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 frozenwastes wrote:

 Chamberlain wrote:
I decided to go the other way and am expanding Necromunda 2017 into a 40k skirmish game starting with Inquismunda content.

Epic seems like a good starting point for a fast game that has things like knights and shadowswords and riptides.

As someone who has played in your first playtesting of new Necromunda based Inq28, I think the psychic powers need a rework. The 40k system is alright, but we certainly need an alternative to mortal wounds.

Where be this? I always love seeing skirmish 40k rules sets

On Yaktribe. In the Inquisimunda section. Early work in progress.

Here's a few suggestions I've been thinking about, I'm happy with most of the changes to 8th, in some areas however I feel they've simplified it too far.

1: Character targeting has always irked me a bit, even more so when they changed it in CA, preventing you from targeting one if there's a hidden enemy unit behind. With this in mind I thought of the basis of a new targeting rule that may be an improvement.

A Character may not be targeted in the Shooting Phase unless one of the following criteria are met:

- The Character has a wounds characteristic of more than 10.
- The Character is the closest enemy unit.
- There are no enemy units within 6" of the Character..

This I feel would avoid situations whereby there's a Character in front of you, but an enemy squad slightly closer but behind you prevents you targeting the lone dude.

2: Morale I feel is hugely detrimental to certain armies, while being a minor inconvenience to others. My Skitarii for example have very few ways to prevent Battleshock besides spending 2CP.

I'd like to see a method where you can still pass Morale despite the losses you've taken, perhaps along the lines of "A roll of 1 is always a pass regardless of the numbers of models lost". This actually gives some units a chance to survive Morale whereas it's common to take a few casualties and just remove the squad as there's no way you can prevent them running.

3: Vehicles: While I don't mind the changes from AV values to Strength and Toughness, I think Vehicles could be refined further. I would give a blanket rule allowing all Vehicles to move and fire Heavy weapons without penalty. I would additionally give them some sort of CC boost. Most vehicles have WS6+ and no Ap or Damage values at all, despite the fact that it's a 40-ton tank crushing anything in it's path. You can surround a tank with Gaunts, Ork Boyz etc and as it can't move out of combat if there's no room, you're stuck, trying in vain to clear some room, unlikely as you only have 3 attacks hitting on 6+ and no Ap. Additionally, putting weapon facings back in the game would be good, makes the use of vehicles more tactical, especially Flyers.

4: Targeting in general. Simply put I would reintroduce the rule of "Banners, weapons and other paraphernalia that aren't part of the target's body cannot be targeted." I can get my Guardsmen in cover, but if you can see the Vox aerial poking out, not only does that allow you to target him, but the whole squad.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Here's a few suggestions I've been thinking about, I'm happy with most of the changes to 8th, in some areas however I feel they've simplified it too far.

1: Character targeting has always irked me a bit, even more so when they changed it in CA, preventing you from targeting one if there's a hidden enemy unit behind. With this in mind I thought of the basis of a new targeting rule that may be an improvement.

A Character may not be targeted in the Shooting Phase unless one of the following criteria are met:

- The Character has a wounds characteristic of more than 10.
- The Character is the closest visible enemy unit.
- There are no enemy units within 6" of the Character..

This I feel would avoid situations whereby there's a Character in front of you, but an enemy squad slightly closer but behind you prevents you targeting the lone dude.

Added a word to improve what you had to say.

 Valkyrie wrote:

3: Vehicles: While I don't mind the changes from AV values to Strength and Toughness, I think Vehicles could be refined further. I would give a blanket rule allowing all Vehicles to move and fire Heavy weapons without penalty. I would additionally give them some sort of CC boost. Most vehicles have WS6+ and no Ap or Damage values at all, despite the fact that it's a 40-ton tank crushing anything in it's path. You can surround a tank with Gaunts, Ork Boyz etc and as it can't move out of combat if there's no room, you're stuck, trying in vain to clear some room, unlikely as you only have 3 attacks hitting on 6+ and no Ap. Additionally, putting weapon facings back in the game would be good, makes the use of vehicles more tactical, especially Flyers.

The penalty for moving really makes no sense. Sentinels hit on 5s if they move despite being scout vehicles designed to navigate debris. I think though, that vehicles/monsters should just ignore being engaged in close combat as far as restrictions go. i.e. they can shoot while locked in combat or fall back and shoot. It gives them more weight and differentiates them from infantry.

Dandelion wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

3: Vehicles: While I don't mind the changes from AV values to Strength and Toughness, I think Vehicles could be refined further. I would give a blanket rule allowing all Vehicles to move and fire Heavy weapons without penalty. I would additionally give them some sort of CC boost. Most vehicles have WS6+ and no Ap or Damage values at all, despite the fact that it's a 40-ton tank crushing anything in it's path. You can surround a tank with Gaunts, Ork Boyz etc and as it can't move out of combat if there's no room, you're stuck, trying in vain to clear some room, unlikely as you only have 3 attacks hitting on 6+ and no Ap. Additionally, putting weapon facings back in the game would be good, makes the use of vehicles more tactical, especially Flyers.

