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Honestly, I feel this would fix them (and many of these ideas have been expressed previously in this thread which speaks to their obvious nature):

1. Inquisitors can be part of any Imperium detachment without destroying the faction bonus.

2. Inquisitors get 3 powers from their militant counterpart added to their base 3 powers (so Hereticus gets 3 Primaris Psyker powers, Malleus gets 3 Grey Knight powers and Xenos gets 3 Librarius powers).

3. Inquisitors confer their Ordo Trait on all models within 6" of the Inquisitor regardless of faction as long as those models are part of the Inquisitor's detachment (not army).

4. Monkeys gain <Character> keyword.

5. Monkeys can target any friendly unit within 3" of the model that has the <Infantry> keyword rather than <Ordo> keyword.

6. Daemonhosts that are within 3" of an Inquisitor may choose which power to manifest rather than decide randomly.

7. Daemonhosts gain the <Ordo> keyword.

8. Inquisitors gain 6 relics and can take 1 for free even if they are not the Warlord and are in a mixed detachment. The Inquisitor stratagem to take additional relics is, however, 1CP more at each level than other factions'.

9. The Inquisition receives its own unique stratagems that can be used as long as an Inquisitor is anywhere in your army and your army is battleforged.

10. Inquisitors gain access to their own Warlord traits.

Basically, the point is to make the Inquisition function like a swiss-army knife you can slot in to plug some gaps in your force.

You can even still do this while merging them into several armies as Codex: Agents of the Imperium (but I doubt you get Custodes given the main webpage lists them as separate and they're getting their own HQ).

They used to be part of the Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle codecies...their chamber militants. The best thing would be to add them back, and make those factions the inquisitorial beatsticks they are in the fluff.

The problem with the Inquisition is that they where part of the Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights armies until they split off on their own, at which point the Inquisition became a 'allies' army, not a complete force per say but a small faction that was designed to be added onto another, larger and more complete, army to add a little spice to it.
They where never intended to be a standalone army and it shows.

Not quite. The Grey Knights and Sisters were (major) parts of the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunter codeces respectively, each of them being written as Inquisition lead (in ideology, albeit rarely in practicality) supplementary forces to other Imperial armies. Of course, this was back in third edition, where GW's writing was still a lot more naive, and hot off the heels of the passion project that was Inquisitor 54mm. Things had a certain sense of magic to them back then, but it often came at the cost of playability for those books.

They were, in my opinion, both the best and the worst codeces that GW has ever written.

It wouldn’t be hard to go back to the “Ordo ____” method now: SOB and Deathwatch are both still waiting on a codex, and creating an Ordo Malleus codex would give GW an excuse to re-write the horrible GK codex. Then we’d finally have all three of the major Ordos (Hereticus, Malleus, and Xenos) in their own codecies and an easy way for GW to flesh out 3 factions with the same set of models and allow for future growth of those factions.

 greyknight12 wrote:
It wouldn’t be hard to go back to the “Ordo ____” method now: SOB and Deathwatch are both still waiting on a codex, and creating an Ordo Malleus codex would give GW an excuse to re-write the horrible GK codex. Then we’d finally have all three of the major Ordos (Hereticus, Malleus, and Xenos) in their own codecies and an easy way for GW to flesh out 3 factions with the same set of models and allow for future growth of those factions.

I'd rather a single, larger book that contains them like the old Imperial Agents book. But they couldn't half-ass it like they did the Imperial Agents book. Inquisitors and retinues could be built up with a series of traits, which would then inform their access to the Orders Militant and other fun toys.

Start with your Ordo (Hereticus, Malleus, Xenos), then your alignment (Puritan, Radical), and your philosophy (Thorian, Istvaanian, Xanthism, etc., although these would be split between Puritan and Radical alignments), with each one giving abilities or unit access to Inquisitors and their retinues. Limit detachments to one Inquisitor per (although multiple detachments would allow multiple Inquisitors to work together as a cell), and then fill the ranks with the rest.

Also, make Daemonhosts not suck. They've been waiting for so long.

