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If you're one of those guys who likes to collect units here and there than you will understand the pain of paying for all those codices! I personally only have two armies so it's manageable but recently I really just wanted to add an Inquisitor to my army to spice up their lore but I'm unsure how to use him. I really don't want to buy an entire new codex just for one unit so what would you guys suggest? In addition, what do you guys think about people who don't use codices?

If you support GW, then you support them. If not, you don't buy a codex.
What constitutes "using a codex"? Does this mean I have to present a copy of the codex of the army I am using at a FLGS/tourneys to prove that you don't rely on pirated versions?

 skchsan wrote:
If you support GW, then you support them. If not, you don't buy a codex.
What constitutes "using a codex"? Does this mean I have to present a copy of the codex of the army I am using at a FLGS/tourneys to prove that you don't rely on pirated versions?

It's more an open discussion for a community. What do you guys think is and isn't presenting a codex? Does just printing out a single data sheet to use one unit count as Piracy if you use aps like Battlescribe?

I haven't bought a codex since 5th ed. Their codexes change too quickly, and many times they're full of errors that will get errata'd or changed with the advent of chapter approved.

It's not pirating, you aren't selling anything for profit.

Just use battlescribe.

Correction, I purchased the 6th ed. Chaos Marine book, which was so abysmally bad it made me not want to buy another codex ever again.

For those of us that would like to remain in the non-grey areas, good FLGSs usually have in-store customer browsing copies. I say if it's just one model that isn't pivotal to your Army, then by all means go with that or just ask a mate to borrow the dex for the rules on occasion (or just jot down the basics on a piece of paper, like stats, total point cost, wargear and so forth).

Imo the enviroment of 40k has drastically changed. Back when there was barely any of this allies crap there was very little reason not to have your codex. But the entire thing with 7th and it's supplements basically made codex bad investment. Nid players had to carry around whole libraries of books and documents just to get access to things they should have had access to in one book.

EDIT: I clemed at grammar.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

It's not pirating, you aren't selling anything for profit.

Wrong. No money has to change hands for it to be copyright infringement. Obtaining works published works by GW illicitly is illegal. However you might try to morally justify it to yourself, that much is crystal clear.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Just use battlescribe.

Every contributor to YMDC answers just had a stroke.

Please for the love of the god emperor of mankind do not JUST use Battlescribe! Not even for ethical reasons, you'll just get tons of rules wrong. Use it as an aide, as a tool for sure. But ALWAYS check against the books before taking your list in to battle.

It's going to be ok dude, don't go and have a stroke yourself.

GW clearly doesn't care about writing proper rules, so why should I care about buying them?

I purchase enough models on a very regular basis from them, I'm sure they aren't seeing much of a loss from me.

Use it as an aide, as a tool for sure. But ALWAYS check against the books before taking your list in to battle

So, you are berating me for having low moral standards because I use battlescribe, and then you turn around and say "use battlescribe as a tool"?

 lolman1c wrote:
If you're one of those guys who likes to collect units here and there than you will understand the pain of paying for all those codices! I personally only have two armies so it's manageable but recently I really just wanted to add an Inquisitor to my army to spice up their lore but I'm unsure how to use him. I really don't want to buy an entire new codex just for one unit so what would you guys suggest? In addition, what do you guys think about people who don't use codices?

You could always pick up the index for rules. As long as you're using the most recent points costs, I don't think most people would mind.

 EnTyme wrote:
You could always pick up the index for rules. As long as you're using the most recent points costs, I don't think most people would mind.

Tell that to a certain Grey Knight player who threw a hissy fit when someone asked if they could use index rules for the Commissar post-nerf.

But seriously the index sometimes might not suffice, although in this specific case it would.

HOnestly I wish GW would just publish one book with the core rules and one or two "index" books with all the unit rules instead of this codex crap. Individual Sourcebooks, especially since they have next to no hobby material left and Black Library is churning out books at a faster rate, are an anachronism for this game.

Several repackaged models have their 8E datasheet with them, especially the Start Collecting boxes. You might want to see if that models comes with it’s datasheet.

As someone whose been buying the BRB and a majority of the codexes since 2E days (and the indexes for 8E), I am in agreeance with just using battlescribe. GW should have gone the way of AoS and put the datasheets on their website. I don’t see a need for the codexes unless your into the lore and story as well as the rules.

