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ExProfundis/Bruticus is now writing something for BL. It's interesting to see that GW have kind of integrated that inq/aos28 crowd into their own sphere. Liked his projects so I'm sure whatever he does will be interesting. His Black Sloth Hell was really the first attempt by anybody to make Sigmar grim.

http://www.exprofundis.com/black-sloth-hell/

William KIng will not be at Bl Live, due to illness.

Suspect that's why the schedule got pulled perhaps ?

Sorry to hear that. :(

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/29/black-library-live-new-booksgw-homepage-post-4/

Update on the event - also I'm excited to see Libre Chaotica! Never knew about this first time it came around and some copies on ebay go or quite a hefty price - so nice to see it returning! Hopefully its not an event exclusive.

 Overread wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/29/black-library-live-new-booksgw-homepage-post-4/

Update on the event - also I'm excited to see Libre Chaotica! Never knew about this first time it came around and some copies on ebay go or quite a hefty price - so nice to see it returning! Hopefully its not an event exclusive.

One of the best books they've ever done IMO.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Shame nobody had any scowls for whichever numpty decided to kill off Ferrus.

That was done in like the 90’s (80’s maybe?).

Actually no, it wasn't. In the original material, both Ferrus and Vulkan disappeared at Istvaan. It was heavily implied they had died, but not outright stated anywhere I every saw. The decision to explicitly kill Ferrus(and then, just to rub it in, make Vulkan an unkillable Perpetual) was taken for the HH novel series specifically.

This is just my two cents, but while killing off characters might be good for great story telling, it is terrible for marketable games and interactive hobbies. Humans are creatures that want things they like, when you attach yourself to a character and you say, build and Iron Hands army, chances are you're going to want the biggest, most important character to that faction as a model you can play with at some point. This is why I believe all the dead primarchs need to be retconned so that they can then get 40K model releases.

 Overread wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/29/black-library-live-new-booksgw-homepage-post-4/

Update on the event - also I'm excited to see Libre Chaotica! Never knew about this first time it came around and some copies on ebay go or quite a hefty price - so nice to see it returning! Hopefully its not an event exclusive.

It’s been seen on retailer price lists for this weekend I think, so not exclusive.

 Togusa wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Shame nobody had any scowls for whichever numpty decided to kill off Ferrus.

That was done in like the 90’s (80’s maybe?).

Actually no, it wasn't. In the original material, both Ferrus and Vulkan disappeared at Istvaan. It was heavily implied they had died, but not outright stated anywhere I every saw. The decision to explicitly kill Ferrus(and then, just to rub it in, make Vulkan an unkillable Perpetual) was taken for the HH novel series specifically.

This is just my two cents, but while killing off characters might be good for great story telling, it is terrible for marketable games and interactive hobbies. Humans are creatures that want things they like, when you attach yourself to a character and you say, build and Iron Hands army, chances are you're going to want the biggest, most important character to that faction as a model you can play with at some point. This is why I believe all the dead primarchs need to be retconned so that they can then get 40K model releases.

I agree with your first point, but not the second. After all it's not as if the Primarchs used to have rules in a previous edition. From the point of view of 40k they've always been historical characters. Bring back the missing ones, OK, but don't retcon bring the actual dead ones back to life. At that point, why not have Horus and the Emperor back, and throw in some other Eldar gods while we're at it?

 Togusa wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Shame nobody had any scowls for whichever numpty decided to kill off Ferrus.

That was done in like the 90’s (80’s maybe?).

Actually no, it wasn't. In the original material, both Ferrus and Vulkan disappeared at Istvaan. It was heavily implied they had died, but not outright stated anywhere I every saw. The decision to explicitly kill Ferrus(and then, just to rub it in, make Vulkan an unkillable Perpetual) was taken for the HH novel series specifically.

This is just my two cents, but while killing off characters might be good for great story telling, it is terrible for marketable games and interactive hobbies. Humans are creatures that want things they like, when you attach yourself to a character and you say, build and Iron Hands army, chances are you're going to want the biggest, most important character to that faction as a model you can play with at some point. This is why I believe all the dead primarchs need to be retconned so that they can then get 40K model releases.

Speaking as someone who's been a huge Iron Hands fan since the original Index Astartes run in WD, and who has generally despised everything GW & BL have done with the chapter since they took the decision to kill off Ferrus, I can't imagine anything worse than bringing him back in 40K.

Even putting aside my general dislike for the idea of non-daemonic Primarchs and the way they affect the tone of the setting IMO negatively, and considering only Ferrus; I wouldn't trust the current writers within a hundred yards of any attempt to bring him into 40K. I mean, these are the same people who took a chapter that was defined by three things - Ferrus wasn't dead just waiting for them to prove themselves worthy of his return, Ferrus did the right thing at Istvaan and failed because the other loyalists were cowards, and hatred of weakness - and turned them into a bunch of snivelling Robo-Spocks who disdain their own Primarch. Not to mention the BL authors' apparent need to just keep on kicking away at them; Ferrus' head on a stick, Ferrus getting cloned so he can be dunked on over and over again, that ludicrous robo-Ferrus effigy pish, the whole "what's left of Ferrus' soul is now a Slanneshi daemon who haunts the chapter" garbage, and I honestly can't even bear to read spoilers about the new novel with some conspiracy thing in it. And of course the cherry on top, the "bionics are bad and Ferrus thought that too" manure.

The utter circus they would make out of bringing Ferrus back would probably be worse than all the 41k/Cawly Sue/Rowboat's Magical Primaris Mystery Tour fluff combined. Let them screw up another chapter for a while instead pls.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Shame nobody had any scowls for whichever numpty decided to kill off Ferrus.

That was done in like the 90’s (80’s maybe?).

Actually no, it wasn't. In the original material, both Ferrus and Vulkan disappeared at Istvaan. It was heavily implied they had died, but not outright stated anywhere I every saw. The decision to explicitly kill Ferrus(and then, just to rub it in, make Vulkan an unkillable Perpetual) was taken for the HH novel series specifically.

This is just my two cents, but while killing off characters might be good for great story telling, it is terrible for marketable games and interactive hobbies. Humans are creatures that want things they like, when you attach yourself to a character and you say, build and Iron Hands army, chances are you're going to want the biggest, most important character to that faction as a model you can play with at some point. This is why I believe all the dead primarchs need to be retconned so that they can then get 40K model releases.

I agree with your first point, but not the second. After all it's not as if the Primarchs used to have rules in a previous edition. From the point of view of 40k they've always been historical characters. Bring back the missing ones, OK, but don't retcon bring the actual dead ones back to life. At that point, why not have Horus and the Emperor back, and throw in some other Eldar gods while we're at it?

Why don't we? That's the kind of stuff I want to see on the table top.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Shame nobody had any scowls for whichever numpty decided to kill off Ferrus.

That was done in like the 90’s (80’s maybe?).

Actually no, it wasn't. In the original material, both Ferrus and Vulkan disappeared at Istvaan. It was heavily implied they had died, but not outright stated anywhere I every saw. The decision to explicitly kill Ferrus(and then, just to rub it in, make Vulkan an unkillable Perpetual) was taken for the HH novel series specifically.

This is just my two cents, but while killing off characters might be good for great story telling, it is terrible for marketable games and interactive hobbies. Humans are creatures that want things they like, when you attach yourself to a character and you say, build and Iron Hands army, chances are you're going to want the biggest, most important character to that faction as a model you can play with at some point. This is why I believe all the dead primarchs need to be retconned so that they can then get 40K model releases.

Speaking as someone who's been a huge Iron Hands fan since the original Index Astartes run in WD, and who has generally despised everything GW & BL have done with the chapter since they took the decision to kill off Ferrus, I can't imagine anything worse than bringing him back in 40K.

Even putting aside my general dislike for the idea of non-daemonic Primarchs and the way they affect the tone of the setting IMO negatively, and considering only Ferrus; I wouldn't trust the current writers within a hundred yards of any attempt to bring him into 40K. I mean, these are the same people who took a chapter that was defined by three things - Ferrus wasn't dead just waiting for them to prove themselves worthy of his return, Ferrus did the right thing at Istvaan and failed because the other loyalists were cowards, and hatred of weakness - and turned them into a bunch of snivelling Robo-Spocks who disdain their own Primarch. Not to mention the BL authors' apparent need to just keep on kicking away at them; Ferrus' head on a stick, Ferrus getting cloned so he can be dunked on over and over again, that ludicrous robo-Ferrus effigy pish, the whole "what's left of Ferrus' soul is now a Slanneshi daemon who haunts the chapter" garbage, and I honestly can't even bear to read spoilers about the new novel with some conspiracy thing in it. And of course the cherry on top, the "bionics are bad and Ferrus thought that too" manure.

The utter circus they would make out of bringing Ferrus back would probably be worse than all the 41k/Cawly Sue/Rowboat's Magical Primaris Mystery Tour fluff combined. Let them screw up another chapter for a while instead pls.

This is a miniatures game. There is a whole world of well written scifi books out there to satiate desires for good story telling.

