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2017/12/02 13:51:06
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
fe40k wrote: You can either have your primarch on the tabletop, but have lore issues; or you can have your lore fine, but not primarch on the tabletop.
You can’t have both - you need to pick one.
And we all know that you’d rather have an op primarch since everyone else will have one, than no primarch at all.
You can call call him something else fluff wise.
I have never understand this. Why 40k needs for the character to be alive in the present timeline to have a playable model with rules? In Fantasy 70% of the Greenskins armybook special characters where historic characters that had died hundreds of years before the present timeline of the setting. Heck, in 40k you have that with Aun'va, for example. They could totally do a model of Sanguinius for 40k without him being alive.
They could use that to make cool models of Solar Macharius for example, or other historic figures from the 31K-39K period.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/12/02 16:45:45
Subject: Re:So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
I want to see Sangy resurrected for 40K. Bobby G is a great model, strong rules, and shows how popular Primarchs can be in 40K.
But if it doesn't happen, that's OK. I'll just wait patiently for the 30K Version of Sangy and play Blood Angels then. It's hard to describe what its like playing a game with a Primarch. You have a model that will basically last the entire game unless your opponent devotes everything he has to destroying your Primarch... allowing the rest of your army to win the game. It's no joke to say that the only way to defeat a Primarch is with another Primarch. You have this model that costs 400-500 points, and he gives your entire army another trait beyond what they already have, gives access to additional rules, and is a bad himself. It's Hero Hammer with a capital 'H'. I love that about the Horus Heresy! They are a huge force multiplier and can directly influence the game.
I'd love to see that happen in 40K, but it won't.
Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience
2017/12/02 16:46:18
Subject: Re:So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Galas wrote:My opinion is that they have said a small comment on a stream that can be misinterpreted, so I'm just gonna wait and see how this ends. This won't stop people from flipping the tables and sh***ng themselves all over the place like monkeys, of course. I think is futile to be angry for something that can happen or not happen, even if its end being true. Then, one can be angry.
That is good to know. Thank you for that.
NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:I fail to see what the issue is?
Primarchs are highly marketable premium models which can be sold at a lucrative mark-up, and there is demand for them as 30k has clearly shown.
Why wouldn't a publicly listed company with shareholders who have expectations on return in their investment ride roughshod over established fluff in order to make more profit?
Just seems logical irrespective of how precious the fanbase are over the fluff.
The issue is changing the fluff/story that lots of people held on for decades to be "true". Good example would be Star Trek. The last 3 Star Trek movies are so uncanon it's sickening for me and lots of other Star Trek fans. For one, Kirk and Spock were never in the academy together. Spock and Uhura were never lovers. What is next, Luke Skywalker was never a Jedi and he and Han Solo became lovers? It's just something that is changed were I and lots of people don't agree with.
Want to go one step further? Why not say that the Emperor is not dead because he is Sigmar. So now we can become like Warmahordes, and have our 40K be able to fight Age of Sigmar minis and units now for "just because". How would you like that?
Sgt_Smudge wrote:I have just one question for the OP?
What's the proof? What's the situation? Where's the source?
This sounds like clickbait and baseless speculation.
I think Voss is right that this isn't true.
So Dakka is just a clickbait then? That is where I read it from, the below quote.
AveImperator wrote:They stated that in the video that: "Sanguinus is in statis/bad shape state."
If they retcon Sanguinius back into being alive, then that is the biggest load of garbage GW would have pulled off in my gaming life, and this is coming from a guy who started playing 40k back in 2nd ed.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/02 16:47:39
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
2017/12/02 16:46:57
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Jesus, if they are so disconnected that they bring back Sanguinius I am done with the new 40k fluff, his death is so pivotal to the background of 40k and so important, I just could not accept this "deus ex" moment.
2017/12/02 16:47:00
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
fe40k wrote: You can either have your primarch on the tabletop, but have lore issues; or you can have your lore fine, but not primarch on the tabletop.
You can’t have both - you need to pick one.
And we all know that you’d rather have an op primarch since everyone else will have one, than no primarch at all.
You can call call him something else fluff wise.
