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Now let's start this off by listing its stats. Range 24 S8 -2AP 3dmg assault 1 12points.

Next let's point out that most Rokkitz are carried by BS5+ models and that the outlier models like Tankbustas can easily go up in price to compensate for reductions in the cost of Rokkitz.

Finally let's get into anecdotal evidence. I haven't used a single Rokkit in games since the first couple of games of 8th because they are far to expensive for what little they can accomplish. Especially when you realize they were crap at 5pts last edition and went up in cost 140%

So with all that in mind what would be a good price for Rokkitz.

They should cost 8pts or less and Tankbustas 14 (with the Rokkits).

Right now the only "special" weapon worth taking in an ork army is a Choppa...

Nerf orks, just nerf them into a pub crawl. Let the hummies that play them be the same shade of green. Make sure the pub bus breaks down at gw hq, so the drunk orks can show GW the same love gw has given the orks.

They are way too expensive. The few that hit do wreck face but generally outside of a decent round of shooting never more than one hits from a boy squad and the tankbusta boyz are only able to make their points back attack vehicles.

I voted 10, but I might have voted 8 on an afterthought. I think if they were 6 or less they would be an auto-include in many places in our Ork army. And while we all like our own army to be cheap, when something becomes an automatic choice it is probably too cheap. At the current cost of 12 you only bring them on Killa Kanz because they have BS4 and their other options are worse.

Rokkits have a bit of the same problem as Big Shootas, albeit to a lesser degree: Even if big shootas and rokkits were priced appropriately, say at 4 and 8 points respectively, they just don't do much. I mean, even if they were both free options, they wouldn't really impact the game a lot (ignoring tankbustas here)

True, but nobody uses Kanz right now because they are so heavily over priced. Even a 2-4pt reduction wouldn't make them useful.

12 seems right for the weapon itself on a BS4+ or higher model.

For an Ork, 8 should do.

I recently had a PL-match and simply put rokkits everywhere I could. Outside of mass combi-rokkits on nob units it had very little effect on the game. IMO 5 points would be the absolute maximum I would pay for a rokkit on boyz mobs, trukks, meks or deff dreads. And even then I would probably spend the points elsewhere.

So I voted 1-4 points, otherwise I would not take the upgrade outside of tank bustaz and kanz.

SemperMortis wrote:
Now let's start this off by listing its stats. Range 24 S8 -2AP 3dmg assault 1 12points.

...

Finally let's get into anecdotal evidence. I haven't used a single Rokkit in games since the first couple of games of 8th because they are far to expensive for what little they can accomplish. Especially when you realize they were crap at 5pts last edition and went up in cost 140%

So with all that in mind what would be a good price for Rokkitz.

Not to sound like a runt.... But how does it count as anectodotal evidence if you have never used them? How is what they costed last edition relevant? Should everything cost as in last edition?

Anyway I think rokkits have great potential. Bring 4 and you can with luck kill a chimera or raider in a turn. They cost roughly half of a missle launcher or lascannon, and hit half of the times comparing with marines (disregarding modifiers). Since the range is worse on rokkits, and ap comparing with las... I think the right price would be 10pts.
The rokkit has advantage of not taking heavy modifier for moving and shooting.

Gitdakka wrote:

Anyway I think rokkits have great potential. Bring 4 and you can with luck kill a chimera or raider in a turn. They cost roughly half of a missle launcher or lascannon, and hit half of the times comparing with marines (disregarding modifiers). Since the range is worse on rokkits, and ap comparing with las... I think the right price would be 10pts.
The rokkit has advantage of not taking heavy modifier for moving and shooting.

Yes, four rokkits can potentially kill a Chimera, but so can 10 pistols or 5 shootas. And that's not even a totally ridiculous comparison. If you equip 10 shoota-boyz with a rokkit launcha, then the lowly shootas will on average do more damage to a Chimera than the rokkit.