Why should some story, that half of us don't care a lick about, dictate what plastic models can be made and used on the table top?

Make a 40K Emperor Model, or Horus model and they'll sell a million dollars worth of each.

You seem to have gotten lost, /tg/ is thataway. People around here tend to at least vaguely acknowledge the idea that appreciating the setting is a perfectly valid way to enjoy 40K, even if they personally don't care either way.

 Togusa wrote:

Why should some story, that half of us don't care a lick about, dictate what plastic models can be made and used on the table top?

Every single miniature that's been made in the last 30 years for any Warhammer 40,000 game, has been done in service to that story. Honestly, if you're not interested in the narrative and setting, I seriously don't understand why you'd bother with 40k, as it's certainly not the best miniatures game available. I certainly don't collect miniatures for the gameplay.

Characters don't have any weight to a story if none of them ever die. Killing a character in 40k fluff doesn't mean you cannot use the model ever again, and it can be a battle before they died, or given the setting, there are ways a character can return.

I love the fluff but I rarely use named characters in my games because I don't believe Marneus Calgar would bother leading a small detachment to kill random Denis detachment.

The Heresy story is so good because so much happens. You know at the point that Ferrus dies that this is it: no take backs, they're all damned.

I think a lot of the meme 40k lore channels are responsible for this idiocy tbh.

More named characters in the game isn't good imho. It dulls the idea that you are meant to create your own thing, and that these named characters are just part of the setting not the entire focus of it.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Why should some story, that half of us don't care a lick about, dictate what plastic models can be made and used on the table top?

Every single miniature that's been made in the last 30 years for any Warhammer 40,000 game, has been done in service to that story. Honestly, if you're not interested in the narrative and setting, I seriously don't understand why you'd bother with 40k, as it's certainly not the best miniatures game available. I certainly don't collect miniatures for the gameplay.

I think it's a fine miniature game. We can agree to disagree, but you know I'm right. Telling a story isn't going to trump making money of characters people like and want.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Spoiler:

 Togusa wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Shame nobody had any scowls for whichever numpty decided to kill off Ferrus.

That was done in like the 90’s (80’s maybe?).

Actually no, it wasn't. In the original material, both Ferrus and Vulkan disappeared at Istvaan. It was heavily implied they had died, but not outright stated anywhere I every saw. The decision to explicitly kill Ferrus(and then, just to rub it in, make Vulkan an unkillable Perpetual) was taken for the HH novel series specifically.

This is just my two cents, but while killing off characters might be good for great story telling, it is terrible for marketable games and interactive hobbies. Humans are creatures that want things they like, when you attach yourself to a character and you say, build and Iron Hands army, chances are you're going to want the biggest, most important character to that faction as a model you can play with at some point. This is why I believe all the dead primarchs need to be retconned so that they can then get 40K model releases.

I agree with your first point, but not the second. After all it's not as if the Primarchs used to have rules in a previous edition. From the point of view of 40k they've always been historical characters. Bring back the missing ones, OK, but don't retcon bring the actual dead ones back to life. At that point, why not have Horus and the Emperor back, and throw in some other Eldar gods while we're at it?

Why don't we? That's the kind of stuff I want to see on the table top.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Shame nobody had any scowls for whichever numpty decided to kill off Ferrus.

That was done in like the 90’s (80’s maybe?).

Actually no, it wasn't. In the original material, both Ferrus and Vulkan disappeared at Istvaan. It was heavily implied they had died, but not outright stated anywhere I every saw. The decision to explicitly kill Ferrus(and then, just to rub it in, make Vulkan an unkillable Perpetual) was taken for the HH novel series specifically.

This is just my two cents, but while killing off characters might be good for great story telling, it is terrible for marketable games and interactive hobbies. Humans are creatures that want things they like, when you attach yourself to a character and you say, build and Iron Hands army, chances are you're going to want the biggest, most important character to that faction as a model you can play with at some point. This is why I believe all the dead primarchs need to be retconned so that they can then get 40K model releases.

Speaking as someone who's been a huge Iron Hands fan since the original Index Astartes run in WD, and who has generally despised everything GW & BL have done with the chapter since they took the decision to kill off Ferrus, I can't imagine anything worse than bringing him back in 40K.

