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I like quantum shielding but it basically guarantees my opponent is going to use all of their high damage weapons on killing my heavy destroyers even faster.

 wuestenfux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Have a look at Necron Warriors with their gauss weapons.
Their shooting against Land Raiders was legendary in the previous editions.
But now? How do they strip off 16 wounds against a model with 3+ save?

what Necrons need is a dedicated anti tank unit for this edition

Indeed, weapons with D3 to D6 damage are important in this edition.

agreed. and it's a great problem for necrons to have as it means GW can legit sell another kit.

BrianDavion wrote:
what Necrons need is a dedicated anti tank unit for this edition

wuestenfux wrote:
what Necrons need is a dedicated anti tank unit for this edition
Indeed, weapons with D3 to D6 damage are important in this edition.

Necrons already have a good anti vehicle unit, the heavy destroyer. All it needs is a point drop to something like 50. Buffed with MWBD they hit on 2+, rerolling 1s. AP-4 ignores 3+ armor. Place them in cover and they arent easy to kill with T5, W3, 2+ sv. And if one dies they have RP.

In addition gauss or tesla weapons (dont remember which one glanced a vehicle in 7th on a 6) could do an additional wound on a wound roll of 6 to a vehicle, regardless of toughness.

Im not a Necron player per say, tho i have an army i just dont play them really.


But IMO the 2 main rules (RP and QS) are WAY to easy to ignore, and when your army wide rules dont work, you dont have those buffs anymore. Literally those rules just dont work and needs to be re-written fully.

QS just needs to be, -1 damage unless its 1 damage (like many other units) and RP needs to be a 5+++ always (even when a vehicle dies and you lose a model).

 p5freak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
what Necrons need is a dedicated anti tank unit for this edition

wuestenfux wrote:
what Necrons need is a dedicated anti tank unit for this edition
Indeed, weapons with D3 to D6 damage are important in this edition.

Necrons already have a good anti vehicle unit, the heavy destroyer. All it needs is a point drop to something like 50. Buffed with MWBD they hit on 2+, rerolling 1s. AP-4 ignores 3+ armor. Place them in cover and they arent easy to kill with T5, W3, 2+ sv. And if one dies they have RP.

In addition gauss or tesla weapons (dont remember which one glanced a vehicle in 7th on a 6) could do an additional wound on a wound roll of 6 to a vehicle, regardless of toughness.

like you said, they aren't bad but need to be cheaper. Most games an opponent will just focis on killing off all your heavy deatroyers early on and basically neuter your army.

Heavy destroyers alone will not bring Necrons on par with other armies when it comes to destroying tanks or monsters.

Noooo, RP should not be a simple FNP roll. Infantry that dies and then comes back is what makes necrons necrons. Without that they are just robot death-guard.

I think making warriors and immortals 10 and 14 points each would be a better start.

pismakron wrote:
Noooo, RP should not be a simple FNP roll. Infantry that dies and then comes back is what makes necrons necrons. Without that they are just robot death-guard.

I think making warriors and immortals 10 and 14 points each would be a better start.

Then make it on a 5+ they "ignore death", but the point i was trying to make, is that players with the current rules, just makes the rule pointless and get around the rule, we need that rule to be effective no matter what.

Edit: Hard to say what i mean, eglish is hard

I've played against necrons, and the RP rule is not good. Either you kill a whole unit and the rule is useless. Or you kill all but a couple of models, and two three turns later the lone dude is back to a full unit, which is too OP. RP in my eyes should be a one time thing like the 3rd-5th ed codex. This makes it scary to see how many comes back, but still makes killing some of the necrons usefull, as the ones that failed stay dead. They could make the rule so that RP still happens on wiped out units. Leave a marker on the last model and place the ones that comes back from that point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All or nothing like now makes the games one sided.

I would've liked to see RP as a really unique resource mechanic.

Something like you get an RP point for every model with RP in your list. At the start of your turn, a unit may recover missing models by spending 3 RP points per wound of the model. If you wish to recover a unit that has been completely destroyed, you pay double for the first model to return, and they must show up near a cryptek or a rez orb.

With something like this in play, you could build a TAC list with various elements, and then when you discover that your specific matchup requires a certain unit, say heavy destroyers against all knights or something, you can forego using RP on warriors and just blow all the RP points on keeping the destroyers online.

