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SeanDrake wrote: Whatever your opinion on recasts the fact is the same parts are about £12-15 From China with a comparable quality and time to deliver in some cases.
Or they're $0 if you steal them off the shelf at your local store. I'm not really sure why you're comparing illegal recasts of stolen IP to legitimate items from the original manufacturer and thinking that it means something.
The point is that the recasters can offer the same service, and still make a profit, at a much lower cost. FW has development costs to shoulder as well, but they still probably make a huge profit margin on each kit over their production and development costs.
They probably need to rethink their pricing for such kits to have a lower margin, but a higher volume of kits sold. That would make the recasters less appealing to people if the official models are not too much more expensive.
Awful argument. The costs FW incurs are not remotely the same as what recasters incur. They can afford to be massively cheap, because they put in none of the work to make the product.
That does not at all justify the costs. Recasters prove that FW can sell them for far less if they want to but they clearly don't because greed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: It's fascinating that you seem to have this great insiders knowledge of their costs, labour, taxes and utilities to have such an explicit knowledge of their costs and pricing strategy. Please enlighten us to all this detail.
If recasters can do it then why can't FW? Are you telling me that Recasters have access to some technology that FW doesnt and that gives them the ability to produce these models at a much lower price?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 20:04:40
Doesn't matter. It's Forgeworld's product to sell how they wish. We could argue back and forth about Chinese v UK labour costs, workplace costs, cheap toxic resin costs, etc. But, at the end of the day, Forgeworld has put a product to market that they have priced at a certain level, as is their right, and immoral counterfeiters are piggy backing off of it and unscrupulous buyers are happy to take advantage of.
zedmeister wrote: Doesn't matter. It's Forgeworld's product to sell how they wish. We could argue back and forth about Chinese v UK labour costs, workplace costs, cheap toxic resin costs, etc. But, at the end of the day, Forgeworld has put a product to market that they have priced at a certain level, as is their right, and immoral counterfeiters are piggy backing off of it and unscrupulous buyers are happy to take advantage of.
Uhhh I think you missed the point. The point is that FW has no one but themselves to blame for people buying from recasters. No one is saying they are not within their rights to charge whatever they want, but they shouldnt be surprised if they are losing business. If they werent so greedy they wouldnt have this issue to begin with. Or at the very least the issue would not be anywhere near as prevalent. If it's their right to charge absurd prices then it's my right to buy from recasters.
Honestly though to call people unscrupulous because they want to buy the product for a reasonable price is kind of ignorant and close-minded. You are essentially telling people who want to get into 40k/30k but cant because they simply dont have the money to invest in it, amoral when in reality it's GW that created this issue to begin with. GW has NO ONE but themselves to blame for recasters. If you are going to charge some ludicrous prices for these models you better expect for people to buy from recasters. Especially when you look at how absurd the prices are in certain countries. look at Australia and New Zealand ffs. A box of FIVE Immortals costs 64$ in New Zealand. In the UK it costs 20 BP, which is about 39 New Zealand Dollars. That's about a 60% increase in cost.... for some reason. That is a straight up insult and GW has only themselves to blame for people wanting a cheaper alternative. But yes it's the customers who are unscrupulous here, right?
I would also add that recasters can help the hobby. For instance someone might invest into the hobby if they can get some products much cheaper. Even if they buy a SINGLE model from GW, that's one more model that GW sells that they might otherwise not sell if the person cant justify the financial investment to simply get into warhammer. Also someone who buys a model from a recaster probably would not have bought the model from GW/FW to begin with since they obviously can't justify the cost.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Is there a normal amount of time Forgeworld waits after previewing something to releasing it? Trying to guage how long im waiting for the necron thing
Don't know. I would really like to know when the new Necron construct is coming out as well. The best thing shown at warhamemr fest by far for me . Still wish we get some named characters from Forge World as well like Xun'Bakyr - a badass female necron character that has never gotten a model.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/19 22:44:53
But yes it's the customers who are unscrupulous here, right?