Even putting aside my general dislike for the idea of non-daemonic Primarchs and the way they affect the tone of the setting IMO negatively, and considering only Ferrus; I wouldn't trust the current writers within a hundred yards of any attempt to bring him into 40K. I mean, these are the same people who took a chapter that was defined by three things - Ferrus wasn't dead just waiting for them to prove themselves worthy of his return, Ferrus did the right thing at Istvaan and failed because the other loyalists were cowards, and hatred of weakness - and turned them into a bunch of snivelling Robo-Spocks who disdain their own Primarch. Not to mention the BL authors' apparent need to just keep on kicking away at them; Ferrus' head on a stick, Ferrus getting cloned so he can be dunked on over and over again, that ludicrous robo-Ferrus effigy pish, the whole "what's left of Ferrus' soul is now a Slanneshi daemon who haunts the chapter" garbage, and I honestly can't even bear to read spoilers about the new novel with some conspiracy thing in it. And of course the cherry on top, the "bionics are bad and Ferrus thought that too" manure.

The utter circus they would make out of bringing Ferrus back would probably be worse than all the 41k/Cawly Sue/Rowboat's Magical Primaris Mystery Tour fluff combined. Let them screw up another chapter for a while instead pls.

This is a miniatures game. There is a whole world of well written scifi books out there to satiate desires for good story telling.

Why should some story, that half of us don't care a lick about, dictate what plastic models can be made and used on the table top?

Make a 40K Emperor Model, or Horus model and they'll sell a million dollars worth of each.

You seem to have gotten lost, /tg/ is thataway. People around here tend to at least vaguely acknowledge the idea that appreciating the setting is a perfectly valid way to enjoy 40K, even if they personally don't care either way.

Enjoy your stories. Just don't insist that I can't have the models I want because of the stories.

 Togusa wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Spoiler:

 Togusa wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Shame nobody had any scowls for whichever numpty decided to kill off Ferrus.

That was done in like the 90’s (80’s maybe?).

Actually no, it wasn't. In the original material, both Ferrus and Vulkan disappeared at Istvaan. It was heavily implied they had died, but not outright stated anywhere I every saw. The decision to explicitly kill Ferrus(and then, just to rub it in, make Vulkan an unkillable Perpetual) was taken for the HH novel series specifically.

This is just my two cents, but while killing off characters might be good for great story telling, it is terrible for marketable games and interactive hobbies. Humans are creatures that want things they like, when you attach yourself to a character and you say, build and Iron Hands army, chances are you're going to want the biggest, most important character to that faction as a model you can play with at some point. This is why I believe all the dead primarchs need to be retconned so that they can then get 40K model releases.

I agree with your first point, but not the second. After all it's not as if the Primarchs used to have rules in a previous edition. From the point of view of 40k they've always been historical characters. Bring back the missing ones, OK, but don't retcon bring the actual dead ones back to life. At that point, why not have Horus and the Emperor back, and throw in some other Eldar gods while we're at it?

Why don't we? That's the kind of stuff I want to see on the table top.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Shame nobody had any scowls for whichever numpty decided to kill off Ferrus.

That was done in like the 90’s (80’s maybe?).

Actually no, it wasn't. In the original material, both Ferrus and Vulkan disappeared at Istvaan. It was heavily implied they had died, but not outright stated anywhere I every saw. The decision to explicitly kill Ferrus(and then, just to rub it in, make Vulkan an unkillable Perpetual) was taken for the HH novel series specifically.

This is just my two cents, but while killing off characters might be good for great story telling, it is terrible for marketable games and interactive hobbies. Humans are creatures that want things they like, when you attach yourself to a character and you say, build and Iron Hands army, chances are you're going to want the biggest, most important character to that faction as a model you can play with at some point. This is why I believe all the dead primarchs need to be retconned so that they can then get 40K model releases.

Speaking as someone who's been a huge Iron Hands fan since the original Index Astartes run in WD, and who has generally despised everything GW & BL have done with the chapter since they took the decision to kill off Ferrus, I can't imagine anything worse than bringing him back in 40K.

Even putting aside my general dislike for the idea of non-daemonic Primarchs and the way they affect the tone of the setting IMO negatively, and considering only Ferrus; I wouldn't trust the current writers within a hundred yards of any attempt to bring him into 40K. I mean, these are the same people who took a chapter that was defined by three things - Ferrus wasn't dead just waiting for them to prove themselves worthy of his return, Ferrus did the right thing at Istvaan and failed because the other loyalists were cowards, and hatred of weakness - and turned them into a bunch of snivelling Robo-Spocks who disdain their own Primarch. Not to mention the BL authors' apparent need to just keep on kicking away at them; Ferrus' head on a stick, Ferrus getting cloned so he can be dunked on over and over again, that ludicrous robo-Ferrus effigy pish, the whole "what's left of Ferrus' soul is now a Slanneshi daemon who haunts the chapter" garbage, and I honestly can't even bear to read spoilers about the new novel with some conspiracy thing in it. And of course the cherry on top, the "bionics are bad and Ferrus thought that too" manure.