 Peregrine wrote:

They would be wrong, given the clearly established direction of 40k where the game is all about massive vehicles and god-like characters. Mechanically and thematically a Baneblade is no different from a squadron of LRBTs, a unit which has been in the core game since way back in 5th edition (and present as single-tank units much earlier). You can argue about them from a balance point of view, but a pitched battle between hundreds of infantry, whole squadrons of tanks, etc, is exactly the sort of place in the 40k fluff where you'd expect to find a Baneblade. The same is not true of the inquisition. Forget the game mechanics, from a fluff point of view they should never be present on the kind of battlefield that a 40k game represents. They should be sneaking around investigating stuff and executing suspected traitors/tainted psykers/etc, not forming up whole armies and engaging in a frontal assault against an enemy army.

Wrong, from a fluff perspective anyway. Iirc there's three instances in Eisenhorn with large scale battles (as in including Space marines, tanks and so on), lead by Inquisitors at the frontline. I'm pretty sure there's similar stuff in Emperors mercy but I loathe the book and don't want to recall it. Eisenhorn even takes on a renegade warlord titan you know, in a more of less mexican stand off.

Back in its inception the Inquisition had two unique mechanics (not counting the GK, SoB or DW datasheet mechanics). Theese where the warband and the induction. I'm thinking the answer lies in theese mechanics in how to make the Inquisition relevant in 8th ed.

1. Warband
It's a kind of low scale thing. The principle was that various Acolytes would give various buffs the the Inquisitor. For example the "warrior" gave +1ws, the mystic allowed you to reaction shoot at deep striking units within 3d6, the familiar gave you +1 psychic power and so on. Right now the Acolytes are kind of pointless except for the +2wound soak (look out sir!) and special weapons. I'm thinking this could be relevant if the Inquisitor got things like outflank, deep strike or infiltrate with various special rules from various specialists. Similar to the assasins. It could be combined with something like reaction fire or a buffed board wide deny the witch roll. It wouldn't hurt if they could bring a unit along for the ride as well and would fit the theme.

2. Induction
The Inquisition used to be the only army that could combine various codexes. This was heavily restricted but very clear nische. I'm thinking this might actually be the key. I've never seen it mentioned so maybe people don't like the idea but this old roll could be brought back. Give the Inquisition the ability to make a battleforge detatchment from any codex, but limit it reasonably. For instance it could be no lords of war and only a single unit from a chosen codex that get the "Inquisition" keyword. Bring along a mercenary ork horde of boys , a mind controlled Tyranid, a summoned host of deamons or a bribed ynnari squad. This would let people combine collections or buy fancy units while keeping them relevant in game. It could be combined with the above mentioned rule to have two squads with a specific purpose. Maybe they could infiltrate togheter but have to set up within 6" of each other or something.

In a game that is already becoming bloated with too many factions I'd have to agree with those calling for Inquisition to simply be removed as a faction. Maybe you could have an Inquisitor available to certain Imperial factions, contained within that faction's Codex, to allow you to represent the Inquisitor leading/advising the army but I just don't think Inquisitors work on the scale of 40k.

If you're fighting a 40k battle you're much more likely to be at the point where the Inquisitor has identified some threat, called in the cavalry, either in the form of Guard or Space Marines, pointed at the enemy and said "kill them". At that point the SM Captain or Guard commander takes over, which is what your game would represent. Yes, I know there may be situations where an Inquisitor directly gets involved in the battle but I think a big problem in 40k over the last 5 years are the repeated attempts to cover every eventuality with rules and units. What happened to imagination and conversions?

If you really want an Inquisitorial force I'd argue the mechanism already exists with Tempestus Scions. They're a good enough fit as Inquisitorial shock troops and you can supplement them with regular guardsmen and vehicles too. It's not perfect, but I think it's good enough at the scale of a 40k game.

Slipspace wrote:
In a game that is already becoming bloated with too many factions I'd have to agree with those calling for Inquisition to simply be removed as a faction. Maybe you could have an Inquisitor available to certain Imperial factions, contained within that faction's Codex, to allow you to represent the Inquisitor leading/advising the army but I just don't think Inquisitors work on the scale of 40k.

If you're fighting a 40k battle you're much more likely to be at the point where the Inquisitor has identified some threat, called in the cavalry, either in the form of Guard or Space Marines, pointed at the enemy and said "kill them". At that point the SM Captain or Guard commander takes over, which is what your game would represent. Yes, I know there may be situations where an Inquisitor directly gets involved in the battle but I think a big problem in 40k over the last 5 years are the repeated attempts to cover every eventuality with rules and units. What happened to imagination and conversions?

