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I totally want deep striking Morty. The amount of hyper-effective shooting from the top codexes (IG and Eldar, and to a lesser extent Tyranids) to kill big targets is nuts. 30+ Dark Reaper armies, shoot-twice IG gunlines rerolling to hit and to wound with Relic of Lost Cadia and orders, Gullieman and 4 Devastator squads with lascannons, etc. I know my friends with competitive tournament armies from shooty codexes reliably shoot 1 daemon primarch off the board per turn, without having to worry too much about balancing more of their points into melee units or screens.Deep Striking daemon primarchs at the cost of 2 CPs and the risk of not making the charge will discourage all-in alpha strike all-shooting armies that are all the rage.

With the insanity this codex is going to unleash, I think we can now fully see why Reece and Frontline Gaming have consistently pushed bois, scouts, cultists, and any other chaff units. If you do not screen or establish board control to deny the enemy deep strike space or flanking opportunities, you will be annihilated. If you do not rely on character units behind these screens that cannot be targeted, you will be picked apart. This codex is a huge wake up call for all-in armies: welcome to 2018, here's a primarch in your face.

All I wanted was to run Kairos and some Lords of Change. If they force my hand and make me Deep Strike Magnus/Morty instead, then GW guided my hand by not actively changing the other units enough to be viable.

Lol

 andysonic1 wrote:
With the insanity this codex is going to unleash, I think we can now fully see why Reece and Frontline Gaming have consistently pushed bois, scouts, cultists, and any other chaff units. If you do not screen or establish board control to deny the enemy deep strike space or flanking opportunities, you will be annihilated. If you do not rely on character units behind these screens that cannot be targeted, you will be picked apart. This codex is a huge wake up call for all-in armies: welcome to 2018, here's a primarch in your face.

I think Tyranids already forced that reality, but too many armies are still gambling that they can get away without much screening or melee because so many armies have primarchs they can just shoot off the table.

Azuza001 wrote:
So slaanesh will be the final "preview" tomorrow. Anyone else feel they are leaving the worst for last?

I really hope slaanesh gets some sweet sweet stuff, but from all the leaks and stuff we have seen it doesn't look like it will happen. :(

And I agree, chaos is chaos, the fact that we are stuck in two books now instead of one won't change that fact to me. I have always used chaos marines and deamons together, and nothing in 8th has changed my feelings on it. Still, I would love a great deamon codex, and I would not even be upset if many of these new stratagems don't work on chaos marine stuff. Last thing I want is for deep striking Morty, that's op and not needed.

Slaanesh have been the red headed step child for awhile now. I dont expect any different.

 Virules wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
With the insanity this codex is going to unleash, I think we can now fully see why Reece and Frontline Gaming have consistently pushed bois, scouts, cultists, and any other chaff units. If you do not screen or establish board control to deny the enemy deep strike space or flanking opportunities, you will be annihilated. If you do not rely on character units behind these screens that cannot be targeted, you will be picked apart. This codex is a huge wake up call for all-in armies: welcome to 2018, here's a primarch in your face.

I think Tyranids already forced that reality, but too many armies are still gambling that they can get away without much screening or melee because so many armies have primarchs they can just shoot off the table.

True that nids caused a shift, but still Deamon, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons armies were relying on single or double big monsters that had to slog up the board under fire which helped to balance their power. Now you can just drop in as you see fit. This is going to cause a stir, and the first big tournament is the LVO in just a few weeks that will allow this codex. I imagine people are going to be scrambling to remake their lists to counter potential Deamon Primarchs barreling out of the warp at them at full strength.

 andysonic1 wrote:
True that nids caused a shift, but still Deamon, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons armies were relying on single or double big monsters that had to slog up the board under fire which helped to balance their power. Now you can just drop in as you see fit. This is going to cause a stir, and the first big tournament is the LVO in just a few weeks that will allow this codex. I imagine people are going to be scrambling to remake their lists to counter potential Deamon Primarchs barreling out of the warp at them at full strength.

Isn't the stratagem possibly for Undivided only? I doubt Magnus, Morty, etc will be allowed an Undivided mark since it's baked in.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
True that nids caused a shift, but still Deamon, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons armies were relying on single or double big monsters that had to slog up the board under fire which helped to balance their power. Now you can just drop in as you see fit. This is going to cause a stir, and the first big tournament is the LVO in just a few weeks that will allow this codex. I imagine people are going to be scrambling to remake their lists to counter potential Deamon Primarchs barreling out of the warp at them at full strength.

Isn't the stratagem possibly for Undivided only? I doubt Magnus, Morty, etc will be allowed an Undivided mark since it's baked in.

