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But to move the discussion along, what do people see as possibilities for Soup lists? Thousand Sons daemon princes seem very promising. There's also going to be great overlap with daemons, and Mutaliths can buff any Tzeentch unit. Some combination of Daemons, 1ksons HQs and Tzaangores, and tzeentch CSM could get interesting. Exalted Flamers also worth a mention.

The inferno bolts stratagem also interests me. It doesn't seem like there's much in the 1ksons book that it could be used on to great effect, as there just aren't a whole lot of bolter units. Are there any forge world units that can spam a lot of bolters that we could give the thousand sons keyword to?

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
But to move the discussion along, what do people see as possibilities for Soup lists? Thousand Sons daemon princes seem very promising. There's also going to be great overlap with daemons, and Mutaliths can buff any Tzeentch unit. Some combination of Daemons, 1ksons HQs and Tzaangores, and tzeentch CSM could get interesting. Exalted Flamers also worth a mention.

The inferno bolts stratagem also interests me. It doesn't seem like there's much in the 1ksons book that it could be used on to great effect, as there just aren't a whole lot of bolter units. Are there any forge world units that can spam a lot of bolters that we could give the thousand sons keyword to?

Possibly with Chaos Contemptors. Could go PF/TL HB and then inferno it and fire-frenzy. The wording right now is a single one, but if it was all then that would be great with pred with 2 HBs and a combi on top.

Aside from that, expect Sorcs, goats and Mutas in a battalion with a second detachment of stuff with Daemon of Tzeentch to use strats on.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
But to move the discussion along, what do people see as possibilities for Soup lists? Thousand Sons daemon princes seem very promising. There's also going to be great overlap with daemons, and Mutaliths can buff any Tzeentch unit. Some combination of Daemons, 1ksons HQs and Tzaangores, and tzeentch CSM could get interesting. Exalted Flamers also worth a mention.

The inferno bolts stratagem also interests me. It doesn't seem like there's much in the 1ksons book that it could be used on to great effect, as there just aren't a whole lot of bolter units. Are there any forge world units that can spam a lot of bolters that we could give the thousand sons keyword to?

Its just 1 weapon..

Yeah, that's a weird stratagem. Is it confirmed that's all it does?

As far as i can tell, yes. It's good in theory, but in practice you'd only use it on a twin heavy bolter. Otherwise it seems like a waste. 1 CP on one gun doesn't seem worth it unless you have alot of armor you're against. If it was multiple guns then it would open up the option to use it on Dakka Preds but as is, it cost 3 CP, which I doubt you can spare when one is already probably going to the extra relic.

Best I can see is using it one a Contemptor or Land Raider's HB for the extra AP. brings it up to 6shots of 5-3-1. Other than that I can't see it being worth the CP.


Another thought I had is taking a bastion and putting a disk sorc/exalted on top as the WL and having them Coruscating Beam clumped troops from his lofty vantage point.

Yeah, my immediate thought was a Defiler (mostly because I want one anyway for a heavy support choice, I think post-CA they might actually be better than maulers) but a land raider would also work. Given that the "reaper" autocannon is terribad ("reaper" here is an adjective that means "does half the damage" apparently) the souped-up HB is actually the best weapon option.

Land Raider would also be solid. honestly, if you're going the pure rubric route without magnus, you're probably going to want one as the optimal target for Prescience and Glamor, unless you're doing the deep striking 20 rubric shtick. 10x SOTs probably don't need/want glamor as much as you'll be warptiming them into combat.

If you're going to do it at all, you'll do it on a helbrute, I think. Fire Frenzy makes the helbrute's twin heavy bolter the highest value target for the stratagem.

Misread, ya Heavy bolter on a Helbrute or Contemptor would probably be the best bet for it.

So... the upgrade pack for the tzaangors is a little crazy. 5 guns & swords for $12.50? The box of 10 models is only $45, and comes with all the arms included with the fantasy kit (which is $40).

So the 40k weapons go from a $5 extra to a $25 extra.

The upgrade spruces are always nearly free in the combined packs as compared to alone.