If you really want an Inquisitorial force I'd argue the mechanism already exists with Tempestus Scions. They're a good enough fit as Inquisitorial shock troops and you can supplement them with regular guardsmen and vehicles too. It's not perfect, but I think it's good enough at the scale of a 40k game.

Well if you want to think scales remove super heavies as well. When those are on battlefield they would be accompanied by "few" more infantries than few dozen.

I think the best solution for Inquisitors is that that are a an HQ choice for the chamber millitant armies i.e. Sisters, Deathwatch and Grey Knights in the same way it worked in Codex Witch Hunters.

You could even theme the HQ choice 's wargear options fit, lsuch as Deathwatch inquisitors being able to take a Shuriken pistol for example.

Finally, you could add an option to take 1 acolyte squad for each Inquisitor with all the options for Death cultists, servitors, itinerant friars, exorcists et al that comprise his associates.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Make the different types of Inquisitors part of the Imperial armies that they would usually attach themselves. Allow Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors to be part of the SoB list as an HQ with an Elite bodyguard type unit appropriate to the Ordo. Xenos Inquisitors to Deathwatch, Malleus to the Grey Knights. They would be themed by being available to the armies they associate with. If you wanted an I quisitir to join your Space Space Marines, field a detachment of that army with an Inquisitor in it.

Inquisition are interesting, but they don't need to be stand alone where we are creating an entirely seperate army to get them on the table top.

This. (Now you can always take one unit of Guard's Infantry Squad for patrol detachments or use Vanguard with inquisitional elites. And you can always use auxiliary detachment (-1cp). Or take Inquisitor, primaris psyker and third imperium HQ)

Well if you want to think scales remove super heavies as well. When those are on battlefield they would be accompanied by "few" more infantries than few dozen.

40K's success depends on it being many things to many people, I hate super heavies as much as the next man but some people like creating massive battles in 40k whereas others (like me) like having a couple squads fighting a preliminary skirmish. The options should exist for both sides imo.

It is funny that people say Inquisitors and Baneblades cannot exist at the same scale when there is the novel Iron Harvest where an Inquisitor handpicks a Baneblade to help her with her plan to nab some Dark Eldar.

It is a weird book to be sure.

The dying moments of 7ed gave birth to the Imperial Agents codex, which failed horribly, but was very potent as an idea.

The codex with blank models, which do not ruin the “chapter tactics” gathered in one book: inquisitors, techpriests, munistorum priests, etc.
They should be support units to the imperial factions, but a little overpriced in order to make it fair for chaos and xenos.

Inquisition should provide huge benefits to sob, gk or dw armies depending on the Ordo, and inquisitorial warbands should be more like 6ed ones with 3-12 size and assortment to chose with (buy certain options should be <ordo> specific).

Given it will be Agents codex, i do not think big I requires any more than inquisitors and retinue.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
It is funny that people say Inquisitors and Baneblades cannot exist at the same scale when there is the novel Iron Harvest where an Inquisitor handpicks a Baneblade to help her with her plan to nab some Dark Eldar.

It is a weird book to be sure.

I think 40k is an example of a world where everything that can happen will happen...

Back on topic:
I really liked the Imperial Agents book, as it made me rethink what these models represent. It made me think 'ah, these agents are all just individuals in a big, bureaucratic system that prevents them from being seen on battlefields very often. You can have as many agents as you like in your model collection, but it would be weird to think you'd ever field an army of them.

I was a massive fan of the 3rd ed Daemonhunters codex, and created an army with an inquisitor with retinue, two units of inquisitorial stormtroopers and some Grey Knights. I feel like I maintained the feel of the scarcity of each type of troop by only including a few of each in the army. I had two HQs - the inquisitor and a GK Grand Master, and so it functioned as two detachments who, fluffwise, would be operating independently (I could never really envisage GKs following anyone's orders but their own) towards a common goal.