Um, yes.. that's how morality and the law work when someone knowingly and voluntarily seeks out counterfeit luxury goods. And I say that as a relentless critic of GW's pricing. Last I checked, no Western nation guarantees free or even affordable access to every unnecessary want their citizens desire. Gw is free to charge whatever they want and customers are free to ignore them if what they're asking is unreasonable. Do I personally care if others buy recasts? No, not at all, in large part because I agree that GWFW prices are ridiculous...but call a spade a spade and don't pretend that they're not breaking the law nor that they're occupying some imaginary Robin Hoodesque morale high ground either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 23:00:58
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
But yes it's the customers who are unscrupulous here, right?
Um, yes.. that's how morality and the law work when someone knowingly and voluntarily seeks out counterfeit luxury goods. And I say that as a relentless critic of GW's pricing. Last I checked, no Western nation guarantees free or even affordable access to every want their citizens desire. Gw is free to charge whatever they want and customers are free to ignore them if what they're asking is unreasonable. Do I personally care if others but recasts? No, not at all in large part because I agree that GWs prices are ridiculous...but call a spade a spade and don't pretend that they're not breaking the law not that they're occupying some imaginary Robin Hoodesque morale high ground either.
Ummm no, that's now how morality works. Just because you are legally within your rights does not mean you are morally in the right to purposely charge 60% more to another country for no reason. Is there a 60% import tax that I am unaware of?
You didnt actually read anything I said did you? I literally said "Gw is within their rights to charge however much they want". No one is arguing against that. But that doesnt mean they themselves are not to blame for them losing business to recasters. That also does not mean that GW charging 60% more for living in another country is morally acceptable. legally sure, but morally? Hell no.
I also find it hard to believe that you are a 'relentlessness critic' of GW prices if you are trying to justify this. it's kind of laughable honestly. By your logic, literally anything that is legal is morally acceptable. That seems to be the arbitrary line that you created to determine what is morally acceptable and what is not.
And no, no one said recasters arent breaking the law. If you are literally just trying to argue a technicality here in regards to what's legal then you are right, what they are doing is illegal. No one is arguing that. I am arguing that GW has only themselves to blame for it, that it can actually help the hobby and that GW does things that are just as bad albeit legal.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/19 23:05:47
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Is there a normal amount of time Forgeworld waits after previewing something to releasing it? Trying to guage how long im waiting for the necron thing
Don't know. I would really like to know when the new Necron construct is coming out as well. The best thing shown at warhamemr fest by far for me . Still wish we get some named characters from Forge World as well like Xun'Bakyr - a badass female necron character that has never gotten a model.
I agree, or even some of the Maynarkh characters even. That would be really nice
<Dynasty> ~10500pts
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze ~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps ~3250pts
Admech (TBN) ~3500pts +30k Bots and Ulator
Last year I checked FW every friday wanting to see the new product.
Nowadays I only see that they are removing products.
So far i havent start a Death Korps army noran Alpha legion army because of their new "strategy" of removing things to have more space (for the new ugly khorne dragon i guess?) and the lack of communication.
If they dont sell well is purely because their prices, but GW will never change that. I would have started an horus heresy army earlier (i have a very big army of custodes) if they offered reasonably discounts on buying packs of marines+weapons+legion specific bits, but no, they cost a damn kidney and a eye.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 23:05:21
But yes it's the customers who are unscrupulous here, right?
Um, yes.. that's how morality and the law work when someone knowingly and voluntarily seeks out counterfeit luxury goods. And I say that as a relentless critic of GW's pricing. Last I checked, no Western nation guarantees free or even affordable access to every want their citizens desire. Gw is free to charge whatever they want and customers are free to ignore them if what they're asking is unreasonable. Do I personally care if others but recasts? No, not at all in large part because I agree that GWs prices are ridiculous...but call a spade a spade and don't pretend that they're not breaking the law not that they're occupying some imaginary Robin Hoodesque morale high ground either.
