Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It also seems to be the faction where they have the least designer interest involved so things just kinda...'stay'.

I think every game has that faction that to the developers is defined by above the curve values in an important stat. Over time though, as new releases get more defined by tricks and special rule after the valid statlines have been explored, that faction starts to feel more defined by its lack of new special rules than the advantages it does have.

LunarSol wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It also seems to be the faction where they have the least designer interest involved so things just kinda...'stay'.

I think every game has that faction that to the developers is defined by above the curve values in an important stat. Over time though, as new releases get more defined by tricks and special rule after the valid statlines have been explored, that faction starts to feel more defined by its lack of new special rules than the advantages it does have.

It's important to remember that CB feels that PanO can't have nice things like Smoke Grenades because of their Ballistic Skill 'bonus'.

Never mind that it's basically nonexistent these days...

Red Harvest wrote:I think this business with the Non-Aligned armies is new. It has pushed back completion of other sectorials.

 Alpharius wrote:
I've seen the mini.

What is the pre-order mini anyway? It's not the CSU-Geisha, er Kuge Delegate.

It's going to be her in all likelihood. USARF Army Pack had 10 models as well--with the tenth being the dismounted Maverick.

I play nomads. It feels like it exists to me!

 LunarSol wrote:
I play nomads. It feels like it exists to me!

But therein lies the rub. If you play 'just' Nomads, you're in a better spot than VanillaO since you have all of your toys. Smoke+MSVs+Hackers=Big Deal when playing against PanO which has...erm...high BS and MSV but no Smoke?

I don't have Chain of Command at least?

Don't get me wrong; I get it. I also play Khador, which gets ARM 20! but pays for it with no magic weapons or stealth mitigation, or buffs that make everyone else's stuff more than ARM 20 anyway.... (that last bit isn't so relevant in MK3 to be fair)

 Kanluwen wrote:

LunarSol wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It also seems to be the faction where they have the least designer interest involved so things just kinda...'stay'.

I think every game has that faction that to the developers is defined by above the curve values in an important stat. Over time though, as new releases get more defined by tricks and special rule after the valid statlines have been explored, that faction starts to feel more defined by its lack of new special rules than the advantages it does have.

It's important to remember that CB feels that PanO can't have nice things like Smoke Grenades because of their Ballistic Skill 'bonus'.

 LunarSol wrote:
I don't have Chain of Command at least?

You can get CoC with a SpecOps incidentally.
You can't get Smoke Grenades from a SpecOps as PanO.

With that out of the way, I will be extremely surprised if Nomads don't get a CoC model with Tunguska. It's a super points heavy Sectorial so far(KB, Grenzers, Spektrs, Szalamandra, Interventors, Securitate) and LoL would be a Big Deal.

But CB is adamant that they won't give Smoke to PanO because of the BS and MSV availability they have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 avantgarde wrote:
I can't have smoke in Onyx; they get hack bonuses that are even less applicable then +1 BS. Your +1 BS doesn't go to waste just because you're playing against Ariadna. In fact, I'd rather they not hand out Smoke or Eclipse to every faction. Jaguars were a mistake.

Jaguars were a huge mistake but it's not like CJC didn't have Smoke before. McMurrough brought them first, then Lupe(Dire Foes) brought them second.

With that out of the way, Onyx is a Sectorial not a faction.
I get what you're saying, I truly do(I personally dislike making the distinction as I feel it's better to consider a Sectorial as its own standalone 'faction') but it's an important distinction to make that while your Sectorial doesn't have it...PanO just plain doesn't have it period.

If you want to gripe, gripe about how PanO gets shafted in the WIP department forcing players into auto pick choices like Military Order specialists or Tech-Bees. I'd agree with that.

And while we're at it, can we talk about the Tech-Bee? WTF was the rationale there? People asked for Engineer on Bolts or even just AVA2 Machinists.

The "WIP penalty" is supposed to be because we have access to high BS models. We have more of those models but we're not the only ones who can get there now.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Red Harvest wrote:
What is the pre-order mini anyway? It's not the CSU-Geisha, er Kuge Delegate.

It's going to be her in all likelihood. USARF Army Pack had 10 models as well--with the tenth being the dismounted Maverick.

Okay, that makes sense. I thought the USARF box was 11. I fail to see how that mini would tick off Pan-O players. The 'Anti-Cultural Appropriation sort' yes, but Pan-O, not.

 Red Harvest wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Red Harvest wrote:
What is the pre-order mini anyway? It's not the CSU-Geisha, er Kuge Delegate.

It's going to be her in all likelihood. USARF Army Pack had 10 models as well--with the tenth being the dismounted Maverick.

Okay, that makes sense. I thought the USARF box was 11. I fail to see how that mini would tick off Pan-O players. The 'Anti-Cultural Appropriation sort' yes, but Pan-O, not.

