Total War: Three Kingdoms (Moving on to next game?)

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**nels1031**

Halfway there! The 4th prince revealed:

Sima Jiong

WHO IS HE?

Sima Jiong was a highly regarded young official who was once considered a proper heir, even to Emperor Wu, though he was eventually expelled from the capital. As an imperial prince, Sima Jiong had many imperial troops under his command, and as a well-regarded government official, he supported the initial coup against Empress Jia for the threat she formed to the existing power structure. He then allied against the initial ursurper, Sima Lun, and through the success of this alliance, Sima Jiong became increasingly abusive of his position and increasingly power hungry.

PLAYSTYLE

A most capable military commander and known for his domineering attitude, Sima Jiong works best when taking matters into his own hands. His resource – Control – is won through military feats and by building a network of judiciary buildings, but is diminished by having other characters take up ministerial positions within the faction: nobody can hope to be his equal in government! A balanced approach is possible however; by maintaining a high level of control, Sima Jiong can curb corruption and public order issues, though he risks dissatisfying his generals by denying them the promotions they desire!

GUANXI

Wang Bao was a government official and commander who tried to maintain order and lawfulness within the empire. He became a supporter of Sima Jiong and later gave some valuable historical accounts during the conflict between Sima Jiong and the alliance of Sima Ying, Yong, and Ai.

START POSITION

As the Prince of Qi, Sima Jiong has a powerful starting position owning properties in two different commanderies: The commandery of Beihai, a valuable breadbasket, and the entirety of Taishan commandery, including its trade port. After eliminating his initial opposition in Beihai, his position is relatively secure. The road to the capital is free, but he will have to be wary of the opposition of the other princes when heading towards the centre of the map. He will need to seek allies and choose his strategy wisely, or he will see himself isolated diplomatically.

WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS HE FOR?

Players who want the challenge of maintaining a faction where the true power lies largely in the hands of a single warlord should opt for Sima Jiong. He’s perfect for the decisive and domineering individual!

**Eumerin**

Sounds like the character for players who are tired of dealing with all of the minister stuff, and just want to focus on the campaign map.

**nels1031**

I had toyed with ignoring the minister stuff during a playthrough as the Tyrant faction, but the benefits usually outweighed the negatives. My method was to build up “Intimidation” or to promote someone right before a battle that you knew you were going to win. Your meter goes down after the promotion, then goes back up after winning the battle. There would be a negative balance sometimes, but it definitely softens the hit that a promotion costs.

Its an interesting mechanic that makes you think about your decisions.

**Eumerin**

Next up - Sima Ying

Who is he?

Handsome, but never considered the sharpest tool in the box, Sima Ying developed a good reputation as being filial and lenient, and for listening to the advice of his capable advisor Lu Zhi. As his influence grew however, he became power-hungry and arrogant, and increasingly involved in political schemes. It is unclear if this was due to Lu Zhi’s manipulation, or whether Lu Zhi was the one who actually kept him in control. He became the Prince of Chengdu when he was only 10 years old, but was later transferred to another office after disrespecting Emperor Hui’s son Sima Yu. He was placed in charge of the military defence post for the important city of Yecheng, which was a backwater, but an important breadbasket all the same.

Playstyle

Sima Ying knows his intellectual limitations, and thus relies on powerful advisors to lead his faction, an empowered council who have a wider impact on how the faction is run. This means that choosing the right ministers is of vital importance for Sima Ying, and powerful synergies can be created from combining the right characters for these offices.

Guanxi

Sima Ying starts with two trusted advisors. One is Lu Zhi, his loyal advisor, who some refer to as the key mind behind Sima Ying’s ascent to power. The other is Lu Ji, a former imperial chancellor of the Eastern Wu, who is a famous writer and literary critic. He also acts as one of Sima Ying’s military commanders.

Start Position

Sima Ying starts in control of Chengdu Commandery, and is well-nested in one of the most prominent breadbasket regions in Ancient China. Consequently, his starting position is very secure and quite powerful. To the north and south, his neighbours are friendly, but conflict is brewing with the Princes in Hanzhong and Ba, both of which are friends with Sima Wei, so conflict between Sima Ying and Sima Wei might be unavoidable.
What kind of player is he for?