And that really is true of Orks in general. Nothing orks have is as good as simply spamming S4 attacks. And I don't think there any easy fixes to that. Rokkits at 8 points will not really change anything. Regards

8-9 points.

The S8 and the flat 3 damage are good but the BS4-5 and the AP-2 aren't. And this is the most powerful ranged weapon orks have along with KMKs, which are only for artillery and morkanauts though and it's hard to spam KMKs in a list. For spamming KMKs I actually mean 5+ of them, even with conversions is not that easy/cheap to dispose of a huge amount of artillery which is also WYSIWYG.

About the sources of rokkits I think tankbustas should be 13ppm, buggies 35-40, koptas 45, kans 40 (or 45 with WS4+) while dreads should have other options anyway and on naughts they're just bonus, the effectiveness of bigger walkers and transports is not affected by cheaper rokkits.

Boyz and kommandos don't care either, they will fire at BS6+ or be locked in combat (or dead) anyway, they will probably fire for one turn with their crappy aim.

I think the appropriate cost of rokkits should be 8-9 points but the units that can have them are overcosted anyway, and if those units don't go down in price significantly, rokkits would be overcosted even at 5 points each.

Will there be a separate thread for every Ork weapon?

Yeah, they’re definitely too expensive at the moment. I haven’t really played with points since 8th dropped, but if I were, I’d always rather take two more boyz than a RL. The only thing they seem worthwhile on at the moment is Tankbustas, so it seems to me it’d make sense to bump of their cost, and reduce the price of rokkits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Generally though, whether in points or PL, it seems like Orks are currently paying too much for any sort of ranged options – there are very few instances where it wouldn’t just be a better idea to load up on more boyz.

 Crimson wrote:
Will there be a separate thread for every Ork weapon?

That would somehow be extremely appropriate for a site called dakkadakka


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nazrak wrote:
Generally though, whether in points or PL, it seems like Orks are currently paying too much for any sort of ranged options – there are very few instances where it wouldn’t just be a better idea to load up on more boyz.

In Power-levels tankbustas are extremely good. 15 tankbustas + 6 bomb squigs is 10 PL. 5 lootas is 8 PL. I mean, wtf?

pismakron wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

Anyway I think rokkits have great potential. Bring 4 and you can with luck kill a chimera or raider in a turn. They cost roughly half of a missle launcher or lascannon, and hit half of the times comparing with marines (disregarding modifiers). Since the range is worse on rokkits, and ap comparing with las... I think the right price would be 10pts.
The rokkit has advantage of not taking heavy modifier for moving and shooting.

Yes, four rokkits can potentially kill a Chimera, but so can 10 pistols or 5 shootas. And that's not even a totally ridiculous comparison. If you equip 10 shoota-boyz with a rokkit launcha, then the lowly shootas will on average do more damage to a Chimera than the rokkit.

And that really is true of Orks in general. Nothing orks have is as good as simply spamming S4 attacks. And I don't think there any easy fixes to that. Rokkits at 8 points will not really change anything. Regards

While this is true to some extent, i think it's skewed cause you compare 9 shoota boyz to one rokkit boy. If you compared 9 shoota boyz and 1 rokkit to 12 shoota boyz it would be more fair as they cost same for 2 different loadouts And im sure the squad with rokkit is better against high end targets. Spamming strength 4 can only take you to a certain length. Then t8 or 2+save with multiple wounds stops you dead.

pismakron wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Will there be a separate thread for every Ork weapon?

That would somehow be extremely appropriate for a site called dakkadakka


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nazrak wrote:
Generally though, whether in points or PL, it seems like Orks are currently paying too much for any sort of ranged options – there are very few instances where it wouldn’t just be a better idea to load up on more boyz.

In Power-levels tankbustas are extremely good. 15 tankbustas + 6 bomb squigs is 10 PL. 5 lootas is 8 PL. I mean, wtf?

