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So, I had the chance to play a 2,000 point game with a friend last night using the new Daemon rules. He was playing pure Nurgle and I was playing pure Tzeentch. Long story short, I lost by objectives but if the game had continued I almost certainly would have wiped him off the board. I used a Lord of Change as my warlord with the Daemonspark trait (re-roll failed wound rolls of 1 in the shooting phase within 9") and the Impossible Robe. Now granted, my opponent admittedly had almost no shooting being Nurgle Daemons, but the Lord of Change certainly pulled his own weight. I had him casting Flickering Flames (+1 to wound roll on shooting attacks) and Boon of Change every turn.

Tzeentch Flamers were unsurprisingly the deadliest unit in my list, at one point dropping 20 plague bearers in one round of glorious shooting. Though my blob of 30 Pink Horrors did really well too with the support of a Tzeentch Herald, Lord of Change, and Daemon Prince for those sweet, sweet re-rolls.

One thing I really liked was using the power Gaze of Fate (re-roll a single dice during your turn) to increase my odds of getting the plus 1 strength result from Boon of Change - Which of course now that our infantry's ranged weapons are Strength:User can make a BIG difference at the right moment.

For a first game experience using a new codex, I'd say it went pretty well! I know the Lord of Change's rules are uninspired to say the least, but his +2 to cast/deny is REALLY handy when facing an opponent that can and will try to deny your most important powers whenever possible.

 Stumbling Snake wrote:

One thing I really liked was using the power Gaze of Fate (re-roll a single dice during your turn) to increase my odds of getting the plus 1 strength result from Boon of Change - Which of course now that our infantry's ranged weapons are Strength:User can make a BIG difference at the right moment.

Or, you use the power that gives them +1 to wound on shooting and brings out a much better result?

Sure you can combo the two, but it tends to be either irrelevant, or overkill, depending on target.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Stumbling Snake wrote:

One thing I really liked was using the power Gaze of Fate (re-roll a single dice during your turn) to increase my odds of getting the plus 1 strength result from Boon of Change - Which of course now that our infantry's ranged weapons are Strength:User can make a BIG difference at the right moment.

Or, you use the power that gives them +1 to wound on shooting and brings out a much better result?

Sure you can combo the two, but it tends to be either irrelevant, or overkill, depending on target.

Sure! The problem is I was using the +1 to wound on the flamers already, but I'd really also like my Pink Horror blob to wound Plaguebearers on 3+!

So it was more a case of Flickering Flames being used already and improvising as best I could to make the Horrors into murder-machines.

Do we have a leak yet on the sloppity bilepiper yet?

Plenty of reviews have read out the rules already.
+1 atk to GUOs and Nurglins,
Roll 2 dice for morale pick lowest(or just re-roll, I forget). This way you can proc the Icons a lot more often.
And he has bad stats.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Plenty of reviews have read out the rules already.
+1 atk to GUOs and Nurglins,
Roll 2 dice for morale pick lowest(or just re-roll, I forget). This way you can proc the Icons a lot more often.
And he has bad stats.

Cool, thanks. Seems like a bust especially compared to the other new herald.

 quickfuze wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Bluntly, the Frontlinge guys need to take their heads out of their asses. They've grown from glorified TO's to telling people how to have fun and thinking they know more than everyone, despite often being wrong.

GW Isn't telling anyone you can't use the psychic phase, or that you can't have it be a centerpiece of your army.

Grey Knight and Tsons have every right to complain, because their models are more expensive for the sole purpose of having access to use smite every turn, which by beta rules was recently made all but impossible for them to do so. If your argument is that armies need to use the psychic phase for support, then you need to retool the added cost of armies that are, by nature, psychic heavy.

This. So much this. I, as a thousand sons player have no issue if you want to nerf the psychic phase. However, when my army pays points to specifically use the psychic phase for heavy lifting then that needs to be balanced also in response. The fact is that there are way more Imperium players than chaos/xenos, so when something comes up that challenges their win record they whine about it being OP. Yet they never have issues with the prevelence of reroll everything that is abundant on their side or the still undercosted imperium splash characters.