Sima Ying is for players who know that a ruler cannot operate on his own. He is for those who believe that a wise ruler surrounds himself with capable allies and loyal followers, and allows these advisors to shape and direct the future of his faction.

**nels1031**

Seems like he can get a powerful economy with his faction bonuses and not have to worry too much about character satisfaction/ province rebellions, I suppose. And starting out at one extreme of the map, he only has essentially one war front to worry about. North of him are mountains that take forever to navigate and the provinces south of him border a river which also takes some time to cross. Dude can get a powerful base of operations pretty quickly.

Probably one of the easier factions to play, judging off his start position and faction bonuses, but who knows what dilemma's might pop up.

**nels1031**

Sima Liang

WHO IS HE?
When Emperor Wu died, Sima Liang – fourth son of the great Sima Yi – was denied the regency by the scheming Yang Jun, eager to maintain control over Emperor Hui for himself. Honourable and eager to avoid conflict, Sima Liang retired to his estates until, following a coup, Yang Jun was overthrown. Sima Liang was finally given an opportunity to help restore order. It was not long before the ambitious and fearful Empress Jia issued false orders to Sima Wei – Sima Liang’s great nephew – declaring Sima Liang a traitor and ordering his capture. Tragically, the tempestuous Sima Wei had Sima Liang executed after his capture, the first casualty of the War of the Eight Princes. One cannot help but wonder what might have been had Sima Liang made a stand…

PLAYSTYLE
Sima Liang is the rightful imperial regent, as decreed by the late Emperor Wu, but at every turn has had his efforts to establish peace and order thwarted by the ambitions of others. Now accused of treason by Empress Jia and hunted by his kinsman Sima Wei, he must re-establish his lawful jurisdiction over the people, thereby allowing him to expand without reprisal. He can achieve this maintaining a small but well-developed domain, growing tall whilst securing the cooperation of vassal princedoms to support his claim.

GUANXI
Sima Liang’s family cannot stand idly-by as he faces the repercussions of Empress Jia’s accusations of treachery! He is joined in his campaign by his two sons, Sima Ju – his heir – and Sima Cui, both eager to help restore their father’s reputation and oust the corrupt from power.

START POSITION
The Prince of Runan presides over his lands south of Luoyang, the local mines providing a steady stream of industrial income. His lands are under threat however; in the wake of his branding as a traitor, he now finds himself beset from the west by the princes of Nanyang, Shunyang and Jiangling, and with Sima Wei only a short march away. As such, he must look eastward for support: Cao Huan, the last emperor of Wei and now Prince of Chenliu, is a man of honour who may be eager to support Sima Liang’s restoration.

WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS HE FOR?
Sima Liang’s playstyle is suited to those who wish to grow tall, preferring slow expansion and a focus on establishing one’s lawful right to rule and developing one’s domain whilst creating a network of vassals to help establish a strong position in the world.

This one looks to be my favorite so far. From his start location, it seems like he'll have enemies at his door right out of the gate, which is how I like my Total War.

**Eumerin**

The quoted text mentions the last Wei emperor. It's worth noting that ancient China had a tradition of allowing a reigning emperor to "voluntarily" abdicate from the throne. Emperor Xian, the last Han emperor, abdicated in favor of Cao Pi, Cao Cao's heir. Emperor Xian was given a title of nobility (duke, iirc), and allowed to live out the rest of his life. It's believed that Sima Zhou (second son of Sima Yi, and therefore Sima Liang's older brother), was planning on doing the same to the current Wei emperor. But Zhou died before he could go through with it, and his son ended up being the one to make it happen. That emperor was also granted a title of nobility, and allowed to live out his life.

That's not to say that the abdicated ruler wasn't viewed with suspicion on some political circles. But that's how the idea worked in theory.

