Total War: Three Kingdoms (Moving on to next game?)

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**Overread**

Argive wrote:
Is there a deal on this game on steam yet?

No its not that old yet - though you can oft get it a little cheaper on Fanaticals https://www.fanatical.com/en/game/total-war-three-kingdoms
They are a legit store (new name of Bundlestars), though even there you can't use most of their extra discounts on the game, but its probably the best price you'll get from a legit store.

**Argive**

Thanks man.

I still have plenty of the other total war(WH1,2 and Rome 2) games DLC to enjoy so it should be on sale by the time I'm done with those hehe

**LordofHats**

I wouldn't expect a sale on steam till maybe the Winter sales, and it'll probably only be 5% cause the game is still selling well. It's maybe the most financially successful Total War game they've ever made..

**Argive**

Well maybe I'll treat myself if finances are good tail end of the year

**A Town Called Malus**

LordofHats wrote:
I wouldn't expect a sale on steam till maybe the Winter sales, and it'll probably only be 5% cause the game is still selling well. It's maybe the most financially successful Total War game they've ever made..

Yeah, even the Warhammer ones don't get that heavily discounted yet, especially when you factor in all the DLC.

**LordofHats**

When I said most successful they've ever made, I didn't realize it meant a million copies in a week damn

And Sony/EA would call that a failure because they overbudgeted and drove their workforce into the ground for "meager" sales.

**Overread**

In fairness the chinese market is getting bigger - as the articles say's there some 300million gamers. Whilst that might be stretching the definition of "gamer" that's still an obscene market size. *

Three Kingdoms was always going to do well and the fact that they also chose to follow the dynasty Warriors visual style, which pretty much defines the romance period characters to many gamers; has likely boosted their potential sales dramatically.

I'm glad to see CA getting a real powerful winner. Warhammer did phenomenally well, but also changed a fair few things in the series and that earned CA some flack; plus adding women to Rome 2 added more flack and then Britannia was a decent, but not revolutionary title. So having 3 Kingdoms really get a fanastic pick up from the community is very rewarding to see.

* I can well see a time where studios use the Chinese market for big releases and almost use the western market for more pet-projects in comparison - or at least a strong rise in eastern influenced titles and themes. Which is no bad thing as new cultures and ideas are a neat thing to see in games.

**nels1031**

Overread wrote:
plus adding women to Rome 2 added more flack and then Britannia was a decent, but not revolutionary title.

Forgetting Atilla: Total War after Rome 2 and between Britannia gives me frowny face!

I think Medieval 3 will smash Three Kingdoms sales records fwiw.

Back to Eight Princes : Sima Wei ( first of the princes to be revealed)

https://www.totalwar.com/games/three-kingdoms/eight-princes/sima-wei/?fbclid=IwAR3deU9hMCo9KawWp_0yp6fQquCMtvKKI-9cAflgsY9fZrtsi9gbgRT71CA

Sima Wei was one of the sons of Emperor Wu, original founder of the Jin dynasty, and was given military command of Jing province at the young age of 18. Known for his volatile temper, but also generous to the people and his troops, he joined Empress Jia in a conspiracy to overthrow Yang Jun. Now his troops are marching into Luoyang, establishing the political and martial pressure in the name of Empress Jia. Nevertheless, Sima Wei is loyal to the Jin, and will not hesitate to do what is best for the empire.

PLAYSTYLE

An aggressive expander, he will be able to field armies more efficiently and cheaply if he can maintain momentum. This means a big upkeep reduction and replenishment bonus when his Fury is high. Fury is his unique resource and represents his vigor, his tempestuousness and his spirit in defending the authority of the empire. Fury will make others weary and jealous, so it risks isolating him diplomatically, though his military power should be able to match this. He can also vent some of his energy into rewarding his followers through assignments and gifts.

GUANXI

Sima Wei’s is accompanied by his two trusted assistants, Qi Sheng and Gongsun Hong. Both are loyal to Sima Wei, and both share resentment against Sima Wei’s rival Sima Liang. Sima Wei can count on both, be it in military matters or in matters of political intrigue.

