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Heey there,

I'd like to know how people interpret this ability:

'Counter Tactics: at the start of your opponent's turn, select an enemy character. All aura abilities are disabled until the start of your opponents next turn.'

So I was thinking, what all counts as an aura ability? This is what the general handbook says:

AURA ABILITIES Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range.
Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect.

Does this mean it is only 'passive' abilities, like a Captain's reroll 1's to hit? or could they mean 'active' abilities as well, like a Guard Commander giving orders?

Any aura to me, so if its a bubble that extends and effect around the character, its an aura, so I would say yes to guard orders being affected.

Doctoralex wrote:
Heey there,

I'd like to know how people interpret this ability:

'Counter Tactics: at the start of your opponent's turn, select an enemy character. All aura abilities are disabled until the start of your opponents next turn.'

So I was thinking, what all counts as an aura ability? This is what the general handbook says:

AURA ABILITIES Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range.
Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect.

Does this mean it is only 'passive' abilities, like a Captain's reroll 1's to hit? or could they mean 'active' abilities as well, like a Guard Commander giving orders?

That's a good question. My gut would say that it's only "passive" ones but I could easily see the argument it's all abilities with a range.

Looking at the guard commander I don't think orders meet the definition of "aura" as they only target one unit.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Looking at the guard commander I don't think orders meet the definition of "aura" as they only target one unit.

That could be a good one yea. It's an aura when it affects multiple targets.

So for instance, while the Tau Ethereal's Invocation of the Elements is an active ability, it is still considered an aura and thus will be stopped by Counter Tactics.

Doctoralex wrote:
That could be a good one yea. It's an aura when it affects multiple targets.

Nothing in the rules for auras suggests that has to be the case. All an aura ability is defined as "abilities that affect certain models within a given range." Both passive and active rules do this.

Orders themselves might not be considered aura effect, but Voice of Command (the ability that grants the effect called orders) is a proximity based ability, so I'd agree it's in a grey area, but for consistency purposes counted as targetable "aura ability"

What about psychic powers, are those abilities? After all, most of them are "proximity based" much like orders are.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
What about psychic powers, are those abilities? After all, most of them are "proximity based" much like orders are.

Those are called "Psychic Powers" specifically.

Battle Primer pg5

Aura Abilities
Some units... have abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

Aura abilities are abilities that certain units have that does certain things to certain models/units in a certain range.
Psyker units/models have the ability to use psychic powers, via given permission to access the appropriate psychic power table. Psychic powers themselves are not abilities that which units/model has innately via datasheet - would be my rationale.

In other words, psychic powers are to psykers as what orders are to Voice of Command.

So then the question goes back to is "being a psyker" an aura ability?

Does my question make sense? If Voice of Command is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target" and a psyker's ability is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target", then surely either both are aura abilities or neither are aura abilities?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So then the question goes back to is "being a psyker" an aura ability?

Does my question make sense? If Voice of Command is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target" and a psyker's ability is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target", then surely either both are aura abilities or neither are aura abilities?

No, being a psyker simply grants you the access to psychic power table and X attempts to deny.

 skchsan wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So then the question goes back to is "being a psyker" an aura ability?

Does my question make sense? If Voice of Command is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target" and a psyker's ability is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target", then surely either both are aura abilities or neither are aura abilities?

No, being a psyker simply grants you the access to psychic power table.

And having voice of command simply grants you access to Orders.

Without the Orders table, the Voice of Command ability is as useful as the Psyker ability without the Psychic Powers table.

Come on lads, we all know auras are passive bubbles. An order is not an aura, it is a direct active one off buff that has to be 'cast' with a range. Not a bubble of passive buff or debuff. You have to really be trying to deliberately misunderstand, not misinterpret, misunderstand auras to say it's anything else.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So then the question goes back to is "being a psyker" an aura ability?

Does my question make sense? If Voice of Command is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target" and a psyker's ability is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target", then surely either both are aura abilities or neither are aura abilities?

No, being a psyker simply grants you the access to psychic power table.

And having voice of command simply grants you access to Orders.

Without the Orders table, the Voice of Command ability is as useful as the Psyker ability without the Psychic Powers table.

For facilitating this discussion, let's define "abilities" and "effect". "Abilities" are those which grant the said "effects." So;
[Ability: Voice of Command] grants [Effect: Orders]
[Ability: Psyker] grants [Effect: Psychic Powers]

What are [Aura Abilities]? "Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect." So, [Aura Abiities] have following characteristics;
1. Are abilities that certain units have.
2. It affects certain models, including self, within a given range.