USARF Army Pack:
Minuteman with 2x LFTs(semi-generic profile--many of them have LFTs available)
Marauder with HFT(generic profile--personally would have preferred a rifle but c'est la vie)
Foxtrot with Rifle(intended to be a FO)
Grunt with Rifle
Grunt with Rifle
Grunt with Rifle

Devil Dog
K9 Antipode

Maverick
Maverick Dismounted(Limited Edition--some places still have this version however)

Realistically, Devil Dog+K9 Antipode and the Maverick both should be counted as 'one' since you can't take one without the other but eh.

 Alpharius wrote:
Just why does CB (allegedly) 'have it in for' PanO players?

As you can might imagine they do not, PanO is a faction as every other faction and gets developed and receives goodies and slots like every other faction.


Kanluwen I think you do know quite well Aristeia is designed by a different team from Infinity and it does not "push back" Infinity products or release slots, is nothing else it was pushed back because of Infinity.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spoiler:

 Red Harvest wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Red Harvest wrote:
What is the pre-order mini anyway? It's not the CSU-Geisha, er Kuge Delegate.

It's going to be her in all likelihood. USARF Army Pack had 10 models as well--with the tenth being the dismounted Maverick.

Okay, that makes sense. I thought the USARF box was 11. I fail to see how that mini would tick off Pan-O players. The 'Anti-Cultural Appropriation sort' yes, but Pan-O, not.

USARF Army Pack:
Minuteman with 2x LFTs(semi-generic profile--many of them have LFTs available)
Marauder with HFT(generic profile--personally would have preferred a rifle but c'est la vie)
Foxtrot with Rifle(intended to be a FO)
Grunt with Rifle
Grunt with Rifle
Grunt with Rifle

Devil Dog
K9 Antipode

Maverick
Maverick Dismounted(Limited Edition--some places still have this version however)

Realistically, Devil Dog+K9 Antipode and the Maverick both should be counted as 'one' since you can't take one without the other but eh.

With that in mind, wouldn’t be surprised if the exclusive mini is that lady (Celty) on the bike dismounted... that’s the shadow we see in the latest teaser.

Ehhh...none of the promo stuff that leaked mentioned a dismounted version.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Kanluwen I think you do know quite well Aristeia is designed by a different team from Infinity and it does not "push back" Infinity products or release slots, is nothing else it was pushed back because of Infinity.

Di CB hire new staff for or outsource for all of the model design, rules development, art, etc, or did they pull people from their current pool of staff to make the team for Aresteia?

If it's the former, then no, it didn't contribute to pushing back development of Infinity (well it might have still from a management point of view). If it's the latter, it absolutely did. You don't pull people from a project without it impacting that project.

The team that developed the Aristeia are not the same team that develops Infinity, but they do other jobs in CB so work for Infinity pushed Aristeia initial release back.

Infinity was never pushed back because of Aristeia.

Edit: From Game Trade Magazine

You know, I wouldn't be shocked if they did this to the Gabqar Khanate sectorial. Not much about it is known but it doesn't sound a whole lot like Haqqislam military aside from the Halqa. Reimagining it as 'ruffian biker gang sectorial' and divorcing it from Haqqislam proper is a way they could go with it.

Does sound like no more Japanese models for Yu Jing. Makes Red Veil invalid?

To hard to tell really what CB is doing. 50-50 no more Japanese in Vanilla YU. I'm thinking the Ninja will stay as a Merc option and possibly some others.

Be interesting to see, fluff wise, how much of a split there is at part of the delay of the RPG book was for Gutier (SP?) to get the infinity story line down and make sure the fluff in the RPG wasn't outdated by what the core game was going to do.

I think people more familiar with yu jing fluff will have the best idea of how the split will happen than people who aren't

You thinking YJ will keep some JSA units, Micky?

Definately gotta keep ninjas otherwise Red Veil is stupid, and the ISS list would need to be changed. There's probably some others too, but I'm not myself familiar with the fluff around individual units.

 -Loki- wrote:
You know, I wouldn't be shocked if they did this to the Gabqar Khanate sectorial. Not much about it is known but it doesn't sound a whole lot like Haqqislam military aside from the Halqa. Reimagining it as 'ruffian biker gang sectorial' and divorcing it from Haqqislam proper is a way they could go with it.

I really hope they do this to FRRM as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Micky wrote:
Definately gotta keep ninjas otherwise Red Veil is stupid, and the ISS list would need to be changed. There's probably some others too, but I'm not myself familiar with the fluff around individual units.

Then maybe you should be familiar with the fluff around them, since they would be literally the only thing that might necessitate a change in the ISS list.

As it stands, Ninjas are a thing that can work. I mentioned this before but the fluff around them suggests that the Yu Jing Empire keeps the Japanese ninja 'clans' around for deniable operations--and as a yardstick for training their own operatives.

Interesting. Just reread the copy and it says "Providing some new sculpts of already known units" so does that mean some repacks or just wonky translation issue?

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Interesting. Just reread the copy and it says "Providing some new sculpts of already known units" so does that mean some repacks or just wonky translation issue?

Oniwaban, Keisotsu, Kempeitai are all getting resculpted as part of this. We've known two of those units were getting redone for some time.

