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Let's see if i understand...

Models wise there are only a handful of (yet more) Nurgle things. On the greater demon and the beasts, is fine, but the new heralds seem unnecesary and a bit unfair for the other gods (Slaanesh models?).

The rules are basically the same as the index ones, but new miniatures (Nurgle again) get more interesting and powerful ones. Old units are the boring same... Not only that, but some units are erased from the codex (slaanesh heralds).

The demons still can suffer moral casualties, when imperial armies like Dark angels are inmmune to that. So, if i get it correctly, according to the rules a creature from another dimension that is literally inmmortal is way more likely to flee than a (at the end of the day) human soldier? How? This is simply dumb.

Also, the demons can still suffer "perils of the warp". Such effect is caused by... demons from the warp, so basically the same creatures are f themselves for no apparent reason. Some other units like farseers are way more capable of shrugging off the effects of that, but the creatures of the same dimension that causes the "perils" are apparently much more vulnerable to that... IS absurd.

Not only that, but the very God of MAGIC have only a handful of lackluster and uninspired (and mostly useless) powers, when again, for example, eldars have a lot of more (and more useful)... How is that? Really? The purpose of the codex is to try to recreate the background and story of the army that it describes or only do that for some armies??

Again, the rules are the same as the index, uninspired and plain boring. BUT the codex is so wonderfully written (sarcasm...) that you can use it as a token to deep strike PRIMARCHS. Super-balanced and fun. And very much like the background. Everyone knows that every wednesday Mortarion and Magnus along with various unrelated chaos things fall just in the front of some random unrelated collection of imperial things to kill each other...


So in the end, in my opinion this is another lackluster, boring, dull codex. I dislike this kind of releases by GW. A handful of new models, no rules changes, only new units for the new models, even deleting some units for no reason, uninspired and boring powers, etc... Who has written this? I dislike it, is really dissappointing and marks another step in doing "random blob of things vs random blob of things" and not 40k.
This is not the 40k i loved.

TBH, this is one of the better codexes released in 8th

 Ysclyth wrote:

 ThePie wrote:
I checked the pink horror shooting buff (from a youtube video)and it specified only pink horrors, so you should still use 30 pink blob, though it is perhaps not a bad idea to deepstrike 1 blob and footslog the other.

And flamers were reduced to power level 4, so you can deepstrike 6 for 1 cp, or two 6 man sauads for 2 cp, which i plan to do.

Jeez. Depressing

Yay PL8 for 6 flamers! Two deep striking squads of six ought to downright terrify my opponent!

Gotta be honest though, as a mono tzeentch player I am overall unimpressed with this release. it’s not a bad book at all and there are some great uses for deepstrike and gunline. I’m just a bit disappointed in our overall psychic powers, yes there’s some good utility but a total of 6 powers for the god of sorcery?

I’m also a little grumpy about boon of tzeentch, I’m not a fan of random benefits.

And then our god specific stratagems...why are the generic ones soooo much better than the tzeentch ones?

Last gripe I promise, but Kairos is still pretty meh, can’t give him the robes for a 3++, fixed warlord trait is pretty useless as command point and psychic rerolls are a thing. So paying a pretty big premium for a LoC that can cast and deny an extra spell. I didn’t want him to be OP, I had that all through 7th, I just wanted him to not be an obviously worse choice than the generic version.

Well..that’s my rant. Again I’m overall happy with the book, it’s cool, it’ll be fun..just needed to piss and moan a bit.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Can you use Hellforged Artifacts on named characters? I think Frankie from FLG said that you could.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated my Chaos Daemons summary thanks to the handy 3 hour video https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By4SQd_H1eW8QVZBYUpDUXBfbDg
All changes outlined in green. Yes, you can go play with the full codex today.

On one of the Tzeentch stratagems you have its effect down as "Select Tzeentch Daemon Psyker. I can immediatly attempt to manifest a psychic power."

I mean, you can attempt all you want but I'm not sure you'll succeed. You might burst a blood vessel if you try too hard though.

Chaos Daemons Faction Focus wrote:Excitingly, unlike previous editions, these Loci affect every single Daemon unit in your detachment, including your Greater Daemons!

This opens the door to some interesting combinations.

