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2018/03/15 16:49:42
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
It is an opinion, not universally shared, it may make the poses even more boring, and many would prefer to go to even more individualised sculpts for support boxes instead.
That is not a good option though I am afraid, new sculpting techniques show some promise on creating more dynamic sculpts on the 4 model boxes, but needs more work.
2018/03/15 19:43:18
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
Bladerunner2019 wrote: Including multiple sets of arms limits them to some rather boring poses. Most of the SWC boxes have really lame poses because everything needs to fit interchangeably with a head/arm swap.
You man, the sort of poses that look like soldiers advancing, firing, etc - rather than the limbo dancers, gymnasts and just suffering from poorly-timed spasms?
2018/03/15 22:43:06
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
Bladerunner2019 wrote: Including multiple sets of arms limits them to some rather boring poses. Most of the SWC boxes have really lame poses because everything needs to fit interchangeably withdoesn't. Youd/arm swap.
You man, the sort of poses that look like soldiers advancing, firing, etc - rather than the limbo dancers, gymnasts and just suffering from poorly-timed spasms?
I think he means poses that make the models look like actual living people that engage in realistic human motions instead of constipated toy soldiers that are clutching their guns and kind of vaguely looking around. Im not sure why so much of the Infinity community seems to think "dynamic" means "backflipping". It doesnt you can have a dynamic model in a realistic shooting pose or running pose. Infinity actually does that well whem it tries. But too often the poses look like lifeless manaquins.
2018/03/15 23:08:38
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
Bladerunner2019 wrote: Including multiple sets of arms limits them to some rather boring poses. Most of the SWC boxes have really lame poses because everything needs to fit interchangeably withdoesn't. Youd/arm swap.
You man, the sort of poses that look like soldiers advancing, firing, etc - rather than the limbo dancers, gymnasts and just suffering from poorly-timed spasms?
I think he means poses that make the models look like actual living people that engage in realistic human motions instead of constipated toy soldiers that are clutching their guns and kind of vaguely looking around. Im not sure why so much of the Infinity community seems to think "dynamic" means "backflipping". It doesnt you can have a dynamic model in a realistic shooting pose or running pose. Infinity actually does that well whem it tries. But too often the poses look like lifeless manaquins.
They've been doing those 'constipated soldiers' poses already anyway, and not only in link team boxes. For example, the Asawira Spitfire is a one and done single pose solo model. In a constipated soldier pose.
2018/03/16 00:56:06
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
they absolutely have. They've always been there, but they've become more common since they switched over to digital modeling. Of course, they've done some beautifully dynamic poses as well in digital, so I'm not sure if the growing number of less dynamic, more static and constipated poses (which are really 3 different complaints, although they are often found in one miniature) are a result of current art direction, sculptor preference (the gentleman who does most of MAF and USAriadna has a tendency toward less dynamic poses, although his work has other strengths), or something else.
As someone else said above, the 4 bodies/2 poses problem presented by the 4 models boxes has long been a contributor to some really awkward and dull poses.
Anyway, I'd love to see more arm/weapon options, and would pay more for that. Or I'd love to be able to buy each option separately. Or I'd love to be able to buy more than one unique model for each profile. But I can also see the problems with each of those options. I don't know if those problems are insurmountable. CB has long said that the 4 models/2 bodies practice was a cost saving feature. So if they're unwilling to actually produce 4 unique sculpts for a box, doing more seems even more unlikely.
2018/03/16 01:06:21
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
4 model, 2 pose boxes can be done right without having a noticeably repeated pose. The Ghazi box is a good example, with one leg per pose being different as well as the arms and head. It's harder to look at it and see the same 2 bodies, and there's only one static pose in the set.
The price was a tad higher, being in the upper end of 4 model box prices, but I happily paid that because the 4 models look great.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/16 03:29:00
2018/03/16 02:38:10
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
I'd have hoped the Morlock box would signal moving away from that 2-bodies-4-models box model, or at least having better ways of pretending they arent the same (morlocks disguise this fair well by having the very different heads and arms that kinda change the dynamics of the posing).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/16 02:39:49
So many games, so little time.
So many models, even less time.
Screw it, Netflix and chill.
