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The irony here is that when it does drop, the response by many is likely to be "we waited that long for THIS!?"

gendoikari87 wrote:
1. Lets start with what they’ve kept which is 0 they missed the first damn deadline
2. Yes here’s how you adjust “guys we are aware of the issue we’re going to take our time to get it right instead of rushing it, this will be addressed in September or in a stand alone faq if and when we feel it is perfect “
3. Maybe it’s one piece. Maybe it’s 90%. Honor your word take your time drop what is available on time
4. Let them bitch they’ll still buy instead of holding off
5. Because 6 months as opposed to 45 days is longer to work on it and not an unbearable amount of time for it not to be addressed

Is someone feeling a wee bit entitled? Things happen. Get over it and move on.

I have no expectations, really. I don't think points change until CA, which is the real fix. The FAQ is more like rearranging chairs on the Titanic without points changes.

jcd386 wrote:
The irony here is that when it does drop, the response by many is likely to be "we waited that long for THIS!?"

I bet we'll see some questionable changes and people will lose their minds before they even give it a shot.

Maybe 50/50.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ash87 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
45 days late because hive tyrants?!?!?! And they expect what with their codex faqs? No way any of them will be useful if it takes 45 days to fix hive tyrants

Hello, welcome to Tau Hell... where we've also been waiting on our Codex FAQ, for a month now

Do you think sheild drones will survive this FAQ - if it ever does come? Even as a tau player I kind of feel like I am cheating when I use them.

I mean, the shield drone changes have been in place for a minute now, these were the changes we saw back from Index 2 just now printed in the Codex. I think they'll be fine because they have 0 offensive capability.

I will say, I had a hilarious time the other day preventing someone from using a Forgefiend by continually charging it with shield drones, shrugging off the overwatch, and preventing it from shooting for 2 battle rounds.

 Ordana wrote:

Ash87 wrote:
Would be nice to at least get a timetable here from GW.

I don't even care if it's going to be like, a Summer FAQ at this point, as long as I know a vague guesstimate.

That's always extremely frustrating because I've been sitting here for multiple weeks now going: "Should I play this week, or just wait?"

Why on earth would a potential faq coming out stop you from playing the game you enjoy?
Hold off on buying for tournament play I can understand. but not playing?
Teh feth.

Well it's obviously not stopping me from playing, but I always worry that I need to rejig my lists as Is, the added uncertainty of having to change them all because of FAQs is just that much more added in.

Martel732 wrote:
I have no expectations, really. I don't think points change until CA, which is the real fix. The FAQ is more like rearranging chairs on the Titanic without points changes.

Meh rules changes are at least as effective as points changes in achieving balance. If you rules change dark reapers such that they don’t always hit on a 3+ and their weapon modes change to 1 shot S 8 D3, and 2 shots S 5 damage 1. You need them as much or more than any points. change. If flyrants are 0-3 and say no longer deepstrike then they largely don’t need a points change.

Now that may not happen, but the idea that without points changes any change is meaningless is silly.

Let's all hope these changes, and this one specifically, are fake.

Because if GW is nerfing GK of all people, then we're all destined for the garbage bin.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Let's all hope these changes, and this one specifically, are fake.

Because if GW is nerfing GK of all people, then we're all destined for the garbage bin.

Could you link that original image?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Let's all hope these changes, and this one specifically, are fake.

Because if GW is nerfing GK of all people, then we're all destined for the garbage bin.

Well, they doubled the range, but cut the damage in half-ish. It really depends what else accompanies that change.

The sad part is that's a little better IMO than what they have now. I'll take lesser damage to even be able to use the ability. It used to be 3" range with a Brother Captain the range can now be 12".

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
The sad part is that's a little better IMO than what they have now. I'll take lesser damage to even be able to use the ability. It used to be 3" range with a Brother Captain the range can now be 12".

Right, which I think is the expectation. 12" is a decent reach. Now it comes down to how they handle smite degradation.

I thought that was half the range. My reaction could be dramatic due to a lack of information on my end.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

I agree with you premise, but we're back in a circle:
In order to convince me that "the game would be better if we did it your way" then you'll have to convince me and "my feels" aren't convincing. They may be for other people, and that's fine, but in order to be convinced by a position, I'd like to actually know what that position is supporting. Everyone wants the game to be "more fun" but what that means varies so widely that if I just said "sure, let's do it your way" to everyone, I'd find myself supporting directly contradictory views of how the game should be played.

"I feel it isn't fun, so let's make it fun" isn't ... really convincing to me. Give me what you intend to do to make it fun, and why that is good, and where it stops; in other words, tell me what you mean by "fun" according to your perspective.