Ummm no, that's now how morality works. Just because you are legally within your rights does not mean you are morally in the right to purposely charge 60% more to another country for no reason. Is there a 60% import tax that I am unaware of?
You didnt actually read anything I said did you? I'm betting you didnt because I literally said "Gw is within their rights to charge however much they want". No one is arguing against that. But that doesnt mean they themselves are not to blame for them losing business to recasters. That also does not mean that GW charging 60% more for living in another country is morally acceptable. legally sure, but morally? Hell no.
I also find it hard to believe that you are a 'relentlessness critic' of GW prices if you are trying to justify this. it's kind of laughable honestly. By your logic, literally anything that is legal is morally acceptable. That seems to be the arbitrary line that you created to determine what is morally acceptable and what is not.
Lol, your entire premise boils down to two wrongs make a right. I hate to break it too you but that's not how the saying goes.
But yes it's the customers who are unscrupulous here, right?
Um, yes.. that's how morality and the law work when someone knowingly and voluntarily seeks out counterfeit luxury goods. And I say that as a relentless critic of GW's pricing. Last I checked, no Western nation guarantees free or even affordable access to every want their citizens desire. Gw is free to charge whatever they want and customers are free to ignore them if what they're asking is unreasonable. Do I personally care if others but recasts? No, not at all in large part because I agree that GWs prices are ridiculous...but call a spade a spade and don't pretend that they're not breaking the law not that they're occupying some imaginary Robin Hoodesque morale high ground either.
Ummm no, that's now how morality works. Just because you are legally within your rights does not mean you are morally in the right to purposely charge 60% more to another country for no reason. Is there a 60% import tax that I am unaware of?
You didnt actually read anything I said did you? I'm betting you didnt because I literally said "Gw is within their rights to charge however much they want". No one is arguing against that. But that doesnt mean they themselves are not to blame for them losing business to recasters. That also does not mean that GW charging 60% more for living in another country is morally acceptable. legally sure, but morally? Hell no.
I also find it hard to believe that you are a 'relentlessness critic' of GW prices if you are trying to justify this. it's kind of laughable honestly. By your logic, literally anything that is legal is morally acceptable. That seems to be the arbitrary line that you created to determine what is morally acceptable and what is not.
Lol, your entire premise boils down to two wrongs make a right. I hate to break it too you but that's not how the saying goes.
No, that wasnt my point at all. That's a strawman fallacy too btw. Again, if you had read what I said then you might understand that.
Again it seems like you are just trying to argue a technicality here in regards to whats legal... without realizing that was never the argument to begin with.
Let's end this here before we derail the thread. If you would like to continue this discussion send me a PM.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 23:13:59
No, that wasnt my point at all. That's a strawman fallacy too btw. Again, if you had read what I said then you might understand that.
It's not a straw man argument but rather exactly what you're claiming and I have no interest in discussing it with you via PM if you can't realize that basic fact. The post I responded to specifically was arguing against calling customers who voluntarily purchase counterfeit goods "unscrupulous" and your responses since clarified that Gw pricing justify it. Again, I don't care if people do it nor do I care about potential loses to GWs bottom line as long as folks are honest about what they're doing. Either way, I agree it's not worth further derailing the thread but I'm sure you'll want to get in the last word so feel free.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 23:27:23
Honestly I'm actually liking the removal of certain items from the store, it shows that Forgeworld are tracking what sells and what doesn't. The items being binned are clearly the ones that have stagnated sales for one reason or another and need to cut from the catalogue to make way for newer or better selling items.
No, that wasnt my point at all. That's a strawman fallacy too btw. Again, if you had read what I said then you might understand that.
