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Tzeentch Daemons overall are feeling really nice. With the possible exception of Fateweaver, every single Tzeentch unit feels like it has a place.

Lord of Change: With the aforementioned trait and relic, this guy is actually super durable, and offers a great nexus for psychic powers in your army. I ran mine as a beatstick with all offensive powers just for SnG (and because I had all my buffs covered by other models) and he showed up from deep strike and just slammed the enemy army with 14 mortal wounds spread across a ton of enemy units, then he charged and finished off the tank he had initially been targeting. Survived three full turns rampaging through the enemy army.

Flamers: 12" range buff makes them feel so good, they just hung out in the brimstone screen I had in front of my big unit of pinks and burninated infantry. I can see running them as a drop squad too but I didnt' have the CPs to spare for it.

Herald on Chariot: Still somewhat awkward splitting his attacks between the six actually useful anti-elite/character hunting screamer attacks and the three pretty worthless S3 herald bops, but now that his buff applies to shooting it feels like one of these is pretty much mandatory to run. I'm torn between him and the Disc just for cost, but it's nice to not have your herald just fold to the first enemy character who charges him. A chariot herald can pretty reliably take on a captain or a lieutenant or something and kill him or at least survive to fly away.

Screamers: The flyby attack is actually useful again! I dont' think this got caught in the leaks but it no longer is worded to require the Screamers to Advance, so you can slash a unit for a couple mortal wounds, then charge it. Hooray! This and the lamprey bite change makes screamers a vital second anti-light vehicle choice for tzeentch. I like Exalted Flamers as much as the next guy but more than a single option is always nice.

the_scotsman wrote:
Tzeentch Daemons overall are feeling really nice. With the possible exception of Fateweaver, every single Tzeentch unit feels like it has a place.

Lord of Change: With the aforementioned trait and relic, this guy is actually super durable, and offers a great nexus for psychic powers in your army. I ran mine as a beatstick with all offensive powers just for SnG (and because I had all my buffs covered by other models) and he showed up from deep strike and just slammed the enemy army with 14 mortal wounds spread across a ton of enemy units, then he charged and finished off the tank he had initially been targeting. Survived three full turns rampaging through the enemy army.

Flamers: 12" range buff makes them feel so good, they just hung out in the brimstone screen I had in front of my big unit of pinks and burninated infantry. I can see running them as a drop squad too but I didnt' have the CPs to spare for it.

Herald on Chariot: Still somewhat awkward splitting his attacks between the six actually useful anti-elite/character hunting screamer attacks and the three pretty worthless S3 herald bops, but now that his buff applies to shooting it feels like one of these is pretty much mandatory to run. I'm torn between him and the Disc just for cost, but it's nice to not have your herald just fold to the first enemy character who charges him. A chariot herald can pretty reliably take on a captain or a lieutenant or something and kill him or at least survive to fly away.

Screamers: The flyby attack is actually useful again! I dont' think this got caught in the leaks but it no longer is worded to require the Screamers to Advance, so you can slash a unit for a couple mortal wounds, then charge it. Hooray! This and the lamprey bite change makes screamers a vital second anti-light vehicle choice for tzeentch. I like Exalted Flamers as much as the next guy but more than a single option is always nice.

Nice write up, thanks for sharing Out of curiosity what were you playing against? IG?

Cheeslord wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Anyone else notice the herald of slaanesh is the only one that didn't get a fancy new name? Boy they really like making slaanesh players nervous.

Well it makes sense to keep Slaanesh nerfed down if there is an internal debate about whether to squat the line eventually. Several units removed (though no MODELS as the models can represent other units), and the psychic powers being 3 mediocre and 3 garbage (strategems, traits and artefacts seem to be largely OK, though).

Aside from that, I was quite disappointed that we did not get back all the interesting wargear options from the last codex. I guess they are sticking with the policy of only allowing wargear if there is a suitably shaped bit of plastic on the model sprue to uniquely represent it...

The Exalted Seeker Chariot did get a small buff of +2W for 8pts. I don't really think it is worth its points but I didn't think it was worth its points in Index:Chaos either.

All the psychic powers are average to good. With the smite nerf incoming Slaanesh has 2 other mortal wound generating spells with Cacophonic Choir and Pavane of Slaanesh. Pavane of Slaanesh also has strong scaling power against horde army units There is a lot of -LD things out there for Chaos to make Cacophonic Choir more effective.I think Delightful Agonies is the weakest as this same power exists elsewhere for WCV6 and FNP 5+.

