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SilverAlien wrote: Yeah, I honestly never felt Morty was that essential to my list, was never sure if i wasn't using him correctly or if he was just over-hyped.
The poxwalker factory is a stronger list for death guard by far in my opinion. typhus + 150 cultists or plaguebearers + 60 poxwalkers and then buff one of the squads with cloud of flies and dead walk again. It is ridiculous to play against, especially because that is only a 1/3 of the list...
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I think we kind of know the direction 8th has taken.
Oh so we have found our new bogeyman? I'm glad, Matt Ward was a little old at this point.
Be honest guys, Magnus, Mortarion and Guilliman are some of the most OP models in the game. They aren't as busted as Dark Reapers because you can only have 1 of each in your army. But they are keeping down their own armies. You can buff DG, TS and Space Marines when they have those powerhouses in the form of their primarchs, without making the whole army completely busted. Specially Guilliman with his inmense buffing potential.
People has been so reliant in Primarchs that they panic to see them nerfed. And I can understand that, in some way Dark Angels are in the same boat with Azrael. But even Azrael is OP, he should cost 25-30 points more for what he does. And that would open the possibility of running other character as your warlord. Right now, is Azrael or Sammael if you are running Ravenwing.
And I find funny how people complained to no end about LOW being mandatory, how they don't belong in normal games, and now that they are making LOW harder to use in 2k point games and not an auto include people complain again (Yeah yeah different people have different opinions, I'm just talking about the general trend. And I say complain, not whining, I'm not insulting anyone!)
This is simply not true. Neither Magnus nor Guilliman lists are top tier at the moment. Mortarion can be, but there are better builds still. They are a crutch unit for midtables max... Azrael is not great anymore, as he only buffs infantry. I switched to Sammael + 2 Talonmasters (and might get more of them). they are incredibly strong at the moment, not sure if top tier, but close to it. Plasma inceptors are another really strong unit for dark angels, just because of the deep strike + plasma stratagem they are better than black knights.
Edit: Marines have other strong builds that can be better than Guilliman. E.g. Lias Issodon beta strike list.
You have it backwards. Guillimand and Azrael are INSANE. Whats keep them down is that they are a Space Marine LOW and HQ, so they buff Space Marines units (And infantry in the case of Azrael). And that was exactly my point. You can't make powerfull or even balanced Space Marine units keeping Azrael or Guilliman as they are now because they'll become totally busted. When you have a one-trick pony army you need to nerf the piece that makes the army competitive, and buff the rest, of course.
I'm not saying "Guilliman OP, nerf them". I'm saying "Guilliman is OP, nerf him, buff nearly the rest of the codex".
And one list doesn't need to be top tier to be OP and overly strong. Tau wheren't TOP tier in 7th. But they where a very strong Tier 2 army below Ynnari, Eldar and Daemons.
EDIT: Of course all of this is my opinion, I'm not even that great of a player, so take all of this as you want. I don't think in any shape or form that I have the absolute truth.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 15:54:31
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I think we kind of know the direction 8th has taken.
Oh so we have found our new bogeyman? I'm glad, Matt Ward was a little old at this point.
Be honest guys, Magnus, Mortarion and Guilliman are some of the most OP models in the game. They aren't as busted as Dark Reapers because you can only have 1 of each in your army. But they are keeping down their own armies. You can buff DG, TS and Space Marines when they have those powerhouses in the form of their primarchs, without making the whole army completely busted. Specially Guilliman with his inmense buffing potential.
People has been so reliant in Primarchs that they panic to see them nerfed. And I can understand that, in some way Dark Angels are in the same boat with Azrael. But even Azrael is OP, he should cost 25-30 points more for what he does. And that would open the possibility of running other character as your warlord. Right now, is Azrael or Sammael if you are running Ravenwing.
And I find funny how people complained to no end about LOW being mandatory, how they don't belong in normal games, and now that they are making LOW harder to use in 2k point games and not an auto include people complain again (Yeah yeah different people have different opinions, I'm just talking about the general trend. And I say complain, not whining, I'm not insulting anyone!)