START POSITION

Sima Wei starts within grasp of the capital Luoyang, and his powerbase is well-established. He has two vassals, the Prince of Nanyang to the east, and the Prince of Ba to the west. While these can initially provide great support, they will eventually open new fronts against common enemies as well. Sima Wei’s starting commandery, Shangyong, is relatively secure and has a Master Weapon Craftsmen, but its terrain is mountainous and difficult to traverse. Therefore, as Sima Wei, it will be vital to extend your powerbase early in order to increase the extent of your military range.

WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS HE FOR?

For players who like to be driven forward at all times, and who not only want to feel rewarded themselves for taking risks, but who also like to share their spoils with their followers and comrades.

**Eumerin**

Odds and ends...

Empress Jia gets a brief mention in that snippet. She's an important individual for this period, but might not be touched on again as she's not one of the princes. If you've played Dynasty Warriors, then you might remember the easy-going Sima Zhou, who comes out on top at the end. And you might remember that in the more recent games, he has a sinister advisor, Jia Chong.

That's Empress Jia's father.

Emperor Wu, son of Sima Zhou and founder of the Jin Dynasty, described Lady Jia thusly - "... Lady Jia is jealous, ugly, short, and dark-skinned."

Despite Emperor Wu's apparent misgivings, Lady Jia was married to the mentally incompetent crown prince. And when Emperor Wu died, Lady Jia became Empress Jia.

She bore her husband four children. Unfortunately, all of them were girls. Her husband's only son - and thus heir - was by another wife, and Jia eventually had him killed.

When her husband took the throne, the previous empress - the Empress Dowager - maintained an iron grip on control of the capitol. This rankled Empress Jia, and she began to look for ways to dislodge the Empress Dowager. She eventually conspired with her husband's brother, Sima Wei, to remove the Empress Dowager via military force. As a result of this, she is often seen as one of the chief instigators of the War of the Eight Princes that followed.

And on another note, here's my response when someone questioned as to whether this new material really had anything to do with the Three Kingdoms focus of the game -

Yes, the Three Kingdoms were reunited. But the dynasty that reunited China - the Western Jin Dynasty - lasted for such a brief period of time that it almost didn't count. And the reason why it didn't last for very long was largely because of the struggle that is the focus of the DLC.

The game starts around 190. Wu fell in 280, officially reuniting China under the Sima family. That's ninety years.

Just eleven years later, in 291, the War of the Eight Princes started. It lasted for about 15 or 16 years, ending in 306 or 307. The "victor", Sima Yue, died just a few years later in 311. And Luoyang and Chang'an had both fallen to the barbarians by the end of 316, just five years after Sima Yue's death.

Or in other words, within thirty-six years, the heirs to the Sima family managed to piss away all that their forebears had accomplished.

That's pretty freaky when you think about it. It took ninety years to put China back together after the destruction of Luoyang. And it came back apart again in less than half that time.

**LordofHats**

If not for the legendary nature of Wu Zeitan's cruelty (fairly earned or otherwise), Empress Jia might easily qualify as the most "hated woman" in Chinese history. She basically buried the entire dynasty (and she was a complete idiot, none of her plans really worked the way she wanted, and they all made things inevitably worse), though it didn't help that no one bothered to tell Sima Zhou/Emperor Wu just how bad his son's condition was. It seems no one wanted to speak up, so he didn't realize how mentally incompetent, mentally incompetent was. The poor kid reportedly didn't even understand sex, but he still had a dozen children.

It's worth noting though that Jin can still be seen as an important transitional dynasty. The Jin retreated to South China and lasted until 420 and during that time a lot of important economic developments occurred and carried ramifications for China that long outlived the Jin.

**Grey Templar**

LordofHats wrote:
The poor kid reportedly didn't even understand sex, but he still had a dozen children.