The only weak warlord trait to me is "Celerity of Slaanesh". I have never had a problem with the speed of my HQs. Bewitching Aura + Aura of Acquiescence stratagem. The other warlord traits go well with the artifacts Mark of Excess or Soulstealer sword.

Slaanesh is gaining an interesting niche of the debuffing arming. As it is possible to get enemies a -2 to hit in fight phase and -2 attacks in fight phase. Fighting other horde armies this really de-tooths the enemy or neutering elite cc units like terminators or wulfen.

What hurt Slaanesh in this codex is that our units are still slightly overpriced. Fiends of Slaanesh are not worth 46pts, it is a high 20pt model at best. Daemonettes really should be 5pts or 6pts and Seekers around 15pts. All the chariots really need to be at least as durable as a Rhino or have a drastic point drop, they die too easily as is. Keeper of Secrets even with the new ability is still worst than a Daemon Prince but most Greater Daemons are inferior to a Daemon Prince.

Outside of the Fiends and Seekers, I don't really feel that Slaanesh models are that fast. There are Dark Eldar and Hariqueen troops choices that have a higher movement. With one of the new Nurgle HQs Plaguebeares can be as fast as Daemonettes. I feel that Slaanesh models should be as mobile as the fastest Eldar.

Also, Slaanesh didn't gain a re-roll failed wound universal ability against Eldar is disappointing. Since Codex: Craftworld Eldar got a universal and a stratagem against Slaanesh units.

Although GW has disappointed us for years with Slaanesh I am hoping with the big focus this spring on Elf/Eldar in AoS/40k, is the reason that Slaanesh is underplayed in Codex: Chaos Daemons, for a suppliment codex later this year. To tie in with a larger narrative in both games.

Thanks for your comments.

Personally I am not a big fan of armies getting a specific bonus against other armies unless it is reciprocated, otherwise it cannot be balanced.
Its true that all the other chaos gods have good fast attack options (even Nurgle with plague drones), which does somewhat undermine Slaanesh's main role.

But the Slaanesh psychic powers:
Pavane: maybe OK, can drop a couple of mortal wounds on average (more on hordes, but then the damage done by each wound is less on hordes anyway)

Cacaphonic choir: - you have to get off the power and then it does an average of 0 damage, far worse than any other "smite-like" powers. Only usefull if you go to great lengths to debuff the enemy Ld (and Slaanesh itself doesn't actually have the tools to do that, just 1 psychic power, you need Nurgle, or better yet Night Lords...)

Delightful agonies - 6+FNP for 1 round - pretty worthless

Phantasmagoria - -1Ld is again fairly worthless unless part of a comprehensive Ld debuff tactic using other powers

the one giving -1 to hit to an enemy unit is worthwhile

and the frenzy one is potentially worthwhile, but the timing is not great, requiring you to have units survive 1-2 rounds of combat before they can benefit from it (and this is Slaanesh units, which are not known for their durability). Potentially good on a Slaaneshi DP which could endure that long...

Cheeslord wrote:
Thanks for your comments.

Personally I am not a big fan of armies getting a specific bonus against other armies unless it is reciprocated, otherwise it cannot be balanced.
Its true that all the other chaos gods have good fast attack options (even Nurgle with plague drones), which does somewhat undermine Slaanesh's main role.

But the Slaanesh psychic powers:
Pavane: maybe OK, can drop a couple of mortal wounds on average (more on hordes, but then the damage done by each wound is less on hordes anyway)

Cacaphonic choir: - you have to get off the power and then it does an average of 0 damage, far worse than any other "smite-like" powers. Only usefull if you go to great lengths to debuff the enemy Ld (and Slaanesh itself doesn't actually have the tools to do that, just 1 psychic power, you need Nurgle, or better yet Night Lords...)

Delightful agonies - 6+FNP for 1 round - pretty worthless

Phantasmagoria - -1Ld is again fairly worthless unless part of a comprehensive Ld debuff tactic using other powers

the one giving -1 to hit to an enemy unit is worthwhile

and the frenzy one is potentially worthwhile, but the timing is not great, requiring you to have units survive 1-2 rounds of combat before they can benefit from it (and this is Slaanesh units, which are not known for their durability). Potentially good on a Slaaneshi DP which could endure that long...

All non-vehicle Craftworld Eldar get the special rule “Ancient Doom” which allows Eldar units to reroll failed hits against Slaanesh units if they charged or are charged by a Slaanesh unit. In return they get -1LD taking their army wide LD8 to an LD7. Not that great of a tradeoff for Slaanesh units. There is also a stratagem called “The Great Enemy” for 1CP you can reroll failed wounds against Slaanesh units in the fight phase.

