Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
@Nerak. The necrons completly won the war against the eldar, old ones, orks. The eldar were not yet the full eldar yet and the orks were the orukk or whatever their precursor was called.
The necrons decided to nap after total domination of the galaxy because they wanted to wake up when their kingdom recovered.
@solar powered chainsword
The nids take all the gasses and all the everything. It doesnt make sense. Its what happens though. When somone sees a world devoured by the nids its just hollowed out dead rock. The air is gone. The fluid is gone. Everything is gone. If gaus turned nids into a bunch or atoms drifting off as gas that gas would be collected.
If the necron exploded its atoms still exist.
If the necron teleported its tombs would still be invaded.
Its dimb, yes. 40ks fluff is real dumb. But thats the nids.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
What? That makes no sense. The Eldar and Orks were still around and both had the capacity to take control of the galaxy. Why on earth would you then leave them to it?
The only reason for Necrons to sleep is because they lost their war for some reason.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Because at the time the orks and eldar were NOT capable of taking over the galaxy. They were just 2 of the great many lower races all over the galaxy. They litteraly were not on the crons radar when they went to sleep.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
My mistake. I think I confused the lore with the text-to-speech thing on youtube. Sometimes one remmembers the silly (but rather entertaining) videos instead of the actual stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/27 22:57:43
His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary.
Lance845 wrote: Because at the time the orks and eldar were NOT capable of taking over the galaxy. They were just 2 of the great many lower races all over the galaxy. They litteraly were not on the crons radar when they went to sleep.
Even so why leave? Why just leave things alone when you could actually do something proactive to help restore your empire?
I can understand the Necrons winning but not the sleeping part. They just don't seem to go together. It made sense to me with the oldcrons when their food was eliminated by Enslavers but now it's just weird. We've won but we're just going to abandon everything.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Necrons went to bed because they were too weak after the Civil War with C'tan
And it's hard to say who won the war. The old ones were destroyed only because of the appearance of the Enslaver (it is still the canon), but the Eldar remained and could fight.
But if there was nobody else around to seriously challenge them then who were they too weak to face?
Right now they're incredibly strong so what changed?
There are just so many things that don't make sense.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: But if there was nobody else around to seriously challenge them then who were they too weak to face?
Right now they're incredibly strong so what changed?
There are just so many things that don't make sense.
They reached their preset kill quota. obviously.
stop trying to inject logic into it otherwise literally all of 40k breaks.
We can only really say that the Necron, Eldar, and Orks survived both the War in Heaven and the Enslaver Plague. Old ones created a bunch of warp sensitive races and as the war raged on their warp haven became twisted due to the emotional echoes of the embattled races they created. All manner of violent beasties emerged in the warp causing the old ones to lose ground in what was once their own sanctuary dimension. The Enslaver Plague was the last straw. Unsure if all the old ones died or if survivors just up and left. This marked the end of the War in Heaven. Necrons revolted against their ctan masters and succeeded. Meanwhile all the life created by the Old One's were getting slaughtered into extinction with the Enslave Plague going wildly out of control. The weakened Necrons, finally free from Ctan, looked at the galaxy and said 'nope' then took a nap to wait out till the galaxy life recovered (then act emo when they find 'squatters'). I don't recall ever finding fluff on how the Eldar and Orks survived but they did despite many others not making it.
pm713 wrote: But if there was nobody else around to seriously challenge them then who were they too weak to face?
Right now they're incredibly strong so what changed?
There are just so many things that don't make sense.
They reached their preset kill quota. obviously.
stop trying to inject logic into it otherwise literally all of 40k breaks.
Normally I'm really good at avoiding the logic. But this is just bothers me more because oldcrons had a good enough explanation behind why they went to sleep then Matt Ward came along and Warded over it all.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Because the silent king saw what they became and what it did to the galaxy. He wanted the galaxy to recover. All necrons everywhere were slaves to the silent kings will. He ordered the great sleep, ended their slave protocols to himself so they could regain some free will, and exiled himself out of the galaxy. The hope was that the dynastys would awaken to a reborn galaxy where they could rule justly.
Then in the coid he saw the nids. Went... Fuuuuuuuck... And turned around to try to warn everyone. He didnt expect that the crons would go insane from the great sleep or that the galaxy would be such a massive gak hole when they woke up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It was the decision of one guy who was trying to let the galaxy self correct in their absence. Not the choice of the whole race.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/28 00:46:00
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
pm713 wrote: Even with that you could've stayed awake to heal the galaxy. It feels like a bad patch on a decent original reason.
Could they? millions of years of doing gak all would probably drive them insane anyway. im guess Sking's plan would of been doomed from the start.
Take shifts. They could just do it as a method of ensure all worlds are at x level of stability or whatever then sleep for a few thousand years then wake up, check and either fix or sleep. Plus they're robots so they could just live in VR or something to relieve stress.