For counterplay, the opponent would still want to wipe units so that they are restricted to showing up near the characters instead of somewhere important, and also the tax for respawning a unit from nothing would drain their RP faster. Alternatively if they could ice all the respawn-point characters, then they could wipe units and not have them come back.

I think changing RP to something like that that gives some tactical decisions to the cron player, as well as encouraging and rewarding a versatile list, would be a nice mechanic.

Sounds like too much book keeping

What about this: Whenever a RP model killed, it should be knocked over or replaced with a marker on the spot where it dies. In the RP-phase a die is rolled for every marker/knocked over model: On a 6 the model is raised. On a 5 the model is raised
if within 12" of a Lord/Overlord. On a 1 the model/marker is permanently removed from play. When a model is raised it is added to any unit of its own type within 2" of itself. If it cannot do so, it forms it's own unit. A ressurection Orb can be used to trigger rolls for all markers within 12".

I can see them spreading RP buffs around the army. Base models get a 4+ or 5+, and then Crypteks add +1, and Lords and Canoptek units all have their own various buffs (designed to counter obvious weaknesses).. That would be very much in line with the look and feel of some of the other codexes. Beyond that, the rule itself just need to be not useless.

Focused fire isn't the biggest issue there IMO, that''s been the workaround from Crons since they came out and if the Crons were appropriately tough and/or pointed it would be fine. My bigger problem is the impact of morale, which is just silly. I still think rolling RP before morale would fix that but who knows what they'll do. I'm pretty confident they'll more or less fix it with the codex release,

I say change the ghost ark a bit.

Instead of +1 RP roll, have it just auto-rez 5 warriors from any warrior squad within 3" at the end of its movement phase. This can even be from squads totally wiped out (you would leave a marker where the last warrior died to check for distance).

As for crons not having anti-tank I cant agree. Triarch stalker + doomsday/heavy destroyers still wrecks most any vehicles. And tesla cannons threaten transports well enough.

I like the way RP worked in 5th/6th edition. You waited until the end of the phase and had one shot at reanimating if failed you lost the model. Nothing OP and it feels like Necrons should feel.

v0iddrgn wrote:
I like the way RP worked in 5th/6th edition. You waited until the end of the phase and had one shot at reanimating if failed you lost the model. Nothing OP and it feels like Necrons should feel.

Idk, the continuous chances feels like it has potential. Its just really easy to wipe squads, thus canceling the rule out.
Giving them FNP is a terrible idea. They did that in 7th, and it was crap. Turned RP into yet another form of FNP on steroids instead of being a unique army rule.
Again, I really think the solution is to take cues from 3rd ed and give spyders the ability to effectively bring back wiped squads. Or even allow monoliths to do that.

You can want it to be all or nothing, thats not fun at all for either player. Either you get it and the other player is mad, or you fail and you're mad.

Also you dont want it like it is now, encouraging killing the full squad in 1 go.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
I like the way RP worked in 5th/6th edition. You waited until the end of the phase and had one shot at reanimating if failed you lost the model. Nothing OP and it feels like Necrons should feel.

Idk, the continuous chances feels like it has potential. Its just really easy to wipe squads, thus canceling the rule out.
Giving them FNP is a terrible idea. They did that in 7th, and it was crap. Turned RP into yet another form of FNP on steroids instead of being a unique army rule.

It was also the only thing helping keep the army afloat once the rest of the 7th edition Codices were released.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
I like the way RP worked in 5th/6th edition. You waited until the end of the phase and had one shot at reanimating if failed you lost the model. Nothing OP and it feels like Necrons should feel.

Idk, the continuous chances feels like it has potential. Its just really easy to wipe squads, thus canceling the rule out.
Giving them FNP is a terrible idea. They did that in 7th, and it was crap. Turned RP into yet another form of FNP on steroids instead of being a unique army rule.

It was also the only thing helping keep the army afloat once the rest of the 7th edition Codices were released.

Yeah, so? The entire army was badly designed, like the whole of 7th. "Oh wow, you can make one good cookie cutter build, and no one likes it! Amazing!"
It was just so bland and boring to play. The 8th edition version has potential, but it needs some more tweaking.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Heavy destroyers alone will not bring Necrons on par with other armies when it comes to destroying tanks or monsters.

Necrons have plenty of anti high toughness weapons. Stalker, doomsday ark, lychguard in cc, canoptek tomb sentinel, tesseract ark, sentry pylon, doom scythe.

 p5freak wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Heavy destroyers alone will not bring Necrons on par with other armies when it comes to destroying tanks or monsters.