Well... Its entirely possible that he wasn't the real father.

**nels1031**

Some more patch/DLC additions, as well as a response to those that felt the main campaign is getting left behind:

With the upcoming release of Eight Princes for THREE KINGDOMS, there’s also some additional free content (alongside continued fixes and tweaks to the base game) that will be available for everyone in the main campaign.
Eight Princes will bring with it new units to the base game:
• Cataphracts
o Available to Vanguards
o Require the 'Shock Warfare' technology
• Heavy Cataphracts
o Available to level 6+ Vanguards
o Require the 'Barded Mounts' technology
• Mounted Crossbows
o Available to Strategists
o Require the 'Divine Manipulation of Threads' technology
• Heavy Mounted Archers
o Available to all level 6+ characters
o Require the 'Swiftness is the Key in War' technology
We've also added 17 new armour variations for generic generals that can now be generated by buildings in the main campaign and gained by characters.
We’ve also seen some of your concerns around Eight Princes and want to address them. Eight Princes is an interesting period of history and will lead to great gameplay for Total War – when we sit down and choose what chapter of history to focus on next, the game is always at the forefront of our minds. There’s no point in choosing what seems to be an interesting period of history if it doesn’t make any sense within a Total War game – it’s got to be fun to play, as well as exciting to read about.
When it comes to the Chapter Packs, we’ve mentioned before that these are something we want to do for THREE KINGDOMS, but it doesn’t mean that it’s the only kind of DLC that you’re going to get. We’re planning more expansion-type content, as well as more DLCs like the Yellow Turbans, which add new playable factions to the main campaign.
We’ve also seen a lot of you asking for more characters in the main campaign (or turning some of our generic characters into unique characters), and this is something we absolutely would like to do moving forwards.
If Eight Princes isn’t for you, that’s okay – as we just said, there’s a wide range of content planned, and we’re pretty sure some of it will appeal to you

You can count me in as someone who had a wary eye on this DLC at first, as it seemed like too much of a departure from the base game, but as long as they get a chapter pack for the founding of the Yuan dynasty or even a Kublai: Total War (still a long ways off historically) I’ll be happy. And who am I kidding, Total War DLC is the only DLC I consistently still buy. I’ll get all the chapter packs tbh.

**LordofHats**

Grey Templar wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
The poor kid reportedly didn't even understand sex, but he still had a dozen children.

Well... Its entirely possible that he wasn't the real father.

Huh. I wonder if any historians of the period have asked that question XD

Automatically Appended Next Post:

nels1031 wrote:
You can count me in as someone who had a wary eye on this DLC at first, as it seemed like too much of a departure from the base game, but as long as they get a chapter pack for the founding of the Yuan dynasty or even a Kublai: Total War (still a long ways off historically) I’ll be happy. And who am I kidding, Total War DLC is the only DLC I consistently still buy. I’ll get all the chapter packs tbh.

I think with a few caveats, Total War generally releases good DLC. They don't charge you $20 for a mission pack that'll last an hour and has nothing particularly interesting in it. Total War DLCs generally do what DLCs should do; expand the base game.

I'll probably by the Princes DLC and play it. Probably enjoy it too. I'm just disappointed other things didn't come first, and that's pretty much solely because I'd like to see a few things in the base game patched up so mileage may vary.

**Grey Templar**

LordofHats wrote:

I think with a few caveats, Total War generally releases good DLC. They don't charge you $20 for a mission pack that'll last an hour and has nothing particularly interesting in it. Total War DLCs generally do what DLCs should do; expand the base game.

Yeah.... except when the DLC is for stuff that should have been in the base game already. Or is in the game, its just in the form of a faction that is unplayable unless you buy the DLC.

$19 to unlock the Wood Elves or Beastmen is a rather jerk move. I mean, yes it is a DLC with a lot of content. Its just content that should, and indeed is, in the base game.

They've basically locked game mechanics behind a paywall.