Example:

Tzeentch Vanguard:
Herald on Disc
Flamers
Flamers
Exalted Flamer

Khorne Outriders:
Herald on Juggernaut
Flesh Hounds
Flesh Hounds
Furies

Chaos Daemons Battalion:
Tzeentch Daemon Prince
Bloodthirster of Being Unreasonably Angry
30 Pink Horrors
20 Bloodletters
9 Brimstone, 1 Blue

Chaos Daemons Speartip:
Karanak
Skull Cannon
Skull Cannon
Burning Chariot

If the preview wasn’t a typo, everything in that army can benefit from Loci, with no tax units. We might well have some creative options to get around ‘I’m not buying and painting sixty ruddy Daemonettes’.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Can you use Hellforged Artifacts on named characters? I think Frankie from FLG said that you could.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated my Chaos Daemons summary thanks to the handy 3 hour video https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By4SQd_H1eW8QVZBYUpDUXBfbDg
All changes outlined in green. Yes, you can go play with the full codex today.

On one of the Tzeentch stratagems you have its effect down as "Select Tzeentch Daemon Psyker. I can immediatly attempt to manifest a psychic power."

I mean, you can attempt all you want but I'm not sure you'll succeed. You might burst a blood vessel if you try too hard though.

Lol, I was typing it while slowly listening to the video. So typos might occur, especially in names as you can't see them clearly.

 Warpspy wrote:
Let's see if i understand...

The demons still can suffer moral casualties, when imperial armies like Dark angels are immune to that. So, if i get it correctly, according to the rules a creature from another dimension that is literally immortal is way more likely to flee than a (at the end of the day) human soldier? How? This is simply dumb.

Also, the demons can still suffer "perils of the warp". Such effect is caused by... demons from the warp, so basically the same creatures are f themselves for no apparent reason. Some other units like farseers are way more capable of shrugging off the effects of that, but the creatures of the same dimension that causes the "perils" are apparently much more vulnerable to that... IS absurd.

Just to address these two points, Daemons' existence in realspace is tentative at best (hence previous rules like Daemonic Instability and/or dodgy warpstorm results). Whilst the non-corporeally nature of Daemons mean they can sometimes shrug off lascannons, it also means they can be banished by something as trivial as a loss of faith by their followers. Fluff vs.rules-wise, the Daemons are not fleeing, they are suffering so much damage so quickly that they start to lose their connection to realspace and more of their fellows disappear. Note that the best way to mitigate this (A Greater Daemon nearby) works pretty well fluff-wise too; the Daemon is able to booster is fellows and act as an anchor point.

Likewise perils could indeed be another daemon mucking things up; why wouldn't a sneaky Lord of Change lurking in the warp use its rivals attempt to harness some warp power as an opportunity to stick the boot in? However it also represents the complications of the daemon trying to impose its will on realspace; daemons are at home in the warp, but they are not in the warp during a game. They are literally sharks out of water. Its a tribute to their power that they remain so dangerous under these circumstances.

By contrast, a Farseer who ends up in the warp is going to be in a lot of trouble very quickly. There was a story about several Farseers trying to break into the garden of Nurgle in the last codex. It did not go well . . .

 Denny wrote:

 Warpspy wrote:
Let's see if i understand...

The demons still can suffer moral casualties, when imperial armies like Dark angels are immune to that. So, if i get it correctly, according to the rules a creature from another dimension that is literally immortal is way more likely to flee than a (at the end of the day) human soldier? How? This is simply dumb.

Also, the demons can still suffer "perils of the warp". Such effect is caused by... demons from the warp, so basically the same creatures are f themselves for no apparent reason. Some other units like farseers are way more capable of shrugging off the effects of that, but the creatures of the same dimension that causes the "perils" are apparently much more vulnerable to that... IS absurd.

Just to address these two points, Daemons' existence in realspace is tentative at best (hence previous rules like Daemonic Instability and/or dodgy warpstorm results). Whilst the non-corporeally nature of Daemons mean they can sometimes shrug off lascannons, it also means they can be banished by something as trivial as a loss of faith by their followers. Fluff vs.rules-wise, the Daemons are not fleeing, they are suffering so much damage so quickly that they start to lose their connection to realspace and more of their fellows disappear. Note that the best way to mitigate this (A Greater Daemon nearby) works pretty well fluff-wise too; the Daemon is able to booster is fellows and act as an anchor point.

Likewise perils could indeed be another daemon mucking things up; why wouldn't a sneaky Lord of Change lurking in the warp use its rivals attempt to harness some warp power as an opportunity to stick the boot in? However it also represents the complications of the daemon trying to impose its will on realspace; daemons are at home in the warp, but they are not in the warp during a game. They are literally sharks out of water. Its a tribute to their power that they remain so dangerous under these circumstances.

By contrast, a Farseer who ends up in the warp is going to be in a lot of trouble very quickly. There was a story about several Farseers trying to break into the garden of Nurgle in the last codex. It did not go well . . .

Yup. This about covers it. New morale phase is basically Daemonic Instability for every army.

