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 fraser1191 wrote:
you dont even need to lug around the BrB if you got that little pamphlet

Except if you want to use missions, FOCs, strategems and various other rules that only come in the big book...

 Grimtuff wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
you dont even need to lug around the BrB if you got that little pamphlet

Except if you want to use missions, FOCs, strategems and various other rules that only come in the big book...

The BRB missions are garbage compared to the CA2017 ones, there are literally 3 stratagems in the big book ("command re-roll, the interrupt one, and the auto-pass morale one, the latter two costing 2cp"), and the FOCs are easy as hell to remember. The only one I can't quite pick up off the top of my head is the Fortification one but I'm still fairly certain it's one fort for +0 CP like the Super-Heavy Auxiliary.

The strategems are also repeated in every datacard set.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
you dont even need to lug around the BrB if you got that little pamphlet

Except if you want to use missions, FOCs, strategems and various other rules that only come in the big book...

The BRB missions are garbage compared to the CA2017 ones, there are literally 3 stratagems in the big book ("command re-roll, the interrupt one, and the auto-pass morale one, the latter two costing 2cp"), and the FOCs are easy as hell to remember. The only one I can't quite pick up off the top of my head is the Fortification one but I'm still fairly certain it's one fort for +0 CP like the Super-Heavy Auxiliary.

Irrelevant. Just because you can remember them doesn't make my point any less valid. Many places will require you to have a rulebook. You can't just turn up and go "Honest guv, this is what comprises a Vanguard detachment.".

GW desperately need to release a mini rulebook, yes technically they have, but in typical GW fashion it was only in the super limited edition copy that cost like £300.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
you dont even need to lug around the BrB if you got that little pamphlet

Except if you want to use missions, FOCs, strategems and various other rules that only come in the big book...

The BRB missions are garbage compared to the CA2017 ones, there are literally 3 stratagems in the big book ("command re-roll, the interrupt one, and the auto-pass morale one, the latter two costing 2cp"), and the FOCs are easy as hell to remember. The only one I can't quite pick up off the top of my head is the Fortification one but I'm still fairly certain it's one fort for +0 CP like the Super-Heavy Auxiliary.

That's all well and good until someone remembers one of those rules differently.

Or when you need to know the exact words and not just the gist of the rule.

I mean, I can usually remember the rules for my entire codex (or at least the bits of it I actually use), but I still bring it along. Because if my opponent disputes something, I need to have the actual rule to show him. I can't just rely on 'I've got a good memory, just take my word for it, okay?'

If your opponent is disputing BRB detachments and insisting you have the rulebook on hand to show them.... can't you just ask to borrow theirs?

 LunarSol wrote:
If your opponent is disputing BRB detachments and insisting you have the rulebook on hand to show them.... can't you just ask to borrow theirs?

Are are TFG out there who will refuse to share, and if you're in a tourney you probably should have your own copy anyways. That said, having a BRB on hand isn't exactly a new thing. We've had to have one around as far back as I can remember.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
If your opponent is disputing BRB detachments and insisting you have the rulebook on hand to show them.... can't you just ask to borrow theirs?

Are are TFG out there who will refuse to share.

Unless they are literally the only person you can play against why would you play someone like that?

 Sim-Life wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
If your opponent is disputing BRB detachments and insisting you have the rulebook on hand to show them.... can't you just ask to borrow theirs?

Are are TFG out there who will refuse to share.

Unless they are literally the only person you can play against why would you play someone like that?

Tournaments.

 LunarSol wrote:
If your opponent is disputing BRB detachments and insisting you have the rulebook on hand to show them.... can't you just ask to borrow theirs?

What if neither of you have them because you were both going with the pamphlet idea and relying on memory for the rulebook strategies and detachments?

Or is the plan to avoid taking your own BRB and just hoping that your opponent brought one even though you couldn't be bothered?

I mean, I'm fairly certain you can literally google the detachment contents, though not sure that flys at a tournament.

