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Hi!

I know this keeps getting asked, but the rule keeps changing and the more I read the more confused I get.

What are the current character targeting rules?

Bonus question: how am I supposed to know where to look for it? Do you guys have a system for going through FAQs, or do you make your own notes or something? There's the rulebook, rulebook FAQs (multiple documents), chapter approved, chapter approved FAQ, and I seem to remember some beta rules being posted somewhere I'm struggling to find now.

I'm loving the willingness to FAQ, but the way it's being organised is hurting my brain!

From the faq and chapter approved

‘An enemy Character with a Wounds characteristic
of less than 10 can only be chosen as a target in the
Shooting phase if it is both visible to the firer and it is
the closest enemy model to the firer. This means that if any other enemy model is closer, whether it is visible or not, then the enemy CHARACTER cannot be targeted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However the "beta" rules say;

An enemy Character with a Wounds characteristic of less than 10 can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting
phase if it is both visible to the firing model and it is the closest enemy unit to the firing model. Ignore other enemy
Characters with a Wounds characteristics of less than 10 when determining if the target is the closest enemy unit to
the firing model.

This means that if any other enemy units (other than other Characters with a Wounds characteristics of less than 10)
are closer, whether they are visible or not, then the enemy Character cannot be targeted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So if you play by the official rules its the first, beta rules are the second

This question came up in a game I was in, so you cannot target a character even if there are no legal targets other than that character?

For example, I had typhus behind an ongoing melee. My opponent wanted to target him, but the melee was in front of him; so per the rules, because the poxwalkers were closer, he could not target him with shooting?

I get where they are going with the character rules (picking out a single guy in a massive army is... well, difficult). I just wish they would have kept the IC rules, made it a lot simpler

Correct even if the character is the only valid shooting target if the requirements are not met the character cannot be targeted.

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
Correct even if the character is the only valid shooting target if the requirements are not met the character cannot be targeted.

Interesting... thanks! I let him shoot Typhus in the back because his HT was like 1" closer to him, than the walkers, it was just an issue when it came to other units.

Thank you Zarroc! That's exactly what I was after.

My group are somewhat dissatisfied with the current rules, as a lot of people seem to be whatever they try!

We're considering testing two alternatives.

1)
You may not target a character with a shooting attack if they are within 3" of a an enemy unit that is not a character.

2)
You may not target a character with a shooting attack if you could draw a line between the shooting model and the target such that it passes through another enemy model.

Does anyone else have suggestions that they use, or thoughts on trying out these?

The purpose of the FAQ/Chapter Approved revised rule it to prevent Rhino-Scoping, using your own models to limit LOS to allow you to shoot a character because it is the only one you can see.

The purpose of the Beta Test rule is to avoid the Culexus Assassin Shield, where you lead a bunch of characters towards the enemy with a really hard to kill character who because the only legal target because he is the closest model.

These are both efforts to avoid the worst effects of the Character rule, while still providing characters safety from attack when there are non-character models closer to the enemy for targeting.

Stux: I don't think either of your proposals actually improves on the GW rule substantially. Option is different (stand next to a unit and your safe regardless of distance) with option 2 being actively worst (you no longer need to be anywhere near closest to be attacked).

Thank you for the input

I'll expand a little on my thinking. There's two main issues with the character rule as it stands for me though:

1) the character and the closer non-character unit that means you can't shoot the character can be in completely opposite directions.

2) the character can be the only visible target for the shooting model, and therefore the model cannot shoot at all.

Obviously the character rule was never intended to be an accurate simulation, it's a game mechanic to protect characters. However it is so counter intuitive and feel bad at times. I get that rhino scoping is a problem, but conversely it is in my mind an equal problem when a unit cannot shoot at all even when there are multiple targets in range because they're all characters and there's one unit in the other direction behind a wall.

Both the proposed rules attempt to limit the feel bad in this situation, whilst also limiting Rhino scoping or Culexus shenanigans. While I agree option 2 is actively weaker for characters, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a worse rule. It's more intuitive and has less weird corner cases imo. It just means you have to watch your positioning more.

Option 2, as written, allows you target a character that is actually behind a unit you can see. If that unit is not deployed in a very dense formation, you can draw LOS between models and *BAM* your dead. Characters will start falling like flys to well positioned Heavy Weapons.

