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Well, if you read my original post, it was actually a question more than a debate, but anyhow.

I did read it. You said Necrons and Dark Eldar are fairly okay for models and I disagree at least in the case of Dark Eldar. At least when compared to space marines. I get that marines are always going to be GW's favorite faction but there are some things that really need updates from the other races and have needed them for years. Dark Eldar though have literally around half their range in failcast.

I had forgotten the deffkopta (I am fortunate enough to have 9 Black Reach plastic ones, that may be why), but I had mentioned the two main finecast offenders- Kommandoes and Tank busters. When it comes down to it though, there are only 5 non-character units that need updates. Personally I quite like the bikes, but they are ageing. Regarding characters (for which Orks are pretty well served compared to many) see below.

Fair enough. I will say I do not understand why the Black Reach Koptas were never used in place of the awful looking current ones. One of the things that baffles me though is the fact that Ghazghkull - essentially the main ork character - has still not been updated. It's the same with Abbadon. I just don't get it. Also weren't there new chaos space marine models for the 6th edition starter set? Why weren't they used in place of the current ones?

I may have exaggerated with Orks as I don't think they are anywhere near as bad as Eldar or Dark Eldar but I still feel they really need some attention.

I'm not sure if the Ynnead lore suggests neglect, or just a war over the Aeldari souls. Eitherway, I personally hope that Slannesh are last because they are spending more time on getting Slannesh right. The CSM side is non-sexual in any way though, so that should be relatively easy in comparison to the Daemons.

I meant that Ynnead suggests that they are planning on killing her off, as well as what happened in AoS. Simply looking at the models and the rules though you can see they have been neglected. I kind of got the impression that GW wanted to move away from Slaanesh due to the sexual nature of her ( which if it is the case is asinine considering the amount of graphic violence in 40k). For the record I HOPE I am wrong as I like Slaanesh a lot.



The funny thing is that I actually got what I wanted from warhammer fest. A new forge world Necron canoptek walker. So I'm actually happy but I imagine if I played different xenos race I would be very disappointed.

Super excited at the prospect of the Necron Walker.

I do wish we could get our missing Characters from IA13 at some point though.

Mental Surge wrote:

Well, if you read my original post, it was actually a question more than a debate, but anyhow.

I did read it. You said Necrons and Dark Eldar are fairly okay for models and I disagree at least in the case of Dark Eldar. At least when compared to space marines. I get that marines are always going to be GW's favorite faction but there are some things that really need updates from the other races and have needed them for years. Dark Eldar though have literally around half their range in failcast.

Ah, that is entirely fair. I think a lot of my viewpoint on Dark Eldar is because they have such lovely core models, which goes a long way to disguising the extent of the range that is still poor.

I had forgotten the deffkopta (I am fortunate enough to have 9 Black Reach plastic ones, that may be why), but I had mentioned the two main finecast offenders- Kommandoes and Tank busters. When it comes down to it though, there are only 5 non-character units that need updates. Personally I quite like the bikes, but they are ageing. Regarding characters (for which Orks are pretty well served compared to many) see below.

Fair enough. I will say I do not understand why the Black Reach Koptas were never used in place of the awful looking current ones. One of the things that baffles me though is the fact that Ghazghkull - essentially the main ork character - has still not been updated. It's the same with Abbadon. I just don't get it. Also weren't there new chaos space marine models for the 6th edition starter set? Why weren't they used in place of the current ones?

I don't understand either, I love my Black Reach deffkoptas! I really think Abaddon and Ghaz do need new models, but I also think they are waiting for the correct campaign to introduce them. Although I don't know why they missed the opportunity when they released Guilliman in the Cadia campaign.

I may have exaggerated with Orks as I don't think they are anywhere near as bad as Eldar or Dark Eldar but I still feel they really need some attention.

They do, but then just about every faction except vanilla Marines needs some attention, including some of the snowflake Marines when it comes to characters. I think we are rather spoilt by how complete the ranges are nowadays, but it is annoyingly close to having plastic options for everything, and I hope a final push is made to complete the ranges for each faction.

