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So what does the Nurgle sword Relic weapon do? Bileswords, and baleswords already reroll wounds.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Fantasy hounds are cheap enough

Terrible and old models tho with the whole line down the middle where the two halves come together. Fenrisian wolves are way better alternatives.

So what is the deal with the tzeentch named characters like changecaster, how is it different from a regular herald?

It's not named characters, it's merely a new name for herald.

 Kirasu wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Fantasy hounds are cheap enough

Terrible and old models tho with the whole line down the middle where the two halves come together. Fenrisian wolves are way better alternatives.

the models are cheap, easy to convert (because of the two halves),
Fenrisian Wolves are terrible to convert or to "demonise" (it is a lot of work except you want to make Chaos Space Wolves), much more expensive and they have the same mold lines were the two halves come together

no one cares about mold lines if 20 of them are on the table, they just need to look like daemonic hounds (and should be cheap enough so you can get over the fact that GW makes them unplayable from time to time)
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-154-0-03204000-1396012471.jpg

And is it possible to include the Gaunt Summoner from AoS?

 BoomWolf wrote:
It's not named characters, it's merely a new name for herald.

Well poop. Must say Im pretty disapointed for tzeentch. I dont see myself bringing more psyker HQs than neccessary given the spells tzeentch got. Sad.

Also would it have been too much to ask for changeling aura to only affect units with ephemeral form? I feel like that woukd have been an elegant enough fix. It is a little frustrating to see so many other armies which still have access to -1 to hit.

 Ysclyth wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
It's not named characters, it's merely a new name for herald.

Well poop. Must say Im pretty disapointed for tzeentch. I dont see myself bringing more psyker HQs than neccessary given the spells tzeentch got. Sad.

Also would it have been too much to ask for changeling aura to only affect units with ephemeral form? I feel like that woukd have been an elegant enough fix. It is a little frustrating to see so many other armies which still have access to -1 to hit.

If we've seen anything from GW so far, it's that they have no other options other than the nuclear option. If something is too good, expect it to be too bad the next nerf. Theres no such thing as balancing, just a sledgehammer.

Speaking of tzeentch spells. I know of the new ones, but can anyone confirm or deny the old ones are the same?

Hoping for bolt of change getting a sane cost.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Speaking of tzeentch spells. I know of the new ones, but can anyone confirm or deny the old ones are the same?

Hoping for bolt of change getting a sane cost.

I read somewhere that the Bolt of Change is now a WC 8 spell. So -1...

 kodos wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Fantasy hounds are cheap enough

Terrible and old models tho with the whole line down the middle where the two halves come together. Fenrisian wolves are way better alternatives.

the models are cheap, easy to convert (because of the two halves),
Fenrisian Wolves are terrible to convert or to "demonise" (it is a lot of work except you want to make Chaos Space Wolves), much more expensive and they have the same mold lines were the two halves come together

no one cares about mold lines if 20 of them are on the table, they just need to look like daemonic hounds (and should be cheap enough so you can get over the fact that GW makes them unplayable from time to time)
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-154-0-03204000-1396012471.jpg

Fenrisian wolves are pretty good as is if you give them Crimson fur and bone coloured underbellies.

The rule that grants pink horrors more shots if there us 20 or more nodels, does it specify pink horrors or just any horrors. Because that way it might be nice to deepstrike 2 20 pink blobs instead of one 30 blob, since it will cost the same amount of cp and use splitting to keep them at 20 and above.

And im wondering if its also worth it running 2 6 man flamer teams and deepstrike them as well for 1 cp each

 Astmeister wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Speaking of tzeentch spells. I know of the new ones, but can anyone confirm or deny the old ones are the same?

Hoping for bolt of change getting a sane cost.

I read somewhere that the Bolt of Change is now a WC 8 spell. So -1...

Still criminaly too high unless the spawn became free. It should be a 7 tops :-/

BoomWolf wrote: Still criminaly too high unless the spawn became free. It should be a 7 tops :-/

It's a smite that can target characters, in an edition that has rules protecting said characters from shooting, It's good and the spawn is just gravy.
Plus a LoC can cast it on a roll of a 7.

 DarkBlack wrote:

BoomWolf wrote: Still criminaly too high unless the spawn became free. It should be a 7 tops :-/

It's a smite that can target characters, in an edition that has rules protecting said characters from shooting, It's good and the spawn is just gravy.
Plus a LoC can cast it on a roll of a 7.

It's not good. The spawn is an insult. LoCs will be used about as frequently as this power; which is to say rarely ever, if at all.

