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You fix soup quite easily by saying you only get CPs from detachments that are from the same force as your Warlord. So no more cheap CP buffing with Imperial Guard.

Otherwise I would love (but doubt it will happen) a reduction in dice rolls. Make an Imperial Guard med pack auto heal, but double the cost (currently 4+), fix lots of variable dice on how many attacks to a flat x attacks (so say D6 replaced by '3', keep variable for narrative play, faster fixed numbers for matched play). Make bonuses that increase the number of shots or let you re-roll 1's/misses bonus's to hit instead (so say first rank fire second rank fire becomes +2 to hit and so on). Really the amount of dice rolls currently is a bit silly! - A basic lasgun squad of guard at rapid fire range under orders can put out 37 dice of shots...

 Ghaz wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
40K facebook just said that the FAQ won't be out until after Adepticon. So that means that it will be out the last week of the month.

It is nice to see that GW didin't want to disrupt things just before Adepticon. It shows that they are at least paying attention to the big events.

Hmm. Just two hours ago they said this...

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:We've still got 17 days left in March! Once we know exactly when the FAQ is due we'll be letting everyone know here on Facebook.

That doesn't necessarily contradict the other statement.

It kinda does, since it also includes the days before AdeptiCon.

Except that statement doesn't exclude or include those days. It's a statement of "look guys - March isn't even half over - chill out". They don't have an exact date, but based on the other comment it will be after Adepticon. Nothing contradicts unless you will it to.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
You fix soup quite easily by saying you only get CPs from detachments that are from the same force as your Warlord. So no more cheap CP buffing with Imperial Guard.

So still hooray for Imperial Soup filling out a fairly cheap guard brigade and having enough points to still get their punchy elements from other imperial lists?

The_Real_Chris wrote:
You fix soup quite easily by saying you only get CPs from detachments that are from the same force as your Warlord. So no more cheap CP buffing with Imperial Guard.

I'd like to add a "only use stratagems from your warlord's faction" to that please.

6 ppm guardsmen also fixes cheap souping. And it fixes 200 infantry lists guarding 1000 pts of undercosted artillery. Costing units appropriately in all codices largely fixes soup, because then there's far less reason to reach into another codex.

Here's the quote:

Hey, Warhammer 40,000, any news on the big March FAQ? When will it get released? My Grey Knights are suffering

Warhammer 40,000 Ok, we'll be more precise then! It will come after Adepticon, so expect it near the end of the month

make of it what you want.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 RiderOrk wrote:
Hopefully they come out with the FAQ. Do you think it will change some of the soup? I am not being salty I am just curious due to the way some tournaments are rumored to be going.

You mean 1 40 man tournament that placed a name only restriction on soup?

Is that your opinion about if they will make changes to the soup or are you just stating that you know of every tournament that takes place around the world?

The_Real_Chris wrote:
You fix soup quite easily by saying you only get CPs from detachments that are from the same force as your Warlord. So no more cheap CP buffing with Imperial Guard.

Not going to help, they take 750 Guard Brigade and 1250 Blood Angels Battalion and have a blood angels Warlord use 16 CP.

Solution: each detachment can only use the CP they generate, with 3 that can be used in any detachment. Problem solved.

By the formula given by The Real Chris the Blood Angel warlord would only have 3 CP from the battalion and 3 for being a war forged army. He would gain nothing from the Guard Brigade.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
By the formula given by The Real Chris the Blood Angel warlord would only have 3 CP from the battalion and 3 for being a war forged army. He would gain nothing from the Guard Brigade.

you know what your right I didn't read that right sorry about that @ The_Real_Chris.

My idea and his yield about the same results then...apologies.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
By the formula given by The Real Chris the Blood Angel warlord would only have 3 CP from the battalion and 3 for being a war forged army. He would gain nothing from the Guard Brigade.

you know what your right I didn't read that right sorry about that @ The_Real_Chris.

My idea and his yield about the same results then...apologies.

Except that his idea doesn't leave 9 CP for the guard battalion to use. Plus it reduces record keeping of Det X has Y Command Points and Det A has C Command Points. Though at this point, anything would be better than the current implementation. I'm all for conglomerations, but reward those who build a a single, organic army.

mokoshkana wrote:
I'm all for conglomerations, but reward those who build a a single, organic army.

I get that his lacks 9cp for the guard.

Honestly your not going to do much with 9 CP in that guard list, its mostly mortars and infantry. Very few useful stratagems. Really all it will do is make people drop any attempt at the brigade; outside of pure lists, and take something a more useful with 1-2 of the following: Battalion outrider, spearhead, vanguard, or supreme Command; in addition to the original Battalion. The over all effect will be less CP for the power lists.

Is there a date for this FAQ or will it just drop whenever this month?

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Is there a date for this FAQ or will it just drop whenever this month?

Whenever. They are not saying a date either because they don't know or because it's not actually done yet

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Is there a date for this FAQ or will it just drop whenever this month?

Most likely at the end of the month after Adepticon.

Should we fear the upcoming FAQs in some way?
Or should we be confident that the game gets more balanced?

Martel732 wrote:
6 ppm guardsmen also fixes cheap souping. And it fixes 200 infantry lists guarding 1000 pts of undercosted artillery. Costing units appropriately in all codices largely fixes soup, because then there's far less reason to reach into another codex.

I don't think paying 60 points more is any significant difference for a Guard battalion and does nothing for those who are using them for a boost. I mean in a 2000 point list that is a 3% cost increase. I had no idea the margin between success and failure was so small...

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Honestly your not going to do much with 9 CP in that guard list, its mostly mortars and infantry. Very few useful stratagems.

True, though if Catachan you get the nifty booby traps which enhances them as a roadblock (that and having +1 LD when an officer is nearby...).