The whole thing is ridiculous.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Another explanation for the Tyranid energy needs is that Tyranids use fusion reactors. The Tyranids after all already consume entire oceans which should be full of deuterium. And they already are capable of generating bioplasma.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/28 01:38:43
The only reason that would make sense to me would be the Necrons saw that the War in Heaven was empowering the warp, which was bad, so they decided to sleep, confident the Enslavers would consume all material life, and the warp would then slowly get calm again afterwards. They didn't count on the Eldar surviving, the Kroak (orks) surviving, the fall of the Eldar and birth of Slaneesh, then the expansion of mankind and finally mankind's evolution into a psychic race. The warp is now much worse than when the Necrons went to sleep, and with the Tyranids bearing down, the only way to 'save' the galaxy from becoming one gigantic warp storm is for the Necrons to wake up and kick the crap out of everything.
John Prins wrote: The only reason that would make sense to me would be the Necrons saw that the War in Heaven was empowering the warp, which was bad, so they decided to sleep, confident the Enslavers would consume all material life, and the warp would then slowly get calm again afterwards. They didn't count on the Eldar surviving, the Kroak (orks) surviving, the fall of the Eldar and birth of Slaneesh, then the expansion of mankind and finally mankind's evolution into a psychic race. The warp is now much worse than when the Necrons went to sleep, and with the Tyranids bearing down, the only way to 'save' the galaxy from becoming one gigantic warp storm is for the Necrons to wake up and kick the crap out of everything.
Arguably the warp is only really as bad as it is because of the war in heaven. The wih makes the horus heresy look like a playground spat. It was the sheer scale of the horrors unleashed by the necrotyr and the ctan that made the warp the crap hole it is. Then killing the flayer after changed the fundamental fabric of the materium for the worse.
Basically the eldar and mankind inherited a broken universe inside and out. Their failings were only as bad as they were because the necrons broke it first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/28 19:00:59
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Thats basically what happened with Fantasy. The Old Ones broke the planet and fleed. Thats why everything was horrible. 40K does that in a galactic scale.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
pm713 wrote: But if there was nobody else around to seriously challenge them then who were they too weak to face?
Right now they're incredibly strong so what changed?
There are just so many things that don't make sense.
It doesn't make much sense, the Necron fluff is just terrible.
But they were afraid of Eldar and their gods. Eldar gods were really powerful at that period, Khaine fought and defeated Nightbringer.
pm713 wrote: But if there was nobody else around to seriously challenge them then who were they too weak to face?
Right now they're incredibly strong so what changed?
There are just so many things that don't make sense.
It doesn't make much sense, the Necron fluff is just terrible.
But they were afraid of Eldar and their gods. Eldar gods were really powerful at that period, Khaine fought and defeated Nightbringer.
You are citing Eldar mythology with nothing else to support it.
The Nightbringer was feeding on all the races of the galaxy and planting a fear of death into every race. Then the Necrons defeat the C'Tan and sealed him away. The Ancient Eldar then interpreted that as a myth of their god of war defeating death.
The Crons and the C'tan have never been afraid of anything and the Eldar never put the Necrons on the run.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Still cannon, plus necrons also have black holes, starkillers, can turn off fundamental forces of nature, like the strong nuclear force. Here is a good break down of the kind of abilities the necrons can bring to bear:
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
LeviathanSwarmlord wrote: Just wanted an open discussion about all of the races lore wise, and which is the most powerful. Orks are meant to have massive numbers but due to infighting do not use them well, perhaps a powerful warboss could fix this. Tyranids seem one of the most powerful (in my rather biased opinion) as the few hive fleets that have been in the lore are supposedly a very small proportion of the actual tyranid population, and of course the imperium and chaos are both insanely powerful. So what do you guys think, anyone I have missed, who is the most powerful, and will any race ever achieve full supremacy?
In terms of territory held. Humans. In terms of numbers: Orkz. In terms of technology: Necrons.
pm713 wrote: But if there was nobody else around to seriously challenge them then who were they too weak to face?
Right now they're incredibly strong so what changed?
There are just so many things that don't make sense.
It doesn't make much sense, the Necron fluff is just terrible.
But they were afraid of Eldar and their gods. Eldar gods were really powerful at that period, Khaine fought and defeated Nightbringer.
Khaine fought a shard of the nightbringer, and for his victory he got driven mad and tainted by the C'Tan shard. The C'Tan are embodiments of fundamental aspects of reality, like when the flayer was destroyed the laws of physics changed. They aren't something as transitory as a warp deity, which is a manifestation of a collective subconscious, they have existed since the creation of the universe, and will exist until it's destroyed.
posixthreads on reddit put together this timeline of the war in heaven, and it lays it out pretty clearly (well as clearly as it can given the sometimes contradictory accounts), if you have questions I'd suggest you check it out:
pm713 wrote: But if there was nobody else around to seriously challenge them then who were they too weak to face?
Right now they're incredibly strong so what changed?
There are just so many things that don't make sense.
It doesn't make much sense, the Necron fluff is just terrible.