I mean, first, it's pretty disingenuous to characterize my position as "we should adopt rules changes X, Y, and Z because I feel like it would be more fun that way" full stop. I give reasons for this stuff that someone might find convincing, I explain the ways in which I think the game would be more fun and why, etc. Second, I'm not trying to convince you, specifically. In general it's healthiest to approach discussions on a forum as being about (1) clarifying your own thinking and (2) persuading the people reading but not necessarily the people participating. You also learn pretty quickly that there are some people who are just kind of hopeless, and sometimes they're some of the most vocal on a forum. But in this case specifically maybe you're never going to be persuaded of the sort of thing I'm arguing. That's fine! Maybe we just have very different tastes and what I find fun is very different from what you find fun, and that's OK. But I don't need unanimity here. My sense is that, as a practical matter, you're the one who has to convince people like me that we shouldn't proceed with nerfing Hive Tyrants and Dark Reapers until we've got a really rigorous idea of where we're going. Because I think I'm clearly in the majority here and I think everyone has the sense that GW is likely to act on that.

Ash87 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ash87 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
45 days late because hive tyrants?!?!?! And they expect what with their codex faqs? No way any of them will be useful if it takes 45 days to fix hive tyrants

Hello, welcome to Tau Hell... where we've also been waiting on our Codex FAQ, for a month now

Do you think sheild drones will survive this FAQ - if it ever does come? Even as a tau player I kind of feel like I am cheating when I use them.

I mean, the shield drone changes have been in place for a minute now, these were the changes we saw back from Index 2 just now printed in the Codex. I think they'll be fine because they have 0 offensive capability.

I will say, I had a hilarious time the other day preventing someone from using a Forgefiend by continually charging it with shield drones, shrugging off the overwatch, and preventing it from shooting for 2 battle rounds.

 Ordana wrote:

Ash87 wrote:
Would be nice to at least get a timetable here from GW.

I don't even care if it's going to be like, a Summer FAQ at this point, as long as I know a vague guesstimate.

That's always extremely frustrating because I've been sitting here for multiple weeks now going: "Should I play this week, or just wait?"

Why on earth would a potential faq coming out stop you from playing the game you enjoy?
Hold off on buying for tournament play I can understand. but not playing?
Teh feth.

Well it's obviously not stopping me from playing, but I always worry that I need to rejig my lists as Is, the added uncertainty of having to change them all because of FAQs is just that much more added in.

The wording significantly changed with savior protocols. It used to allocate wounds - now it allocates hits. Where by you can intercept las cannons for a single mortal wound but shield drones have a 5+FNP. I think it's exceptionally broken. Almost to the point that shooting armies will automatically lose to tau unless they have tons of indirect fire to target the drones first.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I thought that was half the range. My reaction could be dramatic due to a lack of information on my end.

That's why it's always good to sit and discuss it through, which will be 100% the opposite of what happens when this thing drops.

It's going to be a fun few weeks sorting it out.

It does seem like credible info is being leaked by someone. I would expect if the tension on this continues too much longer the top might pop off. This may convince GW to do player involved testing in the future - they have already with beta rules, but something to a wider degree.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Ash87 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ash87 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
45 days late because hive tyrants?!?!?! And they expect what with their codex faqs? No way any of them will be useful if it takes 45 days to fix hive tyrants

Hello, welcome to Tau Hell... where we've also been waiting on our Codex FAQ, for a month now

Do you think sheild drones will survive this FAQ - if it ever does come? Even as a tau player I kind of feel like I am cheating when I use them.

I mean, the shield drone changes have been in place for a minute now, these were the changes we saw back from Index 2 just now printed in the Codex. I think they'll be fine because they have 0 offensive capability.

I will say, I had a hilarious time the other day preventing someone from using a Forgefiend by continually charging it with shield drones, shrugging off the overwatch, and preventing it from shooting for 2 battle rounds.

The wording significantly changed with savior protocols. It used to allocate wounds - now it allocates hits. Where by you can intercept las cannons for a single mortal wound but shield drones have a 5+FNP. I think it's exceptionally broken. Almost to the point that shooting armies will automatically lose to tau unless they have tons of indirect fire to target the drones first.

I might of been playing wrong, but I swore that the point at which you allocate the hit hadn't changed since the Xenos 2 FAQ, just the 2+ to allow drones to intercept was all I recalled being added in the Codex.

"Exceptionally broken"... I mean... Eh? It gives a lot of survivability to Suites and Infantry. If it was the full "Look out sir" rule I would say yes to it being broken, but I loose a lot of shield drones to little shots with that 5+.