The fix to soup could be even more simple and harsh. If you take a soup army you no longer benefit from the stratagems, special rules or other benefits of the codex army.

This won't happen of course because, unfortunately, GW have designed some armies around the assumption that they will take allies - Grey Knights and Custodes immediately spring to mind.

Perhaps they will force players to have a 'Primary' detachment if there are detachments from different codexes and only their stratagems can be used on that detachment. You wouldn't want to punish players for taking an Ultramarines and Salamanders force I don't think. Other option is to remove the 'Imperium' and 'Chaos' faction keywords from matched play.

Wayniac wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Is there a date for this FAQ or will it just drop whenever this month?

Whenever. They are not saying a date either because they don't know or because it's not actually done yet

This was mentioned earlier in the thread.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Here's the quote:

Hey, Warhammer 40,000, any news on the big March FAQ? When will it get released? My Grey Knights are suffering

Warhammer 40,000 Ok, we'll be more precise then! It will come after Adepticon, so expect it near the end of the month

make of it what you want.

Thanks Leo!

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The fix to soup could be even more simple and harsh. If you take a soup army you no longer benefit from the stratagems, special rules or other benefits of the codex army.

This won't happen of course because, unfortunately, GW have designed some armies around the assumption that they will take allies - Grey Knights and Custodes immediately spring to mind.

Perhaps they will force players to have a 'Primary' detachment if there are detachments from different codexes and only their stratagems can be used on that detachment. You wouldn't want to punish players for taking an Ultramarines and Salamanders force I don't think. Other option is to remove the 'Imperium' and 'Chaos' faction keywords from matched play.

I would hope GW would not do that and would much rather see the FAQ provide better synergy for mixed detachments on par with what you get using a mono-Codex army.

There is no problem with a soup list per se. Rules for allies fighting together was a big improvement in 6th.

This filled in a lot of gaps that came out of giving armies their own Codexes. Grey Knights used to be part of the Daemonhunters Codex. Daemons used to be part of the Chaos Space Marines Codex. It's perfectly natural to want to play them as part of a larger Inquisition or Chaos force, and I would hate to see them nerfed for working together.

The problem with soup lists is when people are forced to use them because their Codex options are too weak to stand on their own. On the one hand, synergy between two forces fighting together is hit-or-miss. SM / IG get a lot, CSM / CD don't. That's not fair. Eldar / Tau will have no synergy, and that's really awful.

On the other hand, it makes you wonder how important Codexes are now that we have Detachments. A Codex is now a collection of datasheets, warlord traits, stratagems, relics, and psychic abilities. If you can't build a strong army with a given Codex, should it even exist?

Probably not. That's a sign of bad game design, not a problem with mixing lists.

Such plug-in faction could just have exceptions from the rule. AM already has similar rules in place right in their codex for factions that are not AM, but belong with the imperial army.

The problem is not GK terminators helping out some guardsmen, the problem is tzeench horrors turning into death guard box walkers while getting screened by alpha legion cultists.

 Jidmah wrote:
Such plug-in faction could just have exceptions from the rule. AM already has similar rules in place right in their codex for factions that are not AM, but belong with the imperial army.

The problem is not GK terminators helping out some guardsmen, the problem is tzeench horrors turning into death guard box walkers while getting screened by alpha legion cultists.

Genuine question here - why is this bad? Is it because of luff or you find this particular build too strong?

Wait, CSM and CD don't get a lot of synergy? Wut?

 wuestenfux wrote:
Should we fear the upcoming FAQs in some way?
Or should we be confident that the game gets more balanced?

Depending on your army - possibly both.

Remove the ability to use strategems from your secondary and third codices.

Add in "Chapter Abilities" that are army wide for Chaos and SM; i.e. Iron Warrior tanks get the reroll against stuff in buildings. I would probably re-do the Alpha Legion one though, a lot of people will QQ. But it makes sense if the army is that army, they should all get whatever benefit.

I think soupings fine, it breaks it when you can use multiple codex strategems. This would get rid of people using a CSM detachment solely to recycle 40 cultists, or the weird Eldar stuff, or the constant debates as to whether or not Daemon strategems work on X Y or Z unit, etc,

 Zid wrote:
Remove the ability to use strategems from your secondary and third codices.

Add in "Chapter Abilities" that are army wide for Chaos and SM; i.e. Iron Warrior tanks get the reroll against stuff in buildings. I would probably re-do the Alpha Legion one though, a lot of people will QQ. But it makes sense if the army is that army, they should all get whatever benefit.

I think soupings fine, it breaks it when you can use multiple codex strategems. This would get rid of people using a CSM detachment solely to recycle 40 cultists, or the weird Eldar stuff, or the constant debates as to whether or not Daemon strategems work on X Y or Z unit, etc,

I see this quoted pretty often, people do understand that this is just as effective as a ban on soup armies right?

Gw could just fix marines 11 point marines 16 point intercessors, mix throughout. Done. Marines suck, that’s problem. Fix it for once instead of sticking your head in the sand


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seriously 3+ armor isn’t worth what gw charges, it never has, the one time marines were good, they had to give them all free transports.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Gw could just fix marines 11 point marines 16 point intercessors, mix throughout. Done. Marines suck, that’s problem. Fix it for once instead of sticking your head in the sand


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seriously 3+ armor isn’t worth what gw charges, it never has, the one time marines were good, they had to give them all free transports.

Sure, so long as you're cool with 7pt SoB.

How much are sob now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sob should by rights be like 1 point over skitarii vanguard/Rangers

gendoikari87 wrote:
How much are sob now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sob should by rights be like 1 point over skitarii vanguard/Rangers

Vanguard are 8.
Another job done with DakkaDakka's great rules team!