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 Peregrine wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
FW not allowed to do another 30k boxset as they kept embarrassing the main studio. Calth outsold the AoS starter at launch by a huge amount and to a lesser extent the 40k starter for which sales tanked for 3minths after launch.
Then they did it again with Prospero which crushed the main studios sales figures even comparing 12 months of AoS sales against 1 month of Prospero made grim reading.

So the chances of seeing a 3rd set that would beat up the Primas and steal there lunch money is slim.

I was about to say I don't believe this, no successful company could possibly be this stupid, but then I remembered this is GW we're talking about and it's almost certainly true.

Except FW didn't make the plastic boxsets, at least one of those boxes (I think Prospero) had the rules written by James Hewitt, who at the time was part of GW's main rules team, nothing to do with the FW team.

And of course Prospero outsold any other box set available at the time, it had Custodes and Sisters of Silence in for the first time ever.

Peregrine, the only set that doesnt have another resin or plastic equivalent is the Heavy Flamer, which sorta does out of Sternguard and Blood Angel tactical kits. The heavy bolter and missile launcher are in plastic, and most people starting a heresy army are probably picking up at least 2 boxes of calth or prospero. Which will give you a min heavy weapon squad with a spare.

Half the heavy weapons are for the old heavy weapons squads they make, and have whatever-pattern equivalents. I looked.

The shotgun and graviton gun special weapons dont, but if you really want those you can use the scout shotguns and do some knife work, or, the Deathwatch Shotguns. Thr grav gun Gw makes which looks better, since the grav isnt used in heresy otherwise.

The Cataphractii and Tartaros weapons are for the resin kits, which im sure will get the axe soon as well.

It sucks that MK2 is going, but, it has the same general aesthetic as 3.

Bolters make sense to get the axe as well, since, you know, the plastic come with bolters.

This is all fat they are trimming, which is good stuff to get rid of when they have to make room anyways.

I guess that 30k bubble finally burst.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Thr grav gun Gw makes which looks better, since the grav isnt used in heresy otherwise.

Err, slight problem there chief - those guns are in the Heresy era as well, they have different rules. There are no GW/FW alternatives to the FW Grav Gun.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Peregrine, the only set that doesnt have another resin or plastic equivalent is the Heavy Flamer, which sorta does out of Sternguard and Blood Angel tactical kits.

But which ones have a plastic 30k equivalent? I get that you can buy some 40k devastator squads for lascannons and maybe convert them to work, but then you're throwing away money on a bunch of marine bodies that you can't use in 30k.

(And no, the other 30k pattern weapons aren't compatible. If you want, say, a FW MkIV heavy support squad, a kit that is still on sale, you need the shoulder-mounted heavy weapons that are going OOP. The hip-fired ones that aren't going OOP won't work with that kit.)

Id like to think any idiot who is doing the basic research and has been in the GW hobby long enough to even know of both Forge World and Horus Heresy knows that you can simply get the plastic version for less then the price of a resin five man squad and a pair of hip fired weapon kits, but I suppose one or two people might have issues.

I think you are just trying to find an issue that doesnt really exist.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Id like to think any idiot who is doing the basic research and has been in the GW hobby long enough to even know of both Forge World and Horus Heresy knows that you can simply get the plastic version for less then the price of a resin five man squad and a pair of hip fired weapon kits, but I suppose one or two people might have issues.

Except you can't get the plastic version because there isn't a plastic version in the 30k-era armor patterns, a detail many 30k players care very strongly about. Just look at the various threads about proposals to ban 40k-era marine models from 30k games. And regardless of your opinions of the merits of the kit, FW is still going to be selling a heavy weapon squad kit that no longer has its required finishing components available to buy. FW might as well include a note with each kit saying "lol, good luck finding a decent recaster to finish your stuff".

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I guess that 30k bubble finally burst.

Not really just the FW price bubble bursting £44 for a full squad of conversion parts on top of the actual squad cost was/is insane when yo might need 3 sets.
Whatever your opinion on recasts the fact is the same parts are about £12-15 From China with a comparable quality and time to deliver in some cases.
I know it's futile but if FW prices were not in some cases insane then they might actually sell some of these slow moving kits. But hey I guess selling 1 or 2 items for a 300%+ margin makes the fell better than selling dozens for slightly less margin.

...the plastic Mk3 and Mk4 marines, with the hipfire options from Forge World. Its how im doing my MK4 devastators.

Its absolutely sloppy that they arent discontinuing the other heavy weapon teams, but they are getting rid of the resin cataphractii options without getting rid of those models as well, so im sure we will see it in the next week or so.

SeanDrake wrote:
Whatever your opinion on recasts the fact is the same parts are about £12-15 From China with a comparable quality and time to deliver in some cases.

Or they're $0 if you steal them off the shelf at your local store. I'm not really sure why you're comparing illegal recasts of stolen IP to legitimate items from the original manufacturer and thinking that it means something.