I have never understand this. Why 40k needs for the character to be alive in the present timeline to have a playable model with rules? In Fantasy 70% of the Greenskins armybook special characters where historic characters that had died hundreds of years before the present timeline of the setting. Heck, in 40k you have that with Aun'va, for example. They could totally do a model of Sanguinius for 40k without him being alive.
They could use that to make cool models of Solar Macharius for example, or other historic figures from the 31K-39K period.
This is what I think should have been mentioned. However, there is a difference between 40K Sanguinius because it's 40k. A Horus Heresy Sanguinius is totally fine. However, I don't think Sanguinius is coming back. It's such a major part of the story, and even GW has some form of logic, albeit a twisted one. They can tell people don't like known dead primarchs coming back, that's a fact, and I don't think they'll break that rule.
Formosa wrote: Jesus, if they are so disconnected that they bring back Sanguinius I am done with the new 40k fluff, his death is so pivotal to the background of 40k and so important, I just could not accept this "deus ex" moment.
How is it pivotal to all 40k...
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
2017/12/02 16:52:39
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Isn't the Sanguinor an Avatar of Sanguinius? Was his sould destroyed like Horus? I believed he was just dead. Normal dead. And his sould in the Warp mannifest as the Sanguinor to help his sons.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/12/02 17:02:21
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Galas wrote: Isn't the Sanguinor an Avatar of Sanguinius? Was his sould destroyed like Horus? I believed he was just dead. Normal dead. And his sould in the Warp mannifest as the Sanguinor to help his sons.
I think the Heresy novels revealed the Sanguinor is an actual Marine rather than a spirit thing like the Legion of the Damned.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
2017/12/02 17:06:48
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
fe40k wrote: You can either have your primarch on the tabletop, but have lore issues; or you can have your lore fine, but not primarch on the tabletop.
You can’t have both - you need to pick one.
And we all know that you’d rather have an op primarch since everyone else will have one, than no primarch at all.
You can call call him something else fluff wise.
I have never understand this. Why 40k needs for the character to be alive in the present timeline to have a playable model with rules? In Fantasy 70% of the Greenskins armybook special characters where historic characters that had died hundreds of years before the present timeline of the setting. Heck, in 40k you have that with Aun'va, for example. They could totally do a model of Sanguinius for 40k without him being alive.
They could use that to make cool models of Solar Macharius for example, or other historic figures from the 31K-39K period.
Indeed, especially since most of the IG characters are about 200 years old by now and should be dead - and nevertheless Marbo got a new model.
2017/12/02 17:57:19
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Formosa wrote: Jesus, if they are so disconnected that they bring back Sanguinius I am done with the new 40k fluff, his death is so pivotal to the background of 40k and so important, I just could not accept this "deus ex" moment.
How is it pivotal to all 40k...
How do you not know?
Sanguinius sacrificed himself, knowing he could not win and was going to die, he wanted to hold back the darkness but had no chance in succeeding, yet still went, and even for all his nobility his sacrifice was in vain, that literally embodies the core theme of 40k grim darkness, that no matter who you are, or what you have done, Chaos will always win in the end, your just holding back the tide.
Now if he returns? Well anyone can, and his sacrifice meant nothing at all, you break one of the central tenets of 40k and the second biggest event in the psyche of the imperium (first being the emperors acention to the golden throne) the death of the emperors most noble son, sacrificing himself at the hands of the serpent (Horus).
I'm not gonna just the gun on this as I doubt even gw is stupid enough to try to pull this one off, but if they do the new 40k (8th ed) fluff is a total no go for me, it's almost universally a dumpster fire already, this would push it over the edge.
2017/12/02 18:08:19
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Formosa wrote: Jesus, if they are so disconnected that they bring back Sanguinius I am done with the new 40k fluff, his death is so pivotal to the background of 40k and so important, I just could not accept this "deus ex" moment.
How is it pivotal to all 40k...
How do you not know?
Sanguinius sacrificed himself, knowing he could not win and was going to die, he wanted to hold back the darkness but had no chance in succeeding, yet still went, and even for all his nobility his sacrifice was in vain, that literally embodies the core theme of 40k grim darkness, that no matter who you are, or what you have done, Chaos will always win in the end, your just holding back the tide.
Now if he returns? Well anyone can, and his sacrifice meant nothing at all, you break one of the central tenets of 40k and the second biggest event in the psyche of the imperium (first being the emperors acention to the golden throne) the death of the emperors most noble son, sacrificing himself at the hands of the serpent (Horus).