Just imagine if GW decides to bring back Phase Out for Necrons

My favorite aspect of Demons is painting the different cool faction models.
Is there any indication with this codex thus far that playing a hybrid, multi-god force will be possible or viable? Will it only be available if reaching a 2nd battalion?

Getting a second battalion or vanguard or whatever is probably best. I’m sure you’d be fine mixing them up, the loci aren’t that big of a deal for everything, but why not keep them separate? There’s so much variety in the force org charts, and we probably want to get as many CP as possible anyway.

It seems like it’ll be pretty easy to make multiple single god detachments and retain the loci benefits, so no real reason not to.

Models wise there are only a handful of (yet more) Nurgle things. On the greater demon and the beasts, is fine, but the new heralds seem unnecesary and a bit unfair for the other gods (Slaanesh models?).

As someone who plays Slaanesh.. I'm thrilled by the idea of new heralds. It's a way of expanding out different types of heralds, giving some uniqueness to the various types of Heralds that would serve as "better then the rest" then the file and rank.

As long as everyone eventually gets new herald types of course.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Models wise there are only a handful of (yet more) Nurgle things. On the greater demon and the beasts, is fine, but the new heralds seem unnecesary and a bit unfair for the other gods (Slaanesh models?).

As someone who plays Slaanesh.. I'm thrilled by the idea of new heralds. It's a way of expanding out different types of heralds, giving some uniqueness to the various types of Heralds that would serve as "better then the rest" then the file and rank.

As long as everyone eventually gets new herald types of course.

Everyone got new fancy named Herald EXCEPT Slaanesh.
Everyone kept the index mounted Herald EXCEPT Slaanesh.

Do you feel the love?

Nope, but then again that's how GW works.. Only Khorne got Bloodthirsters and a codex with Marines/Daemons combined, then Tzeentch got new birds, a new army, and a bunch of stuff.. And now Nurgle.

I'm just waiting for Slaanesh to drop if/When Fulgrim comes out. I've been patient, and I've seen the other gods rewarded for it as well.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Nope, but then again that's how GW works.. Only Khorne got Bloodthirsters and a codex with Marines/Daemons combined, then Tzeentch got new birds, a new army, and a bunch of stuff.. And now Nurgle.

I'm just waiting for Slaanesh to drop if/When Fulgrim comes out. I've been patient, and I've seen the other gods rewarded for it as well.

Rumors say second half of 2018 is Sexy Deamons time to shine with super sexy man Fulgrim as well as new models. That would fit with the other god's release over the past few years.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Nope, but then again that's how GW works.. Only Khorne got Bloodthirsters and a codex with Marines/Daemons combined, then Tzeentch got new birds, a new army, and a bunch of stuff.. And now Nurgle.

I'm just waiting for Slaanesh to drop if/When Fulgrim comes out. I've been patient, and I've seen the other gods rewarded for it as well.

We still have this rumor engine pick:

Fulgrim could be on hishe's way.

I wouldn't hold my breath. While a Fulgrim release is possible, the complete lack of care for Slaanesh in the Codex release only highlight the Dark Prince being treated as the redheaded stepchild.

It wouldn't have cost anything to GW to give a fancy name to the Herald of Slaanesh and bring the mounted Herald to the codex, especially since the Herald on Chariot has a current available plastic model.

Apologies for the potentially perceived pedantry, but: daemons, D-a-e-mons. I've seen the deamons typo consistently in this thread (including the title), so I figured I'd throw the correction out there, for whatever it's worth.

Do Demonic Loci effect Morty and Magnus? RAW seem to indicate so but RAI seem not?

 krakjen wrote:
I wouldn't hold my breath. While a Fulgrim release is possible, the complete lack of care for Slaanesh in the Codex release only highlight the Dark Prince being treated as the redheaded stepchild.

Heard the exactly same talk about Tzeentch up until the major releases in 40k and AoS.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Nope, but then again that's how GW works.. Only Khorne got Bloodthirsters and a codex with Marines/Daemons combined, then Tzeentch got new birds, a new army, and a bunch of stuff.. And now Nurgle.

I'm just waiting for Slaanesh to drop if/When Fulgrim comes out. I've been patient, and I've seen the other gods rewarded for it as well.

Thank you for the most rational Slaanesh player response I've ever seen.

I just realised that Khorne never gotten new flesh hounds during their release cycle. I wonder why that was.

 Darkseid wrote:

 krakjen wrote:
I wouldn't hold my breath. While a Fulgrim release is possible, the complete lack of care for Slaanesh in the Codex release only highlight the Dark Prince being treated as the redheaded stepchild.

Heard the exactly same talk about Tzeentch up until the major releases in 40k and AoS.