2018/03/16 03:18:38
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
Micky wrote: I'd have hoped the Morlock box would signal moving away from that 2-bodies-4-models box model, or at least having better ways of pretending they arent the same (morlocks disguise this fair well by having the very different heads and arms that kinda change the dynamics of the posing).
I doubt that will happen.
They’ll never again make models like the old Zero, the hacker ninja, oniwaban, asawira with rifle, croc man hacker.
New asawira was a big opportunity lost to make a really great mini. Just looks like he’s taking a dump.
Is that a natural 21?
Nomads & Yu Jing
2018/03/16 06:57:57
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
-Loki- wrote: 4 model, 2 pose boxes can be done right without having a noticeably repeated pose. The Ghazi box is a good example, with one leg per pose being different as well as the arms and head. It's harder to look at it and see the same 2 bodies, and there's only one static pose in the set.
The price was a tad higher, being in the upper end of 4 model box prices, but I happily paid that because the 4 models look great.
It's weird because with all the work they put into making those models different (as well as with the Morlocks Micky mentioned) they might as well have just made 4 separate models anyway. I always think of the old Yaogat box (which was one of the early sets of 4 model boxes) and how they actually WERE 4 unique models because they did unique heads for each one, even though the heads were attached to the bodies. So its not as if they didn't have to make 4 separate molds. And they've actually done similar things with a lot of these sets. How much money are they really saving with this 2 poses/4 models strategy? I would have thought 3d rendering would have made doing 4 unique poses a lot easier and cheaper than before anyway.
2018/03/16 12:47:28
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
It is still cost cutting because its just two bodies, so there are less molds needed, less parts to store and short out.
Surprisingly or not, the metal needed is not the biggest cost of the model (though it is a big part once the model gets bigger) the parts breakdown and mold wear are.
2018/03/16 13:41:05
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
Sure, it does save money if it is two molds (or less mold space). But thats often not actually the case. If you look at the recent Morlocks and the Ghazi they have whole sets of extra parts. Those may be part of the same mold, but they may not. And then there's stuff like the Yaogat which is actually 4 different versions, even though they reuse the same pose twice. So no money saved on molds there either. And the Yagots aren't the only example of that.
I often wonder about how they do their molds. If you look at a set with 2 pairs of matching bodies and 4 sets of arms, how is that divided up? Are the arms all on one mold, and the two bodies on another? or is there a different layout? I'm always very curious about this stufff.
2018/03/16 14:12:50
Subject: Re:The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
As you already know, the unthinkable has happened in the Infinity universe, and the Japanese regions along with the Japanese army, the JSA, has seceded from Yu Jing after a bloody conflict. This is a change of great importance, not just for the background but also for the wargame, due to the consequences it brings. This release not only affects two factions, one of them with great weight in the game, but also heralds the appearance of a brand-new faction-group: The Non-Aligned Armies (NA2), which brings to the table the Mercenary Companies.
Apart from the hype and Wow! effect that this maneuver has, we had to think about the consequences from a fluff-wise and game-wise realistic point of view. In Infinity the background holds a lot of importance, influencing not only game factors, but also business decisions, due our love for this wargame, we like to improve constantly.
You have to understand that we were looking for a clear and evident evolution for the Infinity storyline. We didn’t want to just release a new book that added new material to what you have already seen, we wanted something that changed it. We wanted to offer a new scenario that is different from the previous situation. The Uprising had to be an event with consequences, and this not only brings us gains, but also losses.
The JSA after the Uprising would be without the backup of a major power as they were within Yu Jing, so their resources would be limited. Restrictions to some troop Availability, and some modified profiles with different values were things that would show this aspect. In exchange, the JSA troops gain experience, with mixed Fireteams that present us with a new reality, where the Domaru are the natural leaders which other troops follow.
However, beside these changes, and a subtle but higher versatility achieved in the process, the JSA has not lost an ounce of character, still being an aggressive assault force. We have always considered it to be an army inspired by the Bushido and the samurai doctrine, and that was something we did not want to lose.