I'm not gonna just the gun on this as I doubt even gw is stupid enough to try to pull this one off, but if they do the new 40k (8th ed) fluff is a total no go for me, it's almost universally a dumpster fire already, this would push it over the edge.
I wouldn't call that pivotal seeing as if he doesn't do that things don't change much.
It defines the setting well but pivotal it is not.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
2017/12/02 18:15:27
Subject: Re:So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
I don't see why they would need to bring back Sanguinius of all Primarchs, to be honest. It's not like there aren't any others left. Vulkan, Lion, Khan, Dorn, Corvus, Leman...none of those is considered to be permanently dead out-of-universe, so why not bring back them instead?
2017/12/02 20:19:57
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Not a surprise. It was inevitable. Unfortunate but inevitable. GW is trying to bring 30k in to 40k, and the fusion makes both settings worse.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/02 20:20:44
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2017/12/02 20:42:39
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Wayniac wrote: I've heard this as well, that his body is in stasis and his soul is somewhere else, so if they were reunited he would be reborn. Honestly I find it a bit lame; I liked the old fluff where the loyal primarchs were akin to "tall tales" like Paul Bunyan; lots of myths and legends surrounding them and their deeds, but nobody is alive who really remembers the truth since it's had 10,000 years of Imperial Propaganda to be manipulated. Hell, I liked when the Horus Heresy was like that too before Forgeworld started to expand it and detail every bit; it was IMHO better as a legend from the far past that has a lot of various tales of what happened, any/none of which may or may not be true.
It's pretty clear they want to set up the "Big Four" loyalists versus the "Big Four" traitors. So Russ, Guilliman, Lion and Sanguinius versus Angron, Mortarion, Fulgrim and Magnus s the big confrontation. Whether that means the others will come back as well or not is up to debate, but those ones are all but guaranteed (we already have two of the traitors actually available, and strong rumors of the other two coming in the future).
I think it's a little too comic book retcon-y for my taste. It removes a lot of the cool factor of the setting for the sake of putting out yet another likely overpowered model to milk sales. Remember, Sanguinius' death was basically the keystone of allowing the Emperor to kill Horus; he's the only primarch to have an imperial holiday to honor his sacrifice (the Sanguinala). If he comes back to life, does he still get the holiday? Wouldn't that cure the Black Rage since it's the psychic after-effect of his death i.e. no more Death Company?
The whole point of 40k and moving this storyline forward with the 13th Black Crusade was to show that mankind is facing the "End Times", and is on the brink of extinction but has to fight back. By bringing back primarchs, that is more akin to it moving away from that feeling of hopelessness on all sides and the forces of Chaos encroaching and into the realm of godlike heroes coming to save the Imperium, which grows stronger than ever before. It's really gakky storytelling IMHO.
So much this. The Horus Heresy books are the Star Wars prequels of 40k. In every comparable way.
2017/12/02 20:57:39
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
So I talked with someone who actually watched the devstream, and the way they explained it, the "Sanguinius is alive!" thing is wrong.
Sanguinius is dead. Deader than dead. His body is in stasis, never reaching rigor mortis and never rotting-- but he's still dead. People are taking the "his body is in stasis" thing out of context and assuming this means he's the same as Guilliman.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/02 20:58:15
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2017/12/02 21:34:22
Subject: Re:So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Commissar Benny wrote: One of the main reasons people watch Game of Thrones is because anyone could die. Recently however, several characters which were deemed dead, or died came back to life due to plot armor. In doing so, it allows the audience to latch onto those characters because they know they have said plot armor and they will not die. In the end, the very thing that attracted said audience to the show was lost in the process.
I'm just going to touch this, because I don't feel it's a good example. Prepare for tangent:
Spoiler:
Basically, Game of Thrones (more specifically A Song of Ice and Fire) was always going to have this problem near the end of the series. Regardless of medium, regardless of what happened previously, we were always going to see this turn around.
Why? Well, Thrones (I'll say that because it's easy) is really two stories rolled into one.