It's not a straw man argument but rather exactly what you're claiming and I have no interest in discussing it with you via PM if you can't realize that basic fact. The post I responded to specifically was arguing against calling customers who voluntarily purchase counterfeit goods "unscrupulous" and your responses since clarified that Gw pricing justify it. Again, I don't care if people do it now do I care about potential loses to GWs bottom line as long as folks are honest about what they're doing. Either way, I agree it's not worth further detailing the thread but I'm sure you'll want to get in the last word so feel free.
That's exactly what you just did - ignore my points and instead create a new simplified and easily counter-able argument out of what you selectively see apparently when arguing with people. If you can;t use google then then that's your own fault lol. You obviously have some trouble following basic logic so I figured I would let this go to Pm to save you the embarrassment.
I explained why many of the customers who buy resculpts are not in the process of "having or showing no moral principles". GW demands more money from certain people simply to take advantage of of their legal right to do so. No one is arguing that they are not within their rights to charge not only absurd prices but also charge more from certain people just because they can. Your initial argument was literally just clarifying that when no clarification was needed. There was no argument to be had that GW was not within their rights to whatever they want with pricing, so why you even brought that up is kind of funny to me. You see, you are confusing morality with a technicality. Yes, GW can LEGALLY do whatever they want, but it's far more complicated than that when we talk about the morally of this situation. I advise you to reread some of your posts because you arent really following your own logic here. Either that or you see morality as black and white, apparently completely dictaded by breaking the law or not.
You don't even seem to know what you are arguing against here either.
I was pointing out that recasters can actually help the hobby by creating a customer where there might not otherwise be one, GW can make recasters less prevalent by simply lowering prices or at the very least charging near the same amount regardless of where you live. I was also pointing out that if people buying recastors makes them unscrupulous then GW is far more unscrupulous than they are, especially in the cases of certain countries that objectively get screwed over by GW for no discernible reason. Do I believe that making recasts is the right thing to do? Perhaps not, but I will not judge someone from buying recasts, especially if they are literally unable to play the game because of the prices GW has put in place. A customer has the right to speak out if they are not being treated properly, and if hurting GW's sales is a way of speaking out as a customer buying recasts then that is well within you rights.
So GW screws people over, then people respond because they don't want to get screwed over. GW created the issue and perpetuates the issue. It's only in some cases where the customers respond by buying recasts. So this is a GW created issue, they know it's an issue, they perpetuate the issue, and somehow they are not unscrupulous? Somehow Cusotmers are on the same level as them for NOT wanting to get screwed over?
Do I believe that 2 wrongs make a right? That's a very narrow-minded way of looking at my argument. No I don't, but don't blame people or say they are amoral for not wanting to get screwed over by something they obviously want to like. If someone is screwing you over and you fight back, does mean you are were doing something wrong? By that logic you should just accept everything anyone could do to you so you don't and don't respond with anything because then you take the risk having '2 wrongs make a right'. GW screwing over the customers and the customers buying recasts are not even at same level of what could be considered morally wrong (that's a false equivalency).
If I want to play warhammer but simply can not afford it because of the ludicrous prices (especially if I live in 1 of a certain few countries) and so I buy some recasts of things that I need to make an army and then spend the rest on actual GW models..... that is not morally wrong. Not only am I giving GW money that they otherwise would not get, but everyone wins. And it just may send a message that GW needs to fix their prices. As a third party individual I also would not blame that person for seeking out a cheaper alternative. Do you really think all people buy recasts out of spite? Is it not possible that someone wants to get into warhammer but they canta nd so they seek alternatives? And again, this is a GW created and perpetuated issue. It's the customers who are forced into working around it. Call me crazy but I dont see many Warmachine recasts or Infinity recasts, maybe that's because they treat their customer with some degree of respect?
And again if we are going to call the customers who buy recasts amoral then that makes GW much worse. Again, GW knows their prices are too high and they know they screw over certain countries far more than others. But because they are legally within their rights, that keeps them from being unscrupulous, right?