These statements are so dumb. No one is forcing you to go to an ITC event or play with ITC rules at your event. You play the game you want to play. With that being said, if you go to an event that uses the ITC rules you can’t be mad. You knew that going into it. Also, smite spam is very demoralizing to play against, especially if you don’t have a lot of psykers. Trust me I played a psyker list and it just wasn’t fun. I have had upwards of 16 sources of smite. That is unhealthy for the game. You have to remember that these nerds are targeting your army specificcly, it is targeting an unfun mechanic to play against. You haven’t even seen the Tsons codex yet and have no idea what is in store. I feel a lot of the complainingnis unwarranted.

O'Shovah's Desciple wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Bluntly, the Frontlinge guys need to take their heads out of their asses. They've grown from glorified TO's to telling people how to have fun and thinking they know more than everyone, despite often being wrong.

GW Isn't telling anyone you can't use the psychic phase, or that you can't have it be a centerpiece of your army.

Grey Knight and Tsons have every right to complain, because their models are more expensive for the sole purpose of having access to use smite every turn, which by beta rules was recently made all but impossible for them to do so. If your argument is that armies need to use the psychic phase for support, then you need to retool the added cost of armies that are, by nature, psychic heavy.

This. So much this. I, as a thousand sons player have no issue if you want to nerf the psychic phase. However, when my army pays points to specifically use the psychic phase for heavy lifting then that needs to be balanced also in response. The fact is that there are way more Imperium players than chaos/xenos, so when something comes up that challenges their win record they whine about it being OP. Yet they never have issues with the prevelence of reroll everything that is abundant on their side or the still undercosted imperium splash characters.

These statements are so dumb. No one is forcing you to go to an ITC event or play with ITC rules at your event. You play the game you want to play. With that being said, if you go to an event that uses the ITC rules you can’t be mad. You knew that going into it. Also, smite spam is very demoralizing to play against, especially if you don’t have a lot of psykers. Trust me I played a psyker list and it just wasn’t fun. I have had upwards of 16 sources of smite. That is unhealthy for the game. You have to remember that these nerds are targeting your army specificcly, it is targeting an unfun mechanic to play against. You haven’t even seen the Tsons codex yet and have no idea what is in store. I feel a lot of the complainingnis unwarranted.

It's ironic you're calling the statements dumb, and then go on to gripe about a complaint no one made.

No one has criticized the ITC as a format. We criticized the people who spoke out and told Grey Knight players or Tsons players to stop whining.

No one can speak to the codex because it's not out, and we're not trying to. We're talking about right now. This whole reply was silly.

O'Shovah's Desciple wrote:
You haven’t even seen the Tsons codex yet and have no idea what is in store. I feel a lot of the complainingnis unwarranted.

Well almost certainly nothing that has taken into account beta rule into place(which by definition shouldn't even be locked). Codex has been done like months ago before beta rules were released so unless they have been holding back on that beta rule...

So unless they had in mind of moving T-Sons away from psychic heavy army before coming up with beta rule not much hope it deals well with the beta rule.

Tells people that they have an unfun uninteractive playstyle because there's no counterplay to an 18" range closest target spell.

Name is a Tau reference.

 ThePie wrote:
The rule that grants pink horrors more shots if there us 20 or more nodels, does it specify pink horrors or just any horrors. Because that way it might be nice to deepstrike 2 20 pink blobs instead of one 30 blob, since it will cost the same amount of cp and use splitting to keep them at 20 and above.

And im wondering if its also worth it running 2 6 man flamer teams and deepstrike them as well for 1 cp each

This i can get excited about. It gives a reason to actually split. I was worried about having only one round of buffed shooting if i only want 1 cp deepstriking. Do you have the exact wording?

 Ysclyth wrote:

 ThePie wrote:
The rule that grants pink horrors more shots if there us 20 or more nodels, does it specify pink horrors or just any horrors. Because that way it might be nice to deepstrike 2 20 pink blobs instead of one 30 blob, since it will cost the same amount of cp and use splitting to keep them at 20 and above.

And im wondering if its also worth it running 2 6 man flamer teams and deepstrike them as well for 1 cp each

This i can get excited about. I was worried about having only one roynd of buffed shooting if i only want 1 cp derpstrike. Do you have the exact wording?

I didn’t think flamers got a PL reduction? Currently They’re 9PL for 6 which would be a 2cp deep strike.