The other factor in the Uprising equation was Yu Jing. Personally, I always considered it very important to explain the reasons why the StateEmpire could not avoid the Japanese secession. In the Infinity Uprising book, it is explained how the political side of the Japanese Uprising determines the ceasefire thanks to international pressure, planned and orchestrated from the beginning by the kuge aristocracy, the Japanese elite, but also detailed is the dramatic evolution of the combats on the different battlefronts. The “Chronology of the Uprising” chapter explains how, logically, despite the stubbornness of the Japanese troops, the different secessionist regions (the Japanese archipelago on Earth, the Martian, Svalarheiman and Paradiso colonies, and Japanese Human Edge space stations) would have never been able to withstand a long war against the StateEmpire war machine.
But the most relevant question was to decide and define the situation in which the Yu Jing StateEmpire would end up after the Uprising. On the one hand, with all the Japanese areas seceded from Yu Jing, except for Kuraimori ‒Shentang‒ now turned a police state, the Japanese population of the StateEmpire has been severely reduced. Plus, the massive support of all the Japanese population for the Uprising ensured that all Japanese citizens are now more politically suspicious to the Party’s eyes than before, even being possible traitors. Evidently, it is not a situation that could help to sustain a loyalist Japanese force, if there were any left that is, especially after the brutal actions undertaken by the Imperial Service during and after the Uprising, as you can see in the “Kuraimori, hell under martial law” chapter. For that reason, it was easy to reach the conclusion that very few Japanese living inside the Yu Jing territory could remain loyal to the StateEmpire. However, the main argument against the support of “loyalist” units was that the Party could not let a suspicious population with previous history of sedition to have access to military grade gear.
The only exception to this was the ninjas, given that they have always been considered people without honor, the antithesis of the righteous samurai. During the times before the Uprising, the great ninja clans, with their special units such as the Oniwaban, or the Shikamis from the Fukurō clan, had big government contracts for the JSA and the StateEmpire army. However, these great clans would be the ones supporting the Uprising, declaring loyalty to the Japanese Emperor. This decision would open a door for the small clans, giving them access to lucrative contracts with the StateEmpire that were previously out of their reach. For this reason, ignoring their ideals, these clans positioned themselves on Yu Jing’s side, showing loyalty to the StateEmpire during the conflict, fighting their compatriots. Evidently for those big clans loyal to the Japanese Emperor, that would be the greatest betrayal, a reason why all those loyalist ninjas cannot expect any fate other than death.
In this way the post-Uprising situation was laid out. A setting where an independent, but still weak, Japan must find allies against an aggressive StateEmpire, always ready to claim again it’s lost territories, and most of all to avenge itself and punish the rebels.
It literally told us nothing about the future of the Yu Jing faction (outside of reiterating the units we knew we were losing), gave no hints about how they would fill the gap, and was basically just an article to shill for the new book. Coming on the back of the laughable quote they put up on FB to build hype via turning Yu Jing in to fu manchu twirling yellow peril pulp villains in an otherwise grounded near-future sci-fi setting and... Yeah, this whole thing has been handled in a pretty disappointing way. Certainly not getting the book at this point either way, especially not if that's the level of background I can expect in it.
I was expecting so little, and still ended up disappointed. I guess I'll pop back by whenever the IA show up.
2018/03/16 18:07:54
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
There is an obliviousness to the article. He stands unaware that Infinity is a tabletop miniatures game first and foremost, and that changes to the game itself need to be made for purposes of balance, or improvement, not for "fluff".-- how I abhor that term. In a RPG, this can certainly happen, and does. The background for the game is just a nice extra; it is to serve the game, not vice versa.
From a business standpoint, as Ronin said, no word about the future for the Yu Jing faction is only going to irritate and already disgruntled set of players/customers. Uncertainty leads to players leaving, and customers hesitating on purchases. I've seen this. Yes, anecdote is not the singular of data. Meh.
CB will certainly have a plan for Yu Jing. They should state it clearly, now.
Bostria will be at Adepticon next week. I wonder if a disgruntled Yu Jing player or two will put a flea in his ear? Or if the iN-crowders will shield him?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/16 18:12:13
2018/03/16 19:07:16
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
PsychoticStorm wrote: I really and honestly do not see were you see the comical depiction of Yu Jing, but anyway.
Because of this kind of moustache twirling nonsense:
Spoiler:
Do you really think the background is not important? it is the most important part of the IP.
Literally nobody is saying that "the background is not important".