So, I understand a lot of the complaints here, but I'm still super excited. But I was trying to think of a list that keeps a balance between actual Thousand Sons and their beast people

I know we don't know points but maybe something like:
Battalion- TS
Daemon Prince
Exalted Sorc on disc
10 Rubricae
10 Rubricae
20 Tzaangors
Mutalith

Vanguard- TS
Exalted Sorc
5 Scarab Occult
Tzaangors Shaman
6 Enlightened with Bow

Depending on what point costs actually come out to be, I could a Knight or maybe a small amount of Daemons.

What do you all think? (And sorry if this doesn't quite belong)

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
The inferno bolts stratagem also interests me. It doesn't seem like there's much in the 1ksons book that it could be used on to great effect, as there just aren't a whole lot of bolter units. Are there any forge world units that can spam a lot of bolters that we could give the thousand sons keyword to?

Can the Chaos Fire Raptor Asault Gunship be used with 1K Sons? I hope so, it is why I got one. ;-)

It has one Heavy10 Twin Avenger Bolt Cannon, and two Heavy12 Quad Heavy Bolt Guns.

Do we know if there will be anything added to the current AoS Tzaangor Enlightened and Tzaangor Shaman kits other than auto pistol/chainsword arms when they get turned into "40k versions" of the same kit?

Edit: Or do GW expect people to buy the AoS-kits and then some laughably expensive autopistol/ccw sprues on top?
Old GW is back boys.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
But to move the discussion along, what do people see as possibilities for Soup lists? Thousand Sons daemon princes seem very promising. There's also going to be great overlap with daemons, and Mutaliths can buff any Tzeentch unit. Some combination of Daemons, 1ksons HQs and Tzaangores, and tzeentch CSM could get interesting. Exalted Flamers also worth a mention.

The inferno bolts stratagem also interests me. It doesn't seem like there's much in the 1ksons book that it could be used on to great effect, as there just aren't a whole lot of bolter units. Are there any forge world units that can spam a lot of bolters that we could give the thousand sons keyword to?

I think skyfires could be very helpful in a tzneetch demon list, some longer range shooting that can realistically target anything, with some demon synergy.

Depending on how the vortex beast is worded it could be useful across a lot of armies.

Do we know if generic tson daemon princes are getting the bonus to invulnerable saves than ones from the daemon codex do? DG daemon princes got upgraded to match so I wasn't sure.

Yes Tson DPs have 2 psychic powers and smite and 4++ inv base as well as access to hereticus change and demon spells. They are auto include

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, my immediate thought was a Defiler (mostly because I want one anyway for a heavy support choice, I think post-CA they might actually be better than maulers) but a land raider would also work. Given that the "reaper" autocannon is terribad ("reaper" here is an adjective that means "does half the damage" apparently) the souped-up HB is actually the best weapon option.

Land Raider would also be solid. honestly, if you're going the pure rubric route without magnus, you're probably going to want one as the optimal target for Prescience and Glamor, unless you're doing the deep striking 20 rubric shtick. 10x SOTs probably don't need/want glamor as much as you'll be warptiming them into combat.

Defiler is definitly the way to go. Daemon Forge + Prescience + Temporal Manipulation (TM), means even if you move you still have a 75% hit ratio, you wound at a 75%. TM combined with natural regen to average 3 wounds healed per turn, even if you take 10 wounds in a single turn you can pop smoke heal and Glamor for -2 to shooting attacks. You can get 2 turns of healing, increaseing your wounds by 6 on average 4 minimum. Armerment is a Battle Cannon that wounds LR on 2s, a HB that is wounding LR on 3s with 6 shots, -2 ap on both.

Cast Diabolical Strength on him, and hes almost able to kill 2 LR in a single turn between shooting and melee.

 CoteazRox wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
The inferno bolts stratagem also interests me. It doesn't seem like there's much in the 1ksons book that it could be used on to great effect, as there just aren't a whole lot of bolter units. Are there any forge world units that can spam a lot of bolters that we could give the thousand sons keyword to?

Can the Chaos Fire Raptor Asault Gunship be used with 1K Sons? I hope so, it is why I got one. ;-)

It has one Heavy10 Twin Avenger Bolt Cannon, and two Heavy12 Quad Heavy Bolt Guns.

the gunship, yes.

But the stratagem can't effect any of these guns.