IMO, a $19 DLC should add extra stuff to the entire game. The only time it should unlock a faction is if its multiple factions and they're a faction that weren't in there already as an NPC faction. I do miss old school total war where all factions were unlocked as you played the game.

**LordofHats**

I think the Wood Elves were worth it. You got a whole new faction with a unique playstyle distinct from everyone else and two variations on it. Totally worth. They also weren't in the base game at all. I think they stuck some empire rebels or something over there originally?

Beastmen however were not worth it. Beastmen were a halfassed faction with an incomplete unit roster, no unique mechanics to justify the cost or enhance replay value, and gakky balance. I've never played a WTW game where the Beastmen were a meaningful threat, because their roster is that gak. They weren't in the original game either, but they hardly added anything to the game once put in so...

Also the "blood and gore" DLCs have always been stupid.

**Grey Templar**

LordofHats wrote:
I think the Wood Elves were worth it. You got a whole new faction with a unique playstyle distinct from everyone else and two variations on it. Totally worth. They also weren't in the base game at all. I think they stuck some empire rebels or something over there originally?

Beastmen however were not worth it. Beastmen were a halfassed faction with an incomplete unit roster, no unique mechanics to justify the cost or enhance replay value, and gakky balance. I've never played a WTW game where the Beastmen were a meaningful threat, because their roster is that gak. They weren't in the original game either, but they hardly added anything to the game once put in so...

Also the "blood and gore" DLCs have always been stupid.

I've never bought the wood elf DLC, but the faction exists as an AI faction when I play.

**LordofHats**

The way CA does DLC now, the factions get added to the base game whether you buy the DLC or not. Buying the DLC lets you play as them. Like how the Yellow Turban factions are in Three Kingdoms whether you buy the Yellow Turbans DLC/got or not.

I'd have to check, or someone can fact check me, but I think when WTW first released the Wood Elves weren't there and some Empire rebels were occupying that part of the map at the time. Skarsnik and Belegor (however you spell the names too lazy XD) weren't there either until their Warlord pack got released. Actually, the WTW map was a lot like the Three Kingdoms map in a way when the game first released. You only had the Dwarves, Orcs, Empire, and Chaos at release and the rest of the map was mostly filled with Empire rebels or minor Dwarf/Orc actions. I think only the Goblins had distinct NPCs before a faction DLC hit to increase map diversity.

I'm kind of 50-50 on that. On the one hand, it lets people who didn't buy the DLC still benefit from it in a way. The new faction still appears on the map, and can be played against. At the same time, does the company really need to charge $20 just for access? I think it has to be a damn good faction to justify that cost. Wood Elves I think were worth the $20. The Beastmen were not.

**Grey Templar**

That is correct, they got added after the DLC was released. But that still makes them part of the base game. Unless you've never updated your game files, you can't play Warhammer Total War without the Wood Elves being in it now.

If they were going to charge $20, I would at least have wanted multiple factions in the bundle.

**nels1031**

Grey Templar wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
I think the Wood Elves were worth it. You got a whole new faction with a unique playstyle distinct from everyone else and two variations on it. Totally worth. They also weren't in the base game at all. I think they stuck some empire rebels or something over there originally?

Beastmen however were not worth it. Beastmen were a halfassed faction with an incomplete unit roster, no unique mechanics to justify the cost or enhance replay value, and gakky balance. I've never played a WTW game where the Beastmen were a meaningful threat, because their roster is that gak. They weren't in the original game either, but they hardly added anything to the game once put in so...

Also the "blood and gore" DLCs have always been stupid.

I've never bought the wood elf DLC, but the faction exists as an AI faction when I play.

Athel Loren at release was just a large, impassable forest at the games release, there were no provinces to populate, no placeholder faction holding down their territory until their DLC was fleshed out. Just blank forest. It was probably the best bang for your buck DLC that they released, in that it actually added to the original game map, in addition to adding what LoH mentions above.

**Eumerin**

Grey Templar wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
The poor kid reportedly didn't even understand sex, but he still had a dozen children.

