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If I manage to Mind Control a Leman Russ tank, can I fire all of it's weapons such as the main turret and sponson weapons or do I need to fire one weapon of my choice? I've seen a previous thread with a similar question, until I saw the psychic power in a tactics guide in a website that contradicts it. Did the rule for the spell change?
Screenshot of Mind Control rule in website: https://m.imgur.com/a/nJEyd
Actual website: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Genestealer_Cults(8E)#Broodmind_Discipline

"...the model immediately makes a single ranged or melee attack against another enemy unit."

I have marked the important word, in red color. You do know what the word single means, dont you ? Its 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8, not 9, just 1 attack. Even if the russ had 126 guns, you would only make 1 attack with 1 gun of your choice.

Not just one attack, one shot. From the Number of Shots section

"Each time a model shoots a ranged weapon, it will make a number of attacks. You roll once dice for each attack being made".

So, you're rolling one die for one attack.

Power is improperly quoted. The power actually reads: "...but if it is equal to or greater, that model may immediately shoot another enemy unit of your choice, or make a single close combat attack against it, as if it were a part of your army."

Via the actual power, when you shoot, you may use any number of weapons available to one model in the unit selected. In the case of a Leman Russ tank, you may fire all of its weapons.

 p5freak wrote:
"...the model immediately makes a single ranged or melee attack against another enemy unit."

I have marked the important word, in red color. You do know what the word single means, dont you ? Its 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8, not 9, just 1 attack. Even if the russ had 126 guns, you would only make 1 attack with 1 gun of your choice.

There has been a misunderstanding and it could have been prevented if I posted the rule.

Mind Control: Pick an enemy model within 12" of the psyker and roll 3D6. If the score is less than the model's Leadership nothing happens, but if it is equal or greater, that model can immediately shoot another enemy unit of your choice, or make one single close combat attack against it, as if it were part of your army. Models cannot attack themselves, but they can attack members of their unit.

That rule was copy pasted from Battlescribe, but the Xenos 2 Index has the exact same text for Mind Control. in Battlescribe, the one attack is only applied for close quarters attacks. Why are the rules different between the Index and the Website? Did it change and the rule on the website was up to date?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Partial Arc LLC. wrote:
Power is improperly quoted. The power actually reads: "...but if it is equal to or greater, that model may immediately shoot another enemy unit of your choice, or make a single close combat attack against it, as if it were a part of your army."

Via the actual power, when you shoot, you may use any number of weapons available to one model in the unit selected. In the case of a Leman Russ tank, you may fire all of its weapons.

Thanks for the correction, don't know why the website didn't bother to copy and paste the psychic power, it caused so much confusion.

Ok, wrong quote. But even with the right quote the power wouldnt work, if we follow RAW. Core rules pg. 3 defines what enemy models are :

Enemy Models

All models in the same army are friendly models. Models controlled by an opposing player are enemy models.

The stratagem doesnt make the unit part of your army. It doesnt say you control it. You would have to attack one of your own units.

 p5freak wrote:
Ok, wrong quote. But even with the right quote the power wouldnt work, if we follow RAW. Core rules pg. 3 defines what enemy models are :

Enemy Models

All models in the same army are friendly models. Models controlled by an opposing player are enemy models.

The stratagem doesnt make the unit part of your army. It doesnt say you control it. You would have to attack one of your own units.

What are you on about? You can fire all guns, as others have demonstrated by quoting correctly. Also, you in no way have to target your own forces. Don't be silly. It's referring to your enemy, not the enemies of the controlled unit (i.e. your own army). Twisting this to claim you have to shoot your own dudes is ridiculous.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

What are you on about? You can fire all guns, as others have demonstrated by quoting correctly. Also, you in no way have to target your own forces. Don't be silly. It's referring to your enemy, not the enemies of the controlled unit (i.e. your own army). Twisting this to claim you have to shoot your own dudes is ridiculous.

