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I'd have been happy with a stratagem that prevents people from falling back or with fiends getting a pts decrease they are a massive pts sink at 46 pts.

I would rather have had the tzeentch units have been the exact same as the index but been cheaper than this.

So slimux its the same than in Aos. Also we still without knowing about the other heralds, and great unclean ones thanks for the information

 Cephalobeard wrote:
The Doomsayer is absurd. Things absolutely have a place, and I don't mind the trade off for the point increase on Exalteds. Three attacks so so good.

Chariots even seem great, especially for 120.

I'm stoked.

Me too! I feel like I can play those chariots now!

I'm cool with the EFlamers... but, the gems seems to be the plain flamers and the fact that some unit's shooting str went from fixed value to S: value. (Herald + Boone of flame + other possible goodies!).

Fret not ya'll!

Doomsaying for Slaanesh seems to be about proper though. Still nothing new for us daemonwise and nothing changed about things is disheartening.

Really sad we got no info about Soul Grinders - our only artillery. I guess that means it is still horrible. Same with skullcannon. Crap.
We NEED something to shoot with long range. I don't want to ally with CSM for that :/

EIther way, the current simple strat seems to be drop flamers turn one to kill the screen. Drop Bloodletters turn 2 to kill everything else.

xxhikaru123 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
xxhikaru123, would you be able to give any info about the new Great Unclean One and Horticulous Slimux?

Horty WS2. T6 7 wounds ( i think). 4A.. 4+
melee S+1 -3 D3 reroll fail wounds
1 time use attack S7 -4 3 dmg

D6 , 4+ D3 mw if you fallback from him (1inch bubble).

reroll fail charge for beasts in 6 inch. add 1 to hit for beasts.

start of turn, if any model friend or foe slain during last turn. 1 nurgle daemon model within 7 inch of mr snail gains 1 lost wound.

ends of movement phase, plant a tree but forgo daemonic ritual. set up within 3 inch of him but 1 inch away from any other model or terrain feature.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
there are alot of small and obscure synergies with CSM and DG book, all daemon engines obliterators etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Klor wrote:
So, everyone is asking these important questions about all of the different pricing and units, etc. If you get the chance, can you answer about the Feculent Gnarlmaw. Do you think it's worth it to own from the rules standpoint? You don't have to tell me what it does, just curious if I should be pre-ordering it for more than just terrain.

Yes. 50 points only. but good for mono nurgle army.

Thanks so much for this. Mr Snail seems like he does a lot of little things rather than one big thing. I assume you have to pay reserve points for the trees? If Mr Snail isn't too expensive, hopefully he + 2 trees are worth taking in a list.

it's 120, not 140, my fault

 Virules wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
xxhikaru123, would you be able to give any info about the new Great Unclean One and Horticulous Slimux?

Horty WS2. T6 7 wounds ( i think). 4A.. 4+
melee S+1 -3 D3 reroll fail wounds
1 time use attack S7 -4 3 dmg

D6 , 4+ D3 mw if you fallback from him (1inch bubble).

reroll fail charge for beasts in 6 inch. add 1 to hit for beasts.

start of turn, if any model friend or foe slain during last turn. 1 nurgle daemon model within 7 inch of mr snail gains 1 lost wound.

ends of movement phase, plant a tree but forgo daemonic ritual. set up within 3 inch of him but 1 inch away from any other model or terrain feature.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
there are alot of small and obscure synergies with CSM and DG book, all daemon engines obliterators etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Klor wrote:
So, everyone is asking these important questions about all of the different pricing and units, etc. If you get the chance, can you answer about the Feculent Gnarlmaw. Do you think it's worth it to own from the rules standpoint? You don't have to tell me what it does, just curious if I should be pre-ordering it for more than just terrain.

Yes. 50 points only. but good for mono nurgle army.

Thanks so much for this. Mr Snail seems like he does a lot of little things rather than one big thing. I assume you have to pay reserve points for the trees? If Mr Snail isn't too expensive, hopefully he + 2 trees are worth taking in a list.