Too bad about Infernal Gateway. In AoS it's casting value 7, 18" range, can target whatever, you roll 9 Dice and each 3+/4+/5+ (depending on how much damage you've taken) causes a mortal wound. It's pretty devastating.

I was really just hoping for something unique or different - these 8th edition codex's seem singularly focused on matched play. It sure seems like the GW toolbelt in 8th edition is pretty limited? As a mono-Tzeentch player, I was really hoping for something like the "Destiny Dice" mechanic from AoS to come over (and the seasons dial for Nurgle from AoS Blightwar, etc)

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

BoomWolf wrote: Still criminaly too high unless the spawn became free. It should be a 7 tops :-/

It's a smite that can target characters, in an edition that has rules protecting said characters from shooting, It's good and the spawn is just gravy.
Plus a LoC can cast it on a roll of a 7.

It's not good. The spawn is an insult. LoCs will be used about as frequently as this power; which is to say rarely ever, if at all.

I would say that the LoC is pretty okay in non-competitive matches. And even in tournaments you can tank a lot of wounds with him using the 3++ and -1 to Damage. Not many people will be able to ignore him, since he has some good things:
1.) he can buff your shooting pretty well with flickering flames
2.) he can snipe characters or turn them around
3.) he can destroy less than T8 models in melee

I think Magnus and such are overall better, but also more points and they do not have the 3++ nor the -1 to damage.

majorhavok wrote:
I was really just hoping for something unique or different - these 8th edition codex's seem singularly focused on matched play. It sure seems like the GW toolbelt in 8th edition is pretty limited? As a mono-Tzeentch player, I was really hoping for something like the "Destiny Dice" mechanic from AoS to come over (and the seasons dial for Nurgle from AoS Blightwar, etc)

Perhaps that's because GW received a lot of flack from older players about pandering to new and casual players with the new game modes. Or maybe because, if they steer players towards matched play, they will be more inclined to pay more money for better units.

So take your pick: either GW listened to the screaming at the start of 8th or they just want to make more money. (Bonus answer: it's neither of the above and GW just can't write fun rules)

 Astmeister wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

BoomWolf wrote: Still criminaly too high unless the spawn became free. It should be a 7 tops :-/

It's a smite that can target characters, in an edition that has rules protecting said characters from shooting, It's good and the spawn is just gravy.
Plus a LoC can cast it on a roll of a 7.

It's not good. The spawn is an insult. LoCs will be used about as frequently as this power; which is to say rarely ever, if at all.

I would say that the LoC is pretty okay in non-competitive matches. And even in tournaments you can tank a lot of wounds with him using the 3++ and -1 to Damage. Not many people will be able to ignore him, since he has some good things:
1.) he can buff your shooting pretty well with flickering flames
2.) he can snipe characters or turn them around
3.) he can destroy less than T8 models in melee

I think Magnus and such are overall better, but also more points and they do not have the 3++ nor the -1 to damage.

Anything is okay in non-competitive matches. That's a silly statement. There's no point in evaluating models for casual play, because you just play what you like and that's fine. It doesn't need any justification.

 Ysclyth wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
It's not named characters, it's merely a new name for herald.

Well poop. Must say Im pretty disapointed for tzeentch. I dont see myself bringing more psyker HQs than neccessary given the spells tzeentch got. Sad.

Frontline gaming had a good observation lately regarding Grey Knight players complaining about their smite, which was that if you are trying to rely on the psykic phase to do all the heavy lifting of your army than you aren't playing the army correctly. It should be pretty obvious by now that the psykic phase is a support phase, offensively or defensively. It isn't meant to replace your shooting phase or your fight phase. It'll tip the scales a little in your favor so you can do work in your remaining phases. If you want to keep bringing a ton of psykers and spam a ton of spells you need to reevaluate your army because you're still mentally playing 7th.

Bluntly, the Frontlinge guys need to take their heads out of their asses. They've grown from glorified TO's to telling people how to have fun and thinking they know more than everyone, despite often being wrong.

GW Isn't telling anyone you can't use the psychic phase, or that you can't have it be a centerpiece of your army.

Grey Knight and Tsons have every right to complain, because their models are more expensive for the sole purpose of having access to use smite every turn, which by beta rules was recently made all but impossible for them to do so. If your argument is that armies need to use the psychic phase for support, then you need to retool the added cost of armies that are, by nature, psychic heavy.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

BoomWolf wrote: Still criminaly too high unless the spawn became free. It should be a 7 tops :-/

It's a smite that can target characters, in an edition that has rules protecting said characters from shooting, It's good and the spawn is just gravy.
Plus a LoC can cast it on a roll of a 7.