Where did you hear that? The leaker on here has confirmed multiple times that it is unrestricted by things like Chaos god or even things in the book. Once you meet the keyword requirement, you're good.

 andysonic1 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
True that nids caused a shift, but still Deamon, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons armies were relying on single or double big monsters that had to slog up the board under fire which helped to balance their power. Now you can just drop in as you see fit. This is going to cause a stir, and the first big tournament is the LVO in just a few weeks that will allow this codex. I imagine people are going to be scrambling to remake their lists to counter potential Deamon Primarchs barreling out of the warp at them at full strength.

Isn't the stratagem possibly for Undivided only? I doubt Magnus, Morty, etc will be allowed an Undivided mark since it's baked in.

Where did you hear that? The leaker on here has confirmed multiple times that it is unrestricted by things like Chaos god or even things in the book. Once you meet the keyword requirement, you're good.

I didn't get to catch that post. In the OP is has it listed under undivided, which I supposed means "any god" in that context. Interesting times ahead.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
True that nids caused a shift, but still Deamon, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons armies were relying on single or double big monsters that had to slog up the board under fire which helped to balance their power. Now you can just drop in as you see fit. This is going to cause a stir, and the first big tournament is the LVO in just a few weeks that will allow this codex. I imagine people are going to be scrambling to remake their lists to counter potential Deamon Primarchs barreling out of the warp at them at full strength.

Isn't the stratagem possibly for Undivided only? I doubt Magnus, Morty, etc will be allowed an Undivided mark since it's baked in.

Where did you hear that? The leaker on here has confirmed multiple times that it is unrestricted by things like Chaos god or even things in the book. Once you meet the keyword requirement, you're good.

I didn't get to catch that post. In the OP is has it listed under undivided, which I supposed means "any god" in that context. Interesting times ahead.

I strongly believe that the next days this thread will reach page 60 in no time...

Daedalus81 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
True that nids caused a shift, but still Deamon, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons armies were relying on single or double big monsters that had to slog up the board under fire which helped to balance their power. Now you can just drop in as you see fit. This is going to cause a stir, and the first big tournament is the LVO in just a few weeks that will allow this codex. I imagine people are going to be scrambling to remake their lists to counter potential Deamon Primarchs barreling out of the warp at them at full strength.

Isn't the stratagem possibly for Undivided only? I doubt Magnus, Morty, etc will be allowed an Undivided mark since it's baked in.

Where did you hear that? The leaker on here has confirmed multiple times that it is unrestricted by things like Chaos god or even things in the book. Once you meet the keyword requirement, you're good.

I didn't get to catch that post. In the OP is has it listed under undivided, which I supposed means "any god" in that context. Interesting times ahead.

I am the OP. I listed it under the undivided section because any god will be able to use it.

Edit: on Saturday / Sunday I expect pictures of the codex to leak. All questions will be answered then.

There are still a lot of unknown variables in that strategem. Is there an army wide rule that is defined in the codex as to what it can affect (in terms of naming/keywords like the Hellbrute situation)? Will there be some sort of wacky stipulation saying something like "if the unit has the HERETIC ASTARTES keyword, you cannot use these strategems on them"? Or will it simply be a CHAOS DAEMON keywords?

If it's a thing, awesome. If not, oh well. I still think 40 genestealers charging first turn is more scary than a daemon primarch deepstriking (not downplaying its effectiveness, just that there are some very scary alternatives!).

I definitely appreciate all the leaks though. It's fun to learn some stuff when you are excited about a thing :p

The leaker is confident you can deep strike Primarchs, which opens the door for other units as well.

20 Khorne Possessed near a Khorne character for reroll charges, oh baby.

It's not good, it's just funny.

That being said, I'm willing to give him a lot of credit, but I moderate a very large competitive 40k community of FB and people are very confident that a lot of things work, and almost all of them are wrong.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ we'll see in a few days.

Oh for sure. Hell, Reece rather infamously made a huge stink in one of the FLG streams a few weeks ago about heroic intervention and all but told his opponent "I know better than you, because I playtested this" and then the next morning GW released a FAQ saying he was wrong. 8th is weird.

Is Mangus and Morty HQs or super heavies? If so...They can just slap a "no super heavy" rule on it, to avoid those shenanigans.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Is Mangus and Morty HQs or super heavies? If so...They can just slap a "no super heavy" rule on it, to avoid those shenanigans.

They are considered Lords of War. However, if they take that approach, ForgeWorld daemons also would not be able to deepstrike, which would further diminish their usability versus a normal Greater Daemon.

Lord of Skulls would be a pretty hilarious deep strike.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Lord of Skulls would be a pretty hilarious deep strike.

I plan to do exactly that at some point, unless it gets FAQed

I'm still largely skeptical of deep striking primarchs. I'd also point out that Morty has the keyword Daemon but it's absent from his Faction Keywords, whereas the Nurgle daemons from the DG codex DO have Daemon listed under their Faction Keyword.