Inquisition armies should be difficult to design, build and use, because if they're not, everyone will be playing them and they'll lose their 'weirdness'. I'm a fan of this in general, and it's why I am not necessarily in favour of balance. The game, in order to retain fluffiness, needs some armies to be cheap and easy to create (space marines, guard, orks, CSM), so that they are the most common armies, and then there needs to be other armies that are maybe a bit more expensive and difficult to create (inquisition, ad mech, harlequins, dark eldar), so that they stay quite rare across tabletops. I think it's good to have a game that combines entry level ease with advanced level stuff for experienced gamers, both in terms of modelling and rules.

So my point is that I'd actually rather not have Inquisition as a "viable" (and definitely not powerful) force rules-wise, because in my experience, doing so makes them too common on the tabletop. They should remain a weird force that you only play because you really like them!

 Kroem wrote:

Well if you want to think scales remove super heavies as well. When those are on battlefield they would be accompanied by "few" more infantries than few dozen.

40K's success depends on it being many things to many people, I hate super heavies as much as the next man but some people like creating massive battles in 40k whereas others (like me) like having a couple squads fighting a preliminary skirmish. The options should exist for both sides imo.

No disagreement there. I'm just opposing to using scale as excuse to remove inquisitors when scale is just as good if not better reason to remove super heavies.

 corpuschain wrote:


I could never really envisage GKs following anyone's orders but their own

I second your ideas and vision of the inquisition, except that one.
GK have always been the lapdogs of the Ordo Malleus.
Thus they were in the same codex.

Have your read “the Emoeror’s Gift” by Aaron Dembski Bowden?

tneva82 wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
In a game that is already becoming bloated with too many factions I'd have to agree with those calling for Inquisition to simply be removed as a faction. Maybe you could have an Inquisitor available to certain Imperial factions, contained within that faction's Codex, to allow you to represent the Inquisitor leading/advising the army but I just don't think Inquisitors work on the scale of 40k.

If you're fighting a 40k battle you're much more likely to be at the point where the Inquisitor has identified some threat, called in the cavalry, either in the form of Guard or Space Marines, pointed at the enemy and said "kill them". At that point the SM Captain or Guard commander takes over, which is what your game would represent. Yes, I know there may be situations where an Inquisitor directly gets involved in the battle but I think a big problem in 40k over the last 5 years are the repeated attempts to cover every eventuality with rules and units. What happened to imagination and conversions?

If you really want an Inquisitorial force I'd argue the mechanism already exists with Tempestus Scions. They're a good enough fit as Inquisitorial shock troops and you can supplement them with regular guardsmen and vehicles too. It's not perfect, but I think it's good enough at the scale of a 40k game.

Well if you want to think scales remove super heavies as well. When those are on battlefield they would be accompanied by "few" more infantries than few dozen.

I have no problem with that. I mean, there were more points to my argument than the fact Inquisitors are too small scale for 40k, but getting rid of SHVs and Flyers would probably improve the game, IMO.

Fan67 wrote:

 corpuschain wrote:


I could never really envisage GKs following anyone's orders but their own

I second your ideas and vision of the inquisition, except that one.
GK have always been the lapdogs of the Ordo Malleus.
Thus they were in the same codex.

Have your read “the Emoeror’s Gift” by Aaron Dembski Bowden?

I haven't read that book, but I do actually agree. At the time of creating the army, I had my own ideas. These have changed since learning more about the Inquisition. NO ONE questions an inquisitor's authority!

Custodians can. But that's about it.

Space Marine chapters are given a little bit of leeway in that their own broad spheres of influence mean that a level of formality is involved in dealing with them in both directions, but at the end of the day, the Inquisitor is the final authority.

The chambers militant are direct arms of the Inquisition (the Grey Knights were a bit different from a normal chapter in the good old days, but even now, they're still an Inquisitional tool before they are a Space Marine chapter), and while they may act independently, they are always expected to act in lockstep with Inquisitional command.

I would love for my GK to go back to the “attack dog” of the Ordo Malleus. That’s what they were originally, and would give us something different than just being Adeptus Astartes chapter 666. For SOB, it gives them a more thematic reason to be on the battlefield. And fleshing our Deathwatch lets them be something other than those marines with the cool grenade launchers. Finally, it makes Inquisition a real force with a real purpose, and one that isn’t just allies for someone else (though they can still be taken as such).

Rolling Inquisiton into other books makes them a better, more potent faction while simultaneously reducing the leftover bloat from 7th ed.

