1CP. Pretty sure that is what Caederes was referring to.

I'm starting to think the only real counter is Guilliman and all the Whirlwinds/Thundercannons you can stack around him in a far corner of the map with total LOS blocking, and hope for the best, lol.

No, the stratagem does not allow this.

 Marmatag wrote:
Then, fly across the board and drop 48 hurricane bolter, 24 assault cannon, 4x melta, and 4x stormstrike missiles in his face. Deep strike a chapter master between the two ravens for rerolls, and he can't target him because he's not the closest model even with their cheeseball stratagem.

You will annihilate the reapers with this combo. It's expensive but worth it.

Well, going all mathhammer on it, that combo, assuming normal 3+ to Hit rolls, that will kill 18 Dark Reapers(486pts worth) using 622pts of Storm Ravens, which I would say are then going to take a pounding the next round as Eldar lists are pretty good at taking out armored units. Yes, dropping a Master in there would increase things noticeably, but is likely to cost at least another 150pts or so to do it. I agree it is likely one of the most effective methods for dealing with this particular scenario, but yikes, doesn't really feel like it.

Also consider they are at there most brutal in a Ynnari list with Yvraine casting word of the phoenix on them for double shooting. Unfortunately Ynnari are completely nerfed into the ground and most competitive players agree that playing base alaitoc is a no-brainer. So if you want the Yvraine combo you'll need, at the very least, to run a patrol with her, the reapers, and one troop choice. It's not a heavy tax, but it's still a pain.

 buddha wrote:
Expect reaper spam (30+) to be top table at LVO. Calling it here.

I have no doubt someone will try this. But I don't expect it to place after it gets tabled by a few Nid lists.

Storm ravens are nice but what to do when your opponent places reapers in a bastion (be happy he wasted 190 points not on reapers or another hemlock)?

2x 9 reapers w/ farseer + some other HQ in a 20 capacity fortification w/ toughness 9 and 20 wounds 10 firing points

Cost 190 points but all but guarantees those reapers will get shots off (if you have anti-tank to deal with that you don't have anti infantry to deal with the reapers).

Webway the other unit of 9 so they don't show up until they want your stormravens need to survive a round of reaper shooting (they won't) and can only hit 9 of the reapers (10 inside the bastion still, 2x9 should be more than 24" apart since one is webwaying in)

I feel like I'm too doom and gloom. There's a way to beat them (loaded dice? cheating?).

Only answer I can come up with is to ally in some IG no LOS artillery (manticores/wyvens/morters >>>>>>>whirlwinds/thunderfires) and out range them to bits but then you'd probably just be better off playing all guard because I don't think you gain much of anything by using that much guard artillery (6-700 points) with any SM units.

 Primark G wrote:
Inceptors will root them out due to high rate of fire and can follow up with charge.

Inceptors will get rocked by the stratagem. You would need at least 2 squads since 1 will die automatically upon arrival.

peteralmo wrote:
Also consider they are at there most brutal in a Ynnari list with Yvraine casting word of the phoenix on them for double shooting. Unfortunately Ynnari are completely nerfed into the ground and most competitive players agree that playing base alaitoc is a no-brainer. So if you want the Yvraine combo you'll need, at the very least, to run a patrol with her, the reapers, and one troop choice. It's not a heavy tax, but it's still a pain.

Its a pain but seems to be the most competitive option. All but one eldar players at the war head triad III thought it was the best option. And you need to win qualifying tournaments to be invited to the war head triad. Dark reapers, shining spears Yvraine and a throw away troop choice seems to be the best ynnari addition. http://www.gowarhead.com/2017/11/war-head-triad-iii-coverage.html

Devastator squads in cover buffed by Rowboat or Azrael or something similar. Inceptors are okay with the points reduction, but I would not have any faith in them against reaper spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, bring som minimum sized scout-squads with a heavy bolter. They are cheap, fairly durable in cover, and they can get close enough to hit the reapers.

Gwarok wrote:
@Sarigar

The Eldar have a strategem that allows them to disembark, shoot, then re-embark in the same turn for 1CP. Pretty sure that is what Caederes was referring to.

I'm starting to think the only real counter is Guilliman and all the Whirlwinds/Thundercannons you can stack around him in a far corner of the map with total LOS blocking, and hope for the best, lol.

I am aware of the strategems and it does not allow for what he describes. One can't disemabark and the embark into a vehicle in the same turn as it is clearly against the rules. One can, for example, enter play via Webway Strike, shoot, then play Fire and Fade to embark into a vehicle. That is one way Eldar players can protect Dark Reapers. Generally, the Reapers will get two turns of fire.

To be honest the stratagem being used to jump back into transports on the same turn they jump out passed my mind with the restriction I was very tired when I wrote that post. Regardless, you can do any number of other shenanigans to protect them; the point being that they are not easy to kill at all if your opponent invests in defending them as Eldar have some shockingly good tricks up their sleeves for that purpose.

I know how they work, you don't need to clarify to me that the Exarch "might" have a 36" range. We're having a discussion about Dark Reapers in a competitive context, and in a competitive context, Tempest Launchers are the go-to weapons for Exarchs. Again, the main point is that the range of the unit in general is 48" thus out-ranging a lot of the "solutions" offered in this thread so far, with the Exarch being the only possible odd duck out.

Also, seeing as the post I was replying to was talking about using Deep Striking shooting units to deal with Dark Reapers and that would require the vast majority of said units to be in line of sight to shoot said Dark Reapers...To repeat myself for the last time, the point is that you can't just rely on Deep Strikers like Inceptors to deal with Dark Reapers and must pay attention to their positioning, potentially giving up a turn of shooting just to keep the reinforcing unit alive to shoot on the next turn, or use multiple units to get the job done and accept your losses.

I appreciate the clarifications though. Ultimately we're all here to help each other and it's best that everyone has the most accurate information available to them so they can properly prepare for potential threats.

 Sarigar wrote:

Gwarok wrote:
@Sarigar

The Eldar have a strategem that allows them to disembark, shoot, then re-embark in the same turn for 1CP. Pretty sure that is what Caederes was referring to.

I'm starting to think the only real counter is Guilliman and all the Whirlwinds/Thundercannons you can stack around him in a far corner of the map with total LOS blocking, and hope for the best, lol.

I am aware of the strategems and it does not allow for what he describes. One can't disemabark and the embark into a vehicle in the same turn as it is clearly against the rules. One can, for example, enter play via Webway Strike, shoot, then play Fire and Fade to embark into a vehicle. That is one way Eldar players can protect Dark Reapers. Generally, the Reapers will get two turns of fire.

You cannot embark into a vehicle in the shooting phase. The phrase as if they were in the movement phase doesn't matter. It's the shooting phase when you play fire and fade, not the movement phase.

p5freak wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:

Gwarok wrote:
@Sarigar

The Eldar have a strategem that allows them to disembark, shoot, then re-embark in the same turn for 1CP. Pretty sure that is what Caederes was referring to.

I'm starting to think the only real counter is Guilliman and all the Whirlwinds/Thundercannons you can stack around him in a far corner of the map with total LOS blocking, and hope for the best, lol.

I am aware of the strategems and it does not allow for what he describes. One can't disemabark and the embark into a vehicle in the same turn as it is clearly against the rules. One can, for example, enter play via Webway Strike, shoot, then play Fire and Fade to embark into a vehicle. That is one way Eldar players can protect Dark Reapers. Generally, the Reapers will get two turns of fire.

You cannot embark into a vehicle in the shooting phase. The phrase as if they were in the movement phase doesn't matter. It's the shooting phase when you play fire and fade, not the movement phase.

Embark states "If all models in a unit end their move within 3" of a friendly transport, they can embark within it." There is no indication this must occur in the movement phase and these rules are not contained within the phase 1, movement rules. Seems extremely clear this allowed. The only exception I find is that a unit cannot both embark and disembark in the same turn.

 Sarigar wrote:

Embark states "If all models in a unit end their move within 3" of a friendly transport, they can embark within it." There is no indication this must occur in the movement phase and these rules are not contained within the phase 1, movement rules. Seems extremely clear this allowed. The only exception I find is that a unit cannot both embark and disembark in the same turn.

From the stepping into a new edition of warhammer 40k :

Q: Can I embark within a transport at any time other than in the Movement phase, such as following a consolidate move that takes a unit within 3" of a transport? A: No. You may only embark within or disembark a transport in the Movement phase, unless a rule or ability explicitly says otherwise.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_stepping_into_a_new_edition_en.pdf

p5freak wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:

Embark states "If all models in a unit end their move within 3" of a friendly transport, they can embark within it." There is no indication this must occur in the movement phase and these rules are not contained within the phase 1, movement rules. Seems extremely clear this allowed. The only exception I find is that a unit cannot both embark and disembark in the same turn.

From the stepping into a new edition of warhammer 40k :

Q: Can I embark within a transport at any time other than in the Movement phase, such as following a consolidate move that takes a unit within 3" of a transport? A: No. You may only embark within or disembark a transport in the Movement phase, unless a rule or ability explicitly says otherwise.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_stepping_into_a_new_edition_en.pdf

Thank you for this. It makes it very clear with the FAQ.

Well. A good counter now is a Blood Angels Librarian with the Relic Jump Pack. Deep Strike them just out of 12. Use Wings of Sanguinius to move 12" in the Psychic Phase, and be 1" away from them. Use the power that gives the Librarian +D3 Attacks, the Strategem that gives him +D3 attacks and charge in. The Relic Angel's Wing means they can't fire Overwatch on him.

Now you have a Librarian throwing 3+2D3 AP-3 attacks that wound on 2+ with The Red Thirst and a Force Sword... I think that'll kill them pretty dead. Hope you play Blood Angels haha.


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Shoot, if your feeling REALLY gutsy you can also Deep Strike in Blood Angels Vanguard vets just out of 12" or line of sight, and use the Strategem that gives them a 3D6 charge range if they are equipped with Jump Packs when they Deep Strike in and pray for high rolls. You can also use a CP to reroll one of the three dice to make your odds of getting in even better.

Yeah, it is pretty CP intensive, but if your running a double Battalion Detachment army it shouldn't be a problem. Mine has done fairly well me pre-Codex, and the Blood Angels Codex looks to make it even better.

I haven't been on the receiving side of Reapers yet this edition, but what usually kills my reapers the quickest are
1. heavy bolters
2. assault cannons
3. storm bolters
4. bolters

If they bring large squads then focus fire them to kill 5-6 guys and make them take a morale test. You don't necessarily have to kill the whole squad in one go because once you lower the model number of the unit, the psychic powers used on them lose their effectiveness and they might even lose a couple more to morale

Thunderfire cannons or any weapon that doesn't need line of sight really messes with how reapers work too.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Well. A good counter now is a Blood Angels Librarian with the Relic Jump Pack. Deep Strike them just out of 12. Use Wings of Sanguinius to move 12" in the Psychic Phase, and be 1" away from them. Use the power that gives the Librarian +D3 Attacks, the Strategem that gives him +D3 attacks and charge in. The Relic Angel's Wing means they can't fire Overwatch on him.

Now you have a Librarian throwing 3+2D3 AP-3 attacks that wound on 2+ with The Red Thirst and a Force Sword... I think that'll kill them pretty dead. Hope you play Blood Angels haha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shoot, if your feeling REALLY gutsy you can also Deep Strike in Blood Angels Vanguard vets just out of 12" or line of sight, and use the Strategem that gives them a 3D6 charge range if they are equipped with Jump Packs when they Deep Strike in and pray for high rolls. You can also use a CP to reroll one of the three dice to make your odds of getting in even better.

Yeah, it is pretty CP intensive, but if your running a double Battalion Detachment army it shouldn't be a problem. Mine has done fairly well me pre-Codex, and the Blood Angels Codex looks to make it even better.

For reference the eldar fire at deep strikers stratagem has no restriction on being within 12” of the unit deep striking in. The target just needs to be in range and within 6” of a farseer. I assume that’s why you distinguished to deep strike just out of 12”. This isn’t the case for eldar.

Wyldcarde wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Well. A good counter now is a Blood Angels Librarian with the Relic Jump Pack. Deep Strike them just out of 12. Use Wings of Sanguinius to move 12" in the Psychic Phase, and be 1" away from them. Use the power that gives the Librarian +D3 Attacks, the Strategem that gives him +D3 attacks and charge in. The Relic Angel's Wing means they can't fire Overwatch on him.

Now you have a Librarian throwing 3+2D3 AP-3 attacks that wound on 2+ with The Red Thirst and a Force Sword... I think that'll kill them pretty dead. Hope you play Blood Angels haha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shoot, if your feeling REALLY gutsy you can also Deep Strike in Blood Angels Vanguard vets just out of 12" or line of sight, and use the Strategem that gives them a 3D6 charge range if they are equipped with Jump Packs when they Deep Strike in and pray for high rolls. You can also use a CP to reroll one of the three dice to make your odds of getting in even better.

Yeah, it is pretty CP intensive, but if your running a double Battalion Detachment army it shouldn't be a problem. Mine has done fairly well me pre-Codex, and the Blood Angels Codex looks to make it even better.

For reference the eldar fire at deep strikers stratagem has no restriction on being within 12” of the unit deep striking in. The target just needs to be in range and within 6” of a farseer. I assume that’s why you distinguished to deep strike just out of 12”. This isn’t the case for eldar.

Ah, I am mistaken. Yeah, that is a bit rough then.

Well, I guess hope that there is a piece of LOS blocking terrain within 9.1-16" you can take advantage of with your Librarian since he has a pretty absurd threat range when he drops in if you also put the 3D6 charge range Strategem on him as well since he can reroll charge ranges with Wings of Sanguinius.

The answer to me is quite simple.

Take a heavy Support detachment of imperial Fists. 1 captain bare bones. 3 whirlwinds with Castilian launchers (or vengance if you want the extra str instead of the extra attacks).

That's 6d6 str 6 attacks hitting from 72", no Los needed, rerolling ones to hit, no cover allowed and rerolling wounds if their targets are inside a "building" .

So on average it's 21 shots, around 18 hits, 15 wounds, about 5 get through the armor so you get a mise well be dead reaper squad. It only costs 368 pts for this detachment and it definitely has a useful place against eldar, or any low armor target.

Azuza001 wrote:
The answer to me is quite simple.

Take a heavy Support detachment of imperial Fists. 1 captain bare bones. 3 whirlwinds with Castilian launchers (or vengance if you want the extra str instead of the extra attacks).

That's 6d6 str 6 attacks hitting from 72", no Los needed, rerolling ones to hit, no cover allowed and rerolling wounds if their targets are inside a "building" .

So on average it's 21 shots, around 18 hits, 15 wounds, about 5 get through the armor so you get a mise well be dead reaper squad. It only costs 368 pts for this detachment and it definitely has a useful place against eldar, or any low armor target.

Unfortunately chapter tactics don’t benefit whirlwinds. Only infantry, bikes, and dreads.

Also, hitting the reapers is still the problem. -1 to hit because of craftworld, then another -1 if the Eldar player gets protect on them, even rerolling 1’s won’t make a significant difference when you’re trying to turn up 5s nd 6s.

Also there’s no point in taking vengeance launchers since it cuts your hits in half, but str7 is the same chance to wound as str 6.

Might work with a chapter master instead of a captain. Also this might be the one case where the datalink telemetry strategem might be worth trying.

Three landspeeders with twin heavy flamers each. Its 312 pts. but they move 20" and hit automatically. They will catch the attention of the reapers and you probably will lose one.