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 Riquende wrote:
* I'll admit, I sometimes make a BS attack at 14 too. Or 13, in the specific case of the Nisse.

You poor thing. How do you cope?

Wonder why they didn’t update the O-Yoroi HMG to match the current one for Yu Jing?
It still looks like a huge spitfire




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 -Loki- wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:
As riveting as discussing cardboard boxes is, anyone know when we're supposed to here this Yu Jing thing CB has said would come?

Seriously, Mods deliver us.

Yu Jing & JSA are going to need some major releases now.
What about Zoe & Pi-well?
What about some of the upcoming Aristeia releases? When will they drop?

Bostria confirmed at Rumble that the Invincible Army was the replacement for JSA. Whether it gets fast tracked or not, who knows. The first Aresteia character pack is out next month or the month after, and IIRC there's a couple more earmarked for this year.

I'm curious how these non aligned armies will operate in the BoW campaigns. I guess they could align them to their thematic closest ties - JSA fight for whoever helps free them, Bayram fights for Haqqislam, Starco for Yu Jing, etc.

Kind of unfortunate because I don’t see that including Guilang & Dao Fei.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

Spoiler:

Wonder why they didn’t update the O-Yoroi HMG to match the current one for Yu Jing?
It still looks like a huge spitfire

Because it's not a new O-Yoroi. It's the old O-Yoroi with different arms, so they probably wanted them to match across the two variant arm sets.

Have to say I’m disappointed the JSA super HI choice is just another CC beast unit.
I know he’s also pretty good at range with fatality 1 and multi rifle or red fury.

It just doesn’t seem like they’re filling a need for the sectorial with this profile.
Would have preferred something perhaps more like a dedicated fire support unit with more utility choices that don’t overlap with existing profiles.

I did hear Halqa was to be the thing for Ramah, because the mech deployment was a high tech thing. Best equipment and such. But really, I could have heard wrong.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
* I'll admit, I sometimes make a BS attack at 14 too. Or 13, in the specific case of the Nisse.

You poor thing. How do you cope?

He's English. He just hangs on in quiet desperation. It's their way.

Remember kids, read the post properly before replying!

^^^That's a bit baffling. A fitting response to a Pink Floyd reference, one might think.

No article about the Yu Jing. Still.

The uprising book and the JSA box are the sum total of April releases? This seems odd.

 Red Harvest wrote:


The uprising book and the JSA box are the sum total of April releases? This seems odd.

Thats usually what they do when they have a new book or box. Same with Red Veil, USAriadna and IceStorm.


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 Red Harvest wrote:
^^^That's a bit baffling. A fitting response to a Pink Floyd reference, one might think.

I took it as just general good advice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

Spoiler:

Have to say I’m disappointed the JSA super HI choice is just another CC beast unit.
I know he’s also pretty good at range with fatality 1 and multi rifle or red fury.

It just doesn’t seem like they’re filling a need for the sectorial with this profile.
Would have preferred something perhaps more like a dedicated fire support unit with more utility choices that don’t overlap with existing profiles.

Its kind of similar to the Sogarat, in that its big and tough, but also that it really doesn't bring much new to the army. What I mean is, the Sogarat is a solid anti-HI/TAG choice, but Morats are actually really good at killing HIs and TAGs anyway, and have a lot of options that do it about as well for much less. This new JSA HI seems to be in the same boat. It's really solid at CC and a pretty good mid ranged shooter, but JSA already has a lot of both of that (well, a lot of good CC and a fair amount of mid ranged shooting) for cheaper. But on the other hand, variety is nice and sometimes what you really do need is something that may not be the best shooting option but can stand up to a huge amount of punishment.

It is nice that the new HI has some viable linking options.

 jake wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

Spoiler:

Have to say I’m disappointed the JSA super HI choice is just another CC beast unit.
I know he’s also pretty good at range with fatality 1 and multi rifle or red fury.

It just doesn’t seem like they’re filling a need for the sectorial with this profile.
Would have preferred something perhaps more like a dedicated fire support unit with more utility choices that don’t overlap with existing profiles.