Grey Knights can reroll all failed wounds in the fight phase against Daemons. Which isn’t fun for us.

That is why I was expecting Slaanesh daemons to get something more than 1 relic that has a bonus against Eldar units.

Pavane of Slaanesh and Cacophonic Choir, are definitely “gambler” versions of smite. Pavane even against a 10-man size unit is about the same average damage of smite. There is just the chance of doing 0 mortal wounds on a successful cast.

Slaanesh does have a -LD unit the form of Zarakynel. Who you can deep strike in, cast Phantasmagoria, then Cacophonic Choir, for -3 LD to the enemy. If Zarakynel had her pre Chapter Approved point value I think this combo would make her playable.

1. Cacophonic Choir. Need to set up a leadership bomb. The +2 to the LD roll on psychic test of 11/12 is nice.
2. Symphony of Pain. Goes well with the Masque of Slaanesh’s Locus of Beguilement for Daemonette keyword units.
3. Hysterical Frenzy. I agree on that. Your opponent will just nuke a Fiend of Slaanesh so they won’t stay in combat. Also, useful against fortifications since they can’t call back.
4. Delightful Agonies. Have the CSM would have been great. Still can make an impact on a 30 size Daemonette blob or a 10 size Seeker unit but not something you would cast on a character.
5. Pavane of Slaanesh. About the same as a smite damage wise but with a lower floor and higher ceiling , damage wise.
6. Phantasmagoria. Worth pointing out this is 12” -LD bubble around the psyker. Has some synergy with Cacophonic Choir, or good against Craftworld Eldar units, or low LD armies.

Although I do feel Phantasmagoria is stronger than Cacophonic Choir and they could have dropped Cacophonic Choir for something else. Like rending hits become mortal wounds or something like that.

ntin wrote:

Although GW has disappointed us for years with Slaanesh I am hoping with the big focus this spring on Elf/Eldar in AoS/40k, is the reason that Slaanesh is underplayed in Codex: Chaos Daemons, for a suppliment codex later this year. To tie in with a larger narrative in both games.

I would like to see more for Slaanesh and books akin to battle times, but... That'll be the third book I'd have to buy to use models I have already paid for; because GW sells incomplete products.

 DarkBlack wrote:

ntin wrote:

Although GW has disappointed us for years with Slaanesh I am hoping with the big focus this spring on Elf/Eldar in AoS/40k, is the reason that Slaanesh is underplayed in Codex: Chaos Daemons, for a suppliment codex later this year. To tie in with a larger narrative in both games.

I would like to see more for Slaanesh and books akin to battle times, but... That'll be the third book I'd have to buy to use models I have already paid for; because GW sells incomplete products.

Well would you rather have no Emp Children or Slann Daemon rules until the big book later this year (hopefully) or would you have enjoyed the limited Index rules until then? Yes it's a pain in the ass to have all these individual model rules in so many different books, but the alternative is an army that barely functions and won't win games outside of narrative games.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

ntin wrote:

Although GW has disappointed us for years with Slaanesh I am hoping with the big focus this spring on Elf/Eldar in AoS/40k, is the reason that Slaanesh is underplayed in Codex: Chaos Daemons, for a suppliment codex later this year. To tie in with a larger narrative in both games.

I would like to see more for Slaanesh and books akin to battle times, but... That'll be the third book I'd have to buy to use models I have already paid for; because GW sells incomplete products.

Well would you rather have no Emp Children or Slann Daemon rules until the big book later this year (hopefully) or would you have enjoyed the limited Index rules until then? Yes it's a pain in the ass to have all these individual model rules in so many different books, but the alternative is an army that barely functions and won't win games outside of narrative games.

I am up to 4 books now to play to mono-Slaanesh, rulebook, Chapter Approved, Index: Chaos (3 other Slaanesh heralds), and Codex: Chaos Daemons. I am hoping Slaanesh was barebones because it is supposed to be the year of Slaanesh with the long-rumored Fulgrim and plastic Keeper of Secrets.

Four books was standard in 7ed, just be glad they’re not all hardcover art books for don’t even collect

ntin wrote:
I am hoping Slaanesh was barebones because it is supposed to be the year of Slaanesh with the long-rumored Fulgrim and plastic Keeper of Secrets.

While we do have plastic GDs for the other 3 now, making the KoS a possibility, we only have Primarchs for Tz and Nurgle. Since Slaanesh is always last, we'll have to want for Angron before we get Fulgrim.