I'm not sure if the Ynnead lore suggests neglect, or just a war over the Aeldari souls. Eitherway, I personally hope that Slannesh are last because they are spending more time on getting Slannesh right. The CSM side is non-sexual in any way though, so that should be relatively easy in comparison to the Daemons.

I meant that Ynnead suggests that they are planning on killing her off, as well as what happened in AoS. Simply looking at the models and the rules though you can see they have been neglected. I kind of got the impression that GW wanted to move away from Slaanesh due to the sexual nature of her ( which if it is the case is asinine considering the amount of graphic violence in 40k). For the record I HOPE I am wrong as I like Slaanesh a lot.

Yeah, I hope they rejuvenate Slaanesh. If they do decide to stop supporting it, I think a slow slide into obscurity with no further model support would be more likely than outright squatting. Anyway, I believe we are wandering off-topic...

The funny thing is that I actually got what I wanted from warhammer fest. A new forge world Necron canoptek walker. So I'm actually happy but I imagine if I played different xenos race I would be very disappointed.

The walker is nice! I'd like to see FW do a couple of Necron character sculpts though. I think that is unlikely considering the resources needed for HH characters, but I'm sure they could do a good job.

I keep hoping for a surprise Primaris Overlord flyer or something but it is hard to be disapointed when they put out rad sculpts like this Necron walker. Necrons could use more cool and flashy FW stuff so this is a happy addition.

Mental Surge wrote:

Who said I am not used to space marines getting everything? I got used to that a long time ago. That does not at all mean I cant voice my displeasure with it. I have a right as a customer to speak my mind and neglecting the xenos races out of pure bias is worth calling out. That is a very poor attitude (or perhaps extremely biased if you are a space marine player which I am betting you are) to just accept it and not speak out against it. Am I surprised that space marines always get everything? of course not. But does that mean I am happy about it? Hell no.

And no, I am pretty sure even GW realizes that failcast is awful. With the constant complaints they get all the time in regards to it, do you really think all the new models (characters or not) are plastic for no reason? Also them thinking it's a quality matieral doesnt make it a quality material. In fact if that's the case then we should be speaking out to tell them it's not if they can't figure it out themselves.

I wasn't so much arguing, just explaining how I see current GW and forgeworld.
My three current armies dies include marines, though thankfully I got most of my marine mini's before failcast.
Personally failcast needs to be burnt out of existence in the deepest parts of hell by the person who came up with that abomination but the few times I vist a GW store I've had them try to sell me failcast copies of model I already have in metal as its better than metal

Marines since 2nd edition
Tau since 3rd edition
Sisters of silence army in work since last year.
I agree that xeno need some love from GW, but FW have to support HH on their own plus xeno, so inevitably marines as 90% of heresy is marines vrs marines will benifit more from 30k.

Outside of that I get the impression that FW just kinda do what looks cool if someone has an idea, they aren't deliberately neglected its just each sculptor etc will have their own pet projects that they will drive outside of the corporate drive for 30k.

I love that Scoria model. It's kinda looks like what I had planned out as a homebrew conversion before I sold all my HH Mechanicum stuff. I still might pick it up just to have and paint, he would look so nice with the bone and grey Xana II colour scheme. Alpharius looks aces also. Adeptus Titanicus looks great for now. Just remember people this is how it all started before. First it was Adeptus Titanticus ( HH titans fighting) then Space Marine, then Codex Titanicus ( adding in the other races titans Eldar and orks.)

So hopefully in a few years we will get a full blown Epic scale game again....probley not but one can hope eh?

PS I also like how they are releasing just the rules so if you have models from before you can use those instead of the new plastic models, good work FW.

PPS Krole looks amazing also...the unhelmted head tho...well I guess I'll have to see it in person and it look wonky in those pics.

so any thoughts???
... this keeps getting scarier by the week
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/searchResults?N=3947026521+4198382931

Why do new releases when you can have more stuff go OOP instead? I just don't get it, previously it seemed like they were dumping 40k stuff for 30k, but with key stuff like the weapons going OOP how are you even going to build a 30k army anymore? The only thing I can think of is that FW is implicitly conceding the entire market to the recasters and only trying to generate sales for the newest releases.