Its kind of similar to the Sogarat, in that its big and tough, but also that it really doesn't bring much new to the army. What I mean is, the Sogarat is a solid anti-HI/TAG choice, but Morats are actually really good at killing HIs and TAGs anyway, and have a lot of options that do it about as well for much less. This new JSA HI seems to be in the same boat. It's really solid at CC and a pretty good mid ranged shooter, but JSA already has a lot of both of that (well, a lot of good CC and a fair amount of mid ranged shooting) for cheaper. But on the other hand, variety is nice and sometimes what you really do need is something that may not be the best shooting option but can stand up to a huge amount of punishment.

It is nice that the new HI has some viable linking options.

I was really hoping section/unit-9 would have more of a role than just replacing the Raiden.
They really don’t have any choices in the way of hackers, engies, or docs; Really no useful/reliable HMG or MSR options.

I disagreed with CB’s recent-ish moves to homogenize sectorials
...but if they were going in that direction, they need to keep it up.

I guess JSA is totally off the board in that regard since they’re no longer included with any main factions.

I'm really hoping that there are actually more Unit-9 profiles, and this is just all we've seen because thats all thats in the box.

 jake wrote:
I'm really hoping that there are actually more Unit-9 profiles, and this is just all we've seen because thats all thats in the box.

USARF included full unit profiles for the items in the box. I'm disappointed by the lack of profiles but not surprised. Look at most new units, they tend to have few profiles unless they're high AVA.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 jake wrote:
I'm really hoping that there are actually more Unit-9 profiles, and this is just all we've seen because thats all thats in the box.

USARF included full unit profiles for the items in the box. I'm disappointed by the lack of profiles but not surprised. Look at most new units, they tend to have few profiles unless they're high AVA.

Thats true. But I believe we've had cases in the last year or two where we've been shown a unit, and then later found out it has more profiles than we were originally shown. Although I can't think of any examples. There have been instances where they add new profiles to units shortly after releasing them though. The Mobile Brigada for example.

 jake wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 jake wrote:
I'm really hoping that there are actually more Unit-9 profiles, and this is just all we've seen because thats all thats in the box.

USARF included full unit profiles for the items in the box. I'm disappointed by the lack of profiles but not surprised. Look at most new units, they tend to have few profiles unless they're high AVA.

Thats true. But I believe we've had cases in the last year or two where we've been shown a unit, and then later found out it has more profiles than we were originally shown. Although I can't think of any examples. There have been instances where they add new profiles to units shortly after releasing them though. The Mobile Brigada for example.

Mobile Brigada were released around the time of Icestorm. It wasn't until the CJC 300 point army pack last fall that we got a Boarding Shotgun LT option and that was only to make the box legal.

When the MB box was released they got two new profiles that weren't in the N3 rulebook, the Hacker and ML. They were introduced into ARMY at that time. I remember because I was still a Warcor and we spent time speculating about whether this was going to be the way things worked going forward and how strange it was to see these updates so shortly after N3 released. The same thing happened with the Jannissaries around the same time.

Since they've settled on their online army builder and PDF to be the standard for units and army lists, I'd prefer they just gave profiles for miniatures they've released.

While it reduces the usefulness of the new unit as a whole, it also removes the need to proxy other models. They can release two Ryuken with two profiles, and later down the road decide to release another profile and just add those to the army builder and army list PDF.

They dug themselves their own grave with having loads of profiles per unit and then no intention of actually releasing models for them all. Making proxying a requirement led to needing 'proxy models'. This is still fine for Link team boxes, but I'd be quite happy if they decide to limit smaller units to what they're actually planning to release.

I waited 5 years for a Farzan with a rifle. I wouldn't have been waiting for it or proxying it if the FO option just wasn't there, and would have been nicely surprised when they put the model in the Hassassin starter.

 -Loki- wrote:
Since they've settled on their online army builder and PDF to be the standard for units and army lists, I'd prefer they just gave profiles for miniatures they've released.

While it reduces the usefulness of the new unit as a whole, it also removes the need to proxy other models. They can release two Ryuken with two profiles, and later down the road decide to release another profile and just add those to the army builder and army list PDF.

They dug themselves their own grave with having loads of profiles per unit and then no intention of actually releasing models for them all. Making proxying a requirement led to needing 'proxy models'. This is still fine for Link team boxes, but I'd be quite happy if they decide to limit smaller units to what they're actually planning to release.