SeanDrake wrote:

changemod wrote:
Jeeze that’s a slaughter. I always kinda preferred mark 2 to 3 in artwork and was heavily surprised when a third heresy boardgame never materialised with that or mark 5 last year.

FW not allowed to do another 30k boxset as they kept embarrassing the main studio. Calth outsold the AoS starter at launch by a huge amount and to a lesser extent the 40k starter for which sales tanked for 3minths after launch.
Then they did it again with Prospero which crushed the main studios sales figures even comparing 12 months of AoS sales against 1 month of Prospero made grim reading.

What a freaking shock that a box containing 30 Tactical Marines, 5 Terminators, a Dreadnought, and two generic HQ choices valued at $325 for $150 was a hotseller.
What a freaking shock as well that a box containing 30 Tacticals, 5 Terminators, 5 Sisters of Silence, 5 Custodes, and 2 Legion specific heroes(both of whom are only available in that set still) valued at $310 for $150 was a hotseller as well. That $310 isn't including the Legion specific heroes as well, since they're not available elsewhere and would likely be $30 each rather than $25.

I mean, what exactly do you think you're proving? That 40k's more popular than AoS? That discount boxes sell better than non-discount boxes?

 Peregrine wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Whatever your opinion on recasts the fact is the same parts are about £12-15 From China with a comparable quality and time to deliver in some cases.

Or they're $0 if you steal them off the shelf at your local store. I'm not really sure why you're comparing illegal recasts of stolen IP to legitimate items from the original manufacturer and thinking that it means something.

The point is that the recasters can offer the same service, and still make a profit, at a much lower cost. FW has development costs to shoulder as well, but they still probably make a huge profit margin on each kit over their production and development costs.

They probably need to rethink their pricing for such kits to have a lower margin, but a higher volume of kits sold. That would make the recasters less appealing to people if the official models are not too much more expensive.

 Haighus wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Whatever your opinion on recasts the fact is the same parts are about £12-15 From China with a comparable quality and time to deliver in some cases.

Or they're $0 if you steal them off the shelf at your local store. I'm not really sure why you're comparing illegal recasts of stolen IP to legitimate items from the original manufacturer and thinking that it means something.

The point is that the recasters can offer the same service, and still make a profit, at a much lower cost. FW has development costs to shoulder as well, but they still probably make a huge profit margin on each kit over their production and development costs.

They probably need to rethink their pricing for such kits to have a lower margin, but a higher volume of kits sold. That would make the recasters less appealing to people if the official models are not too much more expensive.

Awful argument. The costs FW incurs are not remotely the same as what recasters incur. They can afford to be massively cheap, because they put in none of the work to make the product.

warl0rdb0b wrote:
Graviton is a surprise, but the volkite is just one version of the 2 available, so not a huge deal.

Ah, you're right, there is still a set of volkite culverins remaining. I feel better now. Let the CHOOM continue!

Looks like I can't make that Death Guard Reaping army now. That's a shame.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Whatever your opinion on recasts the fact is the same parts are about £12-15 From China with a comparable quality and time to deliver in some cases.

Or they're $0 if you steal them off the shelf at your local store. I'm not really sure why you're comparing illegal recasts of stolen IP to legitimate items from the original manufacturer and thinking that it means something.

The point is that the recasters can offer the same service, and still make a profit, at a much lower cost. FW has development costs to shoulder as well, but they still probably make a huge profit margin on each kit over their production and development costs.

They probably need to rethink their pricing for such kits to have a lower margin, but a higher volume of kits sold. That would make the recasters less appealing to people if the official models are not too much more expensive.

Awful argument. The costs FW incurs are not remotely the same as what recasters incur. They can afford to be massively cheap, because they put in none of the work to make the product.

Awful argument, if the costs FW incurs equals an additional £30 a kit in this case then they need to stop paying there designers £30000+ a year. Yes FW designed and sculpted them but these are salaried staff not artisans handcrafting each kit individually, I understand to an extent on the character figs and tanks that prices reflect most customers only wanting 1 of an item but on stuff intended for volume sales then prices need to be a little more realistic. I figure even without China that sales of these items probably sucked and I can think of a few other things likely to disappear in the near future.

My point as was skilfully missed by some people is there was no reason other than greed for these kits to be as exspensive as they were they are an item designed to be sold in volume but then priced at literally near to there weight in gold.

Added to this legal or not we got to see new GW react to competition and it was pretty much as expected if our margins cannot be similar to Prada or Rolex we are not interested. They would rather sell a handful of kits at triple figure margins then sell thousands at lower margin even at a loss of profits if it encourages the mind set that they are a luxury brand.

It's fascinating that you seem to have this great insiders knowledge of their costs, labour, taxes and utilities to have such an explicit knowledge of their costs and pricing strategy. Please enlighten us to all this detail.

Actually, can we get back on topic and continue that line of discussion elsewhere?

How is this not on topic?

FW just put up a bunch of "Last Chance" stuff, and people are discussing it.

 Peregrine wrote:
And regardless of your opinions of the merits of the kit, FW is still going to be selling a heavy weapon squad kit that no longer has its required finishing components available to buy.

Check this page again in a week.

This is all moot anyway. As soon as 40k Guilliman discovers that the Cockatrice Maledictum enables time travel, 30k is gonna go full Primaris.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
It's fascinating that you seem to have this great insiders knowledge of their costs, labour, taxes and utilities to have such an explicit knowledge of their costs and pricing strategy. Please enlighten us to all this detail.

well labour is easy they have a full website of the salaries they pay, there costs for materials are again relatively easy to extrapolate a number of other manufacturers have spoken about mold and resin costs, but we cannot take into account any advantages of bulk discounts or of in house production but since these would increase profits that’s less of an issue. The taxes and utilities are cost of business and should not effect an individual product of a company GW’s greatly.

Pricincing strategy is easy and comes to “as much as possible”, I had an interview a number of years ago in which I got to speak to senior people from the business side of the company and was advised at the time that in the stores the lowest margin item they carried was 85% but with most items being much higher and often in treble digits. As an aside I believe the item in question was the paint, they did tell me one of the highest margins were the tools.

Ill be honest. I buy Primarchs, characters, rule books, transfer sheets, and sometimes legion specific units from forgeworld. All of my infantry are Calth and Prospero plastics from Gw.

Every upgraded shoulder pad, torso, helmet and any heavy/special weapons and bigger tanks I buy from a select few recasters. These parts are all immaculate in quality. So FW cleaning out these items really dosent bother me too much. The upgrade kits and weapons were way to expensive to justify purchasing from them. I support FW and GW through the majority of my purchases, I dont feel bad about buying from recasters to pimp my legion out.

As my gaming group tend to play really big games of HH, I have 30,000 points of Salamanders, consisting of almost 500 Power Armored Infantry, so you can imagine how much money that would be if I purchased every single shoulder pad from FW.

I feel as if FW just kinda gave up over the whole recaster thing. If they made more incentive to buy from them, say offer a discount as well as free shipping with orders over a certain value. Just my thoughts.

they did tell me one of the highest margins were the tools.

Referring to items to aid assembly of models, or the customers?

Fun fact: the e-mail update refers to MkIV dreadnoughts and arms being for the chop, but they haven't been marked as such. So panic buy grab those for future projects now if you want them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:

they did tell me one of the highest margins were the tools.

Referring to items to aid assembly of models, or the customers?

Cheeky. Though, considering he had an interview with "senior people" he could have spoken to Merrit who meant it literally

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How is this not on topic?

FW just put up a bunch of "Last Chance" stuff, and people are discussing it.

I think she's talking about the discussion of recasting. Personally, I don't buy that it's the root cause, or DKOK would have been the first to go.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Personally, I don't buy that it's the root cause, or DKOK would have been the first to go.

To be fair, we've lost the grenadier kit with nothing more than vague promises that someday it might return. Is FW being honest, or have they just decided to let the recasters have DKoK and never bother fixing the molds once they wear out?

Man, Elysian lost their whole line and nary a peep beyond "bummer" Non-essential HH products go and people act like HH is dead.
I honestly don't get why they had doubles in the first place, all these super special kits must not have sold that well.

 Peregrine wrote:


To be fair, we've lost the grenadier kit with nothing more than vague promises that someday it might return. Is FW being honest, or have they just decided to let the recasters have DKoK and never bother fixing the molds once they wear out?

No idea, I do know however that recasters are doing a brisk business in them, with many offering the whole line rather than a handful of selections like HH or Elysians. In all honesty I suspect that FW is getting ready to make a major shift in it's business model.

 zedmeister wrote:
Fun fact: the e-mail update refers to MkIV dreadnoughts and arms being for the chop, but they haven't been marked as such. So panic buy grab those for future projects now if you want them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:

they did tell me one of the highest margins were the tools.

Referring to items to aid assembly of models, or the customers?

Cheeky. Though, considering he had an interview with "senior people" he could have spoken to Merrit who meant it literally

lol nope sure they were referring to the actual tools, I met Merrit he seemed pleasant enough and of the people I met was the only one who asked If I played there games and discussed them before I got to the studios. He looked pretty harrased but it was in the middle of the CH debacle so that was understandable.

The interview was with the heads of Sales and marketing plus HR and I could not tell you there names if my life depended on it. They were never derogatory of there customers but they did consider them mostly as wallets with legs and no self control, but that is more or less the same of anyone from Sales or Marketing in any large retailer.

My main impression was how unorganized the company seemed to be compared to previous employers despite having a massive lead up time on releases. I also got the impression that they were not hiring for aptitude long before Kirbys famous statement, we were talking and the forth coming release of Dawn of War 2 was mentioned and I asked what tie in promotions/advertisements or products they had planned and they just looked at me blankly.

So, any bets of when the Necron Unit will go on sale with rules? It appears to be done already, so I can't imagine it will be too long. I don't really know how long it takes once they show it off.