Necrons have plenty of anti high toughness weapons. Stalker, doomsday ark, lychguard in cc, canoptek tomb sentinel, tesseract ark, sentry pylon, doom scythe.

Three of those are fw though. And the rest are pretty expensive or few in number.
Compare this to the other armies, which can field a relatively greater number of heavy weapons.
Like, marines and guard can take heavy weapons in their infantry squads, their vehicles can have multiple anti-tank weapons, etc
Overall, it feels like the other armies have more weapons that deal more or just as much damage as ours. We don't really have anything that stands out, except for the bonus AP. Which is nice against single wound targets, but irrelevant against multi-wound targets.
I don't mind not having many weapons, but at least let these weapons hit like a truck.

Like the heavy destroyers those units need a points drop.

Since the Doom Scythe was brought up, it also needs a "Strafing Run" style rule. BS4 with the big gun is awful as an anti-tank weapon.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Since the Doom Scythe was brought up, it also needs a "Strafing Run" style rule. BS4 with the big gun is awful as an anti-tank weapon.

Or just make it an assault weapon instead of heavy.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
I like the way RP worked in 5th/6th edition. You waited until the end of the phase and had one shot at reanimating if failed you lost the model. Nothing OP and it feels like Necrons should feel.

Idk, the continuous chances feels like it has potential. Its just really easy to wipe squads, thus canceling the rule out.
Giving them FNP is a terrible idea. They did that in 7th, and it was crap. Turned RP into yet another form of FNP on steroids instead of being a unique army rule.

It was also the only thing helping keep the army afloat once the rest of the 7th edition Codices were released.

Yeah, so? The entire army was badly designed, like the whole of 7th. "Oh wow, you can make one good cookie cutter build, and no one likes it! Amazing!"
It was just so bland and boring to play. The 8th edition version has potential, but it needs some more tweaking.

The internal balance was surprisingly okay in that codex. Some things needed tweaking like Barges but it really didn't become a bland and boring codex until the next releases happened.

Heavy destroyers and destroyers are okay but cost too much :( They can be killed too easy. Points drop might help.

I personally like QS. It forces opponents to bring d3 nto d6 damage and that's great.

RP just does not work.The only unit when it works is warriors but 20xwarriors have morale issue - opponent kills 10-12 of them, then another 4-5 flee and MAYBE 3-4 warriors will come back next turn.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
I like the way RP worked in 5th/6th edition. You waited until the end of the phase and had one shot at reanimating if failed you lost the model. Nothing OP and it feels like Necrons should feel.

Idk, the continuous chances feels like it has potential. Its just really easy to wipe squads, thus canceling the rule out.
Giving them FNP is a terrible idea. They did that in 7th, and it was crap. Turned RP into yet another form of FNP on steroids instead of being a unique army rule.
Again, I really think the solution is to take cues from 3rd ed and give spyders the ability to effectively bring back wiped squads. Or even allow monoliths to do that.

As it is now, RP works only at the beginning of your turn. The 5th edition version worked at the end each PHASE which brings the viability up since you can get back up before you get assaulted.

v0iddrgn wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
I like the way RP worked in 5th/6th edition. You waited until the end of the phase and had one shot at reanimating if failed you lost the model. Nothing OP and it feels like Necrons should feel.

Idk, the continuous chances feels like it has potential. Its just really easy to wipe squads, thus canceling the rule out.
Giving them FNP is a terrible idea. They did that in 7th, and it was crap. Turned RP into yet another form of FNP on steroids instead of being a unique army rule.
Again, I really think the solution is to take cues from 3rd ed and give spyders the ability to effectively bring back wiped squads. Or even allow monoliths to do that.

As it is now, RP works only at the beginning of your turn. The 5th edition version worked at the end each PHASE which brings the viability up since you can get back up before you get assaulted.

That's true, the 5th ed version did have the stronger timing. Maybe the two can be combined?

I'd love to see it go back to per phase, or even after shooting and fight, but before morale. If it went to per phase it might have to be base 5+, but I'd be ok with that. Or after morale but also including casualties from morale.(yeah, right, I know).

 Fenris-77 wrote:
I'd love to see it go back to per phase, or even after shooting and fight, but before morale. If it went to per phase it might have to be base 5+, but I'd be ok with that. Or after morale but also including casualties from morale.(yeah, right, I know).

I thought it wad already a 5+ base though.