I waited 5 years for a Farzan with a rifle. I wouldn't have been waiting for it or proxying it if the FO option just wasn't there, and would have been nicely surprised when they put the model in the Hassassin starter.

Yeah, that makes some sense.

 -Loki- wrote:
Since they've settled on their online army builder and PDF to be the standard for units and army lists, I'd prefer they just gave profiles for miniatures they've released.

While it reduces the usefulness of the new unit as a whole, it also removes the need to proxy other models. They can release two Ryuken with two profiles, and later down the road decide to release another profile and just add those to the army builder and army list PDF.

They dug themselves their own grave with having loads of profiles per unit and then no intention of actually releasing models for them all. Making proxying a requirement led to needing 'proxy models'. This is still fine for Link team boxes, but I'd be quite happy if they decide to limit smaller units to what they're actually planning to release.

I waited 5 years for a Farzan with a rifle. I wouldn't have been waiting for it or proxying it if the FO option just wasn't there, and would have been nicely surprised when they put the model in the Hassassin starter.

In all honesty, the game really needs to evolve its release model to fit what the game has become. Back in 1st we were all convinced that anything above 10v10 was sacrilege, fire teams didn't exist (and thus there was little need more most of the line trooper options in the game) and a release of a handful of profiles every month was fine enough since this game was a little boutique skirmish game ala Confrontation and each of your dudes was an individual unique sculpt with its own character and personality to it (sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a Minuteman way).

But with Human Sphere we got de facto squads, suddenly making for individual units getting spammed in far greater numbers than before. Then came Paradiso and ITS-style missions and suddenly folks began to realize that 10 order lists weren't the limit, merely the beginning. Now many lists routinely reach 16 orders and you'll often require doubles of a great many different units (if not octuples, in the case of things like the Kuang Shi).

Now even the base unit box (4), SWC box (4) and various assorted blisters and dual-packs basically seem designed to be as wasteful (both in terms of minis and time) as possible. We aren't talking proxying a bunch of one-offs anymore, now when I field CG, I have to proxy most of the bloody unit! Worse, if the SWC box only includes one mini you wanted to field a bunch of then you're stuck either finding a retailer that does box splitting, eBaying it, or buying multiple boxes (the Space Marine Devastator conundrum if you will, back when they packed 'em with one of each weapon and no duplicates).

They really need to start designing boxes for high AVA, linkable stuff as other games would offer a squad kit. Make it a one-and-done instead of having to wait for multiple releases, let it build multiple configurations out of the box and give it enough duplicates that fans wont be forced to look to other sources to build proper units without undue amounts of waste models. Because someone may only ever want one hacker but needs two snipers for a squad build which means they're in a pickle if they pick up two SWC boxes because they're left with models that will never see the table.

The game has evolved beyond 10v10 games with a bunch of unique one-off units being the norm, but the game is still using basically the same release cycle they did back in 1st Edition (albeit with more large releases than we got in those days).

And it isn't like the game is still 100% on-board the old boutique thing anymore. Squad boxes have been bringing in generic bodies, dynamic sculpts are becoming fewer and fewer with many more generic (rage fist!) poses seeing use since they blend better in multiples (unlike dynamic sculpts which stick out like a sore thumb if you field more than one), and computer sculpting allows consistent asset re-use which makes designing all the profiles at once a lot easier than back in the hand-crafted days.

Now, who knows, maybe CB are looking to go back to the 10v10 days (they've certainly been trying out a lot of beta rules in ITS that encourage such lists to varying degrees of success), but the fact of the matter is, the game is not that anymore and short of an N4 it isn't likely to go back there any time soon. So it would be nice if they evolved their distribution to the way the game exists rather than sticking with a method that is too slow to ever hope to get all the profiles they've created.

Proxy? No proxy? Limit profiles to only available minis or let it all hang out? I'm fine with whatever, but I mostly just think CB need to fix the way they release things to be more retailer and customer friendly. Because we shouldn't have profiles we know will never see release because they just didn't both making an extra set of arms when making the SWC box, we shouldn't look at a new unit and wonder how many years it will be until we can field a fire team of them with no proxies. These are signs that the delivery method is no longer serving its purpose and needs improvement.