Yes, you can fire all guns. Read the definition in the core rules what friendly units are, and what enemy units are. If you mind control the unit its still in the same army. The stratagem doesnt change to which player the mind controlled unit belongs to. You can shoot its guns, but only at the enemy. Which, by definition, are your own units.

 p5freak wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

What are you on about? You can fire all guns, as others have demonstrated by quoting correctly. Also, you in no way have to target your own forces. Don't be silly. It's referring to your enemy, not the enemies of the controlled unit (i.e. your own army). Twisting this to claim you have to shoot your own dudes is ridiculous.

Yes, you can fire all guns. Read the definition in the core rules what friendly units are, and what enemy units are. If you mind control the unit its still in the same army. The stratagem doesnt change to which player the mind controlled unit belongs to. You can shoot its guns, but only at the enemy. Which, by definition, are your own units.

If you'd argue this to me in an actual battle, I'd quit immediately. Whatever you think the rule says, it is 100% clear to everyone that you would be shooting the enemy units and not your own.

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, you can fire all guns. Read the definition in the core rules what friendly units are, and what enemy units are. If you mind control the unit its still in the same army. The stratagem doesnt change to which player the mind controlled unit belongs to. You can shoot its guns, but only at the enemy. Which, by definition, are your own units.

You are being purposefully obtuse and dragging this thread into a bad direction. Stop.

 p5freak wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

What are you on about? You can fire all guns, as others have demonstrated by quoting correctly. Also, you in no way have to target your own forces. Don't be silly. It's referring to your enemy, not the enemies of the controlled unit (i.e. your own army). Twisting this to claim you have to shoot your own dudes is ridiculous.

Yes, you can fire all guns. Read the definition in the core rules what friendly units are, and what enemy units are. If you mind control the unit its still in the same army. The stratagem doesnt change to which player the mind controlled unit belongs to. You can shoot its guns, but only at the enemy. Which, by definition, are your own units.

Ridiculous. Wilfully misinterpreting a clear rule.

 p5freak wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

What are you on about? You can fire all guns, as others have demonstrated by quoting correctly. Also, you in no way have to target your own forces. Don't be silly. It's referring to your enemy, not the enemies of the controlled unit (i.e. your own army). Twisting this to claim you have to shoot your own dudes is ridiculous.

Yes, you can fire all guns. Read the definition in the core rules what friendly units are, and what enemy units are. If you mind control the unit its still in the same army. The stratagem doesnt change to which player the mind controlled unit belongs to. You can shoot its guns, but only at the enemy. Which, by definition, are your own units.

Mind Control: Pick an enemy model within 12" of the psyker and roll 3D6. If the score is less than the model's Leadership nothing happens, but if it is equal or greater, that model can immediately shoot another enemy unit of your choice, or make one single close combat attack against it, as if it were part of your army. Models cannot attack themselves, but they can attack members of their unit.

 p5freak wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

What are you on about? You can fire all guns, as others have demonstrated by quoting correctly. Also, you in no way have to target your own forces. Don't be silly. It's referring to your enemy, not the enemies of the controlled unit (i.e. your own army). Twisting this to claim you have to shoot your own dudes is ridiculous.

Yes, you can fire all guns. Read the definition in the core rules what friendly units are, and what enemy units are. If you mind control the unit its still in the same army. The stratagem doesnt change to which player the mind controlled unit belongs to. You can shoot its guns, but only at the enemy. Which, by definition, are your own units.

So the part about shooting a different enemy unit isn't enough?

 Alchemys wrote:

Mind Control: Pick an enemy model within 12" of the psyker and roll 3D6. If the score is less than the model's Leadership nothing happens, but if it is equal or greater, that model can immediately shoot another enemy unit of your choice, or make one single close combat attack against it, as if it were part of your army. Models cannot attack themselves, but they can attack members of their unit.

Sorry, i didnt see " as if it were part of your army."