Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Demons are always cool, and I'm glad the Codex is first in 2018!

#makeslanneshgreatagain

 Elbows wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Personally I'm sad that they kicked the "Daemonic Animosity" stuff to the side and ruined the lore/fluff. Daemons are already lacking in depth, this ret-con doesn't help.

Since they where split in fantasy 6th edition with their own codex, they haven't had anything like that.

Correct. It's stupid.

Yup, with all of GWs tourny busting, I'm surprised Magnus and Morty BFF Smash Bros hasn't been nerfed down with an Ancient Enemies errata.

Pretty obvious the loci are going to be the "chapter Tactics" for the demons.

You will get bonus for marks, and you will get loci bonus's if the entire detachment is from the same mark.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
Yeah let's take complaining about models to a general discussion thread.

These new Locus look like they potentially bleed into Chaos Space Marine Deamon units, which will make taking a detachment of each much easier to do.

Unless they add a Faction Keyword for the Demon codex, you might not even have to take a Detachment of each. A Plagueburst Crawler is as much a Nurgle Demon as a Plaguebearer is.

PBC cannot be in a NURGLE DAEMONS detachment as it's DAEMON keyword is not a faction keyword, just a normal keyword. Same for all Death Guard and CSM daemonic units as far as I know. So if you want access to Daemon relics, strategems, warlord traits and loci you will need a separate Daemon detachment.

Sure you will, but that doesn't really detract from the appeal IMO.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Pretty obvious the loci are going to be the "chapter Tactics" for the demons.

You will get bonus for marks, and you will get loci bonus's if the entire detachment is from the same mark.

My understanding is that there's going to be a single <Chaos Daemons> chapter tactic and if you narrow yourself down even further to individual gods you will also get these loci as additional aura bonuses on your characters.

aye thats why there is faction keyword and normal keywords especially for that purpose.

Even if there was a loop hole the chances are GW will faq it anyway.

I'm not blown away by these daemon traits if i'm honest especially as they note the loci is only gonna be in effect if your detachment is 100% god aligned. Nurgle one is by far the best no surprise there nurgle is the chaos poster boy in 40k 8th like it seems Khorne is in AoS.

A big hope I have for the daemons codex is some kinda decent relic/strat that overrides normal summoning e.g. a portal type deep strike thing.

That Tzeentch Loci... is nuts.

 Zid wrote:
That Tzeentch Loci... is nuts.

It's kind of annoying, but that's about it. Most Tzeentch units are bad enough in CC that it won't make for a big shift.
The exceptions (like lords of change) are going to be something of a problem, but you can just shoot those. Amusingly, spamming cheap, poor CC units is the best thing to do against Locus influenced Tzeentch units.

Elite marines are likely to be affected the most, but mostly it's about throwing as many attacks as possible and not caring.


Truthfully, I dislike it for the unnecessary die rolls and die manipulations that waste time.

I don't think the point is to make Tzeentch units 'better' in HtH. What the loci does is make them more durable in HtH, which is always a good feature in bubble wrap. The loci is what, a 20-25% debuff on elite HtH stuff most turns? That's nothing to sneeze at.

I wonder if the Tzeentch Loci will be useful for units like Warp Talons and Posssesed.

I remember the halcyon days when a Codex getting updated did not include people figuring how best to ally cheese the crap out of it. Been far too long.

 dan2026 wrote:
I wonder if the Tzeentch Loci will be useful for units like Warp Talons and Posssesed.

Don't know about Tzeentch, but it'll be pretty nice on Slaanesh possessed as they benefit from the advance and charge, and then can get FNP from a sorc.

Tzeentch possessed + changeling + Loci could get pretty hard to hit though.

Glad to see new Artwork for Daemons. ALl the Slannesh pics too only show plastic kits... hopefully the Finecast ones are out of here and replacements are soon on the way.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
I wonder if the Tzeentch Loci will be useful for units like Warp Talons and Posssesed.

Don't know about Tzeentch, but it'll be pretty nice on Slaanesh possessed as they benefit from the advance and charge, and then can get FNP from a sorc.

Tzeentch possessed + changeling + Loci could get pretty hard to hit though.

The Changeling seems to reduce the odds of the Loci being able to have an effect, so I see it as one or the other personally.

Ie: Say some Marines get into combat with you. For argument say you are in range of the Changeling and roll a 3 for the Loci. This means that while the Loci makes the natural 3 miss, however it was still going to miss due to the Changeling's -1 to hit. You have a 75% chance of rolling a 3 or lower, so the odds aren't great that the Loci will have an effect if paired with the Changeling.

Assuming the Changeling doesn't, heh, change with the codex anyway. Barring that I'd agree though, not great synergy there. Maybe better against 2+ guys though, double the chances of getting a useful number.

Will this be the first daemon release in 40k/AoS(including WHFB) since early 2000s to not totally destroy the game and make daemons the most obnoxious bullgak since the LAST daemon release?!!?!?

FIND OUT NEXT TIME ON DRAGONBALL Z!

 Fenris-77 wrote:
I don't think the point is to make Tzeentch units 'better' in HtH. What the loci does is make them more durable in HtH, which is always a good feature in bubble wrap. The loci is what, a 20-25% debuff on elite HtH stuff most turns? That's nothing to sneeze at.