Ash87 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Ash87 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ash87 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
45 days late because hive tyrants?!?!?! And they expect what with their codex faqs? No way any of them will be useful if it takes 45 days to fix hive tyrants

Hello, welcome to Tau Hell... where we've also been waiting on our Codex FAQ, for a month now

Do you think sheild drones will survive this FAQ - if it ever does come? Even as a tau player I kind of feel like I am cheating when I use them.

I mean, the shield drone changes have been in place for a minute now, these were the changes we saw back from Index 2 just now printed in the Codex. I think they'll be fine because they have 0 offensive capability.

I will say, I had a hilarious time the other day preventing someone from using a Forgefiend by continually charging it with shield drones, shrugging off the overwatch, and preventing it from shooting for 2 battle rounds.

The wording significantly changed with savior protocols. It used to allocate wounds - now it allocates hits. Where by you can intercept las cannons for a single mortal wound but shield drones have a 5+FNP. I think it's exceptionally broken. Almost to the point that shooting armies will automatically lose to tau unless they have tons of indirect fire to target the drones first.

I might of been playing wrong, but I swore that the point at which you allocate the hit hadn't changed since the Xenos 2 FAQ, just the 2+ to allow drones to intercept was all I recalled being added in the Codex.

"Exceptionally broken"... I mean... Eh? It gives a lot of survivability to Suites and Infantry. If it was the full "Look out sir" rule I would say yes to it being broken, but I loose a lot of shield drones to little shots with that 5+.

I've got the index on my phone - it says "you may chose to allocate wounds to the drones instead of the target unit" It was later errated to say that if they do it it counts as a mortal wound and people said...well why would I ever take a shield drone? Well that was true - there was no reason to - now there is.

I played against it and I've played with it. If there is anyplace that broadsides or riptides can set up with some LOS blocking terrain the can stand next to and peek out - but hide the drones - they are essentially at indestructible levels like squads were with a tank unit with look out sirs. They could fix it by changing the rule to state the drone must be visable to the firing unit in order to roll the 2+ - that would fix it. It is not broken when you can actually shoot the drone.

I'm a little dubious about the GK rumor simply due to the fact it doesn't address what happens when used vs Daemons. It could be just typical GW sloppiness but I don't get that vibe.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm a little dubious about the GK rumor simply due to the fact it doesn't address what happens when used vs Daemons. It could be just typical GW sloppiness but I don't get that vibe.

Current rule doesn't call out Daemons, does it? Rites of Banishment does, but that's different than what Purifiers has.

What is that image from, and what is the source?

jcd386 wrote:
The irony here is that when it does drop, the response by many is likely to be "we waited that long for THIS!?"

Yeah, there's people who earnestly expect half the units in their army to go down significantly in points, so I am certain people will be disappointed by the FAQ.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm a little dubious about the GK rumor simply due to the fact it doesn't address what happens when used vs Daemons. It could be just typical GW sloppiness but I don't get that vibe.

Current rule doesn't call out Daemons, does it? Rites of Banishment does, but that's different than what Purifiers has.

It really doesn't matter anyway. There's still no use for Purifiers if that's their only adjustment.

 meleti wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
The irony here is that when it does drop, the response by many is likely to be "we waited that long for THIS!?"

Yeah, there's people who earnestly expect half the units in their army to go down significantly in points, so I am certain people will be disappointed by the FAQ.

I'm not one of them. I just want to see what these FAQs are about. I'm aware CA is there for unit prices.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm a little dubious about the GK rumor simply due to the fact it doesn't address what happens when used vs Daemons. It could be just typical GW sloppiness but I don't get that vibe.

Current rule doesn't call out Daemons, does it? Rites of Banishment does, but that's different than what Purifiers has.

It really doesn't matter anyway. There's still no use for Purifiers if that's their only adjustment.

Debatable. The odds of getting a squad within 3" to 6" is much lower than 3 squads within 6" to 12". There are other things that have to happen to make that worthwhile, but we don't have that info yet. (If they don't do points in the FAQ then it may not be until CA)

Just saw this on 4chan. I think this means the brokenness of scryerskull is a thing of the past now. Hopefully more things that are broken will be fixed (looking at you, poxwalkers).

 Xenomancers wrote:

Ash87 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ash87 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
45 days late because hive tyrants?!?!?! And they expect what with their codex faqs? No way any of them will be useful if it takes 45 days to fix hive tyrants

Hello, welcome to Tau Hell... where we've also been waiting on our Codex FAQ, for a month now

Do you think sheild drones will survive this FAQ - if it ever does come? Even as a tau player I kind of feel like I am cheating when I use them.