He seems quite good, depending how many points he costs. I'm curious as to what the trees actually do themselves. I'm hoping Warhammer Community give a sneak peak in the Nurgle Daemon Faction Focus

Hikaru, is there any change to horrors beyond the invul nerf and the Suser shots?

Giving the small horrors guns? Changes to split?
Anything that makes non-pink horrors not suck?

So much positive changes and all-round goodstuff, yet there's so much focus on 1 or 2 cheese units in this topic. It's depressing, really.

The Nurgle stuff looks great, definetly giving that a go!

Sedraxis wrote:
So much positive changes and all-round goodstuff, yet there's so much focus on 1 or 2 cheese units in this topic. It's depressing, really.

The Nurgle stuff looks great, definetly giving that a go!

Ya that's why I stopped sharing. If I think it was even bad , I wouldn't have been excited to share. lol

Because I have these units, using them to screen for my thousand sons, and I DON'T have pinks?
I'm hoping for a silver lining I'm still unaware of to salvage them. They were too good, true, but now like conscripts they got hit with overnerf.

The flamer buff is awesome and I love it
I don't quite understand what changed with the blue scribes
And the changling nerf is a bit sad, but understandable.

And that sums the daemons I've got.

Its just that I have dozens of small horrors, who currently look like they are becoming nonviable picks,and I'm really hoping I'm missing something, anything, to make them worthwhile.

xxhikaru123 wrote:

Sedraxis wrote:
So much positive changes and all-round goodstuff, yet there's so much focus on 1 or 2 cheese units in this topic. It's depressing, really.

The Nurgle stuff looks great, definetly giving that a go!

Ya that's why I stopped sharing. If I think it was even bad , I wouldn't have been excited to share. lol

Too many people have been over relying on the more unbalanced units, so there are people with dozens of brimstones and exalted flamers who have been used to them being hyper efficient. With them now costing more/being less unbalanced in some cases, they're going to have to reconfigure their lists.

It's no fault of yours people think the way they do and I'm sorry you've been dissuaded from posting the changes. Sometimes people need to realise that the overly good units will be balanced out and plan accordingly.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Because I have these units, using them to screen for my thousand sons, and I DON'T have pinks?
I'm hoping for a silver lining I'm still unaware of to salvage them. They were too good, true, but now like conscripts they got hit with overnerf.

The flamer buff is awesome and I love it
I don't quite understand what changed with the blue scribes
And the changling nerf is a bit sad, but understandable.

And that sums the daemons I've got.

Its just that I have dozens of small horrors, who currently look like they are becoming nonviable picks,and I'm really hoping I'm missing something, anything, to make them worthwhile.

lol if you buy into those few daemons just for their OPness then, you can literally shelf them or use them as points filler. that's about it

Dudeface wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:

Sedraxis wrote:
So much positive changes and all-round goodstuff, yet there's so much focus on 1 or 2 cheese units in this topic. It's depressing, really.

The Nurgle stuff looks great, definetly giving that a go!

Ya that's why I stopped sharing. If I think it was even bad , I wouldn't have been excited to share. lol

Too many people have been over relying on the more unbalanced units, so there are people with dozens of brimstones and exalted flamers who have been used to them being hyper efficient. With them now costing more/being less unbalanced in some cases, they're going to have to reconfigure their lists.

It's no fault of yours people think the way they do and I'm sorry you've been dissuaded from posting the changes. Sometimes people need to realise that the overly good units will be balanced out and plan accordingly.

Ya. In any game, if something sounds to good to be true, don't buy more than you need.
I've got friends with 5 Stormravens who look silly complaining they can't run them.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I don't quite understand what changed with the blue scribes

The Index version of the Blue Scribes would cast the power that it siphoned. Ie: If it siphoned warp time then it would cast warp time next turn. The Codex version the Blue Scribes instead casts smite for each siphoned power. Ie: If you siphoned two powers, you would then manifest 2 smites.