I bought the indices. That was my line in the sand. I've bought no new codices since, but my regular opponents are of similar mind, so that makes it fairly easy: we play 7th/index version.

When I come up against an opponent in 8th who has a codex, we'll have a chat, and agree what works for us in that game. If he (or she) says "gotta have the codex", the game probably won't happen, as I can't see a lot of fun in a pickup game where I pay £30 to play (by buying the codex there and then) and learn the newer rules as I go along.

Friendly game with a buddy or someone on a budget? I don't mind if they're using printouts or something.

At a tournament? No Codex,no game. Though I do make an exception for someone using a few printouts if they're using, say, an Imperial Knight or a Forge World model. I can't blame someone for not wanting to buy a book for ONE model.

Stux wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

It's not pirating, you aren't selling anything for profit.

Wrong. No money has to change hands for it to be copyright infringement. Obtaining works published works by GW illicitly is illegal. However you might try to morally justify it to yourself, that much is crystal clear.

Small correction, the vast, vast majority of copyright infringements give rise to a civil suite NOT a criminal one, therefore it is not usually illegal. Criminal violations are very narrow and require acting for commercial advantage, private gain or basically by interfering in the distribution of commerce. At least, that's how it works here in the states.

My problem with people using battlescribe is that the rules are not always complete. I had someone say he didn't need to roll explodes because his battlescribe sheet didn't have that. But, when you looked up the model in the codex - there the rule was.

When people hand me their phone to digest rules, stats, etc, I don't like that. Maybe i'm a sourpuss. But if you're going to soup get the books you need. My 2c.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

So, you are berating me for having low moral standards because I use battlescribe, and then you turn around and say "use battlescribe as a tool"?

No. I said that even if you set aside ethical or legal arguments, it's still a terrible idea to rely on Battlescribe alone as a reference.

Stux wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

It's not pirating, you aren't selling anything for profit.

Wrong. No money has to change hands for it to be copyright infringement. Obtaining works published works by GW illicitly is illegal. However you might try to morally justify it to yourself, that much is crystal clear.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Just use battlescribe.

Every contributor to YMDC answers just had a stroke.

Please for the love of the god emperor of mankind do not JUST use Battlescribe! Not even for ethical reasons, you'll just get tons of rules wrong. Use it as an aide, as a tool for sure. But ALWAYS check against the books before taking your list in to battle.

Copyright law is very complicated, saying "Wrong" oversimplifies what is a big grey area in case law, while reproduction could be considered "fair use" in the UK, it could also be deemed a copyright infringement, it is not "crystal clear" either.

reproduction is permissable for personal use. So If I photocopied the space marines codex for my own private use? kosher, if I photocopied it and gave it away to people outside the local GW store? illegal

Yes, its a simplification. The important point I was attempting to make is that it doesn't matter whether anyone paid for it. It is an infringement of copyright to copy and distribute a protected work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
reproduction is permissable for personal use. So If I photocopied the space marines codex for my own private use? kosher, if I photocopied it and gave it away to people outside the local GW store? illegal

True, to a degree. It would likely not be legal to distribute it to you in the first place.

If you own a copy of the codex, then photocopying pages for your personal use is likely fine.

Though as others have pointed out, copyright law is complex and varies considerably from country to country.

For those of you discussing the legalities of it, do note that even among commonwealth countries, we still have vastly different laws. What might fly across the pond might not fly here and vice versa, and that's not even getting into personal interpretations and what's actually fact and what's just popular "knowledge" (which is often not true when taken a closer look).

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
For those of you discussing the legalities of it, do note that even among commonwealth countries, we still have vastly different laws. What might fly across the pond might not fly here and vice versa, and that's not even getting into personal interpretations and what's actually fact and what's just popular "knowledge" (which is often not true when taken a closer look).

Yep, thats why I mentioned UK specifically, cant speak of other countries.

It's the 'distribution' thing here that's a big deal. And I'm not sure about the differences between me photocopying a few pages and handing them to you, vs. me selling you a photocopied Codex. While I'm sure there are laws there, it's not like the 5-0's are rolling up to the FLGS and putting the nightsticks and tazers to someone with a few pages in a binder.