Well... Its entirely possible that he wasn't the real father.

It's possible. But it's also possible for a woman to stimulate the necessary physical responses if the man isn't actively trying to stop her, and there aren't other reasons (like ED) that the male can't perform.

And there would have been quite a few people interested in producing a legitimate heir.

As for TW:WH DLC factions - the Tomb Kings in the second game also weren't present until their DLC was released. There was a VC faction in that region instead. I'm fine with CA including the factions as opponents even if you don't own the faction, as I suspect that it makes multi-player stuff easier when you have players using a mix of DLC.

not for the legendary nature of Wu Zeitan's cruelty

Ironically, when Wu Zetian declared herself Empress, she also declared her rule under the Jin Dynasty, instead of the current dynasty (Tang, iirc). But the revived Jin Dynasty only lasted as long as she did, and the dynasty reverted back after her death.

**Voss**

LordofHats wrote:
I think the Wood Elves were worth it. You got a whole new faction with a unique playstyle distinct from everyone else and two variations on it. Totally worth. They also weren't in the base game at all. I think they stuck some empire rebels or something over there originally?

Beastmen however were not worth it. Beastmen were a halfassed faction with an incomplete unit roster, no unique mechanics to justify the cost or enhance replay value, and gakky balance. I've never played a WTW game where the Beastmen were a meaningful threat, because their roster is that gak. They weren't in the original game either, but they hardly added anything to the game once put in so...

Also the "blood and gore" DLCs have always been stupid.

The blood and gore dlcs basically exist so they can sell the base game to other markets without issue. Some of them have decent animations/effects, others just look like they took a brush with too much red paint to the unit models.

**Eumerin**

Iirc, the original blood and gore dlcs were free. It wasn't until later that they started charging for them.
I got them when they were free. But I don't care enough to pay for them.

**LordofHats**

If they were free my opinion would be different.

**Overread**

LordofHats wrote:

I'm kind of 50-50 on that. On the one hand, it lets people who didn't buy the DLC still benefit from it in a way. The new faction still appears on the map, and can be played against. At the same time, does the company really need to charge $20 just for access? I think it has to be a damn good faction to justify that cost. Wood Elves I think were worth the $20. The Beastmen were not.

Thing is Warhammer is so vastly different from CA's normal. Normally most of the different armies they add to games are purely a reskin of existing animated assets etc...
However with Warhammer each army is totally alien to the others, requiring its own host of designs and animations, some have more arms or don't even have legs or they have loads of legs. So each army was a much more major reworking right from the core. I appreciate the costs honestly, because when you compare it to RTS games the cost of a new army in Warhammer TW was bout the same as a regular old expansion pack for a game; and you'd maybe only get a new army then (most times you didn't).

As for the whole "buy to play as" part I think that's purely CA making multiplayer work and also making their campaign maps work. Otherwise they'd have to redesign maps for each possible owning combination; and in multiplayer players would get annoyed if they couldn't play against factions they didn't own. Meanwhile they'd argue if they can do that then then why can't the faciton just appear on the campaign map. It's also partly marketing too of course, playing against Wood Elves is going to make people more interested in them and more likely to buy into them.

Plus each time they released a paid DLC they also released some free DLC too. So on the whole I feel they handled it well. It's expensive if you want to buy full price in one go, but the games do go on sale regularly and buying as they released the prices felt fair and well spaced out. The only real mistake was how they broke Norsca and they fixed that without any community backlash to demand the fix be made (of course there was loads of griping that people didn't have Norsca "now" but CA didn't resist reworking and making it work).

**nels1031**

Next prince : Sima Lun

WHO IS HE?
Sima Lun, Prince of Zhao and Sima Yi’s youngest son, was an egomaniac who was willing to go to any length to secure power. Historically, it was through his actions that the War of the Eight Princes started in earnest; having convinced Empress Jia to assassinate the crown prince, he then accused her of treachery and had her and her family killed. Although acting as regent to Emperor Hui at first, it was not long before he declared himself emperor, drawing the ire of the other princes and starting a cycle of war and betrayal that would shake the Jin dynasty for years to come.