What is being said is that background should not be the sole driver behind everything and that Interruptor(and to an extent, the other higherups at CB) don't quite understand that this is not a RPG.
2018/03/16 19:38:01
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
Tail wagging the dog. People learn the background after taking up the game. The visual appeal and the game play are far more important for attracting, and keeping players. How many people 'know' the background before they start playing? Ah Ha!
2018/03/16 19:38:35
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
PsychoticStorm wrote: I really and honestly do not see were you see the comical depiction of Yu Jing, but anyway.
Because of this kind of moustache twirling nonsense:
Spoiler:
Do you really think the background is not important? it is the most important part of the IP.
Literally nobody is saying that "the background is not important".
What is being said is that background should not be the sole driver behind everything and that Interruptor(and to an extent, the other higherups at CB) don't quite understand that this is not a RPG.
I understand the frustration you have with these changes, and I know CB has been cagey in the past with changes.
I just dont see them stripoing Yu Jing of some of their best assault units without significant compensation coming soon.
I would really wait before getting really outraged over this. It makes so much more sense for JSA to be on its own. Maybe they will use this opportunity to give Yu Jing some actual character. They have always been pretty bland in all their descriptions. Its kind of cool to see their oppression of minorities expressed in the game itself now by splitting the faction off.
Is that a natural 21?
Nomads & Yu Jing
2018/03/16 19:45:29
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
Red Harvest wrote: Tail wagging the dog. People learn the background after taking up the game. The visual appeal and the game play are far more important for attracting, and keeping players. How many people 'know' the background before they start playing? Ah Ha!
More than that, you literally cannot get background for an army without buying a book or downloading it illegally. They're weirdly protective over that stuff on the official forums; people were getting censured and even banned for it when N3+HSN3 dropped.
That's fine and dandy, but it's a bullet in the head of the argument that constantly gets used that "you don't need the books to play the game" if background is supposed to be some great component of gameplay.
I understand the frustration you have with these changes, and I know CB has been cagey in the past with changes. I just dont see them stripoing Yu Jing of some of their best assault units without significant compensation coming soon.
They've been doing it for ages for several Sectorials, so yeah. I absolutely do see them doing it.
I would really wait before getting really outraged over this. It makes so much more sense for JSA to be on its own. Maybe they will use this opportunity to give Yu Jing some actual character. They have always been pretty bland in all their descriptions. Its kind of cool to see their oppression of minorities expressed in the game itself now by splitting the faction off.
It was "expressed" before in the background. It was "expressed" before by the existence of the Kuang Shi.
This was just invalidating people's collections, effectively, for naught but background reasons. There were better ways to go about this and Interruptor(and by extension CB) should have known better. At this point, they're just trying to play the victim of being "poorly understood" or that their "fans are unreasonable". It's what they always do.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/16 19:54:43
2018/03/16 20:12:38
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
Oh they have been doing it for ages for several sectorials, Proof Kan proof.
Invalidating players collections? hardly, given how many JSA units Yu Jing players ever used in their lists if a player had a lot of JSA units they were playing JSA not vanilla Yu Jing.
And yes I do not see the "cartoon evil" on the quote, cruel psychological propaganda, yes.
2018/03/16 20:14:12
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
Red Harvest wrote: Tail wagging the dog. People learn the background after taking up the game. The visual appeal and the game play are far more important for attracting, and keeping players. How many people 'know' the background before they start playing? Ah Ha!
More than that, you literally cannot get background for an army without buying a book or downloading it illegally. They're weirdly protective over that stuff on the official forums; people were getting censured and even banned for it when N3+HSN3 dropped.
That's fine and dandy, but it's a bullet in the head of the argument that constantly gets used that "you don't need the books to play the game" if background is supposed to be some great component of gameplay.
I understand the frustration you have with these changes, and I know CB has been cagey in the past with changes.
I just dont see them stripoing Yu Jing of some of their best assault units without significant compensation coming soon.
They've been doing it for ages for several Sectorials, so yeah. I absolutely do see them doing it.
I would really wait before getting really outraged over this. It makes so much more sense for JSA to be on its own. Maybe they will use this opportunity to give Yu Jing some actual character. They have always been pretty bland in all their descriptions. Its kind of cool to see their oppression of minorities expressed in the game itself now by splitting the faction off.