I actually use a binder with photocopied pages from the Codex. I place all the Units I'm using in my list in that binder so it's easier for me to reference them (a lot easier than having to flip through the book to find something). If anyone asks, I can show them my actual Codex in my backpack. I even put a little 'X' in the bottom corner of the page so that you can see the photocopy is from my own book.

The only person that whined about this is the guy that whines about literally everything.

If gw just had all rules/updatable codexes in a digital subscription it wouldnt be a problem. I know they are a small company and dont have the right resources to do it but that doesnt mean it SHOULDNT be done.

I would hands down pay 60usd a year for current rules, a list building app, dice simulators, and (wishfull thinking) vids of rules as intended being played out.

This would be so good for them i even if they initially lost money im sure it would pay off in the end

Thats just my dream for the game. Writing everything on paper wouldnt go away but having it official, up to date and accessable would be a dream come true.

I suppose I also frown upon someone who'll spend hundreds of dollars on an army, but can't manage to purchase a Codex.

If you can toss over a grand at GW and FW, you can set aside some for the book.

Buy all your models off ebay and google search your datasheets. Youll be fine and gw wont notice.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I haven't bought a codex since 5th ed. Their codexes change too quickly, and many times they're full of errors that will get errata'd or changed with the advent of chapter approved.

It's not pirating, you aren't selling anything for profit.

Just use battlescribe.

Correction, I purchased the 6th ed. Chaos Marine book, which was so abysmally bad it made me not want to buy another codex ever again.

Well. If you can't show me better rules than battlescribe print then you wouldn't get to use the model. The moment I would notice you have only battlescribe printout either miodel goes out or game ends there, Battlescribe while good(and I use it myself) a) contains error b) is modifiable by player. You need to be able to prove rule actually goes like that and say inv save isn't actually different or rule goes wildly different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Use it as an aide, as a tool for sure. But ALWAYS check against the books before taking your list in to battle

So, you are berating me for having low moral standards because I use battlescribe, and then you turn around and say "use battlescribe as a tool"?

You can use it as a tool IF YOU HAVE VERIFIED FIRST UP they are correct. And have actual book to show rule in question to opponent so that opponent knows that it IS so and not mistake by battlescribe or by you modifying battlescribe data to make model cheaper or more powerful it should be.

I come along showing you my unit of X has 2++ with rerolls in battlescribe print out. You going to accept it?

I haven't bought a codex since 3rd edition.

Not buying the codex means getting more plastic models instead, it's not fair saying that if you want to support GW you must buy the books. Just give them money, they don't care about what item do you buy

I've considered photocopying the key pages of my codex so I can hand them to my opponent.

The obvious advantage is he can see my rules for the game, without needing me to lose my page or get sticky fingers on my hardcopy.

Would this fall under distribution or fair use?

If I did this for a tournament, I'd probably make a print off for each opponent, just like how many tournaments you need to give an army list to each opponent. Would that change anything?

 lolman1c wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
If you support GW, then you support them. If not, you don't buy a codex.
What constitutes "using a codex"? Does this mean I have to present a copy of the codex of the army I am using at a FLGS/tourneys to prove that you don't rely on pirated versions?

It's more an open discussion for a community. What do you guys think is and isn't presenting a codex? Does just printing out a single data sheet to use one unit count as Piracy if you use aps like Battlescribe?

The only time you ever actually NEED a codex is if a you have some kind of problem. In hundreds of tournament games I've never pulled out a codex without a judge staring at me.

If its just for a unit or two, just print the datasheet off and write down the points. I did that for my Blood Slaughterer, because I refused to pay an additional 30 canadian dollars for a SINGLE sheet.

nareik wrote:
I've considered photocopying the key pages of my codex so I can hand them to my opponent.

The obvious advantage is he can see my rules for the game, without needing me to lose my page or get sticky fingers on my hardcopy.

I never let people touch the codex if they've been eating, I just hold it out for them to read.
And on battlescribe, at the end of 7th I started my SM army as the rumour mill was in a frenzy over 8th, so for the last few months of 7th's existence I just used battescribe rather than buying a codex that would be invalid pretty soon.