And since you are refusing to take this to PMs I am going to have to ignore you. I dont want to derail the thread any more unlike you.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/20 00:06:52
No, that wasnt my point at all. That's a strawman fallacy too btw. Again, if you had read what I said then you might understand that.
It's not a straw man argument but rather exactly what you're claiming and I have no interest in discussing it with you via PM if you can't realize that basic fact. The post I responded to specifically was arguing against calling customers who voluntarily purchase counterfeit goods "unscrupulous" and your responses since clarified that Gw pricing justify it. Again, I don't care if people do it now do I care about potential loses to GWs bottom line as long as folks are honest about what they're doing. Either way, I agree it's not worth further detailing the thread but I'm sure you'll want to get in the last word so feel free.
That's exactly what you just did - ignore my points and instead create a new simplified and easily counter-able argument out of what you selectively see apparently when arguing with people. If you can;t use google then then that's your own fault lol. You obviously have some trouble following basic logic so I figured I would let this go to Pm to save you the embarrassment.
I explained why many of the customers who buy resculpts are not in the process of "having or showing no moral principles". GW demands more money from certain people simply to take advantage of of their legal right to do so. No one is arguing that they are not within their rights to charge not only absurd prices but also charge more from certain people just because they can. Your initial argument was literally just clarifying that when no clarification was needed. There was no argument to be had that GW was not within their rights to whatever they want with pricing, so why you even brought that up is kind of funny to me. You see, you are confusing morality with a technicality. Yes, GW can LEGALLY do whatever they want, but it's far more complicated than that when we talk about the morally of this situation. I advise you to reread some of your posts because you arent really following your own logic here. Either that or you see morality as black and white, apparently completely dictaded by breaking the law or not.
You don't even seem to know what you are arguing against here either.
I was pointing out that recasters can actually help the hobby by creating a customer where there might not otherwise be one, GW can make recasters less prevalent by simply lowering prices or at the very least charging near the same amount regardless of where you live. I was also pointing out that if people buying recastors makes them unscrupulous then GW is far more unscrupulous than they are, especially in the cases of certain countries that objectively get screwed over by GW for no discernible reason. Do I believe that making recasts is the right thing to do? Perhaps not, but I will not judge someone from buying recasts, especially if they are literally unable to play the game because of the prices GW has put in place. A customer has the right to speak out if they are not being treated properly, and if hurting GW's sales is a way of speaking out as a customer buying recasts then that is well within you rights.
So GW screws people over, then people respond because they don't want to get screwed over. GW created the issue and perpetuates the issue. It's only in some cases where the customers respond by buying recasts. So this is a GW created issue, they know it's an issue, they perpetuate the issue, and somehow they are not unscrupulous? Somehow Cusotmers are on the same level as them for NOT wanting to get screwed over?
Do I believe that 2 wrongs make a right? That's a very narrow-minded way of looking at my argument. No I don't, but don't blame people or say they are amoral for not wanting to get screwed over by something they obviously want to like. If someone is screwing you over and you fight back, does mean you are were doing something wrong? By that logic you should just accept everything anyone could do to you so you don't and don't respond with anything because then you take the risk having '2 wrongs make a right'. GW screwing over the customers and the customers buying recasts are not even at same level of what could be considered morally wrong (that's a false equivalency).
If I want to play warhammer but simply can not afford it because of the ludicrous prices (especially if I live in 1 of a certain few countries) and so I buy some recasts of things that I need to make an army and then spend the rest on actual GW models..... that is not morally wrong. Not only am I giving GW money that they otherwise would not get, but everyone wins. And it just may send a message that GW needs to fix their prices. As a third party individual I also would not blame that person for seeking out a cheaper alternative. Do you really think all people buy recasts out of spite? Is it not possible that someone wants to get into warhammer but they canta nd so they seek alternatives? And again, this is a GW created and perpetuated issue. It's the customers who are forced into working around it. Call me crazy but I dont see many Warmachine recasts or Infinity recasts, maybe that's because they treat their customer with some degree of respect?