But they were afraid of Eldar and their gods. Eldar gods were really powerful at that period, Khaine fought and defeated Nightbringer.
You are citing Eldar mythology with nothing else to support it.
The Nightbringer was feeding on all the races of the galaxy and planting a fear of death into every race. Then the Necrons defeat the C'Tan and sealed him away. The Ancient Eldar then interpreted that as a myth of their god of war defeating death.
The Crons and the C'tan have never been afraid of anything and the Eldar never put the Necrons on the run.
This. Shadowseer Lhaerial's boasting in The Beast Arises series is just that: Boasting.
The Old Ones and their cannon fodder races got their asses handed to them in the War in Heaven. The only thing that saved the Eldar (and Orkz, Hrud, etc) was the Silent King's revolt against the C'Tan, which shattered the C'tan and weakened the Necrons. Hence, their 65 million year long nap and the Silent King's self-imposed exile, allowing the Eldar free reign in the galaxy.
When Humanity came onto the scene and united as a galactic species, the Eldar were already in decline. Mankind's star was eclipsing that of the Sphess Elfz. Regardless of Lhaerial's hollow boasting, and the account of one lost battle in the Path of the Eldar series, the lore is clear that Humanity considered the threat of the Eldar (and other xenos races) as inconsequential.
Even in the 41st Millennium, most of the Eldar's "wins" against the Necrons involved destroying Tomb Worlds. In most stand-up fights with the Necrons, the Eldar got the worst end of it.
pm713 wrote: But if there was nobody else around to seriously challenge them then who were they too weak to face?
Right now they're incredibly strong so what changed?
There are just so many things that don't make sense.
It doesn't make much sense, the Necron fluff is just terrible.
But they were afraid of Eldar and their gods. Eldar gods were really powerful at that period, Khaine fought and defeated Nightbringer.
You are citing Eldar mythology with nothing else to support it.
The Nightbringer was feeding on all the races of the galaxy and planting a fear of death into every race. Then the Necrons defeat the C'Tan and sealed him away. The Ancient Eldar then interpreted that as a myth of their god of war defeating death.
The Crons and the C'tan have never been afraid of anything and the Eldar never put the Necrons on the run.
This is quite accurate minus one detail. The orks never gained that fear. More due to death being a significant part of their reproduction , they are hardwired to not fear it.
pm713 wrote: But if there was nobody else around to seriously challenge them then who were they too weak to face?
Right now they're incredibly strong so what changed?
There are just so many things that don't make sense.
It doesn't make much sense, the Necron fluff is just terrible.
But they were afraid of Eldar and their gods. Eldar gods were really powerful at that period, Khaine fought and defeated Nightbringer.
You are citing Eldar mythology with nothing else to support it.
The Nightbringer was feeding on all the races of the galaxy and planting a fear of death into every race. Then the Necrons defeat the C'Tan and sealed him away. The Ancient Eldar then interpreted that as a myth of their god of war defeating death.
The Crons and the C'tan have never been afraid of anything and the Eldar never put the Necrons on the run.
Essentially the C'tan are Gods of the material realm, God's not in the usual GW sense of the word, but approaching Jehova level of Godhood.
In the 3rd edition Necron background they were ancient when the Necrontry were young. Now they have been sharded they have lost a lot of their power, however that isn't to say that they could reforge themselves and go back to being actual Gods, and not mere extra dimensional collections of emotions that the Chaos Gods are.
Adding the C'tan and the Old Ones in to 40k was one of the best things done by GW, as it removed the main battle from being Human Vs Chaos, and more to the fall out from an ancient war fought.
No matter what any race does in the galaxy, they are fighting over a domain that has already been destined to ruin by those who came before.
What is interesting is how the Tyranids fit into this, as they aren't native to this galaxy.
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
The Old Ones and their cannon fodder races got their asses handed to them in the War in Heaven. The only thing that saved the Eldar (and Orkz, Hrud, etc) was the Silent King's revolt against the C'Tan, which shattered the C'tan and weakened the Necrons. Hence, their 65 million year long nap and the Silent King's self-imposed exile, allowing the Eldar free reign in the galaxy.
'We totally could have beaten you, but we decided to take a nap instead.'
Likely story, bro!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/28 20:28:53
The Old Ones and their cannon fodder races got their asses handed to them in the War in Heaven. The only thing that saved the Eldar (and Orkz, Hrud, etc) was the Silent King's revolt against the C'Tan, which shattered the C'tan and weakened the Necrons. Hence, their 65 million year long nap and the Silent King's self-imposed exile, allowing the Eldar free reign in the galaxy.
'We totally could have beaten you, but we decided to take a nap instead.'
Likely story, bro!
Aside from it also being in Eldar Mythology.
Way back when the Necrons were first released ( 2nd edition) there stories in the WD about how the Eldar where warning the Imperium not to go venture on to certain planets as it would awaken the sleeping ones.
Low and begold, it did. Hence the Necrons woke up. The Eldar feared the Necrons, and rightly so.
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