The utter circus they would make out of bringing Ferrus back would probably be worse than all the 41k/Cawly Sue/Rowboat's Magical Primaris Mystery Tour fluff combined. Let them screw up another chapter for a while instead pls.

This is a miniatures game. There is a whole world of well written scifi books out there to satiate desires for good story telling.

Why should some story, that half of us don't care a lick about, dictate what plastic models can be made and used on the table top?

Make a 40K Emperor Model, or Horus model and they'll sell a million dollars worth of each.

You seem to have gotten lost, /tg/ is thataway. People around here tend to at least vaguely acknowledge the idea that appreciating the setting is a perfectly valid way to enjoy 40K, even if they personally don't care either way.

Enjoy your stories. Just don't insist that I can't have the models I want because of the stories.

You can have any model you like, by making it.

But if GW make you all the models you like, I can't have my stories, because they have to be contorted into nonsense to accommodate all the models you want existing at the same time in the same narrative.

If you want Primarchs, play Heresy, that's the whole point of Heresy, to allow people who wanted to buy and play with Primarchs to have that chance. They don't need to be in 40K, and they don't belong there. Not that it matters, GW have already decided the setting is meaningless in the face of the opportunity to sell people their Big Hero Punchy Men action figures.

Okay folks, take it to a topic of its own please. Cheers!

Finally got my hands on Ashes and Oaths, when is the next one coming out already!

Tell you what though, they can shove the Siege books somewhere dark and stinky - making us wait a whole sodding year for the paperbacks? And not even legacy, just trade. Not even slightly on.

Sorry for the OT post, but can anyone remember the name of the short story about Skitarii / Secutarii defending a downed Titan (against Tyranids, I think)?

beast_gts wrote:
Sorry for the OT post, but can anyone remember the name of the short story about Skitarii / Secutarii defending a downed Titan (against Tyranids, I think)?

Maybe “The Zheng Cipher” or “Gates of the Devourer” ?

 nels1031 wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Sorry for the OT post, but can anyone remember the name of the short story about Skitarii / Secutarii defending a downed Titan (against Tyranids, I think)?

Maybe “The Zheng Cipher” or “Gates of the Devourer” ?

It's neither of those, thanks. I'm wondering if it was a fluff piece in a Codex (or I just imagined it).

Doesn't ring any bells for me either, nor does it sound like something I've read over the years I've collected and read just about anything BL has put out.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/01/black-library-live-the-reveals/

GOTREK IS ALIVE!

New model with a massive awesome beard; new novel; new Brian Blessed Audio Drama and script book as well as collectable first novel edition!


There's also other stuff in there too as well as the new Novella titles for several books, though they aren't coming till christmas. There's also news that all of the Warcry Battle teams are getting their own short story.

All in all some great stuff

Black Library Live reveals:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/01/black-library-live-the-reveals/

I really like the next SoT cover:

Looking forward to this



Also nice


No Maleneth model - that like not having Felix.

From a purely personal perspective, disappointing.

A 40K novel about Cawly Sue that "...has big ramifications for the lore of Warhammer 40,000..." is like seeing BL reach into my nightmares and bring one of them into reality in book form. Looks like only a single 40K book is actually a 40K book, rather than 41K.

AoS stuff is AoS stuff, not bothered. Although it would be nice if they stopped pillaging the carcass of WHF for beloved characters like Hollywood execs slapping a "known brand" on some cheapo spec-script for name recognition.

Hopefully the Necromunda books are solid, and tend more towards the "grimy western" feel of the classic novels.

I can't muster any enthusiasm for the Heresy stuff any more, not when they expect me to wait a sodding year for the paperbacks - the only way not to have them ruined by spoilers waiting that long is to stop giving a gak about the whole thing and maybe get around to reading them in a few years, so, congrats BL, your money-grubbing has taken someone who bought every new HH book religiously, often right from a GW store, and turned them into someone who'll buy your books secondhand off Amazon for pennies if they remember to. Also, third novel is Gav Thorpe's, so hard to muster any enthusiasm for even without the waiting.

Nice, he had pants.

So, I think I have two choices of new wallpapers for my phone.



Can't wait for "Court of the Blind King". I picked up "Myths & Revenants" just for the Idoneth bits, and man does this excite.

Will be interesting to see what Cawl is up to on Sotha, given that the Tyranids ruined the place.

More Warhammer Horror incoming, always good. Have high hopes for the audio drama, Perdition's Flame was most excellent.

More Inquisition novels are also good.