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zamerion wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
@Zamerion Nice to see you missed advance and charge...........

I didnt miss it. Thanks.

One rule that is good for plaguebearers, and 3 for obliterators.

I want a book for daemons. Not a book to do better chaos space marines.

The final sentence is an entirely fair and valid one, I'm sure every Daemon player can agree with.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Klor wrote:
Can someone explain the wording of "Can add a new Feculent Gnarlmaw to your army (containing 1 Feculent Gnarlmaw)"? What does that even mean? As long as the tree was paid for, you can plant it on the table? Or you have to have had one tree already and this lets you plant another (obviously with reserved points). It's odd wording to say the least.

You summon 1 tree, basically. Think of it that way.

So it sounds like having more than one tree would not be worth it from a consumer perspective? Unless you just want to fill a table with them for ruleless scenery?

 Klor wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Klor wrote:
Can someone explain the wording of "Can add a new Feculent Gnarlmaw to your army (containing 1 Feculent Gnarlmaw)"? What does that even mean? As long as the tree was paid for, you can plant it on the table? Or you have to have had one tree already and this lets you plant another (obviously with reserved points). It's odd wording to say the least.

You summon 1 tree, basically. Think of it that way.

So it sounds like having more than one tree would not be worth it from a consumer perspective? Unless you just want to fill a table with them for ruleless scenery?

Well, let's say you have 2 or 3. You can set them up directly at the border of one another, and create a conga-line of increase cover saves, and advance/charge.

Daemon Princes, Plaguebearers, etc, all sorts of possible things you could do.

I'm not certain it will be a standard, but it will be an interesting option available to people.

For 50 points it seems pretty auto include at the end of the day. One on the edge of your deployment zone granting increased cover saves on your already tough to remove Nurgle deamons seems like a no brainer.

Plus giving plague drones advance and charge is huge.

Well that's good. As I've preordered it :p

Anywho, I just want Chaos, Imperium keywords banned from competitive play(and "ally factions" like assassins getting some sort of "ally" keyword)

I could definitely see those trees providing fun synergy depending on keyword requirements! Either deep strike (if it works based on keywords) or alpha legion infiltrate a unit of possessed in. Deep strike the snail rider and pop out a tree. Bam! 1+ armor on 2 wound possessed that can advance and charge

Clearly a CSM or Death Gaurd combo, but still would be fun!

Read the rules clearly. The unit has to start the turn within range of the tree, so summoning one in beside a unit will not allow that unit to advance and charge until next turn.

If it is a fortification and it has a datasheet it means that it is likely attackable. We have to see how sturdy it is.

Spoletta wrote:
If it is a fortification and it has a datasheet it means that it is likely attackable. We have to see how sturdy it is.

T6 W4. Calling it now.

Spoletta wrote:
If it is a fortification and it has a datasheet it means that it is likely attackable. We have to see how sturdy it is.

*fires the xxhikaru123 flare*

I don't see how the tree's cover bonus helps demons. +2 to a unit with no save gives them a 5+ armor save. But demons already have a 5+ invul save. Or do demons get a 6+ armor save now, which would become a 4+ armor save?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't see how the tree's cover bonus helps demons. +2 to a unit with no save gives them a 5+ armor save. But demons already have a 5+ invul save. Or do demons get a 6+ armor save now, which would become a 4+ armor save?

Have 6+ armor save.

zamerion wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't see how the tree's cover bonus helps demons. +2 to a unit with no save gives them a 5+ armor save. But demons already have a 5+ invul save. Or do demons get a 6+ armor save now, which would become a 4+ armor save?

Have 6+ armor save.

Huh, do they now? Now it makes sense.

Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

I wonder if there's any value to Alpha Legion Nurgle Obliterators deep striking within 7" of a Nurgle Tree. -1 to hit and 2+ save with 2+ cover out in the open, plus with a nurgle daemon character nearby they add 1 to the damage roll on to wound rolls of 6. With a GUO one with a bell nearby, the obliterators can regain lost models on a 4+ each turn.

Granted, it's a lot of points for somewhat limited offense, but it would be nice if there's finally a way to make Nurgle Obliterators decent. I've been annoyed the past half year that everyone talks up Tzeentch and Slaanesh Obliterators, but my 6 were painstakingly converted to Nurgle without any reason to field them.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

Mauler Fiends / Defilers may be effective with this?

 whembly wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

Mauler Fiends / Defilers may be effective with this?

No vehicles or monsters sorry jeje.

How about adding +1 invul save to a squad of 3 Myphetic Blighthaulers? And then casting either version of miasma of pestilence on them? Suddenly it's a lot harder to budge those little vehicles granting all the infantry +1 to cover.

 Virules wrote:
How about adding +1 invul save to a squad of 3 Myphetic Blighthaulers? And then casting either version of miasma of pestilence on them? Suddenly it's a lot harder to budge those little vehicles granting all the infantry +1 to cover.

And near to a GUO with bell

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

Except it explicitly states that monsters and vehicles can't benefit from it.
It also says that it affects only nurgle demons. Are CSM vehicles nurgle demons? GW thought it through. You aren't getting cheese that easily.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

Except the tree explicitly states that monsters and vehicles can't benefit from it.
It also says that it affects only nurgle demons. Are CSM vehicles nurgle demons?