Which is pretty unfortunate considering "elite marine" armies are absolutely terrible in 8th. The best armies just spam cheap units so this just feels like yet another meaningless kick to WS 2/3+ assault units.

End of 18 for Slaneesh in AoS with a new Keeper of Secrets

ERJAK wrote:
make daemons the most obnoxious bullgak since the LAST daemon release?!!?!?

What are Eldar and/or Tau for 100, 200, 300, and 400?

I'm not sure how the tzeentch locus works.

So I roll 2 dice, and get a 4 and a 5. I discard the 5. Does that mean every hit roll against a tzeentch unit in the locus's range of a 4 is now a miss?
Sounds like an interesting mechanic. Seems to be more punishing against enemies with a low hit chance, as all you have to do is roll a 5 or a 6 and then their chance to hit drops considerably.

 Irbis wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
make daemons the most obnoxious bullgak since the LAST daemon release?!!?!?

What are Eldar and/or Tau for 100, 200, 300, and 400?

Eldar already have their book, and that small insignificant Xenos race is probably having fun being sandwiched between Bugs, Chaos and Necrons.

But seriously, 2017/18 is probably going to be mostly Chaos and Imperial, the guys the story is revolving around. I dont expect new models for Xenos anytime soon, personally. But who knows?

The Tzeentch locus is really weak which makes me think they might have a powerful strategem that boosts it to the highest dice or both dice.

The nurgle one also works for shooting. Could be pretty good on a soul crusher, defiler, or possessed

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure how the tzeentch locus works.

So I roll 2 dice, and get a 4 and a 5. I discard the 5. Does that mean every hit roll against a tzeentch unit in the locus's range of a 4 is now a miss?
Sounds like an interesting mechanic. Seems to be more punishing against enemies with a low hit chance, as all you have to do is roll a 5 or a 6 and then their chance to hit drops considerably.

On your case every roll of 4 would fail.

It's actually fairly weak. You generally hit on 3+ or 4+. For 4+ guys odds of not rolling 1, 2 or 3 on 2 dice is pretty low. On 3+ hit guy you need to not roll 1 or 2 for either dice to have ANY effect(odds of that is about 45%). Changeling's -1 to hit buff is also less effective with this. And works in h2h only.

Whilst I like the idea from the loci and the detachment requirements, does anyone else feel like this almost dissuaded you from either going multi god, or over encouraging min-maxing on the detachments?

If you wanted all the perks other army's get via chapter traits etc you're having to spam multiple patrols potentially and be short on cp

Dudeface wrote:
Whilst I like the idea from the loci and the detachment requirements, does anyone else feel like this almost dissuaded you from either going multi god, or over encouraging min-maxing on the detachments?

If you wanted all the perks other army's get via chapter traits etc you're having to spam multiple patrols potentially and be short on cp

We don't know all the perks yet. It's too early to assume anything.

tneva82 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure how the tzeentch locus works.

So I roll 2 dice, and get a 4 and a 5. I discard the 5. Does that mean every hit roll against a tzeentch unit in the locus's range of a 4 is now a miss?
Sounds like an interesting mechanic. Seems to be more punishing against enemies with a low hit chance, as all you have to do is roll a 5 or a 6 and then their chance to hit drops considerably.

On your case every roll of 4 would fail.

It's actually fairly weak. You generally hit on 3+ or 4+. For 4+ guys odds of not rolling 1, 2 or 3 on 2 dice is pretty low. On 3+ hit guy you need to not roll 1 or 2 for either dice to have ANY effect(odds of that is about 45%). Changeling's -1 to hit buff is also less effective with this. And works in h2h only.

Yeah, it does seem pretty unreliable. I can see it potentially being effective against guys that have like a 33% chance to a 50% chance to hit, but you still have to roll the right dice for it.
They made a point of "as long as you don't roll a one you can mitigate a lot of damage", but its more "as long as you don't roll less than 4 you might be able to do something with it, as most units hit on a 4+ anyway."

Everyone that thinks this ability is OP has not looked at the math for it.

You have a 20/36 chance of getting a 1 or a 2, making the ability almost totally worthless nearly 2/3 of the time.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Demons are always cool, and I'm glad the Codex is first in 2018!

#makeslanneshgreatagain

We need fzorgle to be great again.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
make daemons the most obnoxious bullgak since the LAST daemon release?!!?!?

What are Eldar and/or Tau for 100, 200, 300, and 400?

Eldar already have their book, and that small insignificant Xenos race is probably having fun being sandwiched between Bugs, Chaos and Necrons.

But seriously, 2017/18 is probably going to be mostly Chaos and Imperial, the guys the story is revolving around. I dont expect new models for Xenos anytime soon, personally. But who knows?

An Eldar model was teased in a GW rumor. That or it’s a dead Eldar on a base. Lady Atia has said earlier in 2017 a big Tau update is coming. Her rumors tend to be more long range. So if it’s going to come true this is the prime year. As far as I can tell none of her rumors that came true have been longer than a year give or take a few months. Your really betting against the best rumor person around?

If you really want to go against the official GW tease being an Eldar model then it’s one heck of a long bet. I know my Eldar well. Even correctly guessing the one ynari Eldar who came from the dark Eldar. Granted I thought she would be a new de model so only partially correct.