The interesting thing is how this interacts with the Beta Psychic Focus. It appears to me that each power siphoned and automatic smite cast would count towards the reduction of the psychic test for other attempted manifestations.

xxhikaru123 wrote:

Sedraxis wrote:
So much positive changes and all-round goodstuff, yet there's so much focus on 1 or 2 cheese units in this topic. It's depressing, really.

The Nurgle stuff looks great, definetly giving that a go!

Ya that's why I stopped sharing. If I think it was even bad , I wouldn't have been excited to share. lol

The fact that you got excited about it is a good sign, I can't wait to get my hands on it!

What is your favorite thing about it?

The whole snaildude planting plague trees thing looks awesome, maybe I should pick up Blightwar after all

He's like a twisted Johnny appleseed I like it.

I just wanna know if the throne of khorne and skull cannon changed any.

xxhikaru123 ignore complaints and please make the demon players happy.


Now you are the fifith chaos god.



Cant you tell us what the new heralds or the great unclean ones do ?

thanks

JakeSiren wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I don't quite understand what changed with the blue scribes

The Index version of the Blue Scribes would cast the power that it siphoned. Ie: If it siphoned warp time then it would cast warp time next turn. The Codex version the Blue Scribes instead casts smite for each siphoned power. Ie: If you siphoned two powers, you would then manifest 2 smites.

The interesting thing is how this interacts with the Beta Psychic Focus. It appears to me that each power siphoned and automatic smite cast would count towards the reduction of the psychic test for other attempted manifestations.

Just cast the blue scribes last. I will run a blue scribe in my tzeentch lists now. He also lowers the cast of opposing psykers, increasingly valuable.

Btw I am considering all these from a competitive to top tier competitive pov.

Neronoxx wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:

Sedraxis wrote:
So much positive changes and all-round goodstuff, yet there's so much focus on 1 or 2 cheese units in this topic. It's depressing, really.

The Nurgle stuff looks great, definetly giving that a go!

Ya that's why I stopped sharing. If I think it was even bad , I wouldn't have been excited to share. lol

Too many people have been over relying on the more unbalanced units, so there are people with dozens of brimstones and exalted flamers who have been used to them being hyper efficient. With them now costing more/being less unbalanced in some cases, they're going to have to reconfigure their lists.

It's no fault of yours people think the way they do and I'm sorry you've been dissuaded from posting the changes. Sometimes people need to realise that the overly good units will be balanced out and plan accordingly.

Ya. In any game, if something sounds to good to be true, don't buy more than you need.
I've got friends with 5 Stormravens who look silly complaining they can't run them.

Then again with GW's random "balancing" you can never be sure what gets nerfed and what gets boosted. They could have even been buffed up rather than overnerfed. And of course silly somebody for hoping that if they get nerfed they get nerfed REASONABLY and not overnerfed ala conscripts that now might just as well be 0-1 unit for valhallans only.

The issue with the named Heralds--even if they're decent--is having to double down on aura HQs to get them, since they don't maintain the +S aura for some reason, which now seems like it'll be practically mandatory.

Not sure why that's the case; it's not like named characters in other books don't keep their "base" abilities (i.e. a named SM Captain still has the reroll aura, plus special stuff. The Swarmlord still has Synapse and SitW, plus special stuff.) The named Daemon Heralds lose their basic aura, so you've gotta take two characters to do what should be one job.

And unless the Blue Scribes aura got larger (it was previously 12"), it's not going to affect any competitive games. He's not exactly embedded in the enemy backfield, and people tend to not hang out in -Psychic auras they can easily walk out of.

No word on skull cannons or blood crushers eh? Guess they'll get a nice dusting on my shelf then. O.o

So, based on what has been revealed so far, one could deepstrike a Kytan or Brass Scorpion for 2CP? That sounds fun.

tneva82 wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:

Sedraxis wrote:
So much positive changes and all-round goodstuff, yet there's so much focus on 1 or 2 cheese units in this topic. It's depressing, really.