I feel silly saying it, but people seem to forget: every day gaming != tournaments.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, I'm fairly certain you can literally google the detachment contents, though not sure that flys at a tournament.

I feel silly saying it, but people seem to forget: every day gaming != tournaments.

While true that not every game is a tournament, I've always found it to be a good practice to bring every book I need or might need for my army. That includes the BRB because who know who actually bothers bringing one when you need it otherwise.

I'm no boy scout but being prepared is never a bad motto.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, I'm fairly certain you can literally google the detachment contents, though not sure that flys at a tournament.

I feel silly saying it, but people seem to forget: every day gaming != tournaments.

Not on Dakka me ol' son. In these parts people ONLY play tournaments. Casual play doesn't exist here.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, I'm fairly certain you can literally google the detachment contents, though not sure that flys at a tournament.

I feel silly saying it, but people seem to forget: every day gaming != tournaments.

While true that not every game is a tournament, I've always found it to be a good practice to bring every book I need or might need for my army. That includes the BRB because who know who actually bothers bringing one when you need it otherwise.

I'm no boy scout but being prepared is never a bad motto.

Me too, actually, and I used to bring my BRB to every game...

...before I lost it. And I don't know when I lost it, because I haven't needed or looked for it for months, until yesterday. Yesterday was when I looked for it in my 40k stuff bag, and couldn't find it. I think I may have lost it at the store's 40k Christmas Party, way back in December. It's been almost two months since, and before I've even noticed it was gone, and I play at least twice a week. And the reason I was looking for it? To remove it from my 40k stuff bag because I thought it'd lighten the load, because I haven't needed it.

I literally didn't notice it was gone, playing twice weekly. The BRB is utterly unnecessary to play the game.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, I'm fairly certain you can literally google the detachment contents, though not sure that flys at a tournament.

Are you talking about googleing it beforehand or when the disagreement comes up? If the former, I'm not seeing how it solves anything. Knowing you're right doesn't help unless you can actually back it up (since you're opponent is liable to be equally sure that he's the one remembering it correctly).

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I feel silly saying it, but people seem to forget: every day gaming != tournaments.

Surprising as this might sound, disagreements aren't confined to tournaments.


Also, maybe I'm just old fashioned, but just trying to use the internet on my current phone is a nightmare. Let's just say that I wouldn't want to have to rely on it to solve a rules query in a reasonable time frame.

 vipoid wrote:

Also, maybe I'm just old fashioned, but just trying to use the internet on my current phone is a nightmare. Let's just say that I wouldn't want to have to rely on it to solve a rules query in a reasonable time frame.

You're old fashioned. I literally hold the phone up to my face, and then it comes on. I then say "Okay, google, show me the warhammer 40k detachments" and it shows me the warhammer 40k detachments.

My phone is a flip phone because it was super cheap and I could spend more money on my 40k projects. >_>

 ClockworkZion wrote:
My phone is a flip phone because it was super cheap and I could spend more money on my 40k projects. >_>

Jesus, lol. The company I work for dropped support for flip phones from it's IT department altogether. You're behind corporate bureaucracy lol.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
My phone is a flip phone because it was super cheap and I could spend more money on my 40k projects. >_>

Jesus, lol. The company I work for dropped support for flip phones from it's IT department altogether. You're behind corporate bureaucracy lol.

Nah. I just wanted my phone to be cheap because all I use it for is to make calls. I buy minutes once a year and spent a whole $15 on the phone itself. I use it to make calls and prefer to use real books for rules because it's easier to flip back and forth through them as needed.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
My phone is a flip phone because it was super cheap and I could spend more money on my 40k projects. >_>

Jesus, lol. The company I work for dropped support for flip phones from it's IT department altogether. You're behind corporate bureaucracy lol.

Nah. I just wanted my phone to be cheap because all I use it for is to make calls. I buy minutes once a year and spent a whole $15 on the phone itself. I use it to make calls and prefer to use real books for rules because it's easier to flip back and forth through them as needed.