But having to have multiple books blows. It was my least favorite part of 7th ed. Considering how many flaws 7th ed had, that should tell you just how much I HATE having to buy more than the core rule book and army codex for the complete rules for a faction.

-

 Galef wrote:

ntin wrote:
I am hoping Slaanesh was barebones because it is supposed to be the year of Slaanesh with the long-rumored Fulgrim and plastic Keeper of Secrets.

While we do have plastic GDs for the other 3 now, making the KoS a possibility, we only have Primarchs for Tz and Nurgle. Since Slaanesh is always last, we'll have to want for Angron before we get Fulgrim.

We had the year of Khorne when AoS was released with tons and tons of Khorne themed models. It's time for Slaanesh. The wheel has come around again.

 andysonic1 wrote:
We had the year of Khorne when AoS was released with tons and tons of Khorne themed models. It's time for Slaanesh. The wheel has come around again.

I totally agree. But I am skeptical if GW feels the same. Slaanesh isn't the best seller for GW, or at least no the best for their target audience (younger players). In general Slaanesh gets "skipped over" more than the other gods.
I'm just sayin', don't have your expectations too high. "Hope is the first step on the road to Disappointment."

-

Well, in 7th we had... 1 Khorne Daemonkin player, three or so Tzeentch, and about 4 Slaanesh players. Don't even remember seeing Nurgle. Two of those Slaanesh players stopped showing, but they were great players and their armies did leave an impression. I think if their models didn't look like crab lady cheerleaders they would do very well.

A couple tournaments coming up soon. Can someone post the cheese highlights I should watch out for, from the codex? There hasn't been much analysis and i haven't actually seen a copy of this book yet.

For example, the Poxwalker replication stratagem is deadly if you don't know about it. Anything like that in here?

 Marmatag wrote:
A couple tournaments coming up soon. Can someone post the cheese highlights I should watch out for, from the codex? There hasn't been much analysis and i haven't actually seen a copy of this book yet.

For example, the Poxwalker replication stratagem is deadly if you don't know about it. Anything like that in here?

Pink Horror and Bloodletter bombs are the main thing to watch out for, I think. If you have a unit that can push out of the deployment zone and deny space to deep strikers, use them. Otherwise... good luck!

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
A couple tournaments coming up soon. Can someone post the cheese highlights I should watch out for, from the codex? There hasn't been much analysis and i haven't actually seen a copy of this book yet.

For example, the Poxwalker replication stratagem is deadly if you don't know about it. Anything like that in here?

Pink Horror and Bloodletter bombs are the main thing to watch out for, I think. If you have a unit that can push out of the deployment zone and deny space to deep strikers, use them. Otherwise... good luck!

Get screens, a lot of screens. Also prepare to see mono-nurgle lists with linchpin HQ choices and regenderating Plaguebearers / other nurgle units.

Well i'm running Tyranids. I've got 60 hormagants or so screening my deployment zone, and a strong assault presence. In general i'm not typically concerned about deep strike shenanigans unless they have massive range and dice, like Tau.

Is the Gaunt Summoner from AoS not in this codex?

The cost of Soul Grinders also bugs me.

For 220pts you can get a Defiler with a Battle Cannon, Combi-Melta, Twin Lascannon, and Havoc Launchers, for 220pts. For 235 pts you can get a Soul Grinder with Phlegm (half range Battle Cannon but always D:3) and a Harvester Cannon.

Defiler and Soul Grinder, have almost the exact same stat line but the Defiler has 1 higher LD than the Soul Grinder. The Soul Grinder has 1 more Attack. The Defiler also gets Infernal Regeneration.

You could also run a cheaper Defiler by dropping the Combi-Melta and Lascannons.

Both units are comparable stat and role wise but the Defiler is a good deal cheaper. To the point, you could take a spearhead CSM detachment with a reasonably kitted out Chaos Lord plus 3 Defilers and still come out cheaper point was than 3 Soul Grinders without an HQ.

I feel like the Soul Grinder should be in the >180pts <200pts range.

So, we're just over a day away from the FAQ/Errata.

What do we think is going to get thrown on there? The obvious is whether CSM Daemons can use stratagems and benefit from auras but what else are we going to see?

I emailed the FAQ team about Hellflayer Chariot and Seekers, not having the daemonette keyword. While the other 2 chariots and Herald of Slaanesh, gained the daemonette keyword.

 mrhappyface wrote:
So, we're just over a day away from the FAQ/Errata.

What do we think is going to get thrown on there? The obvious is whether CSM Daemons can use stratagems and benefit from auras but what else are we going to see?