The Nurgle stuff looks great, definetly giving that a go!

Ya that's why I stopped sharing. If I think it was even bad , I wouldn't have been excited to share. lol

Too many people have been over relying on the more unbalanced units, so there are people with dozens of brimstones and exalted flamers who have been used to them being hyper efficient. With them now costing more/being less unbalanced in some cases, they're going to have to reconfigure their lists.

It's no fault of yours people think the way they do and I'm sorry you've been dissuaded from posting the changes. Sometimes people need to realise that the overly good units will be balanced out and plan accordingly.

Ya. In any game, if something sounds to good to be true, don't buy more than you need.
I've got friends with 5 Stormravens who look silly complaining they can't run them.

Then again with GW's random "balancing" you can never be sure what gets nerfed and what gets boosted. They could have even been buffed up rather than overnerfed. And of course silly somebody for hoping that if they get nerfed they get nerfed REASONABLY and not overnerfed ala conscripts that now might just as well be 0-1 unit for valhallans only.

If people are taking 60+ brimstones it's not for fluff or hopes of a balanced entry, it's to game an advantage (which is fine in some circles and I haven't anything against it in concept). So these people need to have reasonable understanding that the meta and balance will shift.

I'm keen to see if the skull cannon has any buffs it's a touch lacklustre atm.

Brimstones are not overnerfed by this. They have a lot of value in mixed units of pink-blue-brimstone horrors.
They are no longer excellent screens by themselves, but all the "excellent screens" in the game have been nerfed, they were too prevalent.

That said, T3 6++ at 3 points is still a good screen.

Dudeface wrote:
If people are taking 60+ brimstones it's not for fluff or hopes of a balanced entry, it's to game an advantage (which is fine in some circles and I haven't anything against it in concept). So these people need to have reasonable understanding that the meta and balance will shift.

I'm keen to see if the skull cannon has any buffs it's a touch lacklustre atm.

Except GW being GW they could have given them price drop and some new fancy beneficitial bespoken rule. Aaaaand of course they could have made them balanced option which means using 60+ brimstones would still be viable option rather than nerfed out of existance.

You DO know balanced means it's worth taking, not that previously broken units have no more place to be fielded? It's not balanced if they are now nerfed to death. Conscripts at the moment are NOT balanced. Apart from valhallans only idiots takes them now outside power level/narrative/open games. This is NOT balanced no matter how some people think it's correct to nerf unit to death because they were too good before. That's not people wanting balance but people wanting REVEEEEENGE! It's kindergarden attitude.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
So, based on what has been revealed so far, one could deepstrike a Kytan or Brass Scorpion for 2CP? That sounds fun.

So, if you can deepstrike your Kytan, that means I can deep strike my Lord of Skulls? lol Seriously?

xxhikaru123 wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I don't quite understand what changed with the blue scribes

The Index version of the Blue Scribes would cast the power that it siphoned. Ie: If it siphoned warp time then it would cast warp time next turn. The Codex version the Blue Scribes instead casts smite for each siphoned power. Ie: If you siphoned two powers, you would then manifest 2 smites.

The interesting thing is how this interacts with the Beta Psychic Focus. It appears to me that each power siphoned and automatic smite cast would count towards the reduction of the psychic test for other attempted manifestations.

Just cast the blue scribes last. I will run a blue scribe in my tzeentch lists now. He also lowers the cast of opposing psykers, increasingly valuable.

Btw I am considering all these from a competitive to top tier competitive pov.

From a RAW perspective how do you handle the situation where you have cast a Tzeentch power then have the blue scribes roll the same random power in matched play? I don't disagree with your suggestion tactics wise, it just seems to me that the rules should (but don't) make the Blue Scribes go first to avoid issues with Psychic Focus.