**LordofHats**

Sun Hao, the last Wu emperor also lived out his life. He was made a Marquis (with a somewhat insulting title) by Sima Yan and his sons became junior officials. Pretty sure one of them ended up being important in something. Can't remember what.

**Eumerin**

LordofHats wrote:
Sun Hao, the last Wu emperor also lived out his life. He was made a Marquis (with a somewhat insulting title) by Sima Yan and his sons became junior officials. Pretty sure one of them ended up being important in something. Can't remember what.

Liu Shan, the emperor of Shu Han, was also allowed to retire and live the rest of his days in peace. But both of those men were essentially conquored rulers. The abdication tradition allowed for an internal insurrection in which the ruler was displaced by a member of his own country, but allowed to retain his life and the perks of nobility. In most countries, such an individual would be executed as a safety precaution.

Of course, by the time someone was in a position to force the Emperor to abdicate, the emperor usually had no political power and thus no ability to foment trouble for his successor.

**nels1031**

Sima Yong

WHO IS HE?
Known for finding skilled associates and assistants, Sima Yong had the reputation of being a capable military commander and a good defender, and was tasked with the defence of the city of Chang’an. Sima Yong had a good reputation among other government officials, and was cited as a “great example of filialty”, but later showed more shrewd characteristics by switching sides in various conflicts. He’s one of most experienced leaders (military and civic) among the eight princes, having taken his office in 277.

PLAYSTYLE
Sima Yong is a commander and knows how to exploit the military even for civic purposes. Despite his experience, he needs to be mindful and take the right precautions – he won’t find victory in this conflict by rushing into glorious battle. Instead, calculated security and utilising his military to boost the infrastructural development of his commanderies are the keys to Sima Yong’s success.

GUANXI
One of Sima Yong’s most trusted advisors is Zhang Fang, one of the most prominent military generals and commanders during the war of the Eight Princes. Zhang Fang is hightly capable, but is known to make sacrifices whenever it serves his cause – he famously deported and slaughtered 10000 slaves and fed them to his troops.

START POSITION
Sima Yong starts in the north-east, in Pingyuan commandery, a potent industrial centre of salt production. Sima Yong is at war with the Prince of Zhangwu, in Bohai commandery to the north, which invites an early expansion northwards and makes consolidation of the north a valid early-to-mid game strategy. Later on, Sima Yong will want to turn southwards, towards the capital, to compete with the other princes – most prominently Sima Lun.

WHAT KIND OF PLAYERS IS HE FOR?
Sima Yong encourages a conservative and defensive playstyle where you progress cautiously, while building up your defences and your infrastructure. Your settlements will generally be better protected from enemies, and you can use your military to make developing your infrastructure more efficient.

This guy and the previous one are my favorites so far, Probably going to start with this guy though.

One more prince left!

**Eumerin**

It looks like they saved Sima Yue, the eventual "victor", for last.

**nels1031**

Speaking of victor, who historically won the main campaign?

This DLC is a sequel to that event from what I gather, but I don't recognize any character names in any of these lore blurbs. Isn't this only a generation or two after the end of the Three Kingdoms, or did I read incorrectly?

I'm subscribed to a Three Kingdoms podcast to understand the lore and politics between the characters, but I haven't even started.

**LordofHats**

nels1031 wrote:
Speaking of victor, who historically won the main campaign?

Do you mean the War of Eight Princes, or the Three Kingdoms?

The War of Eight Princes was nominally won by Sima Yue, but that was a rather empty victory since the Jin rapidly suffered in the Wu Hu uprising (essentially analogous to the Goths rising up against the Romans).

Of the Three Kingdoms, the winner was more or less the Sima family. After Cao Cao's death, his descendants Cao Pi and Cao Rui were capable. However, Sima Yi gradually came into conflict with others over the regency and support of Cao Rui's successor Cao Fang. Sima Yi won that conflict, and his sons Sima Shi and Sima Zhao in succession deposed the last Wei emperors and founded the Jin Dynasty in 266. Cao-Wei exploited weakness and division in the Shu-Han Court to rapidly conquer Shu-Han in 263, and the Jin would take advantage of disorder and weakened defenses to conquer Eastern Wu in 280.

