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Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
I still think that i'd rather run Ahriman then Magnus. And probably not as a warlord (as both of their fixed warlord traits really don't go that well with them)
Being a character with less than 10 wounds is just so much better than standing in the open for a turn while getting shot to bits...
thank you so much for the information so far!! If you don't mind, can you confirm what exactly the special powers (What kind of buffs and perhaps anything else?) the mutalith might do? Also, what does its cost look like?
thank you so much for the information so far!! If you don't mind, can you confirm what exactly the special powers (What kind of buffs and perhaps anything else?) the mutalith might do? Also, what does its cost look like?
Thanks!
He already said that i'ts around 150 pts . but nothing on its aura buff so far
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I think we kind of know the direction 8th has taken.
If someone has inside info on the codex why are they holding back!? =( Would like to know points costs for warpflamers/rubrics... Though if no point change but sorcerers don't cost extra then that might be good enough.
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
What I think you'll find is that people have been abusing Magnus/Morty/Roboute in smaller scale games, perhaps <2kish in size and they really don't belong in games that small. What's the best way to mitigate that? It's to strike the right balance between survivability, dps and target choice. In games of 2k, it's unlikely your opponent is going to have much more a juicy target than a primarch, meaning they go down in one or two turns from concentrated fire because they're usually the only real obvious threat and a quarter of your points so you'd have to pull something wonderful out of the bag to convince your opponent otherwise. A larger game though? When you'll have a much more balanced force? With more target choice and maybe even another LOW or a mosh pit with Abaddon or Marneus at the core? More support to make the primarch survivable (daemon units with changeling) Suddenly that lone Primarch may not be the biggest thing to look for.
It seems to me that this is much more a case of GW still listening and actually trying to discourage people from having all-your-eggs units in smaller games, which fits in the meta too. These guys are really only meant to be at the head of great hosts in a general sense, so having them show up at the fore of a poxy warband is a bit ott.
OR maybe it's just fudged rules that they'll hopefully address in chapter approved.
As someone who uses the exact same ability for Tzeentch Daemon Wizards in Age of Sigmar, granting re-roll 1s on psychic tests in 40K is incredible, especially once you factor in any casting bonuses you might have. It's actually even better in 40K because there is no Perils mechanic in Age of Sigmar, whereas there obviously is in 40K.
As much as removing the re-roll 1s for invulnerable saves hurts Magnus a lot competitively with how he's traditionally used in competitive lists, this new aura makes him way better at supporting actual Thousand Sons armies which is preferable to me. I dislike him acting like a ballistic missile when he should be anchoring a Thousand Sons force, blasting out his powers then supporting his warriors up close. Less competitive? Probably. More fitting to the lore? Definitely.
Besides, technically he can still get that 6+ Feel No Pain and -1 to-hit he used to have, just in different ways. The Changeling gives Tzeentch Daemons the 6++, and a Thousand Sons psyker can cast Glamour on Magnus as long as you get first turn or he survives the enemy first turn. It'd mean he wouldn't be barrelling straight into the enemy lines but it's still some measure of durability, especially as Weaver of Fates is still around. The increased range of psychic powers for Thousand Sons means Magnus sitting back a bit at least for a few turns and giving those auras to your little guys while absorbing firepower might not be a terrible idea, especially now that we know there's a healing power too. Those sniping powers are going to be brutal on Magnus and/or Ahriman.
Side-note, re-roll 1s to-hit aura for Ahriman? Yes please and thank you, it'll be a damned god-send for us. Is that replacing our re-roll 1s for invulnerable saves aura on Exalteds, or is it an additional aura on Ahriman? I'm sure I've probably missed where this was clarified if it has been yet, if not, never mind.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/01/23 11:27:47
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
What I think you'll find is that people have been abusing Magnus/Morty/Roboute in smaller scale games, perhaps <2kish in size and they really don't belong in games that small. What's the best way to mitigate that? It's to strike the right balance between survivability, dps and target choice. In games of 2k, it's unlikely your opponent is going to have much more a juicy target than a primarch, meaning they go down in one or two turns from concentrated fire because they're usually the only real obvious threat and a quarter of your points so you'd have to pull something wonderful out of the bag to convince your opponent otherwise. A larger game though? When you'll have a much more balanced force? With more target choice and maybe even another LOW or a mosh pit with Abaddon or Marneus at the core? More support to make the primarch survivable (daemon units with changeling) Suddenly that lone Primarch may not be the biggest thing to look for.