It should at least say you cannot draw a line through a "Unit" and not just "Models".

 alextroy wrote:
Option 2, as written, allows you target a character that is actually behind a unit you can see. If that unit is not deployed in a very dense formation, you can draw LOS between models and *BAM* your dead. Characters will start falling like flys to well positioned Heavy Weapons.

It should at least say you cannot draw a line through a "Unit" and not just "Models".

The idea of the rule is if it's possible to draw a line that is interrupted by an enemy then you can't shoot the character, even if you can also draw an uninterrupted line. Of course, you wouldn't have LoS if you couldn't draw an uninterrupted line!

But perhaps you are right that it is too restrictive... I'm not sure how I would word the 'drawing a line through a unit' thing, as it would need defining in game language exactly what that means. But I'll think on it! Cheers

One thing I've wondered is, what if a character has more than 10 wounds...but then loses some? Does he suddenly start crouching down so people can't see him?

craggy wrote:
One thing I've wondered is, what if a character has more than 10 wounds...but then loses some? Does he suddenly start crouching down so people can't see him?

Of course not. Nothing changes.

That's why the rule references 'Wounds characteristic', not 'Wounds'.

p5freak wrote:

craggy wrote:
One thing I've wondered is, what if a character has more than 10 wounds...but then loses some? Does he suddenly start crouching down so people can't see him?

Of course not. Nothing changes.

Denny wrote:That's why the rule references 'Wounds characteristic', not 'Wounds'.

Ah. Thought that's how it read when 8th dropped but some of the wording recently had me thinking they'd somehow changed it, which, would be stupid, but also kinda funny.

Stux wrote:
Thank you for the input

I'll expand a little on my thinking. There's two main issues with the character rule as it stands for me though:

1) the character and the closer non-character unit that means you can't shoot the character can be in completely opposite directions.

Which if I played game at home rather than only bothering with 40k in events where official rules are I would play this that character needs to be within certain distance like 6" of unit. It's just so weird that if you have character 18" on your right and tank 17" on your left you can't shoot at the character who's standing there all alone middle of nowhere.

Funnily enough the reverse can happen. The SM Trait Iron Resolve adds one to your warlord's wound characteristic. Luckily they didn't give Gulliman access to it, but the Chaplain Dreadnought from Forge World does, is a CHARACTER, and it just so happens to have 9 wounds.

So being grumpy turns the dreadnought from an untargetable murder machine to dead in 5 seconds flat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Which if I played game at home rather than only bothering with 40k in events where official rules are I would play this that character needs to be within certain distance like 6" of unit. It's just so weird that if you have character 18" on your right and tank 17" on your left you can't shoot at the character who's standing there all alone middle of nowhere.

Agreed. It would be so much simpler if they just made the character rule "You may not target a character in the Shooting Phase that is within 3" of another friendly non-CHARACTER model, unless it is the closest model." Similar but admittedly not exactly how the old editions used to do it.

 BaconCatBug wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Which if I played game at home rather than only bothering with 40k in events where official rules are I would play this that character needs to be within certain distance like 6" of unit. It's just so weird that if you have character 18" on your right and tank 17" on your left you can't shoot at the character who's standing there all alone middle of nowhere.

Agreed. It would be so much simpler if they just made the character rule "You may not target a character in the Shooting Phase that is within 3" of another friendly, visible, non-CHARACTER model, unless it is the closest model." Similar but admittedly not exactly how the old editions used to do it.

Added the other important stipulation.

That stipulation would add rhino sniping. As long as rhino is sideways you could use it to block LOS to non-character models. (sideways because otherwise feet of shooting model would draw LOS from UNDER rhino to enemy thus not making LOS blocking work)

tneva82 wrote:
That stipulation would add rhino sniping. As long as rhino is sideways you could use it to block LOS to non-character models. (sideways because otherwise feet of shooting model would draw LOS from UNDER rhino to enemy thus not making LOS blocking work)

Then place your models getting the buff from the character in front of the character.

Either,

A) you have to intelligently screen your characters to maintain their protection

or

B) The nearest unit is on the other side of a LoS blocking wall so you cannot shoot the visible character.

I know which one I prefer!

YMDC is for current rules as they exist and how top play them correctly, as written (if possible!) - there's a Proposed Rules section for all that other stuff - thanks!