Audustum wrote:
Honestly, I feel this would fix them (and many of these ideas have been expressed previously in this thread which speaks to their obvious nature):

1. Inquisitors can be part of any Imperium detachment without destroying the faction bonus.

2. Inquisitors get 3 powers from their militant counterpart added to their base 3 powers (so Hereticus gets 3 Primaris Psyker powers, Malleus gets 3 Grey Knight powers and Xenos gets 3 Librarius powers).

3. Inquisitors confer their Ordo Trait on all models within 6" of the Inquisitor regardless of faction as long as those models are part of the Inquisitor's detachment (not army).

4. Monkeys gain <Character> keyword.

5. Monkeys can target any friendly unit within 3" of the model that has the <Infantry> keyword rather than <Ordo> keyword.

6. Daemonhosts that are within 3" of an Inquisitor may choose which power to manifest rather than decide randomly.

7. Daemonhosts gain the <Ordo> keyword.

8. Inquisitors gain 6 relics and can take 1 for free even if they are not the Warlord and are in a mixed detachment. The Inquisitor stratagem to take additional relics is, however, 1CP more at each level than other factions'.

9. The Inquisition receives its own unique stratagems that can be used as long as an Inquisitor is anywhere in your army and your army is battleforged.

10. Inquisitors gain access to their own Warlord traits.

Basically, the point is to make the Inquisition function like a swiss-army knife you can slot in to plug some gaps in your force.

You can even still do this while merging them into several armies as Codex: Agents of the Imperium (but I doubt you get Custodes given the main webpage lists them as separate and they're getting their own HQ).

I like a lot of these ideas. There are some nice Tweaks in there and I definitely agree with the changes to Daemonhosts and also the Techno Monkeys. The ideas regarding Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Relics are things I would think would be solved as a general matter of gaining a Codex. However, I think be able to take a Relic without being Warlord may be too much. I think the Inquisition should be required to be the Warlord if they are taken as part of an army. It simply wouldn't suit the fluff for them to be subordinate. Not destroying the Faction bonus is important and I think confering the Ordo <****> trait upon units within 3" is an excellent way to bring the rest of the army into the fold without granting an overwhelming bonus. It would also encourage bringing extra unnamed Inquisitors.

What do you think about;

1. Increasing the squad caps for Daemonhosts? Say 3 or 6 for the cap?
2. Bump Acolytes back up to 3 wounds, deferring to the Tactics thread discussion.

What about Crusaders and DCA? I don't see much use for either of them. Crusaders seem like they could use a bump to their strength scores but I'm not sure what to do with DCA. Just max out their squads?

I do not think relegating Inquisitors to HQ roles for the rest of the Imperium is helpful. I don't see that avenue as being functionally different from eliminating the Inquisition as a faction entirely. Not fixing the rest of the army and dealing with the fact it has been split up and shuffled around doesn't really solve any off the problems. A few people have mentioned the 3rd Edition Codex for Daemonhunters, with which I am woefully unfamiliar. So I ordered it off eBay and I may have a better sense for their history and traditional setup on the battlefield to guide me in this endeavor. I really like the ideas that are coming out of this discussion and I hope you'll all bear with me while I educate myself to better reconstruct a worthwhile army to play.

It's late. Tell me if I sound like a rambling fool...

Daemonhosts should be single model Characters. Even getting one properly (is there really a proper way?) requires a considerable amount of effort. But they should be powerful, as Daemonhosts usually house a herald or prince.

Hell, you could operate them on a risk/reward system. Give them several levels of daemonic restrictions that an Inquisitor can choose to remove during their turn in order to make them more powerful, but in doing so, worsen the fallout should the host be destroyed.

 corpuschain wrote:

I haven't read that book, but I do actually agree. At the time of creating the army, I had my own ideas. These have changed since learning more about the Inquisition. NO ONE questions an inquisitor's authority!

Except Dark Angels and some other Space Marine Chapters.

 Draco wrote:

 corpuschain wrote:

I haven't read that book, but I do actually agree. At the time of creating the army, I had my own ideas. These have changed since learning more about the Inquisition. NO ONE questions an inquisitor's authority!

Except Dark Angels and some other Space Marine Chapters.

So Chaos Marines and a few other chapters that just end up getting nuked from orbit.