And again if we are going to call the customers who buy recasts amoral then that makes GW much worse. Again, GW knows their prices are too high and they know they screw over certain countries far more than others. But because they are legally within their rights, that keeps them from being unscrupulous, right?
And since you are refusing to take this to PMs I am going to have to ignore you. I dont want to derail the thread any more unlike you.
It's not a straw man when your points have zero merit. Everybody here understands what it is you're saying, and everyone here understands that you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/20 07:18:41
No, that wasnt my point at all. That's a strawman fallacy too btw. Again, if you had read what I said then you might understand that.
It's not a straw man argument but rather exactly what you're claiming and I have no interest in discussing it with you via PM if you can't realize that basic fact. The post I responded to specifically was arguing against calling customers who voluntarily purchase counterfeit goods "unscrupulous" and your responses since clarified that Gw pricing justify it. Again, I don't care if people do it now do I care about potential loses to GWs bottom line as long as folks are honest about what they're doing. Either way, I agree it's not worth further detailing the thread but I'm sure you'll want to get in the last word so feel free.
That's exactly what you just did - ignore my points and instead create a new simplified and easily counter-able argument out of what you selectively see apparently when arguing with people. If you can;t use google then then that's your own fault lol. You obviously have some trouble following basic logic so I figured I would let this go to Pm to save you the embarrassment.
I explained why many of the customers who buy resculpts are not in the process of "having or showing no moral principles". GW demands more money from certain people simply to take advantage of of their legal right to do so. No one is arguing that they are not within their rights to charge not only absurd prices but also charge more from certain people just because they can. Your initial argument was literally just clarifying that when no clarification was needed. There was no argument to be had that GW was not within their rights to whatever they want with pricing, so why you even brought that up is kind of funny to me. You see, you are confusing morality with a technicality. Yes, GW can LEGALLY do whatever they want, but it's far more complicated than that when we talk about the morally of this situation. I advise you to reread some of your posts because you arent really following your own logic here. Either that or you see morality as black and white, apparently completely dictaded by breaking the law or not.
You don't even seem to know what you are arguing against here either.
I was pointing out that recasters can actually help the hobby by creating a customer where there might not otherwise be one, GW can make recasters less prevalent by simply lowering prices or at the very least charging near the same amount regardless of where you live. I was also pointing out that if people buying recastors makes them unscrupulous then GW is far more unscrupulous than they are, especially in the cases of certain countries that objectively get screwed over by GW for no discernible reason. Do I believe that making recasts is the right thing to do? Perhaps not, but I will not judge someone from buying recasts, especially if they are literally unable to play the game because of the prices GW has put in place. A customer has the right to speak out if they are not being treated properly, and if hurting GW's sales is a way of speaking out as a customer buying recasts then that is well within you rights.
So GW screws people over, then people respond because they don't want to get screwed over. GW created the issue and perpetuates the issue. It's only in some cases where the customers respond by buying recasts. So this is a GW created issue, they know it's an issue, they perpetuate the issue, and somehow they are not unscrupulous? Somehow Cusotmers are on the same level as them for NOT wanting to get screwed over?
Do I believe that 2 wrongs make a right? That's a very narrow-minded way of looking at my argument. No I don't, but don't blame people or say they are amoral for not wanting to get screwed over by something they obviously want to like. If someone is screwing you over and you fight back, does mean you are were doing something wrong? By that logic you should just accept everything anyone could do to you so you don't and don't respond with anything because then you take the risk having '2 wrongs make a right'. GW screwing over the customers and the customers buying recasts are not even at same level of what could be considered morally wrong (that's a false equivalency).
If I want to play warhammer but simply can not afford it because of the ludicrous prices (especially if I live in 1 of a certain few countries) and so I buy some recasts of things that I need to make an army and then spend the rest on actual GW models..... that is not morally wrong. Not only am I giving GW money that they otherwise would not get, but everyone wins. And it just may send a message that GW needs to fix their prices. As a third party individual I also would not blame that person for seeking out a cheaper alternative. Do you really think all people buy recasts out of spite? Is it not possible that someone wants to get into warhammer but they canta nd so they seek alternatives? And again, this is a GW created and perpetuated issue. It's the customers who are forced into working around it. Call me crazy but I dont see many Warmachine recasts or Infinity recasts, maybe that's because they treat their customer with some degree of respect?
And again if we are going to call the customers who buy recasts amoral then that makes GW much worse. Again, GW knows their prices are too high and they know they screw over certain countries far more than others. But because they are legally within their rights, that keeps them from being unscrupulous, right?
And since you are refusing to take this to PMs I am going to have to ignore you. I dont want to derail the thread any more unlike you.
It's not a straw man when your points have zero merit. Everybody here understands what it is you're saying, and everyone here understands that you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
Lol and no argument provided whatsoever. If you would like to be proven wrong as well then send me a PM. I would LOVE to hear what you have to say.
EDIT
Actually I sent you a PM
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/05/20 07:18:57
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: It's fascinating that you seem to have this great insiders knowledge of their costs, labour, taxes and utilities to have such an explicit knowledge of their costs and pricing strategy. Please enlighten us to all this detail.
He's probably been reading the numerous leaks on the subject of just how badly GW puts the thumbscrews to everyone, and 40k players in particular that have spewed forth for a while now.
As far as new FW rumors go, We got a healthy look at an anemic lineup at the weekender that at least has Necron players excited.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
I'm still trying to figure out if the Mk4 dreads are going away like the email said, but the website doesn't have LCTB symbols beside them.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
Crazyterran wrote: I'm still trying to figure out if the Mk4 dreads are going away like the email said, but the website doesn't have LCTB symbols beside them.
Back in WHFest they admitted their failings and adding some products to LCTB by mistake. So this might be just another case of their incompetence.
tneva82 wrote: Proves how? Fw can never equal price with recasters. Do you expect them to sell at loss?
That's not actually what he said, but, y'know, don't let facts get in the way of all that straw...
And anyway, if FW simply explained why all this stuff was vanishing we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
As I posted a few pages back, and a few other places have posted, at Warhammer fest in the FW seminar Tony confirmed that stuff was being removed that didn't sell. He also said Mark II in particular had very low sales its entire life.
Imagine that, the chunky, annoying to paint old armour that had less detail than mkiii and couldn’t match the sleek high tech look of miv didn’t sell well.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
ImAGeek wrote: I love MkII personally, but it’s never been overly popular. Guess that rules out ever getting plastic MkII.
I like the look of MkII as well. Let’s not forget that the two legions most closely associated with MkII armour, the Dark Angels and the White Scars, haven’t had their time in the spotlight yet. How’s anyone going to make a fluffy White Scar armour when the next book is released if there’s no MkII armour available?
That was a rhetorical question btw. We all know how.
Looky Likey wrote: As I posted a few pages back, and a few other places have posted, at Warhammer fest in the FW seminar Tony confirmed that stuff was being removed that didn't sell. He also said Mark II in particular had very low sales its entire life.
Some guy in a seminar. Wonderful.
What I mean was an actual statement, on their Facebook, explaining why. A second hand story from an event isn't good enough.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/20 08:11:20
Mental Surge wrote: Uhhh I think you missed the point. The point is that FW has no one but themselves to blame for people buying from recasters. No one is saying they are not within their rights to charge whatever they want, but they shouldnt be surprised if they are losing business. If they werent so greedy they wouldnt have this issue to begin with. Or at the very least the issue would not be anywhere near as prevalent. If it's their right to charge absurd prices then it's my right to buy from recasters.