 MinscS2 wrote:
Do we know if there will be anything added to the current AoS Tzaangor Enlightened and Tzaangor Shaman kits other than auto pistol/chainsword arms when they get turned into "40k versions" of the same kit?

Edit: Or do GW expect people to buy the AoS-kits and then some laughably expensive autopistol/ccw sprues on top?
Old GW is back boys.

I'm not really sure why you'd go for the chainsword option. They also look bad on all Tzaangor.

People claiming rubrics are useless and tzaangors are replacing them are in for a few horrible matches lol. My Catachan army won't even need to flex it's muscles tol dust some garbage tzaangors off the table in a turn. 330 points worth of hellhounds will flat murder them, the flying ones too. Meanwhile rubrics would get their full 3+ saves. Your going to need a healthy mix of units to take on a variety of opponents.

Such strange arguments. Had Tzaangors been objectively worse then rubrics people would have pointed out that they were pointless for the army, and that half the book was dead weight. Instead the already gorgeous line doubles in size and adds actually competitively viable options to boot and somehow people are mad? Unbelievable.

Oh and half the keyboard generals in here are the same type of people that said wraith knights were garbage when they were released. Sort of like how people say space wolves, and blood angels are not top tier worthy armies yet 3 of the top 8 slots at the LVO are in fact those armies.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 CoteazRox wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
The inferno bolts stratagem also interests me. It doesn't seem like there's much in the 1ksons book that it could be used on to great effect, as there just aren't a whole lot of bolter units. Are there any forge world units that can spam a lot of bolters that we could give the thousand sons keyword to?

Can the Chaos Fire Raptor Asault Gunship be used with 1K Sons? I hope so, it is why I got one. ;-)

It has one Heavy10 Twin Avenger Bolt Cannon, and two Heavy12 Quad Heavy Bolt Guns.

the gunship, yes.

But the stratagem can't effect any of these guns.

Thanks!

 Red Corsair wrote:
People claiming rubrics are useless and tzaangors are replacing them are in for a few horrible matches lol. My Catachan army won't even need to flex it's muscles tol dust some garbage tzaangors off the table in a turn. 330 points worth of hellhounds will flat murder them, the flying ones too. Meanwhile rubrics would get their full 3+ saves. Your going to need a healthy mix of units to take on a variety of opponents.

Such strange arguments. Had Tzaangors been objectively worse then rubrics people would have pointed out that they were pointless for the army, and that half the book was dead weight. Instead the already gorgeous line doubles in size and adds actually competitively viable options to boot and somehow people are mad? Unbelievable.

Oh and half the keyboard generals in here are the same type of people that said wraith knights were garbage when they were released. Sort of like how people say space wolves, and blood angels are not top tier worthy armies yet 3 of the top 8 slots at the LVO are in fact those armies.

On the contrary... for the original release the Tzaangor kit was warmly received because most people acknowledged that Thousand Sons needed a throw away meat shield unit and were pleased with Tzaangors even though Cultists would have done just fine. The issue is the Thousand Sons book went from an honest attempt to expand the line to little more than a cash grab in the span of a year. No effort was made to expand the Thousand Sons themselves or make them the star of the book.

Nvs wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
People claiming rubrics are useless and tzaangors are replacing them are in for a few horrible matches lol. My Catachan army won't even need to flex it's muscles tol dust some garbage tzaangors off the table in a turn. 330 points worth of hellhounds will flat murder them, the flying ones too. Meanwhile rubrics would get their full 3+ saves. Your going to need a healthy mix of units to take on a variety of opponents.

Such strange arguments. Had Tzaangors been objectively worse then rubrics people would have pointed out that they were pointless for the army, and that half the book was dead weight. Instead the already gorgeous line doubles in size and adds actually competitively viable options to boot and somehow people are mad? Unbelievable.

Oh and half the keyboard generals in here are the same type of people that said wraith knights were garbage when they were released. Sort of like how people say space wolves, and blood angels are not top tier worthy armies yet 3 of the top 8 slots at the LVO are in fact those armies.

On the contrary... for the original release the Tzaangor kit was warmly received because most people acknowledged that Thousand Sons needed a throw away meat shield unit and were pleased with Tzaangors even though Cultists would have done just fine. The issue is the Thousand Sons book went from an honest attempt to expand the line to little more than a cash grab in the span of a year. No effort was made to expand the Thousand Sons themselves or make them the star of the book.