You're confused. The +1 invul save is a stratagem. The +2 to cover save is on the tree, and that's what doesn't apply to vehicles or monsters.

 Virules wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

Except the tree explicitly states that monsters and vehicles can't benefit from it.
It also says that it affects only nurgle demons. Are CSM vehicles nurgle demons?

You're confused. The +1 invul save is a stratagem. The +2 to cover save is on the tree, and that's what doesn't apply to vehicles or monsters.

Would still be useful for a variety of CSM units. Such as Possessed, Obiliterators and Warp Talons.

 Virules wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

Except the tree explicitly states that monsters and vehicles can't benefit from it.
It also says that it affects only nurgle demons. Are CSM vehicles nurgle demons?

You're confused. The +1 invul save is a stratagem. The +2 to cover save is on the tree, and that's what doesn't apply to vehicles or monsters.

I know that. Having 1+ save is not the same as +1 to save
If the tree could affect vehicles, then you would have 1+ save demon engines.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Virules wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

Except the tree explicitly states that monsters and vehicles can't benefit from it.
It also says that it affects only nurgle demons. Are CSM vehicles nurgle demons?

You're confused. The +1 invul save is a stratagem. The +2 to cover save is on the tree, and that's what doesn't apply to vehicles or monsters.

I know that. Having 1+ save is not the same as +1 to save
If the tree could affect vehicles, then you would have 1+ save demon engines.

You can't go above a 2+ save. A 1 is always a failure...

 Klor wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Virules wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

Except the tree explicitly states that monsters and vehicles can't benefit from it.
It also says that it affects only nurgle demons. Are CSM vehicles nurgle demons?

You're confused. The +1 invul save is a stratagem. The +2 to cover save is on the tree, and that's what doesn't apply to vehicles or monsters.

I know that. Having 1+ save is not the same as +1 to save
If the tree could affect vehicles, then you would have 1+ save demon engines.

You can't go above a 2+ save. A 1 is always a failure...

Except when factoring in modifiers, no? I know that a roll of 1 always fails. I played Warhammer Fantasy. The "new" armor mod system they have is basically from WHFB, complete with stacking armor saves.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

zamerion wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
@Zamerion Nice to see you missed advance and charge...........

I didnt miss it. Thanks.

One rule that is good for plaguebearers, and 3 for obliterators.

I want a book for daemons. Not a book to do better chaos space marines.

The final sentence is an entirely fair and valid one, I'm sure every Daemon player can agree with.

Not every daemon player, no. To me, the idea of being a "daemon player" is a modern concept, I was a "Chaos player" then the codexes got split. If Chaos is going soup like Imperium, then that's fine by me, all I need is a good range of accessible beast men and I'll come over all 2nd edition.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Klor wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Virules wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

Except the tree explicitly states that monsters and vehicles can't benefit from it.
It also says that it affects only nurgle demons. Are CSM vehicles nurgle demons?

You're confused. The +1 invul save is a stratagem. The +2 to cover save is on the tree, and that's what doesn't apply to vehicles or monsters.

I know that. Having 1+ save is not the same as +1 to save
If the tree could affect vehicles, then you would have 1+ save demon engines.

You can't go above a 2+ save. A 1 is always a failure...

Except when factoring in modifiers, no? I know that a roll of 1 always fails. I played Warhammer Fantasy. The "new" armor mod system they have is basically from WHFB, complete with stacking armor saves.

Even with modifiers, a 1 is a failure. Otherwise, a +1 to hit on a 2+ model would never fail. Same goes with armor saves.

 Klor wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Klor wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Virules wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still the main benefit is for csm.

Can I have a 1+ save daemon engine please?

Except the tree explicitly states that monsters and vehicles can't benefit from it.
It also says that it affects only nurgle demons. Are CSM vehicles nurgle demons?

You're confused. The +1 invul save is a stratagem. The +2 to cover save is on the tree, and that's what doesn't apply to vehicles or monsters.

I know that. Having 1+ save is not the same as +1 to save
If the tree could affect vehicles, then you would have 1+ save demon engines.

You can't go above a 2+ save. A 1 is always a failure...

Except when factoring in modifiers, no? I know that a roll of 1 always fails. I played Warhammer Fantasy. The "new" armor mod system they have is basically from WHFB, complete with stacking armor saves.

Even with modifiers, a 1 is a failure. Otherwise, a +1 to hit on a 2+ model would never fail. Same goes with armor saves.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. A 1+ save still fails on a 1, its just that it takes a -2 mod to effectively change its save. That's what I meant by factoring in modifiers.

So slaanesh will be the final "preview" tomorrow. Anyone else feel they are leaving the worst for last?

I really hope slaanesh gets some sweet sweet stuff, but from all the leaks and stuff we have seen it doesn't look like it will happen. :(

And I agree, chaos is chaos, the fact that we are stuck in two books now instead of one won't change that fact to me. I have always used chaos marines and deamons together, and nothing in 8th has changed my feelings on it. Still, I would love a great deamon codex, and I would not even be upset if many of these new stratagems don't work on chaos marine stuff. Last thing I want is for deep striking Morty, that's op and not needed.