And you'd have a point if the issue with Slaanesh was the lack of new models.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Do Demonic Loci effect Morty and Magnus? RAW seem to indicate so but RAI seem not?

They sure do, and moreover this appears to be intended. There’s a designers note about keywords affecting things in different armies. there’s all sorts of shenanigans to be had with the Daemon keyword after the codex releases.

AwesomeSauceGaming wrote:

 Ysclyth wrote:

 ThePie wrote:
I checked the pink horror shooting buff (from a youtube video)and it specified only pink horrors, so you should still use 30 pink blob, though it is perhaps not a bad idea to deepstrike 1 blob and footslog the other.

And flamers were reduced to power level 4, so you can deepstrike 6 for 1 cp, or two 6 man sauads for 2 cp, which i plan to do.

Jeez. Depressing

Yay PL8 for 6 flamers! Two deep striking squads of six ought to downright terrify my opponent!

Gotta be honest though, as a mono tzeentch player I am overall unimpressed with this release. it’s not a bad book at all and there are some great uses for deepstrike and gunline. I’m just a bit disappointed in our overall psychic powers, yes there’s some good utility but a total of 6 powers for the god of sorcery?

I’m also a little grumpy about boon of tzeentch, I’m not a fan of random benefits.

And then our god specific stratagems...why are the generic ones soooo much better than the tzeentch ones?

Last gripe I promise, but Kairos is still pretty meh, can’t give him the robes for a 3++, fixed warlord trait is pretty useless as command point and psychic rerolls are a thing. So paying a pretty big premium for a LoC that can cast and deny an extra spell. I didn’t want him to be OP, I had that all through 7th, I just wanted him to not be an obviously worse choice than the generic version.

Well..that’s my rant. Again I’m overall happy with the book, it’s cool, it’ll be fun..just needed to piss and moan a bit.

The more I look at this codex from a Mono-Tzeentch standpoint, the less and less I like. For all the reasons you listed by most of all I simply cannot believe the warlord trait they gave Kairos, They almost assure that I would NOT want to take Kairos as my warlord, which means I will not gain the D3 command points he offers. What a terrible, terrible rule set for Kairos. Really infuriating.

What trait DID they give him? for those of us less knowing.


And yes, mono-tzeentch seems sad. the locus bonus is just not something tzeentch really cares for, and highly unreliable.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
TBH, this is one of the better codexes released in 8th

Then, That speaks volumes about 8th edition...

 Warpspy wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
TBH, this is one of the better codexes released in 8th

Then, That speaks volumes about 8th edition...

This completely changes how Daemons armies play, gives them a ton of new options, and introduces lots of synergy between CSM and Daemons armies. This codex is huge for Chaos players. I'm not sure what else you could have wanted.

 BoomWolf wrote:
What trait DID they give him? for those of us less knowing.


And yes, mono-tzeentch seems sad. the locus bonus is just not something tzeentch really cares for, and highly unreliable.

Don't understand why the loci couldn't be for shooting instead close combat attacks, even then it would be a joke versus Ravenguard/Alpha Legion tactics.

And Kairos got the trait which means he doesn't perils on a 2+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Warpspy wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
TBH, this is one of the better codexes released in 8th

Then, That speaks volumes about 8th edition...

This completely changes how Daemons armies play, gives them a ton of new options, and introduces lots of synergy between CSM and Daemons armies. This codex is huge for Chaos players. I'm not sure what else you could have wanted.

Well to be fair, it is a bit of a slap in the face for mono-Tzeentch since the Loci is rubbish, their named characters and greater daemons are 'meh' and the psychic powers are 'meh' too. As far as Chaos as a whole goes though, I'm loving this release and I'm real excited for some CSM-Daemon action.

We spend all 7th complaining because units ignore or break the rules of the game, and we spend all 8th complaining that units don't ignore or break the rules of the game.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
What trait DID they give him? for those of us less knowing.


And yes, mono-tzeentch seems sad. the locus bonus is just not something tzeentch really cares for, and highly unreliable.

Don't understand why the loci couldn't be for shooting instead close combat attacks, even then it would be a joke versus Ravenguard/Alpha Legion tactics.

And Kairos got the trait which means he doesn't perils on a 2+.

I feel the same in regards to the Tzeentch Locus, for an army that should typically avoid melee GW sure seems intent on giving us melee special abilities! I think this rule would be fine if it effected the shooting phase instead, but oh well. Kairos having that Warlord Trait in his rules is also a shame. Guess I'll be sticking to my generic Lord of Change wearing the impossible robe and giving everything within 9" re-roll wound rolls of 1 in the shooting phase.

I really like the changes they made to Pink Horrors and Flamers of Tzeentch, but boy do I wish they had showed a little more love to the Lords of Change.