I'm bracing for the worst at this point (complete loss of JSA units from vanilla and ISS), but I'm hoping that CB have a bit more tact than that.

But my worst case scenario right now is basically assuming we lose everything except the Ninja. This would be pretty bad for me since, while I don't play JSA (and have no real compunction to start) there are a great many JSA units that work very well in vanilla... So losing out on Keisotsu, Aragoto, Kitsune, Raiden, and Oniwaban would be a bit of a kick in the because I'm unlikely to use this as a jumping off point to start a proper JSA force since I've never had specific interest in playing them. So if they go, may as well just shelve 'em all for the time being.

On a larger scale losing out on a great deal of our better skirmishers (Kitsune, Oniwaban), fast specialists and assault (Aragoto), excellent back-field defense (Raiden), cheap engineer (Tokusetsu), and our single best overall LI (Keisotsu) will basically put vanilla back a ways. Now, this can be mitigated with some vanilla list changes, such as giving us some AVA increases (namely for Guilang, Kanren, Daofei, Celestial Guard, Kuang Shi) as well as finally making the Zhanshi profile worthwhile (i.e. get it to 10 points or less, may I suggest getting rid of its armour and giving it an array of closer-ranged weapons like chain rifles, submachine guns, and spitfires so that they match their stated fluff better; a CG-style boarding-shotgun FO would also be great).

But as of now, I'm basically just expecting us to lose 15 profiles from vanilla (everything but the ninja) and see no other changes. I'd love to be wrong, CB haven't given me much to give them the benefit of the doubt, and for all I know we aren't even keeping the ninja.
.

<<Nevermind. Misread the report.>>

And lose the monty pythen comedy?

Excuse me, are you the Japanese Sectorial Army?

and a quote from a warcor on facebook about this.

Well part of the issues this time is that Corvus closely associated the Warcor to those news. We know what is coming, answers are coming next week.
so each time there's a leak whatever the source part of the community is hurt and feels betrayed.
Will it hurt some factions regarding the units available... Yes that's why new rule regarding proxies where revealed. It hurts but it will hurts nicelly I promise.

Event title is Uprising not cuddles.

So using "factions" is interesting. Sounds like more then just JSA.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
I'm bracing for the worst at this point (complete loss of JSA units from vanilla and ISS), but I'm hoping that CB have a bit more tact than that.

But my worst case scenario right now is basically assuming we lose everything except the Ninja. This would be pretty bad for me since, while I don't play JSA (and have no real compunction to start) there are a great many JSA units that work very well in vanilla... So losing out on Keisotsu, Aragoto, Kitsune, Raiden, and Oniwaban would be a bit of a kick in the because I'm unlikely to use this as a jumping off point to start a proper JSA force since I've never had specific interest in playing them. So if they go, may as well just shelve 'em all for the time being.

On a larger scale losing out on a great deal of our better skirmishers (Kitsune, Oniwaban), fast specialists and assault (Aragoto), excellent back-field defense (Raiden), cheap engineer (Tokusetsu), and our single best overall LI (Keisotsu) will basically put vanilla back a ways. Now, this can be mitigated with some vanilla list changes, such as giving us some AVA increases (namely for Guilang, Kanren, Daofei, Celestial Guard, Kuang Shi) as well as finally making the Zhanshi profile worthwhile (i.e. get it to 10 points or less, may I suggest getting rid of its armour and giving it an array of closer-ranged weapons like chain rifles, submachine guns, and spitfires so that they match their stated fluff better; a CG-style boarding-shotgun FO would also be great).

But as of now, I'm basically just expecting us to lose 15 profiles from vanilla (everything but the ninja) and see no other changes. I'd love to be wrong, CB haven't given me much to give them the benefit of the doubt, and for all I know we aren't even keeping the ninja.
.

Yeah, it would be like when Combined Army lost the Exrah. It was only 4 units, but at the time that was over 1/10th of CA total forces, and all 4 were good units (with two being arguably the best units in the game at the time).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
and a quote from a warcor on facebook about this.

Well part of the issues this time is that Corvus closely associated the Warcor to those news. We know what is coming, answers are coming next week.
so each time there's a leak whatever the source part of the community is hurt and feels betrayed.
Will it hurt some factions regarding the units available... Yes that's why new rule regarding proxies where revealed. It hurts but it will hurts nicelly I promise.

Event title is Uprising not cuddles.

So using "factions" is interesting. Sounds like more then just JSA.

Still hoping for Morat Separation Force.

 jake wrote:


Yeah, it would be like when Combined Army lost the Exrah. It was only 4 units, but at the time that was over 1/10th of CA total forces, and all 4 were good units (with two being arguably the best units in the game at the time).

Nobody bought them, nobody played them?

Exrah were phased out for commercial reasons, they never made the investment back and casting more of them meant loosing more money (given they ripped the moulds apart quite fast and they sold so slow).

I think they and the old CA remotes are a testament that "starfish aliens" really do not sell.