Depending on how you look at it, either none of the Three Kingdoms won, or Cao-Wei won but as the early Jin Dynasty (a big part of the romanticization of the Era is the subsequent conflicts and rule over the Han Chinese by non-Chinese groups in coming centuries, which the Jin generally take blame for culturally, so people look back at the Three Kingdoms are the more legitimate successors to the Han).

**Eumerin**

Southern China did remain under Han control under the Eastern Jin Dynasty. Geographically, it was much larger than the northern regions. But the population was more sparse, which balanced things out (and is also why the north was considered "more important").

As far as the Three Kingdoms are concerned, Wei (under the Sima family) was the only kingdom in the later period to have good leadership. Liu Bei's son. Liu Shan, is believed to have been a little slow mentally (and there are those who blame this on his being dropped on his head by his father during a particular apocryphal incident). And his lead general was obsessed with all-out war against Wei, leading to expensive campaigns that the country couldn't afford.

I don't know much about Wu's ruler during the late period. But based on what I've heard, it seems as if he may have been full-on malevolent.

As for Wei -

Sima Yi and his two oldest sons - Shi and Zhao - were very smart and talented. Cao Cao was able to safely utilize their talents, as were his initial heirs. But Sima Yi grew unhappy about the extravagences of later heirs. He also got into a squabble with his co-regent. When the squabble erupted, he initially pretended to concede to his co-regent. But when the latter made the mistake of taking most of his supporters on a hinting trip, Sima Yi seized control of the capitol. Once he had that, he was effectively the one running the country.

**LordofHats**

Eastern Wu basically suffered Sun Quan becoming a bit demented in his old age. During his youth he was an extremely capable ruler, arguably the best of the three men he competed with for most of his life (Liu Chan, Cao Pi, and Cao Rui). Unfortunately he became unstable in his old age.

During a spat between two sons, one of whom was Crown Prince, Sun Quan overreacted. One was executed and the other he exiled. This left only his youngest sons to rule on his death, which sparked a series of violent succession crises in Eastern W. Sun Xiu was nominally capable but died relatively early into his rule which sparked another series of succession crisises (Mostly wars over regency of the state, since most of the last Sun family emperors were all young).

During this time Wu was still secure because of extremely competent and widely loved administrators and generals from the Ding, Lu, Zhuge, and Kong families. Regular rebellions and succession crises took their toll however and Jin conquored Wu when the last Emperor, Sun Hao, proved to be fairly incapable of ruling wisely and tended to kill and exile people who told him things he didn't want to hear. This resulted in a weakening of Wu's armies and defenses, making way for Jin armies to quickly defeat the state.

**nels1031**

Thanks for the lore education LoH and Eumerin!

‘Dynasty Mode’ coming. Doesn’t really appeal to me at all, but I’m sure some will enjoy it.

The brand-new Dynasty Mode for Total War: THREE KINGDOMS will be released alongside the Eight Princes Chapter Pack DLC on Thursday the 8th of August 2019. Developed in partnership with Intel, Dynasty Mode is a new horde-style arcade mode for Total War: THREE KINGDOMS where you choose three heroes to fight off as many waves of units as you can.

Check out our handy FAQ below for everything there is to know about Dynasty Mode!

FAQ
WHAT IS DYNASTY MODE?
Dynasty Mode is a new horde-style arcade mode for Total War: THREE KINGDOMS where you choose three heroes to fight off as many waves of enemy units as you can.

Made in partnership with Intel, the mode will take extra advantage of your hardware to render larger and larger unit sizes depending on your PC’s spec.

Dynasty Mode challenges you to create a composition of different character classes who complement each other in battle, thus achieving swift destruction of the enemy while still surviving to fight off future waves.

HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN PLAY DYNASTY MODE AT ONCE?
Dynasty Mode can be played solo or online in three-player co-op mode with friends.