So it's stopped by very simply saying "Models with the Faction Keyword: Daemon".

Keywords are all the same once the battle begins. It very, very much comes down to very specific wording on the stratagem.

I am worried that playtesters and/or the Internet will raise a huge fuss and cry about it, and in response GW will just ban all Chaos Daemons cross-codex stratagem synergy in the FAQ after two weeks (even though other codexes / armies can already do the same thing based on keywords).

The only result of which would be less options for Chaos players, and everyone deep striking in Skarbrand and Bloodletters instead. They will hit just as hard.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Keywords are all the same once the battle begins. It very, very much comes down to very specific wording on the stratagem.

The argument could be made "At what point does the battle begin? Before or after deployment?" IIRC, battle begins AFTER deployment, meaning you would not be able to place anything without a daemon faction keyword into deepstrike with that stratagem.

To be honest I don’t get the fuss being made by deepstriking primarchs, the majority of players I know are already screening with chaff units or deploying so there is no 9” space in their deployment. Plopping Morty down alone and hoping for a 9” charge is just asking for him to be shot off the table.

Guyver 3 wrote:
To be honest I don’t get the fuss being made by deepstriking primarchs, the majority of players I know are already screening with chaff units or deploying so there is no 9” space in their deployment. Plopping Morty down alone and hoping for a 9” charge is just asking for him to be shot off the table.

Thank you god! Someone at last mentioned that. Nobody says anything about Girlieman and the 12468 assault cannon shots rerolling everything.
But yeah, even if you DS Morty and he manages to charge super shooting armies like the ones already killing him turn one, he will be killed turn two by fall back and shoot the crap out of him...

Guyver 3 wrote:
To be honest I don’t get the fuss being made by deepstriking primarchs, the majority of players I know are already screening with chaff units or deploying so there is no 9” space in their deployment. Plopping Morty down alone and hoping for a 9” charge is just asking for him to be shot off the table.

It's the most obvious "the sky is falling" strat people can think of. Like when World Eater Berserkers were going to chainsaw planets in half. Thats how every new release goes. People latch on to one seemingly super-powerful thing in a codex and act like it's the be-all-and-end-all then a few weeks later everyone realises it's not as great as it first seemed and normal function resume, except somewhere another group of people getting rumors about THEIR army are doing the same thing. And so the cycle continues, forever and ever feeding the great Warhammer Internet Drama Machine.

 avedominusnox wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
To be honest I don’t get the fuss being made by deepstriking primarchs, the majority of players I know are already screening with chaff units or deploying so there is no 9” space in their deployment. Plopping Morty down alone and hoping for a 9” charge is just asking for him to be shot off the table.

Thank you god! Someone at last mentioned that. Nobody says anything about Girlieman and the 12468 assault cannon shots rerolling everything.
But yeah, even if you DS Morty and he manages to charge super shooting armies like the ones already killing him turn one, he will be killed turn two by fall back and shoot the crap out of him...

TBF it would be awesome because you could buff him with psychic powers before he got shot (-1 to Hit) and apparently there is a +1 Invulnerable save Stratagem, making him a lot harder to kill. Not complaining.

 andysonic1 wrote:
I am the OP. I listed it under the undivided section because any god will be able to use it.

Edit: on Saturday / Sunday I expect pictures of the codex to leak. All questions will be answered then.

Well, that clears that up - thanks!

 XT-1984 wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
To be honest I don’t get the fuss being made by deepstriking primarchs, the majority of players I know are already screening with chaff units or deploying so there is no 9” space in their deployment. Plopping Morty down alone and hoping for a 9” charge is just asking for him to be shot off the table.

Thank you god! Someone at last mentioned that. Nobody says anything about Girlieman and the 12468 assault cannon shots rerolling everything.
But yeah, even if you DS Morty and he manages to charge super shooting armies like the ones already killing him turn one, he will be killed turn two by fall back and shoot the crap out of him...

TBF it would be awesome because you could buff him with psychic powers before he got shot (-1 to Hit) and apparently there is a +1 Invulnerable save Stratagem, making him a lot harder to kill. Not complaining.

And (almost) all the codexes do have broken crap so it's not just drama. Maybe misplaced brokeness and the actual broken stuff is something else but anybody claiming codexes don't have seriously overpowered stuff by galore(grey knights are notable exception) are just naively kidding themselves. GW either doesn't care about balance or is deliberately putting in broken stuff(frankly I'm putting bet on not caring. Don't blame malice something that can be explained by stupidity. GW designers aren't competent enough to actually make broken stuff deliberately!).

Question is just what's the broken stuff of daemons. This is fairly good candinate.