It seems to me that this is much more a case of GW still listening and actually trying to discourage people from having all-your-eggs units in smaller games, which fits in the meta too. These guys are really only meant to be at the head of great hosts in a general sense, so having them show up at the fore of a poxy warband is a bit ott.
OR maybe it's just fudged rules that they'll hopefully address in chapter approved.
Honestly, lately I was more and more sticking to the idea of only having chaff as a viable target of enemy shooting in the beginning of the game. Got some dark angels and blood angels to support my guard: guard blob up around an inquisitor to give them Ld10 (greyfax, but probably will be replaced with the custodes guy), and the rest of the army is and librarian dreadnought, death company captain, Sammael and two talonmaster landspeeders sitting behind guard shooting stuff and being untargettable (characters) as well as deep striking blood angels/dark angel units.
Works really well, as it completely neutralises any alpha strike that the opponent has, and in the local meta there are a lot of alphastrike armies...
I'm really thinking of restructuring my thousand sons list to work in the same way.
Virules wrote: Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I see people found new strawman to place all the blame on
Surely it's the fault of a single playtester. It can't be fault of Phil Kelly, an incompetent rules writer who made his pet Eldar borderline OP to utterly broken for what, 4-5 editions in a row now? It can't be Cruddace, fan of IG, father of infamous leaf-blower in 5th, who was involved with IG in 8th, who buffed them. No, whole GW strategy, rules, and design directions are dictated by a single playtester. Despite us hearing multiple voices before there would be a lot less problems with 8th as playtesters pointed them out but Kelly/Cruddace ignored 95% of their findings. No, it must be Reece, because he wrote article in WC, thus he is the fiend behind the throne!
Semper wrote: What I think you'll find is that people have been abusing Magnus/Morty/Roboute in smaller scale games, perhaps <2kish in size and they really don't belong in games that small. What's the best way to mitigate that? It's to strike the right balance between survivability, dps and target choice. In games of 2k, it's unlikely your opponent is going to have much more a juicy target than a primarch, meaning they go down in one or two turns from concentrated fire because they're usually the only real obvious threat and a quarter of your points so you'd have to pull something wonderful out of the bag to convince your opponent otherwise. A larger game though? When you'll have a much more balanced force? With more target choice and maybe even another LOW or a mosh pit with Abaddon or Marneus at the core? More support to make the primarch survivable (daemon units with changeling) Suddenly that lone Primarch may not be the biggest thing to look for.
Naah, didn't you get the memo? It's not GW trying to make the game more balanced. It's not GW trying to make armies more fluffy/discourage soups and superfriending. It's not GW trying to correct worst abuses even if it would theoretically cost them some sales in an effort to make a better game. It's a single playtester hating big blue models
Caederes wrote: As someone who uses the exact same ability for Tzeentch Daemon Wizards in Age of Sigmar, granting re-roll 1s on psychic tests in 40K is incredible, especially once you factor in any casting bonuses you might have. It's actually even better in 40K because there is no Perils mechanic in Age of Sigmar, whereas there obviously is in 40K.
Yeah, Magnus looks even stronger/fluffier now, for the same points, unlike RG who was nerfed. He can deal more damage, could potentially be tankier, though might require more finesse and no longer be autoplay model he is now - but I guess him not being able to tank zillion hits effortlessly for no reason makes him worthless somehow. To people who, in the same breath, complain about other armies being too OP. The irony...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 11:44:51
Virules wrote: Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I see people found new strawman to place all the blame on
Surely it's the fault of a single playtester. It can't be fault of Phil Kelly, an incompetent rules writer who made his pet Eldar borderline OP to utterly broken for what, 4-5 editions in a row now? It can't be Cruddace, fan of IG, father of infamous leaf-blower in 5th, who was involved with IG in 8th, who buffed them. No, whole GW strategy, rules, and design directions are dictated by a single playtester. Despite us hearing multiple voices before there would be a lot less problems with 8th as playtesters pointed them out but Kelly/Cruddace ignored 95% of their findings. No, it must be Reece, because he wrote article in WC, thus he is the fiend behind the throne!