Aye, TBs are very good for what you pay in PL – only marginally more expensive than boyz once you start taking big mobs. If anything, Ithink you could make an argument they’re slightly under costed in PL. Lootas, on the other hand, are ridiculous. I’m convinced that PL8 for the initial five guys is a typo.

Gitdakka wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Now let's start this off by listing its stats. Range 24 S8 -2AP 3dmg assault 1 12points.

...

Finally let's get into anecdotal evidence. I haven't used a single Rokkit in games since the first couple of games of 8th because they are far to expensive for what little they can accomplish. Especially when you realize they were crap at 5pts last edition and went up in cost 140%

So with all that in mind what would be a good price for Rokkitz.

Not to sound like a runt.... But how does it count as anectodotal evidence if you have never used them? How is what they costed last edition relevant? Should everything cost as in last edition?

Anyway I think rokkits have great potential. Bring 4 and you can with luck kill a chimera or raider in a turn. They cost roughly half of a missle launcher or lascannon, and hit half of the times comparing with marines (disregarding modifiers). Since the range is worse on rokkits, and ap comparing with las... I think the right price would be 10pts.
The rokkit has advantage of not taking heavy modifier for moving and shooting.

It's anecdotal because I have used them. I specifically said "after the first couple of games of 8th".

So to your point, yes 4 rokkitz can kill a chimera, but the odds of that happening are slim to say the least. 4 rokkitz hit 1.33 times on average they wound 2/3 the time and the chimera has a 1/3rd chance to save those wounds. On the flipside of this 4 Missile Launchers hit 2.66 times wound 2/3rd the time and same save rate for the chimera. The difference is that MLs have D6dmg and on theoreticals it only takes 2.

I voted for 10.

12 would be half missile launcher, but they can't use the second firing mode, so 10. If 9 was a choice though i would have voted for it.

SemperMortis wrote:
Next let's point out that most Rokkitz are carried by BS5+ models and that the outlier models like Tankbustas can easily go up in price to compensate for reductions in the cost of Rokkitz.

I am hoping that we get price drops on many weapons and increases on the units that can take them (where appropriate) or get differentiated pricing on some weapons like Tyranids and IG have. There are probably other ways to make things worth it too , like a Kannon on a Battlewagon might be worth it if it could fire twice.

One thing that bugs me is that it looks that they at least partially recognized how overly expensive Rokkits are. I mean, they made Tankbustas 5 points each, which is less than regular Boyz.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:
True, but nobody uses Kanz right now because they are so heavily over priced. Even a 2-4pt reduction wouldn't make them useful.

Yep, it doesn't matter much what weapon is put on the Kan because the platform itself is too expensive. Same thing with Deffkoptas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They also have an opportunity to do different things with different types of Rokkits, since they gave Deffkoptas Kopta Rokkits and Buggies/Trakks Racks of Rokkits instead of just giving them Twin Rokkits. I'm guessing they did that just so they could adjust points for units separately, but they could also maybe use it to differentiate weapons like make Kopta Rokkits four shots but single-use and make Racks of Rokkits Assault 4, S7 Dd3 or something like that.

I'm not sure if the above is a good idea. Having a lot of variety is fun but on the other hand having relatively few but really broad categories of weapons gives us modelers more freedom.

Also, who knows what Kopta and Buggy options will actually make it into the Codex. I'm excited for the book to come out but also scared about what all they're going to cut.

Kanz with rokkits are now 63 points while they should be 35-40 at most. After all they have a single rokkit fired at BS4+ and in close combat they hit on 5s. All the ork walkers are utterly overpriced, they're not an exception.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Also, who knows what Kopta and Buggy options will actually make it into the Codex. I'm excited for the book to come out but also scared about what all they're going to cut.

Well unless we get lucky and actually get models on release linked big shoota only for both.

AOBR koptas are modeled with quad rokkits.