 Ysclyth wrote:

 ThePie wrote:
The rule that grants pink horrors more shots if there us 20 or more nodels, does it specify pink horrors or just any horrors. Because that way it might be nice to deepstrike 2 20 pink blobs instead of one 30 blob, since it will cost the same amount of cp and use splitting to keep them at 20 and above.

And im wondering if its also worth it running 2 6 man flamer teams and deepstrike them as well for 1 cp each

This i can get excited about. It gives a reason to actually split. I was worried about having only one round of buffed shooting if i only want 1 cp deepstriking. Do you have the exact wording?

I am sorry, I just cannot get excited about paying points for an ability that everyone else gets for free. (Replenish dead models of an existing unit at no cost, tyranid, nurgle)

 quickfuze wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 ThePie wrote:
The rule that grants pink horrors more shots if there us 20 or more nodels, does it specify pink horrors or just any horrors. Because that way it might be nice to deepstrike 2 20 pink blobs instead of one 30 blob, since it will cost the same amount of cp and use splitting to keep them at 20 and above.

And im wondering if its also worth it running 2 6 man flamer teams and deepstrike them as well for 1 cp each

This i can get excited about. It gives a reason to actually split. I was worried about having only one round of buffed shooting if i only want 1 cp deepstriking. Do you have the exact wording?

I am sorry, I just cannot get excited about paying points for an ability that everyone else gets for free. (Replenish dead models of an existing unit at no cost, tyranid, nurgle)

The hole in your argument is that you're NOT replenishing models, you're adding new ones, especially when you go from Pink to Blue. Plus, you know, Pinks can get dead Pinks back, too.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 ThePie wrote:
The rule that grants pink horrors more shots if there us 20 or more nodels, does it specify pink horrors or just any horrors. Because that way it might be nice to deepstrike 2 20 pink blobs instead of one 30 blob, since it will cost the same amount of cp and use splitting to keep them at 20 and above.

And im wondering if its also worth it running 2 6 man flamer teams and deepstrike them as well for 1 cp each

This i can get excited about. It gives a reason to actually split. I was worried about having only one round of buffed shooting if i only want 1 cp deepstriking. Do you have the exact wording?

I am sorry, I just cannot get excited about paying points for an ability that everyone else gets for free. (Replenish dead models of an existing unit at no cost, tyranid, nurgle)

The hole in your argument is that you're NOT replenishing models, you're adding new ones, especially when you go from Pink to Blue. Plus, you know, Pinks can get dead Pinks back, too.

Poxwalkers and Plaguebearers both kindly disagree with you.

The biggest issue I have with split is the amount of book keeping. If I split 7 pinks and 8 blues I don't want to do the math on that, nor does my opponent to ensure I'm not going over points.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 ThePie wrote:
The rule that grants pink horrors more shots if there us 20 or more nodels, does it specify pink horrors or just any horrors. Because that way it might be nice to deepstrike 2 20 pink blobs instead of one 30 blob, since it will cost the same amount of cp and use splitting to keep them at 20 and above.

And im wondering if its also worth it running 2 6 man flamer teams and deepstrike them as well for 1 cp each

This i can get excited about. It gives a reason to actually split. I was worried about having only one round of buffed shooting if i only want 1 cp deepstriking. Do you have the exact wording?

I am sorry, I just cannot get excited about paying points for an ability that everyone else gets for free. (Replenish dead models of an existing unit at no cost, tyranid, nurgle)

The hole in your argument is that you're NOT replenishing models, you're adding new ones, especially when you go from Pink to Blue. Plus, you know, Pinks can get dead Pinks back, too.

they have depreciating strength and toughness....it is still a similar net effect. i disagree with your interpretation

btw anyone excited with DS skarbrand? now he won't need to reach enemy at grunt speed

 quickfuze wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 ThePie wrote:
The rule that grants pink horrors more shots if there us 20 or more nodels, does it specify pink horrors or just any horrors. Because that way it might be nice to deepstrike 2 20 pink blobs instead of one 30 blob, since it will cost the same amount of cp and use splitting to keep them at 20 and above.

And im wondering if its also worth it running 2 6 man flamer teams and deepstrike them as well for 1 cp each

This i can get excited about. It gives a reason to actually split. I was worried about having only one round of buffed shooting if i only want 1 cp deepstriking. Do you have the exact wording?