PLAYSTYLE
Sima Lun is a self-serving schemer, willing to engage in subterfuge and treachery in order to acquire riches and power for himself – even if it means sacrificing the efficiency of his own administration! He builds ‘Subterfuge’ through acts of espionage and by developing his own corrupt judiciary building chain; having plotted sufficiently, he expends this resource in order to control other factions in diplomacy.

GUANXI
Sima Lun may delight in deviousness, but it is said that the true cunning behind his ambition lies in the hands of his trusted advisor, Sun Xiu! An inseparable pair, there are no depths to which Sun Xiu would not have his prince stoop in pursuit of wealth and power.

START POSITION
Sima Lun presides over the fertile lands of Shangdang and Ye, north of the Yellow River; securing the entirety of Shangdang and moving into the Taiyuan mountains will give him a solid power-base and source of income, removing his initial threat and allowing him to focus south towards the capital all the while. Sima Yong – the Prince of Hejian – is nearby, and although they begin on fair terms his opportunism poses a threat to Sima Lun’s ambitions. Prepare for war!

WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS HE FOR?
Any player looking to double-down on clandestine activity should embrace Sima Lun’s subterfuginous style, driven as it is by performing spy actions and enabling some powerful diplomatic chicanery. Being a sneak has never felt so good!

Though we're only 1/4th into the reveals, he seems like the kind of guy I want to kill first. My douchebag radar is pinging off the charts. Gameplay wise, I'm also leary about the part that says " he expends this resource in order to control other factions in diplomacy". All I felt when I read that was "Here comes another version of the Vassalizing Train that we saw in early 3Kingdoms campaigns!"

**Grey Templar**

nels1031 wrote:
Next prince : Sima Lun

WHO IS HE?
Sima Lun, Prince of Zhao and Sima Yi’s youngest son, was an egomaniac who was willing to go to any length to secure power. Historically, it was through his actions that the War of the Eight Princes started in earnest; having convinced Empress Jia to assassinate the crown prince, he then accused her of treachery and had her and her family killed. Although acting as regent to Emperor Hui at first, it was not long before he declared himself emperor, drawing the ire of the other princes and starting a cycle of war and betrayal that would shake the Jin dynasty for years to come.

PLAYSTYLE
Sima Lun is a self-serving schemer, willing to engage in subterfuge and treachery in order to acquire riches and power for himself – even if it means sacrificing the efficiency of his own administration! He builds ‘Subterfuge’ through acts of espionage and by developing his own corrupt judiciary building chain; having plotted sufficiently, he expends this resource in order to control other factions in diplomacy.

GUANXI
Sima Lun may delight in deviousness, but it is said that the true cunning behind his ambition lies in the hands of his trusted advisor, Sun Xiu! An inseparable pair, there are no depths to which Sun Xiu would not have his prince stoop in pursuit of wealth and power.

START POSITION
Sima Lun presides over the fertile lands of Shangdang and Ye, north of the Yellow River; securing the entirety of Shangdang and moving into the Taiyuan mountains will give him a solid power-base and source of income, removing his initial threat and allowing him to focus south towards the capital all the while. Sima Yong – the Prince of Hejian – is nearby, and although they begin on fair terms his opportunism poses a threat to Sima Lun’s ambitions. Prepare for war!

WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS HE FOR?
Any player looking to double-down on clandestine activity should embrace Sima Lun’s subterfuginous style, driven as it is by performing spy actions and enabling some powerful diplomatic chicanery. Being a sneak has never felt so good!

Though we're only 1/4th into the reveals, he seems like the kind of guy I want to kill first. My douchebag radar is pinging off the charts. Gameplay wise, I'm also leary about the part that says " he expends this resource in order to control other factions in diplomacy". All I felt when I read that was "Here comes another version of the Vassalizing Train that we saw in early 3Kingdoms campaigns!"