 Jidmah wrote:
AOBR koptas are modeled with quad rokkits.

Are those koptas in sale right now? Well okay guess they could release them on own packet but unless they are _on sale_ on the day codex comes out nope, won't be in codex. Just like other stuff that used to have models are left in index only rules.

Is it the more problem with how orks are base BS5 for balancing the points cost of the weapons rather then the points them selves?

As soon as anything moves, or has -1 to hit from a outside source you're hitting on 6s and unless you roll huge handfuls of dice the shooting isn't relevant.

The last time to hit modifiers were a part of the game orks had a ballistic skill of 4+. I highly doubt this will return (it would weaken our identity as comic relief), but that would fix a lot of issues. It's fairly trivial for eg an eldar unit to gain a -2 to hit modifier, making it invulnerable to ork shooting.

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
AOBR koptas are modeled with quad rokkits.

Are those koptas in sale right now? Well okay guess they could release them on own packet but unless they are _on sale_ on the day codex comes out nope, won't be in codex. Just like other stuff that used to have models are left in index only rules.

You seem awfully sure of that to be such a nice guy about it.

The AOBR box has been released after the kopta currently sold by GW. There is no precedent for that in any of the released codices as far as I'm aware.

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
AOBR koptas are modeled with quad rokkits.

Are those koptas in sale right now? Well okay guess they could release them on own packet but unless they are _on sale_ on the day codex comes out nope, won't be in codex. Just like other stuff that used to have models are left in index only rules.

You seem awfully sure of that to be such a nice guy about it.

The AOBR box has been released after the kopta currently sold by GW. There is no precedent for that in any of the released codices as far as I'm aware.

Only dethkopta I see on GW site is the non-AOBR one. Again codex reflex what's on sale there. If they want that option in codex they need to rerelease the box into the site.

Those koptas also don't have bombs, which are mandatory now.

I know what you're trying to say, but nothing is set in stone yet, especially not for a model that was released after the one currently sold. On top of that, we will definitely be able to use the index for those models.
So no need to be so condescending about it.

Things I also don't see:
- Big Mek without SAG or MA
- MA warboss
- anything on bike but warbikers
- boss nobz with big choppas for anything but warbikers
- PK warbiker boss nobz
- boss nobz with any upgrades at all for storm boyz and tank bustas
- kommandos with big shoota or burna
- skorchas, despite having received a price drop in CA
- KMB kanz

This is going to be one bland codex if all that goes away.

Not being condescending. It was asked what options it will have in codex. Answer is simple: Barring new release on GW store big shoota. Simple as that. Codex entries reflect what's on sale on GW store. That's their modus operandi. If you can't buy kit from GW store you won't find it in codex. Doesn't matter if it's old kit or simple conversion. It's not on sale, it's not in codex.

Guess what's another option that's going to vanish barring new model release? Warboss in mega armour...That is in fast lane for being removed from codex.

tneva82 wrote:
Not being condescending. It was asked what options it will have in codex. Answer is simple: Barring new release on GW store big shoota. Simple as that. Codex entries reflect what's on sale on GW store. That's their modus operandi. If you can't buy kit from GW store you won't find it in codex. Doesn't matter if it's old kit or simple conversion. It's not on sale, it's not in codex.

Guess what's another option that's going to vanish barring new model release? Warboss in mega armour...That is in fast lane for being removed from codex.

I really hope none of this will happen.

It will mean tons of units completely deleted since just a few stuff actually have official models, especially HQs, and massive new releases to compensate the issue is something that's not gonna happen. IMHO converting should be standard part of the hobby, as much as painting at least. I'm in the hobby since 3rd edition and never been interested in those armies that can't be converted or highly customized.

I don't care if a 12yo kid can't kitbash or convert, deleting stuff from rules only because there isn't an official model is one of the silliest thing I've ever seen about 40k.

Can SM razorbacks have the twin assault cannon? It's not in the box, but still in the codex.