The MKiii Heavy support squad makes sense to discontinue, because you could use the underslung weapons and combine with Prosepero Burns.

But holy fething gak...they're getting rid of weapon upgrades? Why???? This is an insane business decision.

Also, the Command squads are gorgeous and very flavourful models, this is starting to look like HH is just going to turn into identical Calth marines painted in different colours with maybe a few tanks thrown in.

I almost panic bought a lot of the sets. But then I noticed these are the lame looking weapons, like shoulder mounter plasma cannons, WW2 heavy bolters and such. They are still keeping newer - and better looking, imo - weapons.

 CragHack wrote:
I almost panic bought a lot of the sets. But then I noticed these are the lame looking weapons, like shoulder mounter plasma cannons, WW2 heavy bolters and such. They are still keeping newer - and better looking, imo - weapons.

They're dumping the stuff that doesn't sell.

I wonder if its just a result of FW having seeded Marines and Imperials with too many upgrade packs coupled to FW being a limited market system. So as FW is taken on producing more full models for other systems they are having to drop resources from remaking and producing upgrade packs that might have sold at far fewer numbers.

I do like upgrade packs as a concept, but FW was always expensive for them and had a very heavy marine/Imperial bias to them.

Vorian wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
I almost panic bought a lot of the sets. But then I noticed these are the lame looking weapons, like shoulder mounter plasma cannons, WW2 heavy bolters and such. They are still keeping newer - and better looking, imo - weapons.

They're dumping the stuff that doesn't sell.

Well, no gak. They are ugly, no one bought them, they have the same, but better looking upgrades which aren't on last chance to buy, so they would better be without these. MK2 command, on the other hand, is a unique piece.

Whoops, it seems like the whole MKII range is going away. My congrats to FW website not updating.

 CragHack wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
I almost panic bought a lot of the sets. But then I noticed these are the lame looking weapons, like shoulder mounter plasma cannons, WW2 heavy bolters and such. They are still keeping newer - and better looking, imo - weapons.

They're dumping the stuff that doesn't sell.

Well, no gak. They are ugly, no one bought them, they have the same, but better looking upgrades which aren't on last chance to buy, so they would better be without these. MK2 command, on the other hand, is a unique piece.

Sure, unique, but how many people are going to buy Mk2 command when they have used the Mk3&4 plastics as the basis of their army.

Evidently the answer is not many.

I've emailed them my concern. I don't see why they can't just go "made to order"

Some upgrades, like the graviton guns, chain axes etc, aren't available in any other kits. This will just blandify the game or drive people to 3rd parties


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but a ton of other upgrades and complete kits are now displaying the following note

"Due to increased demand, this product could take 35 days to ship"

Calling it now. Soon all we will have is Legion specific units, Primarchs and vehicles.

The really baffling thing is that they are planning on releasing new vehicle doors for certain legions, while completely gutting the lines for specific upgrades on infantry.

 aracersss wrote:
so any thoughts???
... this keeps getting scarier by the week
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/searchResults?N=3947026521+4198382931

Seems the trend continues. MKIV and MKIII plastics have eaten sales of resin equilavents so dead that making resin models just ain't worth it so they and support kits for them goes away. Note how heavy weapons are all the ones designed to work with those resin heavy weapon teams. The ones that work with plastic ones stay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why do new releases when you can have more stuff go OOP instead? I just don't get it, previously it seemed like they were dumping 40k stuff for 30k, but with key stuff like the weapons going OOP how are you even going to build a 30k army anymore? The only thing I can think of is that FW is implicitly conceding the entire market to the recasters and only trying to generate sales for the newest releases.

Buy MKIV, buy weapon kits for them?

If they don't manage to sell resin infantry why sell kits designed for said resin infantry when they can instead sell resin kits designed to work with plastic kit that sells...

"Yeah nobody buys our resin infantry so let's produce kits for them!" Yeah that's smart....NOT!

Hrm... Might need to think about getting a load of the Phobos bolters then, if i still want to go ahead with my Carcharodon project.