HOW ARE CHARACTERS DIFFERENT IN DYNASTY MODE?
Characters are legendarily powerful, far more so than in Romance Mode, while troops are weaker – in fact, they will fall to a single blow. Characters also have powerful new abilities with which to heal each other or fell ranks of troops at a stroke, and gain upgrades to spend between waves on further skills.

Enemy waves grow in strength and size over time, and every third wave contains powerful enemy heroes, which characters can earn extra upgrades by slaying.

Players can also up the challenge by expanding enemy unit sizes by up to 600%, testing their heroes’ skills – and their PCs’ performance – to the max!

HOW DOES SCORING WORK IN DYNASTY MODE?
Points are awarded:

Every time you damage a unit
Every time you kill a unit or cause them to retreat
At the end of a wave
Each unit is worth 1,000 points once they have been completely destroyed, with up to 20,000 points in total up for grabs following completion based on how fast you finish the wave. This bonus slowly ticks down over time, and will reach 0 if you spend 10 minutes or more trying to clear a wave.

WILL INCREASING UNIT SIZES IN DYNASTY MODE AFFECT MY GAME’S PERFORMANCE?
Dynasty Mode was developed in conjunction with Intel’s engineers to help the THREE KINGDOMS engine take better advantage of multi-core CPUs. Increasing unit sizes creates a greater CPU overhead, with more unit interactions and calculations required at the entity level. This enhanced multithreading enables superior performance the more cores the CPU has, so moving from quad-core to hex-core and eight-core processors is where you see the greatest framerate gains.

Dynasty Mode’s required specifications are the same as the main Total War: THREE KINGDOMS game, and as it has been developed with Intel it will work with all hardware. However, unless you have a very high-powered PC, dramatically increasing unit sizes may negatively impact your frame rate or cause gameplay behaviours you won’t see in the main game.

WHEN WILL THE DYNASTY MODE BE RELEASED?
The update which includes Dynasty Mode will be automatically downloaded for all owners of Total War: THREE KINGDOMS alongside the release of the Eight Princes DLC on Thursday the 8th of August 2019.

IS THERE A PRE-PURCHASE DISCOUNT?
Dynasty Mode will be available to download for free!

WILL IT BE RELEASED ON MACOS AND LINUX?
Dynasty Mode will be released on macOS and Linux shortly after its release on PC.

**Eumerin**

Is it April 1? Because a Total War version of Dynasty Warriors sure as heck LOOKS like an April 1 announcement...

They're not even trying to disguise where the inspiration came from. Dynasty Mode? That's seriously the name?

**LordofHats**

Eumerin wrote:
Is it April 1? Because a Total War version of Dynasty Warriors sure as heck LOOKS like an April 1 announcement...

They're not even trying to disguise where the inspiration came from. Dynasty Mode? That's seriously the name?

Don't care. I'm on board.

Dynasty Warriors 9 sucked.

**nels1031**

Does Warhammer have this mode? I’d be all about that, but this doesn’t move the needle for me.

**Grey Templar**

Not that I'm aware of. Besides, the way you'd beat that would just be to have Kholek Suneater.

**nels1031**

Grey Templar wrote:
Not that I'm aware of. Besides, the way you'd beat that would just be to have Kholek Suneater.

I’d mainly just want to see what the mage characters can do, flinging spells out left and right. Which I suppose I could do in a custom battle in some fashion, but this mode just looks more fun than that.

I need to get my PC fixed :(

**Eumerin**

Grey Templar wrote:
Not that I'm aware of. Besides, the way you'd beat that would just be to have Kholek Suneater.

If it's possible to mod, then I bet someone will add it before long.

Or CA might decide to put it in as a feature for the third game.

**Grey Templar**

nels1031 wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Not that I'm aware of. Besides, the way you'd beat that would just be to have Kholek Suneater.

I’d mainly just want to see what the mage characters can do, flinging spells out left and right. Which I suppose I could do in a custom battle in some fashion, but this mode just looks more fun than that.

I need to get my PC fixed :(

You'd have to give them unlimited magic to draw on or a highly accelerated winds of magic regeneration. Mages in WH:TW usually get a few big spells off and then fizzle out. Which is fine since most battles last less than 5 minutes, but in a perpetual tower defense situation it would not be great. They're still characters so they'll beat down grunts in droves, but they'll die eventually as they're still squishy.