Tzaangors date back to rogue trader as part of the thousand sons. So your argument is even based on an accurate premise.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Nvs wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
People claiming rubrics are useless and tzaangors are replacing them are in for a few horrible matches lol. My Catachan army won't even need to flex it's muscles tol dust some garbage tzaangors off the table in a turn. 330 points worth of hellhounds will flat murder them, the flying ones too. Meanwhile rubrics would get their full 3+ saves. Your going to need a healthy mix of units to take on a variety of opponents.

Such strange arguments. Had Tzaangors been objectively worse then rubrics people would have pointed out that they were pointless for the army, and that half the book was dead weight. Instead the already gorgeous line doubles in size and adds actually competitively viable options to boot and somehow people are mad? Unbelievable.

Oh and half the keyboard generals in here are the same type of people that said wraith knights were garbage when they were released. Sort of like how people say space wolves, and blood angels are not top tier worthy armies yet 3 of the top 8 slots at the LVO are in fact those armies.

On the contrary... for the original release the Tzaangor kit was warmly received because most people acknowledged that Thousand Sons needed a throw away meat shield unit and were pleased with Tzaangors even though Cultists would have done just fine. The issue is the Thousand Sons book went from an honest attempt to expand the line to little more than a cash grab in the span of a year. No effort was made to expand the Thousand Sons themselves or make them the star of the book.

Tzaangors date back to rogue trader as part of the thousand sons. So your argument is even based on an accurate premise.

And they haven't been mentioned inbetween. And RT is not 40k. It's changed far too much.

I don’t see a problem with tzaangors per se it’s more a case of why is there no stratagem for rubrics like there is for tzaangors. One stratagem and I think most people feel fine. Even if the strat was something like what the enlightened get

2cp for every 6 rolled by a unit of rubrics in the shooting phase that round automatically wounds. Bam simple easy and really boosts the strength of the sons.

demontalons wrote:
I don’t see a problem with tzaangors per se it’s more a case of why is there no stratagem for rubrics like there is for tzaangors. One stratagem and I think most people feel fine. Even if the strat was something like what the enlightened get

2cp for every 6 rolled by a unit of rubrics in the shooting phase that round automatically wounds. Bam simple easy and really boosts the strength of the sons.

Nobody is having issues with the Gors. Even those of us complaining about the dex. It's when people say "they've always been there" as an acceptable excuse for what GW has done that irks me.

Is there any place that has a summary of all the changes including points changes?

See page 19 or 20 for strats/relics/wl traits. Magnus went up 30, SOT sorc went down like 14? No other points changes. Psychic powers are scattered around.

 Virules wrote:
Is there any place that has a summary of all the changes including points changes?

The StrikingScorpion video goes through literally everything in the dex, including the points costs. I'm surprised the video is still up, I thought GW was cracking down on people doing that in their previews.

demontalons wrote:
I don’t see a problem with tzaangors per se it’s more a case of why is there no stratagem for rubrics like there is for tzaangors. One stratagem and I think most people feel fine. Even if the strat was something like what the enlightened get

2cp for every 6 rolled by a unit of rubrics in the shooting phase that round automatically wounds. Bam simple easy and really boosts the strength of the sons.

Or, 1-2 CP to let a unit of Rubrics apply their All is Dust rule to multi-wound weapons until the end of the round. Tank lascannon blasts with your face.

Brian888 wrote:

demontalons wrote:
I don’t see a problem with tzaangors per se it’s more a case of why is there no stratagem for rubrics like there is for tzaangors. One stratagem and I think most people feel fine. Even if the strat was something like what the enlightened get

2cp for every 6 rolled by a unit of rubrics in the shooting phase that round automatically wounds. Bam simple easy and really boosts the strength of the sons.

Or, 1-2 CP to let a unit of Rubrics apply their All is Dust rule to multi-wound weapons until the end of the round. Tank lascannon blasts with your face.

I would have liked that a lot. Make it something you can declare after your opponent has chosen to shot like the Night Lords stratagem so your opponent is stuck using at least some plasma against a rubric squad with a 4++.