 KorPhaeron77 wrote:
I've emailed them my concern. I don't see why they can't just go "made to order"

Maybe they figure it wouldn't be likely they would sell after price hike it would require to make it worth the effort...Too little sales, they bleed money doing it.

Calling it now. Soon all we will have is Legion specific units, Primarchs and vehicles.

And MKIV&MKIII and their support kits.

while completely gutting the lines for specific upgrades on infantry.

For resin infantry which dont' sell because there's plastic version you get 30+2 HQ+dreadnought for less than 20 resin without even weapons...

For all the coolness of MKII, MKV and MKVI armour clearly there's not enough fans for them to buy compared to plastic kits.

tneva82 wrote:
For resin infantry which dont' sell because there's plastic version you get 30+2 HQ+dreadnought for less than 20 resin without even weapons...

For all the coolness of MKII, MKV and MKVI armour clearly there's not enough fans for them to buy compared to plastic kits.

The plastic kits are useless without weapons. How do you arm them if all the weapons are OOP?

Most of the weapons going away either have identical but newer kits available, other marks of the same weapons available or already exist on the plastic sprues.

 Peregrine wrote:

The plastic kits are useless without weapons. How do you arm them if all the weapons are OOP?

The only thing that's a concern is the Tartaros set with the storm shield and the graviton set. Everything else you can pretty much do with alternative sets

 Peregrine wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
For resin infantry which dont' sell because there's plastic version you get 30+2 HQ+dreadnought for less than 20 resin without even weapons...

For all the coolness of MKII, MKV and MKVI armour clearly there's not enough fans for them to buy compared to plastic kits.

The plastic kits are useless without weapons. How do you arm them if all the weapons are OOP?

With... the plastic weapons?

Not only did they just end free shipping on £100 orders, but the Grey Knight MkIV Dreadnought is no longer available - just as they announced Grey Knights will be in the next Imperial Armour Book.

Jeeze that’s a slaughter. I always kinda preferred mark 2 to 3 in artwork and was heavily surprised when a third heresy boardgame never materialised with that or mark 5 last year.

Vorian wrote:
With... the plastic weapons?

Which plastic weapons are those? Are you talking about converting them with plastic 40k weapons which are only available by buying 40k kits that give you newer armor that can't be used in 30k? Because I sure don't see anything in the plastic 30k kits that provides a practical way to create heavy/special weapon squads.

changemod wrote:
Jeeze that’s a slaughter. I always kinda preferred mark 2 to 3 in artwork and was heavily surprised when a third heresy boardgame never materialised with that or mark 5 last year.

FW not allowed to do another 30k boxset as they kept embarrassing the main studio. Calth outsold the AoS starter at launch by a huge amount and to a lesser extent the 40k starter for which sales tanked for 3minths after launch.
Then they did it again with Prospero which crushed the main studios sales figures even comparing 12 months of AoS sales against 1 month of Prospero made grim reading.

So the chances of seeing a 3rd set that would beat up the Primaris
and steal there lunch money is slim.

SeanDrake wrote:
FW not allowed to do another 30k boxset as they kept embarrassing the main studio. Calth outsold the AoS starter at launch by a huge amount and to a lesser extent the 40k starter for which sales tanked for 3minths after launch.
Then they did it again with Prospero which crushed the main studios sales figures even comparing 12 months of AoS sales against 1 month of Prospero made grim reading.

So the chances of seeing a 3rd set that would beat up the Primas and steal there lunch money is slim.

I was about to say I don't believe this, no successful company could possibly be this stupid, but then I remembered this is GW we're talking about and it's almost certainly true.

 Peregrine wrote:

Vorian wrote:
With... the plastic weapons?

Which plastic weapons are those? Are you talking about converting them with plastic 40k weapons which are only available by buying 40k kits that give you newer armor that can't be used in 30k? Because I sure don't see anything in the plastic 30k kits that provides a practical way to create heavy/special weapon squads.

You do know they haven't got rid of all the weapon sets, right? Just the old ones, most of which have a newer version still available.

To me, the shock is in seeing the unique 30K weapons going away: the graviton and volkite.

Graviton is a surprise, but the volkite is just one version of the 2 available, so not a huge deal.