Honestly though to call people unscrupulous because they want to buy the product for a reasonable price is kind of ignorant and close-minded. You are essentially telling people who want to get into 40k/30k but cant because they simply dont have the money to invest in it, amoral when in reality it's GW that created this issue to begin with. GW has NO ONE but themselves to blame for recasters. If you are going to charge some ludicrous prices for these models you better expect for people to buy from recasters. Especially when you look at how absurd the prices are in certain countries. look at Australia and New Zealand ffs. A box of FIVE Immortals costs 64$ in New Zealand. In the UK it costs 20 BP, which is about 39 New Zealand Dollars. That's about a 60% increase in cost.... for some reason. That is a straight up insult and GW has only themselves to blame for people wanting a cheaper alternative. But yes it's the customers who are unscrupulous here, right?
I would also add that recasters can help the hobby. For instance someone might invest into the hobby if they can get some products much cheaper. Even if they buy a SINGLE model from GW, that's one more model that GW sells that they might otherwise not sell if the person cant justify the financial investment to simply get into warhammer. Also someone who buys a model from a recaster probably would not have bought the model from GW/FW to begin with since they obviously can't justify the cost.
I got your point entirely and my point stands. Forgeworld are a maker of luxury non essential goods putting product to market in good faith. Whether people can afford the prices or not is moot. It's the same for any luxury good whether it's clothing, handbags, cars, or other miniature manufacturers etc etc. I'd personally love to be able to go out and buy an Ariel Atom at the price I want but I know that it's not going to happen. I will have to work at a certain level to earn the money to be able to afford it. Now you or others can rail at the pricing all you want and I acknowledge their pricing is inconsistent, but the fact is you are not entitled to their product at prices of your own choosing. If you want GW to change their behaviour, stop buying their product.
And, no, recasters damage the wider hobby in all ways, doesn't matter if it's recasts for Forgeworld, Kingdom Death, Dropzone Commander, etc. It takes money from the company, shows off a lower quality, potentially unsafe product and it devalues people's collections should they wish to resell. Finally, it goes without saying that buying from recasters is an unscrupulously activity regardless of the questionable motives for doing so.
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ImAGeek wrote: I love MkII personally, but it’s never been overly popular. Guess that rules out ever getting plastic MkII.
So, Penddraig from heresy30k has done some probing at warhammer fest:
There has been so much discussion around this based on mis-information, assumption and guesswork. At the weekender in some Seminars the FW team were questioned about this and I also had a chat with individual members of the team – the feedback was consistent:
1. The items (paints and upgrades) were removed due to low sales by the main GW stock team – not a FW decision.
2. Just because an item is now gone, does not mean it won`t be later re-released – possibly as a made-to-order piece.
3. The paints were removed by non-hobbyists. The FW team are arguing for a return of certain colours that cannot be duplicated by the main range and are needed for painting certain armies – the main colours argued for include specific legion colours like Sons of Horus and the clears. There is a *small* chance that these colours could be returned in the future – possibly as part of the Citadel paint range allowing them to be sold in stores.
4. Stock space is very limited due to the range of kits now available and they can`t keep everything in stock all the time if it is not selling.
New models we saw this weekend for the Heresy was limited and the only two new units were the AoD land speeder with Mk.IV pilots and the new militia tank.
The new land-speeder includes all the options in the army list such as volkite, havoc launcher, heavy bolter etc. These have also been designed with magnet points for easy swopping around.
The new Militia tank based on the Aurox-Chassis is awesome. It comes stock with twin-linked autocannon turret and heavy flamer sponsons. Depending on whether it is for a Militia or Solar Auxilia army, you can then swop out weapons for more autocannon, volkite, lascannon etc. The tank and Aurox represent that in Rogue Trader, the Imperial Army could take land raiders, predators and rhinos. This reflects the predator. Its cheap in points (60pts) and has armour similar to the Predator (12/11/10) and comes in squadrons. The rules will eventually appear in 40k as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/20 08:32:33
<Dynasty> 
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze 
~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps 
~3250pts
Admech (TBN) 