Semper wrote: What I think you'll find is that people have been abusing Magnus/Morty/Roboute in smaller scale games, perhaps <2kish in size and they really don't belong in games that small. What's the best way to mitigate that? It's to strike the right balance between survivability, dps and target choice. In games of 2k, it's unlikely your opponent is going to have much more a juicy target than a primarch, meaning they go down in one or two turns from concentrated fire because they're usually the only real obvious threat and a quarter of your points so you'd have to pull something wonderful out of the bag to convince your opponent otherwise. A larger game though? When you'll have a much more balanced force? With more target choice and maybe even another LOW or a mosh pit with Abaddon or Marneus at the core? More support to make the primarch survivable (daemon units with changeling) Suddenly that lone Primarch may not be the biggest thing to look for.
Naah, didn't you get the memo? It's not GW trying to make the game more balanced. It's not GW trying to make armies more fluffy/discourage soups and superfriending. It's not GW trying to correct worst abuses even if it would theoretically cost them some sales in an effort to make a better game. It's a single playtester hating big blue models
Caederes wrote: As someone who uses the exact same ability for Tzeentch Daemon Wizards in Age of Sigmar, granting re-roll 1s on psychic tests in 40K is incredible, especially once you factor in any casting bonuses you might have. It's actually even better in 40K because there is no Perils mechanic in Age of Sigmar, whereas there obviously is in 40K.
Yeah, Magnus looks even stronger/fluffier now, for the same points, unlike RG who was nerfed. He can deal more damage, could potentially be tankier, though might require more finesse and no longer be autoplay model he is now - but I guess him not being able to tank zillion hits effortlessly for no reason makes him worthless somehow. To people who, in the same breath, complain about other armies being too OP. The irony...
lol, Magnus is an autoplay model now? I don't think he is that great even if the deep strike stratagem wasn't FAQd. There was less and less primarchs on the table at tournaments for the past several months, as they are just a liability a lot of the time.
These changes to Magnus rendered him Apocalypse only for me, same as the lords of change and the big birdy, they are just a quarter of the army that you are giving away to the alpha strike. No thanks, I'd rather the opponent shot chaff for a turn before i beta strike, then have all the fire concentrated on one centrepiece model.
Edit: oh, and he is apparently getting 30 point increase too. So yeah, more finesse = leaving on the shelf in this case.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 11:54:44
hhhdan wrote: lol, Magnus is an autoplay model now? I don't think he is that great even if the deep strike stratagem wasn't FAQd. There was less and less primarchs on the table at tournaments for the past several months, as they are just a liability a lot of the time.
These changes to Magnus rendered him Apocalypse only for me, same as the lords of change and the big birdy, they are just a quarter of the army that you are giving away to the alpha strike. No thanks, I'd rather the opponent shot chaff for a turn before i beta strike, then have all the fire concentrated on one centrepiece model.
If he 'wasn't that great' he wouldn't be found together with Morty in vast majority of Chaos comp armies, especially after Malefic nerf. Maybe that changed after CD book dropped, I didn't pay attention recently, but I'd hardly call something spammed in major tournaments 'bad'. And yes, he was autoplay, with that absurd save you could plop him anywhere you wanted utterly ignoring positioning, LOS, enemy units, etc etc boring details, as only the hardest of the hard armies had any chance to do anything but tickle him even with whole army focused solely on Magnus.
As for alpha strike, what's bubblewrap/positioning? This is exactly what I meant by finesse/autoplay, I find it funny one of the best protected (still) models in game and one of the deadliest is now somehow suddenly worthless now that you actually need to buff him slightly to his old, absurd levels of effortlessly taking everything with his bare chest...
hhhdan wrote: lol, Magnus is an autoplay model now? I don't think he is that great even if the deep strike stratagem wasn't FAQd. There was less and less primarchs on the table at tournaments for the past several months, as they are just a liability a lot of the time.
These changes to Magnus rendered him Apocalypse only for me, same as the lords of change and the big birdy, they are just a quarter of the army that you are giving away to the alpha strike. No thanks, I'd rather the opponent shot chaff for a turn before i beta strike, then have all the fire concentrated on one centrepiece model.
If he 'wasn't that great' he wouldn't be found together with Morty in vast majority of Chaos comp armies, especially after Malefic nerf. Maybe that changed after CD book dropped, I didn't pay attention recently, but I'd hardly call something spammed in major tournaments 'bad'. And yes, he was autoplay, with that absurd save you could plop him anywhere you wanted utterly ignoring positioning, LOS, enemy units, etc etc boring details, as only the hardest of the hard armies had any chance to do anything but tickle him even with whole army focused solely on Magnus.
As for alpha strike, what's bubblewrap/positioning? This is exactly what I meant by finesse/autoplay, I find it funny one of the best protected (still) models in game and one of the deadliest is now somehow suddenly worthless now that you actually need to buff him slightly to his old, absurd levels of effortlessly taking everything with his bare chest...
As I said, maybe in September or October he was an Autopick with the spam of bash bro lists, but recently it's either just Morty or no primarchs that is top tier. Magnus just isn't pulling the weight and good alpha strike lists can kill one or even both of them turn one. And the one that is killed first is Magnus, as he has warptime. So having a sorcerer and Morty is more reliable.
I wasn't talking about things that deep strike close and fire meltas or something. I don't think that bubblewrap or positioning will help you against a spam of leman russ/artillery/dark reapers/etc that delete him turn 1 every single time if they go first. The finesse is out the window vs alpha strike gunlines. He is neither one of the best protected nor the deadliest. You can make other units as tough or tougher than him (2++ ogryns/barrier+nightshield baneblade/buffed up shining spears/even warp surge pink horrors+split/etc.) and other units are much more reliable at doing the smashing (bloodletter bomb being a prime example of the really strong unit that is incredibly realiable and does ridiculous amount of damage for the points + can deep strike, so untargettable barring the interceptor stratagems).
So yes, i will take Ahriman and be happy with my untargettable psychic buffing machine and take a bloodletter bomb or tzaangor bomb to be the in your face threat to the enemy, all while both being untargettable to the alpha strike (deep strike or character) all for less points than Magnus is now, even without the 30 pts increase that he got in the codex.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grouchoben wrote: The LoC is more like a 1/6 of your army, and is damn tanky when equipped with robes and the incorporeal WT...
I feel like daemonspark is a must take warlord trait, and taking -1 damage WT would prevent that... Also, yeah he is tanky with a 3++, but he still does not really pull the weight, when you can take almost 4 exalted flamers for the points or almost 2 princes
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 12:48:51
I see people found new strawman to place all the blame on
Surely it's the fault of a single playtester. It can't be fault of Phil Kelly, an incompetent rules writer who made his pet Eldar borderline OP to utterly broken for what, 4-5 editions in a row now? It can't be Cruddace, fan of IG, father of infamous leaf-blower in 5th, who was involved with IG in 8th, who buffed them. No, whole GW strategy, rules, and design directions are dictated by a single playtester. Despite us hearing multiple voices before there would be a lot less problems with 8th as playtesters pointed them out but Kelly/Cruddace ignored 95% of their findings. No, it must be Reece, because he wrote article in WC, thus he is the fiend behind the throne! .
Maybe you can avoid your own strawman, Kelly hasn't been in rules writing for the last couple of years from what I can tell and has been far more involved with fluff instead. And since James Hewitt's AMA on reddit we pretty much already know that it was Alan Merritt who was responsible for the 7th ed Eldar codex being broken as F... more than anyone who was actually involved with writing it.
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I think we kind of know the direction 8th has taken.
yeah it sucks when HQs, LoWs, and the bad guys get 3++ but imperials can get them all the time.
hhhdan wrote: There was less and less primarchs on the table at tournaments for the past several months, as they are just a liability a lot of the time.
hhhdan wrote: There was less and less primarchs on the table at tournaments for the past several months, as they are just a liability a lot of the time.
So for the entirety of this edition?
several months < 2/3 of a year.
I'd say that the peak of primarch popularity was around the death guard release: first tournaments post the codex release. After that the popularity was going down all the time.
Not gonna lie I hear a lot of whining about how Magnus isn’t worth taking now etc etc. if tournament players won’t adapt to the fact that GW is going to fix super efficient units and make them either less efficient in game terms or point terms then they are in for a rough couple of years.
You think obliterators and dark reapers aren’t going to get a change next CA?
Yes They took away Magnus reroll 1s ability on saves. Yes he probably would die turn 1 to an alpha strike in a 2k army dedicated to alpha striking. GW has 2 options, debuff him to the point he doesn’t feel like. Aprimarch anymore or buff him to where he does but have his points be so much that he only gets played in apoc size games (where I feel he should be with most super heavies etc)
demontalons wrote: Not gonna lie I hear a lot of whining about how Magnus isn’t worth taking now etc etc. if tournament players won’t adapt to the fact that GW is going to fix super efficient units and make them either less efficient in game terms or point terms then they are in for a rough couple of years.
You think obliterators and dark reapers aren’t going to get a change next CA?
Yes They took away Magnus reroll 1s ability on saves. Yes he probably would die turn 1 to an alpha strike in a 2k army dedicated to alpha striking. GW has 2 options, debuff him to the point he doesn’t feel like. Aprimarch anymore or buff him to where he does but have his points be so much that he only gets played in apoc size games (where I feel he should be with most super heavies etc)
Not sure if anyone was whining here, I was simply pointing out that Primarchs aren't very competitive anymore and there are (much) better options to people who were saying that they were totally OP and autopick and now they will be balanced.
change is part of the game (And honestly between the codex:tzaangor whining and 'oh no magnus is nerfed', it seems that a lot of people forgot that tzeentch is the god of CHANGE )
Hopefully dark reapers, obliterators and punisher russes will be nerfed soon too.
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I think we kind of know the direction 8th has taken.
Oh so we have found our new bogeyman? I'm glad, Matt Ward was a little old at this point.
Be honest guys, Magnus, Mortarion and Guilliman are some of the most OP models in the game. They aren't as busted as Dark Reapers because you can only have 1 of each in your army. But they are keeping down their own armies. You can buff DG, TS and Space Marines when they have those powerhouses in the form of their primarchs, without making the whole army completely busted. Specially Guilliman with his inmense buffing potential.
People has been so reliant in Primarchs that they panic to see them nerfed. And I can understand that, in some way Dark Angels are in the same boat with Azrael. But even Azrael is OP, he should cost 25-30 points more for what he does. And that would open the possibility of running other character as your warlord. Right now, is Azrael or Sammael if you are running Ravenwing.
And I find funny how people complained to no end about LOW being mandatory, how they don't belong in normal games, and now that they are making LOW harder to use in 2k point games and not an auto include people complain again (Yeah yeah different people have different opinions, I'm just talking about the general trend. And I say complain, not whining, I'm not insulting anyone!)
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/01/23 15:29:57
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I think we kind of know the direction 8th has taken.
Oh so we have found our new bogeyman? I'm glad, Matt Ward was a little old at this point.
Be honest guys, Magnus, Mortarion and Guilliman are some of the most OP models in the game. They aren't as busted as Dark Reapers because you can only have 1 of each in your army. But they are keeping down their own armies. You can buff DG, TS and Space Marines when they have those powerhouses in the form of their primarchs, without making the whole army completely busted. Specially Guilliman with his inmense buffing potential.
People has been so reliant in Primarchs that they panic to see them nerfed. And I can understand that, in some way Dark Angels are in the same boat with Azrael. But even Azrael is OP, he should cost 25-30 points more for what he does. And that would open the possibility of running other character as your warlord. Right now, is Azrael or Sammael if you are running Ravenwing.
And I find funny how people complained to no end about LOW being mandatory, how they don't belong in normal games, and now that they are making LOW harder to use in 2k point games and not an auto include people complain again (Yeah yeah different people have different opinions, I'm just talking about the general trend. And I say complain, not whining, I'm not insulting anyone!)
This is simply not true. Neither Magnus nor Guilliman lists are top tier at the moment. Mortarion can be, but there are better builds still. They are a crutch unit for midtables max... Azrael is not great anymore, as he only buffs infantry. I switched to Sammael + 2 Talonmasters (and might get more of them). they are incredibly strong at the moment, not sure if top tier, but close to it. Plasma inceptors are another really strong unit for dark angels, just because of the deep strike + plasma stratagem they are better than black knights.
Edit: Marines have other strong builds that can be better than Guilliman. E.g. Lias Issodon beta strike list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 15:49:35
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
. but nothing on its aura buff so far
- 10,000 pts CSM 
~4100
~1660