Voice of Command considers it's range at the [Ability] level, while [Psychic power] considers range at the [Effect] level.
Following your line of logic, then all attacks (shooting & melee) can be considered an aura ability since "its proximity based" effect that removes wounds from a model.

 skchsan wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So then the question goes back to is "being a psyker" an aura ability?

Does my question make sense? If Voice of Command is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target" and a psyker's ability is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target", then surely either both are aura abilities or neither are aura abilities?

No, being a psyker simply grants you the access to psychic power table.

And having voice of command simply grants you access to Orders.

Without the Orders table, the Voice of Command ability is as useful as the Psyker ability without the Psychic Powers table.

For facilitating this discussion, let's define "abilities" and "effect". "Abilities" are those which grant the said "effects." So;
[Ability: Voice of Command] grants [Effect: Orders]
[Ability: Psyker] grants [Effect: Psychic Powers]

What are [Aura Abilities]? "Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect." So, [Aura Abiities] have following characteristics;
1. Are abilities that certain units have.
2. It affects certain models, including self, within a given range.

Voice of Command considers it's range at the [Ability] level, while [Psychic power] considers range at the [Effect] level.
Following your line of logic, then all attacks (shooting & melee) can be considered an aura ability since "its proximity based" effect that removes wounds from a model.

Right, but the effect and the ability aren't divided like that anywhere in the rules. One could say that Guilliman's re-roll aura (literally the basest form of aura) is [Ability: Lord Castellan of the Imperium] grants [Effect: Re-Roll To-Hit and To-Wound Rolls]."

There's no reason to parse abilities into [name] and [what they do].

So yes, that's my point. Either you say Auras are things that work on "any <wahtever> within whatever inches can do whatever>" wording, or you literally start counting shooting and assault as aura abilities.

I'm trying to prove the absurdity that results if you include Voice of Command in the category of "aura abilities".

As previously mentioned, yes, this is in a grey area. The point I'm making is that the RAW has more than one valid interpretations, because other possible 'misinterpretations' has not been explicitly discounted.

Taking 'Aura Abilities' entry in the Battle Primer

"Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect."

The latter sentence starting "Unless..." is irrelevant since we already know the model is always within affect of its own aura unless otherwise stated.

Aura abilities, per RAW:
1. Is/are ability(ies) that a unit/model has.
2. Has an effective range.
3. Grants an effect from source model/unit to recipient model/unit.

Taking 'Tactical Toolbox - Aura Abilities' post dated 08/18/17

"...Some of these abilities affect all friendly models or units within a certain range. We call these ‘aura abilities’..."
Source:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/18/tactical-toolbox-aura-abilities-aug-18gw-homepage-post-3/

Depending on where the emphasis is put, the sentence has different meanings:
"SOME of these abilities affect all friendly models or units within a certain range." reads only some abilities affect friendly models or units. Some abilities affect enemy units.
"some of these abilities affect ALL friendly models or units within a certain range." reads either models or units benefit as long as they are within certain range.
"some of these abilities affect all friendly models OR units within a certain range." reads some abilities only affect friendly models, while some abilities affect units.

Obviously, Warhammer Community post can't be regarded as official ruling on the matter. It is quite ambiguous - but we can observe the consistency in that aura abilities are "abilities [that] affect... models or units within a certain range".

Following this line of logic, then we arrive at abilities such as "Explodes." Indeed, it is an [Ability] that has an [Effect] of dealing mortal wounds to units within 3". It fulfills all of the requirements of [Aura Abilities] per RAW. However, we see that [Ability:Explodes] is an ability triggered by a dice roll - this is distinctively different than what we consider "standard aura abilities" which does not require a dice roll and is always in effect. From here, we can then infer that aura abilities are:
4. Always "on" and does not require dice rolls to activate, since the only prerequisite is to be in range of the said model/unit that has such ability.

Which then brings us to the point, for the purpose of consistency, Voice of Command is;
1. An ability available to certain units.
2. Has an effective range of 6".
3. Grants orders from the source unit to a recipient unit.
4. Is always "on" and does not require a dice roll to activate.