This is simply not true. Neither Magnus nor Guilliman lists are top tier at the moment. Mortarion can be, but there are better builds still. They are a crutch unit for midtables max... Azrael is not great anymore, as he only buffs infantry. I switched to Sammael + 2 Talonmasters (and might get more of them). they are incredibly strong at the moment, not sure if top tier, but close to it. Plasma inceptors are another really strong unit for dark angels, just because of the deep strike + plasma stratagem they are better than black knights.
Edit: Marines have other strong builds that can be better than Guilliman. E.g. Lias Issodon beta strike list.
You have it backwards. Guillimand and Azrael are INSANE. Whats keep them down is that they are a Space Marine LOW and HQ, so they buff Space Marines units (And infantry in the case of Azrael). And that was exactly my point. You can't make powerfull or even balanced Space Marine units keeping Azrael or Guilliman as they are now because they'll become totally busted. When you have a one-trick pony army you need to nerf the piece that makes the army competitive, and buff the rest, of course.
I'm not saying "Guilliman OP, nerf them". I'm saying "Guilliman is OP, nerf him, buff nearly the rest of the codex".
And one list doesn't need to be top tier to be OP and overly strong. Tau wheren't TOP tier in 7th. But they where a very strong Tier 2 army below Ynnari, Eldar and Daemons.
EDIT: Of course all of this is my opinion, I'm not even that great of a player, so take all of this as you want. I don't think in any shape or form that I have the absolute truth.
I see your point about Guilliman (still disagree on Azrael, he's good, but not OP, not anymore at least.). At the same time, marnes are very one-dimensional at the moment, so nerfing guilliman and buffing the rest of the codex won't change much. Everyone would just take chapter master+lietenant with pretty much the same builds. That is because the most efficinet units for marines are long range shooting blobbing around buffing characters.
If combat and close range units were buffed, while fire support units stayed the same, Guilliman would still be ok, as he would be required in multiple places at once, so his aura effects would give diminishing returns if a player took half the army as close range and the rest as fire support.
But while i partly agree on Guilliman, on Magnus I don't agree at all, he was maybe good in the beginning of 8th, but he is can't really deal with hordes and needs a first turn and has to get off the warp time to really do something. Now even more so, as he has to get off the weaver of fates and glamour. There is a chance to fail each of these and also there are stratagems that can flat deny a power.
correction: Ynnari, Daemons and marines/space wolves for 7th the era of soulburst and death stars
Maybe i'm looking at this from tournament perspective too much . (but then again when i go to the club for a fun game it's usually narrative games, so there the balance is skewed anyway)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: This a news and Rumor thred guys please keep the off topic stuff out of the thread.
Yeah, sorry, this went off topic too much.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 16:31:51
So we know we have all the standard options for chaos, all daemon engines, all the main line tanks, our new options.
We know almost all of our 3 spell lists, Hereticus, Daemons, and the new list where we just learned about Temporal;
So we have Temporal
Glamour
Doombolt
Firestorm
Weaver,
Meaning we are only missing 1 spell from the list, unless I cant quite recall it and it was already talked about. Either way, its a good list, and gives reason to take many many sorcerers in both HQ and in squads.....
We know the stats for the bow tzaangors for the most part, we know that the sorcerers in squads no longer cost beyond initial cost of squad mates + gear, we know the Mutalith info for the most part, and know the info for the Tzaangor shaman.
We know that we are getting a large number of strategems, only about half a dozen of which have been spoiled.
Tzaangor swing twice
Vets of the Long War
Spawn buff strat
Spawn MAKING strat (lol)
Webway Strategem.
There may have been 1-2 others I cant recall.
We know that Magnus' auras have changed, one being for psychic checks, the other for "to hit" rolls As well as knowing an extra spell. Came up 30 points.