^^^Interesting post. Ronin, what do you feel the ideal solution is? Multiple sculpts for single profiles (like two different Fusilier snipers)? Extra arms with each release so each model can function as multiple profiles? breaking up releases into single blisters so you can buy what you want only? Something else?

Agreed completely with Ronin.

Personally, my main gripe with proxies, limiting this solely to the unit boxes they do for Linked teams, is Rifle and Boarding Shotgun models. There just aren't enough of them.

If I want to run Govads WYSIWIG, I'm running a link with a HMG, Sniper Rifle, Missile Launcher and Hacker. I'm sorry, but I just do not run my links that bloated. Even if I proxy the Hacker as just a Boarding Shotgun, I've still got 1 more special weapon than I like to run, and 1 less Rifle than I'd like to use.

My only solutions are buy a second box, which gives me second Missile Launcher, Sniper Rifle and Hacker sculpts which I just won't ever use, or hope Shae Konnit has a Govad Rifle sitting around. Considering other people are in the same boat, I'd assume the Govad Rifle is one of the in-demand sculpts.

Low effort solution? Have individual models from a box be orderable direct from CB, but Spains absurd shipping means people will likely be spending as much as the whole box anyway in your local currency.

Ideal solution? Finally accept that fact that, as Ronin said, your game has changed and you need more basic weapons in your link team boxes, and add additional Rifle arms (again, low effort just put two sets for the same body, better solution for the opposite body). That would let people buy say the Govad box, and be able to make two Rifle models (one male and one female), and two Boarding Shotgun models (one male Hacker, one female non-hacker).

I'd pay $5 more for a box if I got those basic weapon arm options. I'd pay $10 more for a box if they did the same for any special weapons, letting me buy one box and customise how I want, or two boxes and have every option I'd ever field.

I know the usual suspect will come in saying it's not possible, it will quadruple the price of a box because materials are mined on Mars and are a precious resource, but like Ronin said. They're designing the game around N1/N2 pre HS. The game has changed since then.

I've seen what Ronin_eX has said also said by others, only in not as diplomatic terms.

A solution is more minis in the box. We get 6 mini starters/samplers, so why not a 6 mini SWC box with a few extra arms/weapons? Cuts down on the blisters/SKUs.

Wondering How I ended up in Bladerunner's quote tree above?

Back to news. Adepticon seminar in 10 days. We'll see the JSA profiles sooner though, since someone is bound to post something from the box he bought on the 22nd. The Ryuken have an AVA=3, so there will be at least one more profile, to be certain.

 -Loki- wrote:
Agreed completely with Ronin.

Personally, my main gripe with proxies, limiting this solely to the unit boxes they do for Linked teams, is Rifle and Boarding Shotgun models. There just aren't enough of them.

If I want to run Govads WYSIWIG, I'm running a link with a HMG, Sniper Rifle, Missile Launcher and Hacker. I'm sorry, but I just do not run my links that bloated. Even if I proxy the Hacker as just a Boarding Shotgun, I've still got 1 more special weapon than I like to run, and 1 less Rifle than I'd like to use.

My only solutions are buy a second box, which gives me second Missile Launcher, Sniper Rifle and Hacker sculpts which I just won't ever use, or hope Shae Konnit has a Govad Rifle sitting around. Considering other people are in the same boat, I'd assume the Govad Rifle is one of the in-demand sculpts.

Low effort solution? Have individual models from a box be orderable direct from CB, but Spains absurd shipping means people will likely be spending as much as the whole box anyway in your local currency.

Ideal solution? Finally accept that fact that, as Ronin said, your game has changed and you need more basic weapons in your link team boxes, and add additional Rifle arms (again, low effort just put two sets for the same body, better solution for the opposite body). That would let people buy say the Govad box, and be able to make two Rifle models (one male and one female), and two Boarding Shotgun models (one male Hacker, one female non-hacker).

I'd pay $5 more for a box if I got those basic weapon arm options. I'd pay $10 more for a box if they did the same for any special weapons, letting me buy one box and customise how I want, or two boxes and have every option I'd ever field.