I am sorry, I just cannot get excited about paying points for an ability that everyone else gets for free. (Replenish dead models of an existing unit at no cost, tyranid, nurgle)

The hole in your argument is that you're NOT replenishing models, you're adding new ones, especially when you go from Pink to Blue. Plus, you know, Pinks can get dead Pinks back, too.

they have depreciating strength and toughness....it is still a similar net effect. i disagree with your interpretation

But they still are new models in your army, If you didnt have to pay for these guys to be in your army, that would be OP. I mean, a pink, 2 blues, and 2 flame horrors for 8 or 9 points only? That's way too good.

Um... Skull Cannon didn't drop in pts... It's still 100...

So, seeing the leaked Great Unclean One stats, is he worth taking? I've never been able to make Morty work for me, unfortunately, but maybe the GUO would work better, seeing as he's a lot cheaper?

I checked the pink horror shooting buff (from a youtube video)and it specified only pink horrors, so you should still use 30 pink blob, though it is perhaps not a bad idea to deepstrike 1 blob and footslog the other.

And flamers were reduced to power level 4, so you can deepstrike 6 for 1 cp, or two 6 man sauads for 2 cp, which i plan to do.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Um... Skull Cannon didn't drop in pts... It's still 100...

It used to be 147pts :/

Was it? ._.

OMG. Why did I think it was 100. I remember thinking "omg this is so bad at 100" WHELP.

Good thing I noticed that an hour before I ordered the start collectings. Changed them to just Bloodletters :p

 ThePie wrote:
I checked the pink horror shooting buff (from a youtube video)and it specified only pink horrors, so you should still use 30 pink blob, though it is perhaps not a bad idea to deepstrike 1 blob and footslog the other.

And flamers were reduced to power level 4, so you can deepstrike 6 for 1 cp, or two 6 man sauads for 2 cp, which i plan to do.

Jeez. Depressing

Mymearan wrote:Too bad about Infernal Gateway. In AoS it's casting value 7, 18" range, can target whatever, you roll 9 Dice and each 3+/4+/5+ (depending on how much damage you've taken) causes a mortal wound. It's pretty devastating.

Having something similar to AoS Tzeentch daemons would have been amazing.
Destiny dice are so fluffy and fun, infernal gateway lives up to what it sounds like and the AoS LoC IS a fething master of magic. Gets a powerful unique spell, a powerful casting mechanic (change the lower of the 2 casting dice to match the higher) and gives +1 to cast in a big radius.
Blue scribes are fun and fluffy too (rather than a meh spell thief) and I like the sneaky Changeling more than the buffing Changeling.

AoS has fixed wound rolls (not a fan of those) and almost no players around here though.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Was it? ._.

OMG. Why did I think it was 100. I remember thinking "omg this is so bad at 100" WHELP.

Good thing I noticed that an hour before I ordered the start collectings. Changed them to just Bloodletters :p

Don't get your dreams crushed too soon, they also got a stat buff as well as a points drop. Cannons are worf now.

Can you use Hellforged Artifacts on named characters? I think Frankie from FLG said that you could.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated my Chaos Daemons summary thanks to the handy 3 hour video https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By4SQd_H1eW8QVZBYUpDUXBfbDg
All changes outlined in green. Yes, you can go play with the full codex today.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Can you use Hellforged Artifacts on named characters? I think Frankie from FLG said that you could.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated my Chaos Daemons summary thanks to the handy 3 hour video https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By4SQd_H1eW8QVZBYUpDUXBfbDg
All changes outlined in green. Yes, you can go play with the full codex today.

Frankie is wrong. Named characters cannot use artifacts as they typically already have "artifacts" on their Stat sheet. This is a precursor in every artifact section of every codex thus far.

 Virules wrote:
The GW rules already state that you always use the latest datasheet for a unit regardless of source. No issue.

It can be an issue when it forces you to buy a lot of codices for armies you don't play just because there is a crossover unit (mainly applies to Chaos that I have seen - I don't play Marines so I don't know if each flavour of marines has some common units of if a space wolves rhino is different to a blood angels rhino etc. (otherwise you would have to buy every new marine codex)).

Mark.

Lol they recreated the old demon vs GK rule!