I prefer to use real books too but holy hell I need my phone. My workplace uses different phone apps to schedule meetings and communicate, my girlfriend video-calls me regularly, and I use it as VOIP with the discord app over the data so I don't have to use my home wireless for VOIP while gaming.

This all gets easier if you just switch to ebooks. I had a little tray with wheels I put my army on top of. I put a tablet on the middle shelf. Someone wants to know a rule, tablet and ebook come up and theeeere you go.

 vipoid wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
If your opponent is disputing BRB detachments and insisting you have the rulebook on hand to show them.... can't you just ask to borrow theirs?

What if neither of you have them because you were both going with the pamphlet idea and relying on memory for the rulebook strategies and detachments?

Or is the plan to avoid taking your own BRB and just hoping that your opponent brought one even though you couldn't be bothered?

If my opponent is going to be TFG and argue he doesn't know off hand the rules for "take 3 of a thing and an HQ for +1 CP" to try and get me DQ'd for not having a rulebook, I'll sure demand to see their rulebook that explains how battalion works in kind. Frankly if the community is that ridiculously toxic its not worth my time to participate anyway. There are far better games to play in tournaments and far better ways to spend 3 hours than arguing with someone intent on winning via technicality. I expect better of my opponents and the rest of the community should too.

 LunarSol wrote:

If my opponent is going to be TFG and argue he doesn't know off hand the rules for "take 3 of a thing and an HQ for +1 CP" to try and get me DQ'd for not having a rulebook, I'll sure demand to see their rulebook that explains how battalion works in kind.

You keep bringing up detachments, but I never actually mentioned those.

If anything, it seems that you're far more likely to get into a rules disagreement relating to stratagems. I know there are only a few in the rulebook, but the reroll one is popular and the combat one is pretty easy to misread/misinterpret. Not to mention one of you could misremember the cost of a given stratagem.

But apparently any disagreement whatsoever makes your opponent TFG... even if you're the one who's wrong and you couldn't be bothered bringing the necessary rulebook.

 vipoid wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

If my opponent is going to be TFG and argue he doesn't know off hand the rules for "take 3 of a thing and an HQ for +1 CP" to try and get me DQ'd for not having a rulebook, I'll sure demand to see their rulebook that explains how battalion works in kind.

You keep bringing up detachments, but I never actually mentioned those.

If anything, it seems that you're far more likely to get into a rules disagreement relating to stratagems. I know there are only a few in the rulebook, but the reroll one is popular and the combat one is pretty easy to misread/misinterpret. Not to mention one of you could misremember the cost of a given stratagem.

But apparently any disagreement whatsoever makes your opponent TFG... even if you're the one who's wrong and you couldn't be bothered bringing the necessary rulebook.

You can google those stratagems too. Let me try:

"okay google, show me the 40k default stratagems" gives you a link to the warhammer community article with a photograph of all 3 stratagems, their cost, and explains how to use them.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

If my opponent is going to be TFG and argue he doesn't know off hand the rules for "take 3 of a thing and an HQ for +1 CP" to try and get me DQ'd for not having a rulebook, I'll sure demand to see their rulebook that explains how battalion works in kind.

You keep bringing up detachments, but I never actually mentioned those.

If anything, it seems that you're far more likely to get into a rules disagreement relating to stratagems. I know there are only a few in the rulebook, but the reroll one is popular and the combat one is pretty easy to misread/misinterpret. Not to mention one of you could misremember the cost of a given stratagem.

But apparently any disagreement whatsoever makes your opponent TFG... even if you're the one who's wrong and you couldn't be bothered bringing the necessary rulebook.

You can google those stratagems too. Let me try:

"okay google, show me the 40k default stratagems" gives you a link to the warhammer community article with a photograph of all 3 stratagems, their cost, and explains how to use them.

We've already had a conversation on how not everyone can just do that with their phone so let's not keep going down that rabbit trail.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

If my opponent is going to be TFG and argue he doesn't know off hand the rules for "take 3 of a thing and an HQ for +1 CP" to try and get me DQ'd for not having a rulebook, I'll sure demand to see their rulebook that explains how battalion works in kind.