Only Stratagems are going to get the nerf bat, the Aura's should be fine as that has already been established by the keyword system and previous FAQs, per Frontline Gaming. I also email them about putting Heralds of Khorne in Chaos Drop Pods and they said it was legal. I know that doesn't mean a whole lot to a whole lot of people but it saves me some CP.

I'm hoping for a Bloodcrushers point reductions and a Skullmaster point reduction and a Blood Throne buff to Locus range and speed. I wouldn't mind a point reduction for Chaos Lord on Jugger either lol. A point reduction for Thirsters / Skarbrand would be amazing too.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
So, we're just over a day away from the FAQ/Errata.

What do we think is going to get thrown on there? The obvious is whether CSM Daemons can use stratagems and benefit from auras but what else are we going to see?

Only Stratagems are going to get the nerf bat, the Aura's should be fine as that has already been established by the keyword system and previous FAQs, per Frontline Gaming. I also email them about putting Heralds of Khorne in Chaos Drop Pods and they said it was legal. I know that doesn't mean a whole lot to a whole lot of people but it saves me some CP.

I'm hoping for a Bloodcrushers point reductions and a Skullmaster point reduction and a Blood Throne buff to Locus range and speed. I wouldn't mind a point reduction for Chaos Lord on Jugger either lol. A point reduction for Thirsters / Skarbrand would be amazing too.

The post-release FAQs are clarifications only. Rules changes will be in March and points reductions won'tbe till the next Chapter Approved.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
So, we're just over a day away from the FAQ/Errata.

What do we think is going to get thrown on there? The obvious is whether CSM Daemons can use stratagems and benefit from auras but what else are we going to see?

Only Stratagems are going to get the nerf bat, the Aura's should be fine as that has already been established by the keyword system and previous FAQs, per Frontline Gaming. I also email them about putting Heralds of Khorne in Chaos Drop Pods and they said it was legal. I know that doesn't mean a whole lot to a whole lot of people but it saves me some CP.

I'm hoping for a Bloodcrushers point reductions and a Skullmaster point reduction and a Blood Throne buff to Locus range and speed. I wouldn't mind a point reduction for Chaos Lord on Jugger either lol. A point reduction for Thirsters / Skarbrand would be amazing too.

The post-release FAQs are clarifications only. Rules changes will be in March and points reductions won'tbe till the next Chapter Approved.

There have been point changes in the FAQs thus far, though sparingly. It isn't out of the question.

Last weeks' Dark Angels/Blood Angels/Space Marine, FAQs had errata for new Primaris character weapon options

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

ntin wrote:
I am hoping Slaanesh was barebones because it is supposed to be the year of Slaanesh with the long-rumored Fulgrim and plastic Keeper of Secrets.

While we do have plastic GDs for the other 3 now, making the KoS a possibility, we only have Primarchs for Tz and Nurgle. Since Slaanesh is always last, we'll have to want for Angron before we get Fulgrim.

We had the year of Khorne when AoS was released with tons and tons of Khorne themed models. It's time for Slaanesh. The wheel has come around again.

We have Russ & Angron from list of primarch Hastings said left. I wouldn't expect Fulgrim before those 2 have come up.

ntin wrote:


Slaanesh does have a -LD unit the form of Zarakynel. Who you can deep strike in, cast Phantasmagoria, then Cacophonic Choir, for -3 LD to the enemy. If Zarakynel had her pre Chapter Approved point value I think this combo would make her playable.

I have not heard of her. Where does she come from?

Mark.

Cheeslord wrote:

ntin wrote:


Slaanesh does have a -LD unit the form of Zarakynel. Who you can deep strike in, cast Phantasmagoria, then Cacophonic Choir, for -3 LD to the enemy. If Zarakynel had her pre Chapter Approved point value I think this combo would make her playable.

I have not heard of her. Where does she come from?

Mark.

Forgeworld KoS

tneva82 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

ntin wrote:
I am hoping Slaanesh was barebones because it is supposed to be the year of Slaanesh with the long-rumored Fulgrim and plastic Keeper of Secrets.

While we do have plastic GDs for the other 3 now, making the KoS a possibility, we only have Primarchs for Tz and Nurgle. Since Slaanesh is always last, we'll have to want for Angron before we get Fulgrim.

We had the year of Khorne when AoS was released with tons and tons of Khorne themed models. It's time for Slaanesh. The wheel has come around again.

We have Russ & Angron from list of primarch Hastings said left. I wouldn't expect Fulgrim before those 2 have come up.

Got a link to those rumors?

Well faq is up. No deep strike withou chaos daemon faction keyword