Yeah, those sounds interesting if its a human player controlling it, but the AI will probably be totally broken with it. Especially at higher difficulties where the AI just gets free resources.

**nels1031**

Next Prince up:

Sima Ai

WHO IS HE?
Sima Wei’s brother of the same mother (concubine Consort Shen), Sima Ai was praised by many for his filial piety. He supported Sima Wei in his coup against regent Sima Liang, and when Empress Jia had Sima Wei executed, Sima Ai was demoted as the supporter of a criminal. In subsequent years, he became known as a reformist, and as a diligent administrator with humility and great talent. Of all the princes, he was possibly most dutiful to the true Emperor Hui, despite his disabilities, and always paid him respect. Sima Ai wanted to reform the government, and amid the constant flip-flop between centralised government and decentralised liberalism during the Later Han and early Jin periods, Sima Ai tried to be a driver for a modern approach to liberalism. The most poignant moment of Sima Ai’s life came at the end: before being burned to death as a traitor by the rebels Sima Ying and Sima Yong, he wrote a touching farewell letter to Emperor Hui.

PLAYSTYLE
Sima Ai was a political reformist and a filial administrator. As such, his playstyle is focused on the civic side and developing a reformed infrastructure. He is about focusing on a de-centralised government and liberal administration, represented by certain building choices. He will have to balance the need for centralised infrastructure with other elements and create a balanced approach to commandery management. If he can modernise the government successfully, he will be rewarded with better research rates, higher public order, a less corrupt government apparatus, and more efficient trade.

GUANXI
Huangfu Shang is one of Sima Ai’s closest advisors and military commanders. He fought various battles for his superior, while being rewarded with higher offices under Sima Ai’s superiority. Huangfu Shang was also rival of Li Han, who was the scheming lieutenant of Sima Yong.

START POSITION
As the Prince of Changsha, Sima Ai starts relatively far away from the capital in a good position. He also has a Master Armourer region in his control right at the start. To the north, the Yangtze river provides a good defence, but the terrain in the south is difficult to manoeuvre, so expansion will be difficult.

WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS HE FOR?
Sima Ai is for the player who focuses a lot on civic infrastructure, and who enjoys administration of their commanderies. He is also for players who believe in political liberalism and who want to reduce direct state-driven control and its corruption.

Seems like a faction that can turtle up and make bank just from upgrading buildings. Also, reading his fate he seems like he is the prototypical "nice guys finish last" dude.

**LordofHats**

Sima Ai is basically Cao Cao with great historical publicity. Functionally the two men were remarkably similar (a major focus of administrative reform and, depending on the source, filial piety). Maybe the one distinction between them is that Sima Ai lacked Cao Cao's knack for cut throat politics, which is how he wound up dead from what should have been a fairly obvious reversal at the time.

**Eumerin**

I thought the real life Cao Cao had an issue with micro-managing things at times? That sounds different from the decentralization-focus Sima Al is supposed to have.

Of course, that tid-bit about Cao Cao might be wrong.

**LordofHats**

Eumerin wrote:
I thought the real life Cao Cao had an issue with micro-managing things at times? That sounds different from the decentralization-focus Sima Al is supposed to have.

Of course, that tid-bit about Cao Cao might be wrong.

Maybe. I’d need to go look. Cao Cao got turned into a villain during the period before and after the Sun dynasty as people in China increasingly lionized Shu-Han. His negative traits were enhanced and his more nobler traits ignored or twisted. Cao Cao to my knowledge was generally lauded by his contemporaries for picking men of talent and trusting them to fulfill their duties without his direct oversight (though that doesn’t inherently mean he wasn’t a control freak).

Sims AI always seemed similar to me. Reform minded, ambitious bit nominally loyal to the Emperor, and with an eye for talent. He simply lacked the same ability to judge the intentions of others, a talent Cao Cao made excellent use of.