It was "expressed" before in the background. It was "expressed" before by the existence of the Kuang Shi.
This was just invalidating people's collections, effectively, for naught but background reasons. There were better ways to go about this and Interruptor(and by extension CB) should have known better.
At this point, they're just trying to play the victim of being "poorly understood" or that their "fans are unreasonable". It's what they always do.
I probably don't care as much because i started with infinity right after Paradiso collecting JSA & then branched into Yu Jing. Only really started buying them a lot because ISS finally got some love.
I pretty much only play sectoral lists bcs the mashup of drastically different untits is always a turn off.
To me this us all a natural extension of where the game has been heading since sectorial lists were introduced. I'm only disappointed because this means I'm officially collecting 4 factions and will want more stuff now...
Is that a natural 21?
Nomads & Yu Jing
2018/03/16 20:14:30
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
I just dont see them stripoing Yu Jing of some of their best assault units without significant compensation coming soon.
Frankly they keep the Ninja and this is what got the most heavy use from JSA units, almost nobody used JSA assault units in Yu Jing they have better HI for that roles.
2018/03/16 20:54:14
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
I'm not outraged. I am concerned that CB has chosen unwisely. Statements like: "It will be a hard year for Yu Jing players" mean to me that at the end of the year, there will be fewer Yu Jing players. Nobody plays a game because they want a hard year. Do they?
And who knows what awaits the other factions? Hard years for them? not really something to entice people to take up the game, or continue it.
2018/03/16 20:57:43
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
I know at least one player who really likes Shinobu but for the most part I agree. I've always found JSA to have almost no bleed into vanilla, so the point where for a lot of people that wanted the Red Veil Ninja, the Yu Jing starter was a more frustrating purchase than the Haqq stuff.
2018/03/16 21:04:42
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
LunarSol wrote: I know at least one player who really likes Shinobu but for the most part I agree. I've always found JSA to have almost no bleed into vanilla, so the point where for a lot of people that wanted the Red Veil Ninja, the Yu Jing starter was a more frustrating purchase than the Haqq stuff.
It's literally the same case for ASA and NCA players with regards to the Uhlan/Tikbalang or the components in the vanilla PanO starter.
Nomads was at least a bit more CJC-y than anything else, but even then that had people frustrated for other reasons.
2018/03/16 21:19:59
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
People will always be frustrated unless they're basically bit ordering their bespoke selectoin; at which point they'll be frustrated at the cost of buying singles. Someone is always frustrated for some reason.
My point is more that JSA really felt unique in how little of it people took in vanilla. At least in nomads you see a pretty common cycle of the starter building into CJC, which then bleeds down into vanilla which ends up building into Bakkunin. I've just generally seen a lot less overlap in YJ and JSA collections outside of faction completionists. I found it just as likely for players to play Invincibles + Something else or JSA + Something else than pairing those together.
2018/03/16 21:30:51
Subject: The Infinity News and Rumors Thread - The 2018 Edition
LunarSol wrote: People will always be frustrated unless they're basically bit ordering their bespoke selectoin; at which point they'll be frustrated at the cost of buying singles. Someone is always frustrated for some reason.
Well yeah, people will be frustrated in that regards. It's a frustrating thing when you collect a single faction but have to pay for an item that you don't want or you have to pay an outrageous price while hoping that it's not a popular item from what amounts to one vendor.
My point is more that JSA really felt unique in how little of it people took in vanilla. At least in nomads you see a pretty common cycle of the starter building into CJC, which then bleeds down into vanilla which ends up building into Bakkunin. I've just generally seen a lot less overlap in YJ and JSA collections outside of faction completionists. I found it just as likely for players to play Invincibles + Something else or JSA + Something else than pairing those together.
The issue with that is it also ties into how products are packaged.
CJC and Vanilla flow pretty well since you have the starter package(and several supplemental items) being flagged as CJC. Bakunin follows a similar path but also has its roots in having boxes that make army building easy.
JSA didn't really have that, and much of their stuff also had issues with being Skirmishers or other items that benefit best from being Linked which means it didn't really have a great appeal in vanilla.
You see the opposite with Ariadna, where basically "vanilla" means "cherrypicked the best stuff and called it a day".