The most prominent one, the one which we've seen the most of and which has been the focal point, is a tale of humans being humans. Specifically that they're donkey-caves and tend to screw one another over at the drop of a hat for any gain they can muster. This is the kind of story which you can write with anyone dying at any time, because it's more about the dickery and gut punches than anything else.
There has been, however, a second story which has been present since the very first chapter. A very traditional fantasy tale of an ancient evil, long forgotten, rising from the depths and trying to take over the world.
The problem is that these two stories are now meeting and intertwining, when they're not very compatible in some ways. You can pull off the gut-punch murders in the "humans are dick" story because it works, it's arguably why that sort of story works. Inversely, the "traditional high fantasy tale" needs its heroes. Having Todd the Magical Fletcher - a never before seen character - show up to the final fight leading an army of invulnerable battle strippers who trounce the ancient evil is something no one would see coming, but it'd be really awful storytelling and absolutely no one would like it.
Different stories get people to invest in their characters in different ways, and Thrones has transformed into a fairly traditional, if suitably dark, high fantasy tale. It won't be able to pull off much in the way of shocking deaths at this point until it starts to wrap up (I.E. next season), and that's just the way it goes unfortunately.
Why does this differentiate from 40K? Well, I'd argue that 40k didn't used to have significant heroes. Back before Primarchs started to come back, pretty much everyone was relatively small fry in comparison to sheer scale of the setting. That's changing now though, which I'll agree is gakky. But it's more a shift from a story revolving around the 'setting', and the massive (if without active figure heads) forces which fight in it.. To a few brothers trying to skull-feth their estranged brothers, while Orks and Necrons blast out 90s grunge in the background.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/02 22:14:29
Melissia wrote: So I talked with someone who actually watched the devstream, and the way they explained it, the "Sanguinius is alive!" thing is wrong.
Sanguinius is dead. Deader than dead. His body is in stasis, never reaching rigor mortis and never rotting-- but he's still dead. People are taking the "his body is in stasis" thing out of context and assuming this means he's the same as Guilliman.
Shush, don't dare meddle in people's process into throwing a chimpout over already imagined and solved grievances originated from some austrian's poor grasp of the english language!
2017/12/02 22:41:06
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Formosa wrote: Jesus, if they are so disconnected that they bring back Sanguinius I am done with the new 40k fluff, his death is so pivotal to the background of 40k and so important, I just could not accept this "deus ex" moment.
How is it pivotal to all 40k...
How do you not know?
Sanguinius sacrificed himself, knowing he could not win and was going to die, he wanted to hold back the darkness but had no chance in succeeding, yet still went, and even for all his nobility his sacrifice was in vain, that literally embodies the core theme of 40k grim darkness, that no matter who you are, or what you have done, Chaos will always win in the end, your just holding back the tide.
Now if he returns? Well anyone can, and his sacrifice meant nothing at all, you break one of the central tenets of 40k and the second biggest event in the psyche of the imperium (first being the emperors acention to the golden throne) the death of the emperors most noble son, sacrificing himself at the hands of the serpent (Horus).
I'm not gonna just the gun on this as I doubt even gw is stupid enough to try to pull this one off, but if they do the new 40k (8th ed) fluff is a total no go for me, it's almost universally a dumpster fire already, this would push it over the edge.
I wouldn't call that pivotal seeing as if he doesn't do that things don't change much.
It defines the setting well but pivotal it is not.
Then no offence you are wrong, had sanguinius not sacrificed himself the whole universe would be a totally different place, the Emperor would likely have died and Horus would have succeeded, that would then lead the extinction of the human race and the defeat of the chaos gods, that is as pivotal as it gets.
2017/12/02 23:28:51
Subject: Re:So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Sgt_Smudge wrote:I have just one question for the OP?
What's the proof? What's the situation? Where's the source?
This sounds like clickbait and baseless speculation.
I think Voss is right that this isn't true.
So Dakka is just a clickbait then?
I didn't say Dakka was clickbait. I said this thread is.
You've provided no source at all in your OP. How am I supposed to believe something without a source I can trust?
That is where I read it from, the below quote.
AveImperator wrote:They stated that in the video that:
"Sanguinus is in statis/bad shape state."
Did you watch the video yourself?
What's your view then on the people who actually watched the stream, and confirm that GW said no such thing? How about the comment made a few posts after, saying
Chikout wrote: I would not worry too much. I listened to that interview live and he straight up said Sanguinius was dead just before the stasis comment. I am quite sure that as others have said he was referring to the corpse being in stasis.
Seriously, if I see a source where GW said that Sangy is ALIVE, I'll believe you, but considering plenty of people have said this isn't true, I don't think I believe you.
I don't know why people are thinking that GW has said anything like suggesting he's alive, They haven't.
They/them
2017/12/02 23:47:26
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
I warned about this when Magnus came out. Primarchs, ALL OF THEM, belong to 30k. But everybody bought the new action figure/powerplay models. This is the result.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/02 23:56:55
Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis!
2017/12/03 00:28:07
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Kaiyanwang wrote: I warned about this when Magnus came out.
Primarchs, ALL OF THEM, belong to 30k.
But everybody bought the new action figure/powerplay models.
This is the result.
You mean the status quo staying as it is ... is due to the horus heresy??
Because, you know, that's what's being discussed about. Guy's is more dead than a KKK member in the midst of Compton.
2017/12/03 00:55:50
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Kaiyanwang wrote: I warned about this when Magnus came out.
Primarchs, ALL OF THEM, belong to 30k.
But everybody bought the new action figure/powerplay models.
This is the result.
You mean the status quo staying as it is ... is due to the horus heresy??
Because, you know, that's what's being discussed about. Guy's is more dead than a KKK member in the midst of Compton.
I will wait and see what happens. I will be happy to be wrong.
Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis!
2017/12/03 01:32:56
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Kaiyanwang wrote: I warned about this when Magnus came out.
Primarchs, ALL OF THEM, belong to 30k.
But everybody bought the new action figure/powerplay models.
This is the result.
The only problem with this idea is that several Primarchs are still in 40K in the form of Daemon Princes. I look at it like this: The Bad Guys have all the big, bad, scary characters in the form of Daemon Princes, while the Good Guys have...? Chapter Masters have been reduced to "barely above Captains", while the IG have no serious characters at all! It's been so bad for the IG that they had to resurrect Sly Marbo and give him Chapter Master stats!
So yeah, it was nice to finally see the Space Marines get a model comparable to a Daemon Prince and something that Imperial Players would want to use in any army.
Really, there is a huge disconnect between the fluff and how a model actually works on the table top. That's why it's fluff, and means nothing to the actual game. So what if they bring back Sanguinius? It will be just another model to add to a collection or play with on the table. It's not the first time, nor will it be the last time GW has retcon'ed their narrative.
Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience
2017/12/03 01:46:34
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
The whole thing about Sanguinius' death has always been that Horus obliterated his soul-essence. It's why the Emperor killed Horus the way that he did.
Unless the fluff has changed a lot, I don't think that bit is correct.
Horus killed Sanguinius, yes.
But it was the Emperor who obliterated Horus' soul when he saw how evil and completely corrupted Horus had become.
It some stories, isn't it right after Horus disintegrates...an Imperial Fist terminator, or something like that?
Anyway, the Emperor obliterates Horus even though Horus is able to, in some way, realize what he's done, show horror over it, and possibly even wants forgiveness. But the Big E erases him from existence nonetheless...
2017/12/03 02:40:45
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
I remember somebody on this forum once speculating that Sanguinus could 'come back' by having the Black Rage so completely devour a Blood Angel that they literally became Sanguinus. I think that'd be a fine way to do it (and is kind of reminiscent of the Phoenix Lords, right?)
2017/12/03 02:45:05
Subject: So, SPOILER. Don't read if you want spoiler free Blood Angel fluff
Melissia wrote: So I talked with someone who actually watched the devstream, and the way they explained it, the "Sanguinius is alive!" thing is wrong.
Sanguinius is dead. Deader than dead. His body is in stasis, never reaching rigor mortis and never rotting-- but he's still dead. People are taking the "his body is in stasis" thing out of context and assuming this means he's the same as Guilliman.
Shush, don't dare meddle in people's process into throwing a chimpout over already imagined and solved grievances originated from some austrian's poor grasp of the english language!
I know I know I know, inserting logic in to an emotional, irrational argument is bad.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
himself. It's Hero Hammer with a capital 'H'. I love that about the Horus Heresy! They are a huge force multiplier and can directly influence the game.