You keep bringing up detachments, but I never actually mentioned those.

If anything, it seems that you're far more likely to get into a rules disagreement relating to stratagems. I know there are only a few in the rulebook, but the reroll one is popular and the combat one is pretty easy to misread/misinterpret. Not to mention one of you could misremember the cost of a given stratagem.

But apparently any disagreement whatsoever makes your opponent TFG... even if you're the one who's wrong and you couldn't be bothered bringing the necessary rulebook.

You can google those stratagems too. Let me try:

"okay google, show me the 40k default stratagems" gives you a link to the warhammer community article with a photograph of all 3 stratagems, their cost, and explains how to use them.

We've already had a conversation on how not everyone can just do that with their phone so let's not keep going down that rabbit trail.

Yes, yes, I know. There's a whole 5% of people out there that don't have google on their phones. But it shouldn't be crippling, it really shouldn't. The 40k community isn't going to come crumbling down over it.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

If my opponent is going to be TFG and argue he doesn't know off hand the rules for "take 3 of a thing and an HQ for +1 CP" to try and get me DQ'd for not having a rulebook, I'll sure demand to see their rulebook that explains how battalion works in kind.

You keep bringing up detachments, but I never actually mentioned those.

If anything, it seems that you're far more likely to get into a rules disagreement relating to stratagems. I know there are only a few in the rulebook, but the reroll one is popular and the combat one is pretty easy to misread/misinterpret. Not to mention one of you could misremember the cost of a given stratagem.

But apparently any disagreement whatsoever makes your opponent TFG... even if you're the one who's wrong and you couldn't be bothered bringing the necessary rulebook.

You can google those stratagems too. Let me try:

"okay google, show me the 40k default stratagems" gives you a link to the warhammer community article with a photograph of all 3 stratagems, their cost, and explains how to use them.

We've already had a conversation on how not everyone can just do that with their phone so let's not keep going down that rabbit trail.

Yes, yes, I know. There's a whole 5% of people out there that don't have google on their phones. But it shouldn't be crippling, it really shouldn't. The 40k community isn't going to come crumbling down over it.

Your whole post is just ridiculous. Not everyone has a smart phone (some people don't get them because they don't need them or want to be locked into expensive plans) just like not everyone has a tablet. What works for you isn't a universal solution for everyone.

 vipoid wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

If my opponent is going to be TFG and argue he doesn't know off hand the rules for "take 3 of a thing and an HQ for +1 CP" to try and get me DQ'd for not having a rulebook, I'll sure demand to see their rulebook that explains how battalion works in kind.

You keep bringing up detachments, but I never actually mentioned those.

If anything, it seems that you're far more likely to get into a rules disagreement relating to stratagems. I know there are only a few in the rulebook, but the reroll one is popular and the combat one is pretty easy to misread/misinterpret. Not to mention one of you could misremember the cost of a given stratagem.

But apparently any disagreement whatsoever makes your opponent TFG... even if you're the one who's wrong and you couldn't be bothered bringing the necessary rulebook.

Okay, so my opponent gets to play without rerolls too. Cool beans.

Edit: The point is if someone is going to demand I have the book on hand to use a common knowledge feature they’d better have the book on hand to do the same. If someone honestly has the book on hand and won’t use it to resolve a dispute over something nobody really doesn’t understand, they are almost certainly TFG.

I play casual, burnt out my competitive nature playing tournaments from 3rd edition up until 5th. Now I just want to push models around making pew pew noises while rolling dice. The rules are scattered around too many places, and layed out in a fashion that is far from user friendly.

The main rule book also has a lot more than just 3 stratagems, a lot more. I think each of the narrative missions have 6 unique ones. So the BRB is needed, not everyone plays Matched play exclusively.

I don't even own a phone.
Not even a flip phone.

Yay for being part of the 5%...? Unless you want me to look the rules up on my landline, or something.