**nels1031**

Grey Templar wrote:
nels1031 wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Not that I'm aware of. Besides, the way you'd beat that would just be to have Kholek Suneater.

I’d mainly just want to see what the mage characters can do, flinging spells out left and right. Which I suppose I could do in a custom battle in some fashion, but this mode just looks more fun than that.

I need to get my PC fixed :(

You'd have to give them unlimited magic to draw on or a highly accelerated winds of magic regeneration. Mages in WH:TW usually get a few big spells off and then fizzle out. Which is fine since most battles last less than 5 minutes, but in a perpetual tower defense situation it would not be great. They're still characters so they'll beat down grunts in droves, but they'll die eventually as they're still squishy.

Yeah, I'd assume that if they added this mode to WH1+2(probs just WH2 at this poitnt) that it would have a magic regen mechanic, like this mode has health regen.

More I think about it, the more this mode is appealing to me. Not something I'd sink hours into, but could be fun for a bit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Last Prince, and the eventual "winner" as I believe someone mentioned above.

WHO IS HE?
Sima Yue is an efficient bureaucrat and shrewd powermonger who mastered the political game better than the other Princes. He used the intricacies of the court, and his own machinations, to not only outmanoeuvre his rival princes, but also to contain the power of the Emperors Hui and Huai. As a cousin of the Jin dynasty’s founder Emperor Wu, his tenure as Prince of Donghai began in 291, and during the war of the eight princes, he held numerous offices in the capital and within the Jin government.

PLAYSTYLE
Sima Yue is about exercising his authority and maintaining his political influence. This is measured by his ‘Influence’ resource, which he can accumulate by overseeing local government through powerful assignments, performed by the most influential people within his faction. He also has two unique government positions that increase the efficiency of his administration. Even though military is not his focus, he will have to be mindful not to be bested on the battlefield, as defeat in battle will diminish his Influence. High Influence means bonuses to construction and settlement development, and a faster pace for implementing reforms.

GUANXI
Sima Yue is accompanied by his loyal officer, He Lun, who stayed by his side throughout the whole conflict. Equally, Princess Pei, Sima Yue’s wife, is worth mentioning as a character full of resilience and resolve. She was eventually enslaved, had to flee multiple times, and was ultimately executed by her political enemies.

START POSITION
As the Prince of Donghai, Sima Yue controls Donghai commandery, a good food producing area with a fishing port and a well-developed city. His initial enemies lie to the west, and conflict with the Prince of Pengcheng can lead to an important extension of Sima Yue’s power-base into central China. From here, control of the empire lies within his grasp, but with great opportunity come great danger…

WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS HE FOR?
Sima Yue is for the politically minded, who like to control government and administrative aspects of rulership. As Sima Yue, you will have to concern yourself with maintaining your influence across your realm, and with managing the various positions and tasks for your government officials.

**Trondheim**

Yawn this looks like another grab for cash by CA. Il gladly pass,

**LordofHats**

So, 8 Princes totally snuck up on me. Who is playing who, and how is it going?

**nels1031**

LordofHats wrote:
So, 8 Princes totally snuck up on me. Who is playing who, and how is it going?

Haven't had a chance just yet. My PC is out of commission for the week, so won't know until this time next week. Looking forward to it.

For what its worth, its at "Mixed" reviews on Steam, which I didn't expect given how positive reviews are on Three Kingdoms. Though "Netease" is coming up in alot of the negative reviews, so I'm sure its not entirely based off of valid gameplay reviews.

**LordofHats**

Well it is a desk in campaign. Those haven’t always been well received, though fans tend to buy and play them anyway.

**Not Online!!!**

So ca made a deal with netease.

Rip, total war.

**Overread**

Isn't that deal purely to bring their game formally to the Chinese market? I can't see how it could blowback on CA and change their process or such. The only thing it might result in is if the sales there are REALLY good they might make more asian themed games?