It's not good. The spawn is an insult. LoCs will be used about as frequently as this power; which is to say rarely ever, if at all.

I would say that the LoC is pretty okay in non-competitive matches. And even in tournaments you can tank a lot of wounds with him using the 3++ and -1 to Damage. Not many people will be able to ignore him, since he has some good things:
1.) he can buff your shooting pretty well with flickering flames
2.) he can snipe characters or turn them around
3.) he can destroy less than T8 models in melee

I think Magnus and such are overall better, but also more points and they do not have the 3++ nor the -1 to damage.

Anything is okay in non-competitive matches. That's a silly statement. There's no point in evaluating models for casual play, because you just play what you like and that's fine. It doesn't need any justification.

I also said something about competitive matches, so there's that. Besides it is not true that you would play every silly unuseable unit in casual games. If you think that is true, you have probably never played casual. Let me just remind you of Tyranid Pyrovores in 7th edition. Literally nobody ever played them, even not in casual games.
I would like to point out another thing: Not every one will play the most effective units in tournament matches. I played a lot of WHFB tournaments in 6th edition fantasy and I never used the most broken lists. Even tournament players have some preferences or like to play certain units just for fun....

I'll play the devils advocate here for a sec and just mention those are beta rules. While I can't provide a reference, apparently if those rules to come in to play, Tsons at least will have an ability to mitigate the smite nerf (apparently, according to GW). Presumably armies that have a more ready access to it by way of mini-smites would have some kind of protection from the nerf. But who knows? Only Tzeentch. That's who

 anticitizen013 wrote:
I'll play the devils advocate here for a sec and just mention those are beta rules. While I can't provide a reference, apparently if those rules to come in to play, Tsons at least will have an ability to mitigate the smite nerf (apparently, according to GW). Presumably armies that have a more ready access to it by way of mini-smites would have some kind of protection from the nerf. But who knows? Only Tzeentch. That's who

Only Tzeentch knows, the army of actual space wizards and daemons made of magic, who cannot cast psychic powers frequently. My confusion will never end.

I'm spewing salt here, but the point is valid.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Only Tzeentch knows, the army of actual space wizards and daemons made of magic, who cannot cast psychic powers frequently. My confusion will never end.

I'm spewing salt here, but the point is valid.

Just as planned? Hahaha

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Only Tzeentch knows, the army of actual space wizards and daemons made of magic, who cannot cast psychic powers frequently. My confusion will never end.

Just noting in passing that I played Tizz Daemons in WHFB 8E, when the spell lore was so gakky (and the magic system so bent) that it meant that my army of wizard wizards and daemons made of magic couldn't get anything done in the magic phase. They actually couldn't get anything done in any phase, but that's beside the point .. or maybe it is the point? When I saw the psychic powers for W40k 8E I felt a sad bit of deja vu, and then quickly realized that my blue daemons can do a lot more in the rest of the game, especially shooting. So I'm ok with it, and will invest points in things that aren't psychic.

Frankly 8E's psychic phase is still in beta - smite spam proved that, and the hamfisted fix to smite continues that. (And FWIW psychic buffs are still the most important powers, though I get the angst over lack of damage from Tizz, especially when y'all looking to make the LOC do work.)

- Salvage

At least now you commonly see offensive powers being used, in 6th and 7th wytchfires were never used.

Any clarification on the Nurgle Relic weapon? Most of them already reroll to wound, so what exactly does it do?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Bluntly, the Frontlinge guys need to take their heads out of their asses. They've grown from glorified TO's to telling people how to have fun and thinking they know more than everyone, despite often being wrong.

GW Isn't telling anyone you can't use the psychic phase, or that you can't have it be a centerpiece of your army.

Grey Knight and Tsons have every right to complain, because their models are more expensive for the sole purpose of having access to use smite every turn, which by beta rules was recently made all but impossible for them to do so. If your argument is that armies need to use the psychic phase for support, then you need to retool the added cost of armies that are, by nature, psychic heavy.

This. So much this. I, as a thousand sons player have no issue if you want to nerf the psychic phase. However, when my army pays points to specifically use the psychic phase for heavy lifting then that needs to be balanced also in response. The fact is that there are way more Imperium players than chaos/xenos, so when something comes up that challenges their win record they whine about it being OP. Yet they never have issues with the prevelence of reroll everything that is abundant on their side or the still undercosted imperium splash characters.