I mean, the shield drone changes have been in place for a minute now, these were the changes we saw back from Index 2 just now printed in the Codex. I think they'll be fine because they have 0 offensive capability.

I will say, I had a hilarious time the other day preventing someone from using a Forgefiend by continually charging it with shield drones, shrugging off the overwatch, and preventing it from shooting for 2 battle rounds.

 Ordana wrote:

Ash87 wrote:
Would be nice to at least get a timetable here from GW.

I don't even care if it's going to be like, a Summer FAQ at this point, as long as I know a vague guesstimate.

That's always extremely frustrating because I've been sitting here for multiple weeks now going: "Should I play this week, or just wait?"

Why on earth would a potential faq coming out stop you from playing the game you enjoy?
Hold off on buying for tournament play I can understand. but not playing?
Teh feth.

Well it's obviously not stopping me from playing, but I always worry that I need to rejig my lists as Is, the added uncertainty of having to change them all because of FAQs is just that much more added in.

The wording significantly changed with savior protocols. It used to allocate wounds - now it allocates hits. Where by you can intercept las cannons for a single mortal wound but shield drones have a 5+FNP. I think it's exceptionally broken. Almost to the point that shooting armies will automatically lose to tau unless they have tons of indirect fire to target the drones first.

It used to guarantee the hit was intercepted AND allowed the drone to take its saving roll. This meant T'au could have their cake and eat it too. Offensive output with gun drones that were as resilient to anti-infantry weaponry as shield drones. That was a bit much.

Now, it's entirely guaranteed casualties on gun and marker drones, and a one third chance on shield drones. For an army that can't engage in the psychic or assault phases, that type of durability is necessary, and the counterplay of opponents targeting them is too.

 CaptainBetts wrote:
Just saw this on 4chan. I think this means the brokenness of scryerskull is a thing of the past now. Hopefully more things that are broken will be fixed (looking at you, poxwalkers).

Spoiler:

Why was that overpowered? I have never seen anyone have occasion to use it. I guess it depends on the missions you play.

I also can't tell how it's different?

Use this Stratagem at any time to do one of the following:
reveal D3 hidden set-up markers (if your opponent is
using Concealed Deployment); identify a Mysterious
Objective anywhere on the battlefield; or shoot with an
ADEPTUS MECHANICUS unit from your army without
the penalties to your hit rolls from the Dawn Raid, Low
Visibility or Cover of Darkness rules.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 CaptainBetts wrote:
Just saw this on 4chan. I think this means the brokenness of scryerskull is a thing of the past now. Hopefully more things that are broken will be fixed (looking at you, poxwalkers).

Spoiler:

Why was that overpowered? I have never seen anyone have occasion to use it. I guess it depends on the missions you play.

I also can't tell how it's different?

Use this Stratagem at any time to do one of the following:
reveal D3 hidden set-up markers (if your opponent is
using Concealed Deployment); identify a Mysterious
Objective anywhere on the battlefield; or shoot with an
ADEPTUS MECHANICUS unit from your army without
the penalties to your hit rolls from the Dawn Raid, Low
Visibility or Cover of Darkness rules.

It used to be worded to allow a shooting attack, or some argued.

Ok, those look official.

Sooo... the 4chan rumour of 0-3 for any given unit is... real?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 CaptainBetts wrote:
Just saw this on 4chan. I think this means the brokenness of scryerskull is a thing of the past now. Hopefully more things that are broken will be fixed (looking at you, poxwalkers).

Spoiler:

Why was that overpowered? I have never seen anyone have occasion to use it. I guess it depends on the missions you play.

I also can't tell how it's different?

Use this Stratagem at any time to do one of the following:
reveal D3 hidden set-up markers (if your opponent is
using Concealed Deployment); identify a Mysterious
Objective anywhere on the battlefield; or shoot with an
ADEPTUS MECHANICUS unit from your army without
the penalties to your hit rolls from the Dawn Raid, Low
Visibility or Cover of Darkness rules.

People were using it in stupid ways. They took it to mean:

"Spend 1CP to shoot with an ADEPTUS MECHANICUS unit from your army without the penalties to your hit rolls from the Dawn Raid, Low Visibility or Cover of Darkness rules."

i.e.

"Spend 1CP to shoot with an ADEPTUS MECHANICUS unit from your army" (And ignore any hit penalties if you had them).

So people were shooting as many times as they had CP with dakkabots in the deploment phase or whatnot.

Stupid interpretation I know, but they had to cover it.