To sum up, I AM on the boat for voice of Command not being considered an Aura Ability. But for consistency purposes listed above, I think Voice of Command is a viable target to Counter Tactics ability.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Right, but the effect and the ability aren't divided like that anywhere in the rules. One could say that Guilliman's re-roll aura (literally the basest form of aura) is [Ability: Lord Castellan of the Imperium] grants [Effect: Re-Roll To-Hit and To-Wound Rolls]."

There's no reason to parse abilities into [name] and [what they do].

But this is precisely how the datasheets are structured. Units/models have a certain [Ability], and that certain [Ability] has an [Effect] as described. The description of the [Ability] is the [Effect] the said [Ability] has, is it not?

Furthermore, you cannot consider "shooting" or "fighting" as an ability because it is not an ability granted under "Abilities" section in datasheets.

This brings up other issues as well:

Q. Is voice of command a aura ability if conscripts are required to roll to receive an order?
A. No, "Raw Recruit" is an ability that conscripts have.

Q. If one can argue that aura abilities are those that which affect more than one unit/model, how is Voice of Command an Aura Ability when it can only affect one unit per turn?
A. By extension of that, Voice of Command becomes an aura ability if the orders were issued using a Tempestus Command Rod, which affects two units in one turn.

Q. If one argues that Aura Abilities are those that affect multiple units, then, if a captain has no viable recipient of his 'Rite of Battle' other than himself, is it no longer considered an 'aura ability'?
A. ...

Yes, but one or two units is significant than all units, and still no different from psychic powers, which can also affect one unit.

Right, but RAW, aura abilities aren't explicitly defined as abilities that MUST affect all units/models in range, although safely assumable.

Honestly, GW just needs to release a glossary of terms.

 skchsan wrote:
Right, but RAW, aura abilities aren't explicitly defined as abilities that MUST affect all units/models in range, although safely assumable.

No, it's not safely assumable because the rule says the literal opposite. An ability that only affects <CHAPTER> would not fit your definition.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Right, but RAW, aura abilities aren't explicitly defined as abilities that MUST affect all units/models in range, although safely assumable.

No, it's not safely assumable because the rule says the literal opposite. An ability that only affects <CHAPTER> would not fit your definition.

So you're saying aura abilities are explicitly defined in the rulebook so that it MUST affect all (eligible) units/models in range? Because the "literal opposite" of what I said would be that...

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Right, but RAW, aura abilities aren't explicitly defined as abilities that MUST affect all units/models in range, although safely assumable.

No, it's not safely assumable because the rule says the literal opposite. An ability that only affects <CHAPTER> would not fit your definition.

So you're saying aura abilities are explicitly defined in the rulebook so that it MUST affect all (eligible) units/models in range? Because the "literal opposite" of what I said would be that...

My apologies, I misread your post as saying it must affect all models. I still disagree that it's assumable, since the rules are clear on that point.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Right, but RAW, aura abilities aren't explicitly defined as abilities that MUST affect all units/models in range, although safely assumable.

No, it's not safely assumable because the rule says the literal opposite. An ability that only affects <CHAPTER> would not fit your definition.

So you're saying aura abilities are explicitly defined in the rulebook so that it MUST affect all (eligible) units/models in range? Because the "literal opposite" of what I said would be that...

My apologies, I misread your post as saying it must affect all models. I still disagree that it's assumable, since the rules are clear on that point.

Well the "safely assumable" line was in agreement with your comment "my gut would say that it's only "passive" ones but I could easily see the argument it's all abilities with a range."

What about the "Abilities" section of the unit datasheet? Aren't those the abilities being referred to by Zahndrek's rule?

 Sautek Supreme wrote:
What about the "Abilities" section of the unit datasheet? Aren't those the abilities being referred to by Zahndrek's rule?

Sorry, what's the question?

Orders are not auras.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Orders are not auras.

The core rules say : "AURA ABILITIES Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range."

Orders are given by a character and they affect certain models within a given range.

No, they affect one target within a range.

Do people really not understand auras?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
No, they affect one target within a range.

Do people really not understand auras?

Apparently not.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
No, they affect one target within a range.

Senior Officer/Command Rod allows orders to be issued to two units. It is now affecting more than one target within a range. Is it now an aura?

A SM Captain has no eligible targets of 'Rites of Battle' other than himself. Is Rites of Battle no longer an aura ability since its only affecting one target within a range?

We all know what aura is. In this particular case, however, it cannot be defined by number of targets it affects.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
No, they affect one target within a range.

Do people really not understand auras?

"Certain models" includes one target.