Ahrimans Warlord trait is +1 to invul save leaving him at a standard 3++ invul, as well as Ahriman having a Captain aura, this means that Exalteds WILL have at minimum that "Re roll 1's" aura at minimum Given the character design conventions of 8th
All fairly impressive. Working on formulating some list ideas based upon the info we have now.I may have missed some points, but this is the overview of it.
Thanks for the recap. If we can expect Firestorm (which it hasnt been confirmed thankfully lol... heres hoping its gone!), then we can probably expect Cabalistic Ritual.
Personally I don't get much out of CR. I hope it's something else, or just doesn't require 2 other guys.
I would like to have a proper "Codex: Thousand Sons", not a "Codex: Tzeentch-All-flavours" or "Codex: Servants of Tzeentch". I wanted a Thousand Sons LEGION codex. More units, characters and rules to properly represent them on the game. This is not that. Is just a lazy amalgamation of units, making this a poor and lazy "Tzeentch Soup" that i don't like.
Thats the point where you are wrong. Thousand Sons don't exist anymore. Theres no Chaos Legions anymore. Even the Black Legion and Death Guard, the most organised ones, are in general a bunch of chaos warbands with a ton of freedom and loosely organized between themselves. Chaos Space Marines aren't loyalists. They aren't organized in chapters. The most common chaos force in the galaxy is an amalgamation of all kind of Chaos forces, specially space marines from different origins/legions,etc... The Thousand Sons Codex is there to represent the present state of the Thousand Sons afilliated sorcerers, a bunch of madmans that only care about their personal powers, that work more like a Imperial Inquisitor gathering a bunch of random troops for their service rather than like an organized military faction.
Well, no. I am not "wrong". lol. You can say that and is your opinion, but there are not words like those in the background... Is... your opinion.
There are chaos legions, more or less splintered and more or less organized, but there are STILL space marines legions that pledge their loyalty to the chaos gods... and their primarchs. I think i know where you get that "warband" idea from. Is from the 4th edition chaos sm codex, also known as "destroy personalization" codex, after the excellent 2nd codex of 3rd edition. When GW tried to effectively destroy the chaos legions, and make us swallow that stupid idea of "chaos warbands", making the CSM like cartoon villains, and making some random idiotic warband more important than the original legions... I despise that background, i really dislike it. What is more, there are not direct references to the status of the legions in a detailed way, as far as i know. So it is unclear. So all it's possible.
Besides that, last background material that i know says that the Thousand Sons from Magnus and the Exiles of Ahriman reunited to launch an attack on Fenris. That to me seems like a "legion". They obey and follow their primarch. Magnus for thousand of years, was supposedly accounting warp sheeps or something, until he organized all the Fenris things. After that, the planet of the sorcerers supposedly is back on the real space, next to Prospero, and Magnus is able to go around. So i think is safe to say that the TS will still follow the orders of their primarch, so again, yes they are a "legion" (badly understrenght after Doggy McRussDog was loosed on Prospero, that is also true, but coherent fighting force under command of a primarch - so, legion).
And from a intra-universe point of view, both ideas are actually plausibles. You can have a large portion of the legions that is around their primarchs and do mostly nothing, and some rogue individuals that mount a "warband" and do what you say. That could be a very minor part of the actual ancient marines from the heresy, and still be a legion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 20:14:09
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I think we kind of know the direction 8th has taken.
Wow, what a scummy underhanded attempt to slander a guy in an attempt to find a scape goat. It's a game of toy soldiers, but hey lets take it so seriously that we will accuse a prominent community member of manipulating the game.
He is a play tester, his job is to point out things he disagrees with mate. I don't think you understand the point in getting an outside opinion. They give him rules, he tells them if he thinks they are fun. It's really that simple.
But ignore me, just go ahead and try to smear the guy some more and see how that turns out for you.
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I think we kind of know the direction 8th has taken.
Wow, what a scummy underhanded attempt to slander a guy in an attempt to find a scape goat. It's a game of toy soldiers, but hey lets take it so seriously that we will accuse a prominent community member of manipulating the game.
He is a play tester, his job is to point out things he disagrees with mate. I don't think you understand the point in getting an outside opinion. They give him rules, he tells them if he thinks they are fun. It's really that simple.
But ignore me, just go ahead and try to smear the guy some more and see how that turns out for you.
Are you suggesting that he is pure and incorruptible, like some play testing version of batman?
He has made a direct effect on the rules whether you like it or not, and there is some obvious bias because of it. Whether that bias is conscious or subconscious can be debated, but I don't have an issue whatsoever with calling them out on it. It was already a really really really bad idea to minimally expand the play testing base to the guys who shout the loudest about balance, yet only play in a competitive WAAC meta anyway who happily utilise BS like conga lines and seem to nerf only things they don't like that won't effect their armies or playing style etc
My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog
How we humans love to put the blame in a single name. And years after we realize the worst balance problems where from the guys in the suits and not the ones writting the codexes.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Virules wrote: Assuming the d3 heal works on Magnus, it's good news, but as someone who goes to tournaments with Morty and Magnus and a Nurgle psyker to heal d3 wounds on Morty I can tell you it doesn't help too much to keep the models alive. Often they go down in 1 round of dedicated fire.
This will be especially true for Magnus now that he can't start on the board with -1 to hit and permanently lost reroll invuls of 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is it true that Magnus went up in cost 30 points?
So they make Magnus decidedly far weaker then jack up his points?
Are they just finished selling Magnus. Like the sales guy said "Ok we've made enough money off of him go ahead and destroy hi. Rules wise so they'll stop using him."
Reece's view seems to counts for the most among playtesters from what I've heard, and he's been vocal on FLG that he doesn't like large single model units since it's not what he enjoys playing. He was very unhappy when Magnus gained the ability to boost to a 3++. So I am not surprised that Changeling, Brimstones, and Magnus got nerfed, and that it was FAQ's that you couldn't use Codex Daemons stratagems on Morty or Magnus before even seeing how it played out in the meta.
At the same time, the Eldar, Tyranid, and Astra Militarum codexes were outstanding, with very few dud units, relics, stratagems, etc. compared to other codexes (which have to rely on a handful of powerful units to be competitive...such as Morty and Magnus, hah). Also Reece's favorite armies and ones I am sure he was very involved in playtesting.
I think we kind of know the direction 8th has taken.
Wow, what a scummy underhanded attempt to slander a guy in an attempt to find a scape goat. It's a game of toy soldiers, but hey lets take it so seriously that we will accuse a prominent community member of manipulating the game.
He is a play tester, his job is to point out things he disagrees with mate. I don't think you understand the point in getting an outside opinion. They give him rules, he tells them if he thinks they are fun. It's really that simple.
But ignore me, just go ahead and try to smear the guy some more and see how that turns out for you.
First of all, you are dragging this thread off topic after others already tried to reset the discussion.
Second, to be clear, if you had bothered to read what I'd actually written instead of whipping yourself into a melodramatic frenzy, you would have realized that I am not slandering anyone. I also never said Reece (or anyone else) is manipulating the game. It is almost a waste of my time to respond to a post like this because it's full of strawman statements trying to get me to defend statements I never made and a position I don't agree with.
All I said was that both from the way codexes and rules changes have manifested themselves in the current edition, as well as what I've heard, Reece is one of the most influential if not the most influential outside opinion in terms of what gets changed. And therefore I am not surprised to see so many things about the game and the way the meta changes seemingly reflecting the preferences and viewpoints he shares on his public platforms.
That's certainly nothing malicious and I for one am glad that GW is consulting playtesters again, but it also means that the meta and codexes do seem (from the outside at least) to be tinged fairly substantially in the direction of someone (or a handful of people) who has / who have pretty specific viewpoint and pretty specific preferences regarding the game. Which means that to some extent you are a bit gak out of luck if you don't share some of those views or army / playstyle preferences. And I also don't think it's a coincidence that the armies that are the longtime personal favorites of some of the most influential playtesters are the ones who received the most comprehensive sets of improvements in their codexes, since I think that's likely where the bulk of enthusiasm and focus went from people who necessarily have a finite amount of time and energy to devote to what is essentially volunteer work. Edit: Something that I think is especially true and inevitable given the frenetic page at which GW is pushing new codexes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 21:44:03
The Scarabs, Shaman and Rubrics took 3 different Change powers in the batrep which is why I was thinking they could only take Change. If so, that's not so bad considering that we can choose now instead of rolling.
But yes I would like to slingshot a unit of rubrics via the relic and not commit to putting an HQ near them for the Warptime!
Brometheus wrote: The Scarabs, Shaman and Rubrics took 3 different Change powers in the batrep which is why I was thinking they could only take Change. If so, that's not so bad considering that we can choose now instead of rolling.
But yes I would like to slingshot a unit of rubrics via the relic and not commit to putting an HQ near them for the Warptime!
Me, I'd like to deep strike a unit of Rubrics with flamers and then let their sorcerer Warptime them into range to just *fwoosh* a unit off the board.
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
I would like to have a proper "Codex: Thousand Sons", not a "Codex: Tzeentch-All-flavours" or "Codex: Servants of Tzeentch". I wanted a Thousand Sons LEGION codex. More units, characters and rules to properly represent them on the game. This is not that. Is just a lazy amalgamation of units, making this a poor and lazy "Tzeentch Soup" that i don't like.
Thats the point where you are wrong. Thousand Sons don't exist anymore. Theres no Chaos Legions anymore. Even the Black Legion and Death Guard, the most organised ones, are in general a bunch of chaos warbands with a ton of freedom and loosely organized between themselves.
Chaos Space Marines aren't loyalists. They aren't organized in chapters. The most common chaos force in the galaxy is an amalgamation of all kind of Chaos forces, specially space marines from different origins/legions,etc...
The Thousand Sons Codex is there to represent the present state of the Thousand Sons afilliated sorcerers, a bunch of madmans that only care about their personal powers, that work more like a Imperial Inquisitor gathering a bunch of random troops for their service rather than like an organized military faction.
Well, no. I am not "wrong". lol. You can say that and is your opinion, but there are not words like those in the background... Is... your opinion.
There are chaos legions, more or less splintered and more or less organized, but there are STILL space marines legions that pledge their loyalty to the chaos gods... and their primarchs. I think i know where you get that "warband" idea from. Is from the 4th edition chaos sm codex, also known as "destroy personalization" codex, after the excellent 2nd codex of 3rd edition. When GW tried to effectively destroy the chaos legions, and make us swallow that stupid idea of "chaos warbands", making the CSM like cartoon villains, and making some random idiotic warband more important than the original legions... I despise that background, i really dislike it. What is more, there are not direct references to the status of the legions in a detailed way, as far as i know. So it is unclear. So all it's possible.
Besides that, last background material that i know says that the Thousand Sons from Magnus and the Exiles of Ahriman reunited to launch an attack on Fenris. That to me seems like a "legion". They obey and follow their primarch. Magnus for thousand of years, was supposedly accounting warp sheeps or something, until he organized all the Fenris things. After that, the planet of the sorcerers supposedly is back on the real space, next to Prospero, and Magnus is able to go around. So i think is safe to say that the TS will still follow the orders of their primarch, so again, yes they are a "legion" (badly understrenght after Doggy McRussDog was loosed on Prospero, that is also true, but coherent fighting force under command of a primarch - so, legion).
And from a intra-universe point of view, both ideas are actually plausibles. You can have a large portion of the legions that is around their primarchs and do mostly nothing, and some rogue individuals that mount a "warband" and do what you say. That could be a very minor part of the actual ancient marines from the heresy, and still be a legion.
Plus the Word bearers have been directly stated at still being a legion, the Iron Warriors are also a legion, a bit fractured but nothing on the scale of Emperors children and world eaters, infact.
Broken legions:
Night lords: Broken during the heresy
World Eaters: Broken at Skalathrax
Emperors Children: Broken during the legion wars
Fractured legions
Iron Warriors: Competing warsmiths but still organised.
Death Guard: Never stated to be a broken legion, still quite organised
Thousand sons: numbers decimated but still organised
Still legions
Black Legion: still very organised but is prone to fracturing, so this dips in and out of fractured.
Word Bearers: directly stated to still be an organised legion.
Dead Legions
Sons of Horus: some may possibly be kicking around, but they are hunted by the other legions so unlikely.
Unknown
Alpha Legion: we just dont know
Some still use the chapter organisation, some are warbands, others are held together on the charisma and might of the chaos lord, it varies, the main difference is when the command of the legion calls, people listen.
Brometheus wrote: I keep thinking there is new TS info but it's just you guys arguing about dudesmen
I know right... I honestly haven't seen so many similar threads get derailed so many times... Don't the Thousand Sons players want to talk about, oh I don't know, Thousand Sons stuff?
I havent had a chance to sift through the nonsense but I'd be curious to see whatever that last spell is in the Change discipline, the Mutilith abilities, and whatever other fun things any of those Tzaangor units have (that haven't already been mentioned).
Plus the Word bearers have been directly stated at still being a legion, the Iron Warriors are also a legion, a bit fractured but nothing on the scale of Emperors children and world eaters, infact.
Broken legions:
Night lords: Broken during the heresy
World Eaters: Broken at Skalathrax
Emperors Children: Broken during the legion wars
Fractured legions
Iron Warriors: Competing warsmiths but still organised.
Death Guard: Never stated to be a broken legion, still quite organised
Thousand sons: numbers decimated but still organised
Still legions
Black Legion: still very organised but is prone to fracturing, so this dips in and out of fractured.
Word Bearers: directly stated to still be an organised legion.
Dead Legions
Sons of Horus: some may possibly be kicking around, but they are hunted by the other legions so unlikely.
Unknown
Alpha Legion: we just dont know
Some still use the chapter organisation, some are warbands, others are held together on the charisma and might of the chaos lord, it varies, the main difference is when the command of the legion calls, people listen.
Sons of Horus are the Black Legion, Abaddon renamed them after the Heresy. Deathguard retreated to the eye of terror "largely intact" following the heresy as well so I wouldn't call them a fractured legion. Thousand Sons seem to be replacing their losses with tzaangors so they could very well be back to legion numbers as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/24 05:11:15
Brometheus wrote: I keep thinking there is new TS info but it's just you guys arguing about dudesmen
I know right... I honestly haven't seen so many similar threads get derailed so many times... Don't the Thousand Sons players want to talk about, oh I don't know, Thousand Sons stuff?
I havent had a chance to sift through the nonsense but I'd be curious to see whatever that last spell is in the Change discipline, the Mutilith abilities, and whatever other fun things any of those Tzaangor units have (that haven't already been mentioned).
I think everyone wants to hear new stuff about the codex, but unfortunately with the lack of leaks, all we can do is wait and/or speculate on the possible changes. And speculation leads to wishlisting which leads to assumptions that start disagreements, hence the arguments...
I think the biggest thing i want to know is if there are any changes to exalted sorcerers... Followed closely by what new wargear tzaangor unit has if any?
Hikaru, where are you? Ignore the offtopics and keep the information flowing, please. Would you want to share the rules of the Mutalith Vortex Beast? Thank you.
Meh. This just tells me there's not many changes or exciting things they want to advertise in the hopes of building hype. Feels like they are treating it as a second rate dex, or a break between big releases.
the era of soulburst and death stars
. (but then again when i go to the club for a fun game it's usually narrative games, so there the balance is skewed anyway)
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