It simply wouldn't suit the fluff for them to be subordinate

I'm not sure I agree with this, Inquisitors use the skills of others in order to further the Imperium's interests.

An Inquistitor might tell a Imperial Guard general or a Space Marine company master who to attack or what the objectives of the campaign are, but I think they would leave the prosecution of said campaign to the experts.

Inquisitor Drake didn't tell Macharius how to fight a battle of break down an defensive position for example, but he did sit on the council of generals which determined long term crusade strategy and objectives.

 Kroem wrote:

It simply wouldn't suit the fluff for them to be subordinate

I'm not sure I agree with this, Inquisitors use the skills of others in order to further the Imperium's interests.

An Inquistitor might tell a Imperial Guard general or a Space Marine company master who to attack or what the objectives of the campaign are, but I think they would leave the prosecution of said campaign to the experts.

Inquisitor Drake didn't tell Macharius how to fight a battle of break down an defensive position for example, but he did sit on the council of generals which determined long term crusade strategy and objectives.

Not relevant. You can commandeer the army without being foolish enough to assume direct command of the troops. You assume authority over the command structure as a whole. Regardless, ultimate authority would rest with the Inquisition.

Inquistion just needs more models to round it out. Give some options for puritans, merge the assassins in, add frater militia back. Done.

Inquisition as been my main army for years now and fixing it isn't that hard. It worked fine in 7th and was great when the index dropped.

It has more then enough diversity . Don't let the few entries in the index fool you their equipment options make them more diverse than most other small factions or popular army builds and their new ability to use any imp transport makes their army really unique.

What is lacking however is that they didn't get the update that they needed in chapter approved or the FAQ leaving them with over costed wargear and acolytes that where priced for 3 instead of 1 wound, and apes + daemon hosts that simply don't work.

This is how I would fix them:

-Ordo specific Strategems and relics (including daemon weapons and exotic xenos gear),
- Make QUARRY work as chapter tactics it should only work if your entire army is ordo (________)

-Reword their aquire transport rule so that they can also use a Land Speeder Storm disallow droppods
-their acquired transports acquire the ordo (_______) keyword,

-Give Inquisitors the option to buy a 3+sv
-Add a section of ordo specific wargear both for inquisitors and aqylotes.
-change the psyk out grenades so that they do something and make them optional equipment that you have to buy ( now they only work on a 6+)
-Add a 8" bubble of -2 to cast for all psykers friend or foe ability to the null rod, and make the wearer unable to cast powers or be the target of them

-Update their weapon costs

-Make the current acolytes troops lower their point costs to 5
-update their equipment list to bs 4 IG standards
-raise their minimum squad size to 5

- Make a new entry for elite acolytes representing the more exotic types
-Give each individual elite acolytes the option to choose between +1 WS +1 BS
-Give them the option to buy a 4+ or 3+ sv
- Update their weapon costs to modern bs 3 IG prices

-Bring back death cult assasins and crusaders and also give them ordo(______), quarry and transport rule

Bring back the agroflaggelants give hem the ordo hereticus the quarry and the transport rule.

-make the apes characters
-design a strategem for them that gives an ordo(_____) unit within range a random upgrade for the duration of the game.
give them ordo xenos and the transport rule

Raise their point cost slightly
-change their wounds to 5 and +1 attack
- Give them 6+ fnp
-Change their unoly gaze to be s4 assault 1d6 auto hitting wounding on ld and ap -4.
Change their daemon powers to
1: All psykers within 12" friend or foe suffer a perils of the warp.
2: keep the same (heal all lost wounds)
3: All units within 12" friend or foe get -2 ld for the turn
Give them the ordo malleus keyword, and the transport rule

To all those saying delete them: Please no. In 7th they were in a beautiful spot, with customization options that allowed you to make virtually anything you want (it should have gone even more in depth with customization for 8th instead of removing most (practically all) of their options.).

E.g. in 7th I used the Inq Codex to make an Arbites Squad -

3x Crusaders
3x Carapace Armour w/ Shotguns
3x Carapace Armour w/ Chainswords and Bolt Pistols
1x Carapace Armour w/ Meltagun

You can't do this anymore because the level of customization isn't there. Inquisition doesn't need to be deleted, just brought back to at least 7th standards if not even more so.