The penalty for moving really makes no sense. Sentinels hit on 5s if they move despite being scout vehicles designed to navigate debris. I think though, that vehicles/monsters should just ignore being engaged in close combat as far as restrictions go. i.e. they can shoot while locked in combat or fall back and shoot. It gives them more weight and differentiates them from infantry.

Do you really want hive tyrants doing that?

 Lance845 wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

3: Vehicles: While I don't mind the changes from AV values to Strength and Toughness, I think Vehicles could be refined further. I would give a blanket rule allowing all Vehicles to move and fire Heavy weapons without penalty. I would additionally give them some sort of CC boost. Most vehicles have WS6+ and no Ap or Damage values at all, despite the fact that it's a 40-ton tank crushing anything in it's path. You can surround a tank with Gaunts, Ork Boyz etc and as it can't move out of combat if there's no room, you're stuck, trying in vain to clear some room, unlikely as you only have 3 attacks hitting on 6+ and no Ap. Additionally, putting weapon facings back in the game would be good, makes the use of vehicles more tactical, especially Flyers.

The penalty for moving really makes no sense. Sentinels hit on 5s if they move despite being scout vehicles designed to navigate debris. I think though, that vehicles/monsters should just ignore being engaged in close combat as far as restrictions go. i.e. they can shoot while locked in combat or fall back and shoot. It gives them more weight and differentiates them from infantry.

Do you really want hive tyrants doing that?

There are a number of vehicles that have better BS than they should (e.g. Crimson Hunter) to counter the move-and-fire penalty. If you gave out a blanket exception for vehicles/monsters you'd have to debuff the BS on a few models. Not a huge problem.

Addendum: Another possibility would be to take the "this weapon is Assault when mounted on a vehicle" rule off the Dark Lance, make it a keyword/USR, and start handing it out to more weapons, so things like a Basilisk that shouldn't really be firing on the move still get the penalty.

For me one big change is make it maximum of 50% of your armies power level or points cost can be in reserve. This would prevent Acolyte imperial soup deep strike spam as well as, ripper swarm / biovore spam for tyranids and nurgling spam for Daemons to cheese the army in reserves. Getting tired of fighting an army where out of 124 power level, 24 of it is on the table and all the rest can arrive within 9" without danger

icefire78 wrote:
For me one big change is make it maximum of 50% of your armies power level or points cost can be in reserve. This would prevent Acolyte imperial soup deep strike spam as well as, ripper swarm / biovore spam for tyranids and nurgling spam for Daemons to cheese the army in reserves. Getting tired of fighting an army where out of 124 power level, 24 of it is on the table and all the rest can arrive within 9" without danger

Excepting those stratagems that let you shoot them when they show up.

Plus, 24 PL is about 8 Nurglings, which leaves us with an average PL of 12.5 for the rest of the units. That's about 16 CP (though some would be cheap enough to cost only 1 CP-so let's call it 10-12 CP) to Deep Strike them all. How are they getting so many CP?

 JNAProductions wrote:

icefire78 wrote:
For me one big change is make it maximum of 50% of your armies power level or points cost can be in reserve. This would prevent Acolyte imperial soup deep strike spam as well as, ripper swarm / biovore spam for tyranids and nurgling spam for Daemons to cheese the army in reserves. Getting tired of fighting an army where out of 124 power level, 24 of it is on the table and all the rest can arrive within 9" without danger

Excepting those stratagems that let you shoot them when they show up.

Plus, 24 PL is about 8 Nurglings, which leaves us with an average PL of 12.5 for the rest of the units. That's about 16 CP (though some would be cheap enough to cost only 1 CP-so let's call it 10-12 CP) to Deep Strike them all. How are they getting so many CP?

Not as familiar with the Daemon one, I've experienced this mainly with imperial soup and Tyranids, Imperial soup one is super easy due to acolytes (8 points) units and just spamming stuff that arrives from reserves. Tyranids I made a list between using Terror from Below (Jarmungadr or however you spell it) and pheromone trails, can easily Deep strike in 3 units of ravaners, 1 neurothrope, 3x 20 man genestealers, 1x 19 man genestealers, 1x Lictors, and 2x units of Hive guard w/ shock cannons, all of this for 7 command points, just start 2x neurothropes, 5x rippers swarms, 5x Biovores on the table. Also have seen this with Tau (commander spam w/ drone support). I think thousand sons can do this with a horde of tzangors and some form of infiltrate and the gem to get 3 units up turn one?