I know the usual suspect will come in saying it's not possible, it will quadruple the price of a box because materials are mined on Mars and are a precious resource, but like Ronin said. They're designing the game around N1/N2 pre HS. The game has changed since then.

I think this is why they made so many new special fireteams that mix different units or characters.
Trying to get away from 5 man links of 4 guys with a rifle and one guy with an HMG or ML.
Unfortunately Govads don’t have any options to mix in with other units.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
I think this is why they made so many new special fireteams that mix different units or characters.
Trying to get away from 5 man links of 4 guys with a rifle and one guy with an HMG or ML.
Unfortunately Govads don’t have any options to mix in with other units.

A lot of Fireteams are in the same spot as Govads. While the new design idea of smaller mixed teams is good, it doesn't fix the problem for teams that can't do it. I also wasn't talking about fireteams that are 4 rifles and a special weapon. My usual loadout is 2 special weapons, 2 rifles/boarding shotguns and a specialist. This is why I don't overly mind the 'proxy' model they pack in to linked team boxes since it usually lets me run that sort of loadout, but it's another low effort solution. Also if they didn't want '4 rifles and a special weapon' fireteams, they could have just built fireteam composition rules differently in the first place.

Basically, CB built fireteam rules in such a way that you need more basic models than they're willing to put in a box, so they've been exploring different ways to solve it. Proxy models, mixed fireteams, less profiles. The obvious answer of just sticking a few more arms in the box is one they can do, but won't.

They've finally started exploring the alternate arm approach again, so I hope it eventually bleeds over to link boxes.

 -Loki- wrote:

They've finally started exploring the alternate arm approach again, so I hope it eventually bleeds over to link boxes.

Have they? Pretty certyain Carlos said that wasn't going to happen in the Cancon video from January.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

They've finally started exploring the alternate arm approach again, so I hope it eventually bleeds over to link boxes.

Have they? Pretty certyain Carlos said that wasn't going to happen in the Cancon video from January.

New Taskmaster has 2 arm sets - 1 Red Fury, 1 HRL. The new Shikami has an arm set with a Contender, and one with no guns. Both Shikami also have alternate heads.

Considering CB said for a couple of years they wouldn't even do that, Carlos is just repeating the company line that they've already changed their mind on for part of the range.

Ah, fair enough.

 -Loki- wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

They've finally started exploring the alternate arm approach again, so I hope it eventually bleeds over to link boxes.

Have they? Pretty certyain Carlos said that wasn't going to happen in the Cancon video from January.

New Taskmaster has 2 arm sets - 1 Red Fury, 1 HRL. The new Shikami has an arm set with a Contender, and one with no guns. Both Shikami also have alternate heads.

Considering CB said for a couple of years they wouldn't even do that, Carlos is just repeating the company line that they've already changed their mind on for part of the range.

The Taskmaster is kind of a weird one. The Red Fury and HRL are interchangeable yes, but the other arm is always the same.

Shikami actually both have two different arms IIRC.
One of the new Scots(Galwegian with AP HMG I think it was?) has two arm sets.

The first product to do that sort of thing was the Kuang Shi box, wasn't it? You got four chain rifles and a shotgun (which practically meant every Yu Jing player has a spare teeny chain rifle lying around )

No, I believe the first time it was done was the original Galwegian box way back in the day. It was one of the first 4 model boxes (although the second iteration of those models), if I remember correctly. It came with an extra set of Boarding Shotgun arms.

Including multiple sets of arms limits them to some rather boring poses. Most of the SWC boxes have really lame poses because everything needs to fit interchangeably with a head/arm swap.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
Including multiple sets of arms limits them to some rather boring poses. Most of the SWC boxes have really lame poses because everything needs to fit interchangeably with a head/arm swap.

And yet, it'd still be better than what we have now. I've long advocated for them to take the time and effort to add at least one extra set of arms into each SWC box.
Example, USARF Grunts:
LMG(M)
Sniper(F)
Rifle+LGL(F)
HFT(M)

Add in a Rifle arm that matches with each weapon option, that gives you potentially 4 more unique Rifle sculpts.
Add in a 'mirror' SWC for each type. A female HFT, male Sniper, female LMG, male rifle+LGL.

Anyways: