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I like the FAQ's.

Lots of hyperbole and whining on here, but really overall they're good. Sorry to you folks who purchased a billion of a single large model.... hopefully ya'll borrowed most of em.

 Zid wrote:
I like the FAQ's.

Lots of hyperbole and whining on here, but really overall they're good. Sorry to you folks who purchased a billion of a single large model.... hopefully ya'll borrowed most of em.

Even with 0-3 you can still take 12 Leman russes and 9 Bassilisks and a slew of other things

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Zid wrote:
I like the FAQ's.

Lots of hyperbole and whining on here, but really overall they're good. Sorry to you folks who purchased a billion of a single large model.... hopefully ya'll borrowed most of em.

Even with 0-3 you can still take 12 Leman russes and 9 Bassilisks and a slew of other things

While technically correct, I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone take this many. Usually it's ~5 or 6 LRBTs or the like, and one tank commander.

Ice_can wrote:
I did but who's going to give up a full detachment to field a minimum of 3 assasins? As you have yo make a legal vanguard detachment without an HQ. Such a bizarre way to solve the problem.

Two Eversors and a Callidus is a perfectly competative detachment, not needing to fork out for a HQ is a buff, and given the CP for a Brigade and a Batallion has gone up, you'll likely have more, not less command points afterwards.

Seems good to me?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Zid wrote:
I like the FAQ's.

Lots of hyperbole and whining on here, but really overall they're good. Sorry to you folks who purchased a billion of a single large model.... hopefully ya'll borrowed most of em.

Even with 0-3 you can still take 12 Leman russes and 9 Bassilisks and a slew of other things

While technically correct, I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone take this many. Usually it's ~5 or 6 LRBTs or the like, and one tank commander.

Hence why the limits are a bad idea. the ENTIRE faq left guard untouched and hamped ways to counter it. Literally none of the core issues were addressed, instead they took nearly a month longer than promised to hand us half thought out bandaids that will do nothing but make the balance WORSE.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Zid wrote:
I like the FAQ's.

Lots of hyperbole and whining on here, but really overall they're good. Sorry to you folks who purchased a billion of a single large model.... hopefully ya'll borrowed most of em.

Even with 0-3 you can still take 12 Leman russes and 9 Bassilisks and a slew of other things

While technically correct, I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone take this many. Usually it's ~5 or 6 LRBTs or the like, and one tank commander.

Hence why the limits are a bad idea. the ENTIRE faq left guard untouched and hamped ways to counter it.

Yes, guard are indisputably going to be better after this.

They totally needed that.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Hence why the limits are a bad idea. the ENTIRE faq left guard untouched and hamped ways to counter it.

OTOH mortar spam is limited. I'd like to see the lists shake out first.

Meanwhile i'm going ebay hunting tonight.

Honestly though mono guard was hardly great prior to this. I haven’t lost to guard since their CA time frame nerfs. There are still units that are a threat to guard, scout style moves got a “buff” due the this change, as did pregame “infiltrate” abilities”

Breng77 wrote:
Honestly though mono guard was hardly great prior to this. I haven’t lost to guard since their CA time frame nerfs. There are still units that are a threat to guard, scout style moves got a “buff” due the this change, as did pregame “infiltrate” abilities”

I just accept the IG hate and move on - engaging them is pointless...

Tzaangors got crushed by the change to warptime-type moves. On one hand the spiteful bitch in me is happy to see the birdgoatmen get their comeuppance but on the other hand it's kinda sad that Thousand Sons will be totally out of the meta after this.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Tzaangors got crushed by the change to warptime-type moves. On one hand the spiteful bitch in me is happy to see the birdgoatmen get their comeuppance but on the other hand it's kinda sad that Thousand Sons will be totally out of the meta after this.

We're not out at all. Tzaangor bombs were bs crutches that didn't actually win that many games.

Having a hard time understanding how soup was fixed. maybe I just don't understand fully the difference between Soup and Battery armies.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Having a hard time understanding how soup was fixed. maybe I just don't understand fully the difference between Soup and Battery armies.

In general it was not in the ways we know it. You just can't take a mish mash detachment anymore, which makes it a little harder for some lists to get all the tools.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Having a hard time understanding how soup was fixed. maybe I just don't understand fully the difference between Soup and Battery armies.

In general it was not in the ways we know it. You just can't take a mish mash detachment anymore, which makes it a little harder for some lists to get all the tools.

RIP celestine.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Tzaangors got crushed by the change to warptime-type moves. On one hand the spiteful bitch in me is happy to see the birdgoatmen get their comeuppance but on the other hand it's kinda sad that Thousand Sons will be totally out of the meta after this.

We're not out at all. Tzaangor bombs were bs crutches that didn't actually win that many games.

The only blip on the radar that Thousand Sons have made is the exact "Ahriman, DPoT, and some tzaangors" detachment in a Chaos Soup list that I predicted would be all the codex would amount to. I'll take results over your stubborn positivity any day, Daedalus.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Having a hard time understanding how soup was fixed. maybe I just don't understand fully the difference between Soup and Battery armies.

In general it was not in the ways we know it. You just can't take a mish mash detachment anymore, which makes it a little harder for some lists to get all the tools.

RIP celestine.

Use an Aux.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Having a hard time understanding how soup was fixed. maybe I just don't understand fully the difference between Soup and Battery armies.

In general it was not in the ways we know it. You just can't take a mish mash detachment anymore, which makes it a little harder for some lists to get all the tools.

RIP celestine.

Use an Aux.

Oh, right, yes, I'm sure people will be perfectly happy compressing their existing 3 detachments into 2, just so they can keep using Celestine. At least they got more CP to offset having to pay one.

Or take her with some actual sisters, but yeah we’ll see less Celestine.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Having a hard time understanding how soup was fixed. maybe I just don't understand fully the difference between Soup and Battery armies.

In general it was not in the ways we know it. You just can't take a mish mash detachment anymore, which makes it a little harder for some lists to get all the tools.

RIP celestine.

Use an Aux.

See that's what I'm not understanding with +12 CP for a Brigade and 2 detachments to add whatever you like you can still abuse the game with 17 CP easily. So what if you don't get +3 for battle forged. Please find the fault in my logic.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

See that's what I'm not understanding with +12 CP for a Brigade and 2 detachments to add whatever you like you can still abuse the game with 17 CP easily. So what if you don't get +3 for battle forged. Please find the fault in my logic.

So you're saying it's not a problem whatsoever - great- let's move on then.

Look its not going to fix everything, or even most of everything, but its something. I think it is hard to argue that these changes are going to make things worse (though several have tried already), and it has clearly forced a fairly significant meta shift, at least in some ways. Can see why people are disappointed, but it made things better however nominally, and progress is progress. Even if it brought the top tier to average list differential from 35% to 30 or 25% we will start to feel it in the meta. And hopefully they will build on this with CA2018.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Zid wrote:
I like the FAQ's.

Lots of hyperbole and whining on here, but really overall they're good. Sorry to you folks who purchased a billion of a single large model.... hopefully ya'll borrowed most of em.

Even with 0-3 you can still take 12 Leman russes and 9 Bassilisks and a slew of other things

While technically correct, I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone take this many. Usually it's ~5 or 6 LRBTs or the like, and one tank commander.

Hence why the limits are a bad idea. the ENTIRE faq left guard untouched and hamped ways to counter it. Literally none of the core issues were addressed, instead they took nearly a month longer than promised to hand us half thought out bandaids that will do nothing but make the balance WORSE.

Because Guard, as a whole, hasn't been "overpowered" since the Conscripts nerf... they have been good, but are usually relegated to a detachment for Command Points for things like Custodes.

We'll have to see, I don't think this will break much TBH. Just have to see how it shakes out. I don't see people complaining Tau are OP, and they have a much more diverse dex than AM.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
See that's what I'm not understanding with +12 CP for a Brigade and 2 detachments to add whatever you like you can still abuse the game with 17 CP easily. So what if you don't get +3 for battle forged. Please find the fault in my logic.

Why are you losing the 3 CP? If you have 3 detachments that have imperium in their key words you're still good to go. All the new rule did, is in effect, limit players to 3 Codices max (counting FW as the same codex as its base).

 Zid wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Zid wrote:
I like the FAQ's.

Lots of hyperbole and whining on here, but really overall they're good. Sorry to you folks who purchased a billion of a single large model.... hopefully ya'll borrowed most of em.

Even with 0-3 you can still take 12 Leman russes and 9 Bassilisks and a slew of other things

While technically correct, I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone take this many. Usually it's ~5 or 6 LRBTs or the like, and one tank commander.

Hence why the limits are a bad idea. the ENTIRE faq left guard untouched and hamped ways to counter it. Literally none of the core issues were addressed, instead they took nearly a month longer than promised to hand us half thought out bandaids that will do nothing but make the balance WORSE.

Because Guard, as a whole, hasn't been "overpowered" since the Conscripts nerf... they have been good, but are usually relegated to a detachment for Command Points for things like Custodes.

We'll have to see, I don't think this will break much TBH. Just have to see how it shakes out. I don't see people complaining Tau are OP, and they have a much more diverse dex than AM.

Not realy index TAU was overcosted and while a lot got cheaper going to codex, it was only enough to balance them. Not drop them down to undercosted, they also lack all the ignore line of sight shenanigans that Guard can pull. They are also extermely vulnerable as to MW spam.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
See that's what I'm not understanding with +12 CP for a Brigade and 2 detachments to add whatever you like you can still abuse the game with 17 CP easily. So what if you don't get +3 for battle forged. Please find the fault in my logic.

Why are you losing the 3 CP? If you have 3 detachments that have imperium in their key words you're still good to go. All the new rule did, is in effect, limit players to 3 Codices max (counting FW as the same codex as its base).

Most "game breaking" or "Overpowered" strategems are limited as it is... are there any specific strategems that now will break the game so hard with that many CP? Most armies will just be using these to reroll a dice a phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:

 Zid wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Zid wrote:
I like the FAQ's.

Lots of hyperbole and whining on here, but really overall they're good. Sorry to you folks who purchased a billion of a single large model.... hopefully ya'll borrowed most of em.

Even with 0-3 you can still take 12 Leman russes and 9 Bassilisks and a slew of other things

While technically correct, I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone take this many. Usually it's ~5 or 6 LRBTs or the like, and one tank commander.

Hence why the limits are a bad idea. the ENTIRE faq left guard untouched and hamped ways to counter it. Literally none of the core issues were addressed, instead they took nearly a month longer than promised to hand us half thought out bandaids that will do nothing but make the balance WORSE.

Because Guard, as a whole, hasn't been "overpowered" since the Conscripts nerf... they have been good, but are usually relegated to a detachment for Command Points for things like Custodes.

We'll have to see, I don't think this will break much TBH. Just have to see how it shakes out. I don't see people complaining Tau are OP, and they have a much more diverse dex than AM.

Not realy index TAU was overcosted and while a lot got cheaper going to codex, it was only enough to balance them. Not drop them down to undercosted, they also lack all the ignore line of sight shenanigans that Guard can pull. They are also vulnerable as hell to MW spam.

Which the Smite beta limited greatly, only a few armies can apply a lot of mortal wounds (generally Nurgle). Guard have a few guns that can shoot ignoring LOS, as do Death Guard, and a few other armies (Nids). But really, how are they now overpowered compared to others? This is what I fail to see.

 Zid wrote:
Most "game breaking" or "Overpowered" strategems are limited as it is... are there any specific strategems that now will break the game so hard with that many CP? Most armies will just be using these to reroll a dice a phase.

Endless Cacophony on my Slaanesh Obliterators. They will be arriving from reserves turn 2 and firing twice. Then again on turn 3. Then again on turn 4.

Seriously, my main Chaos list now has 20 CPs. With the ToT nerf, not sure what else I would use the points for.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
See that's what I'm not understanding with +12 CP for a Brigade and 2 detachments to add whatever you like you can still abuse the game with 17 CP easily. So what if you don't get +3 for battle forged. Please find the fault in my logic.

Why are you losing the 3 CP? If you have 3 detachments that have imperium in their key words you're still good to go. All the new rule did, is in effect, limit players to 3 Codices max (counting FW as the same codex as its base).

In the Beta rules you would lose battle-forged for Imperium. But as stated it doesn’t matter, you gain an additional 3 for brigade, and 2 for Battalion. Meaning nothing is lost to the top tier lists.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
See that's what I'm not understanding with +12 CP for a Brigade and 2 detachments to add whatever you like you can still abuse the game with 17 CP easily. So what if you don't get +3 for battle forged. Please find the fault in my logic.

Why are you losing the 3 CP? If you have 3 detachments that have imperium in their key words you're still good to go. All the new rule did, is in effect, limit players to 3 Codices max (counting FW as the same codex as its base).

In the Beta rules you would lose battle-forged for Imperium. But as stated it doesn’t matter, you gain an additional 3 for brigade, and 2 for Battalion. Meaning nothing is lost to the top tier lists.

What? No, it doesn't say you lose 3 CP for Imperium. The restriction has nothing to do with armies - it's merely detachments that cannot mix units now. Armies can still freely mix detachments.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

In the Beta rules you would lose battle-forged for Imperium.

No, Imperium still counts for the army, so a Space Marine Detachment, Guard Detachment and SoB Detachment is still a Battle Forged army