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Hi All!

I'm about to enter a tournament in two weeks and I wanted to see what you would bring to this event if you had the following restrictions:

- 1000 points maximum in 1 to 2 Detachments
- Maximum 2 units repeating outside of Troops
- No Lord of War models allowed (Baneblades, Knights, Magnus etc.)
- Forge World and Named Characters allowed

All games to be played on a 4' x 4' table with decent terrain on each.

I'll be bringing an Alpha Legion army with Cultists and Possessed. However, since I don't play competitively, I wanted to see what sort of shenanigans I could see across from me on the game board.

Alpha Legion looks like a decent shout. Two max sized units of Berzerkers deep striking with the stratagem should still do a lot of damage in this format. Competitively you may want to reconsider taking possessed though.

Battalion - Alaitoc [360 pts]

Spiritseer - 45
Warlock (conceal/reveal) - 35

5 Rangers - 60
5 Rangers - 60
20 Guardian Defenders w/ shuriken cannon platform - 175

Spearhead - Alaitoc [639 pts]

Warlock (protect/jinx) - 35

9 Dark Reapers incl. Exarch w/ aml - 246
3 Warwalkers w/ two shuriken cannons - 210
Wraithlord w/ twin shuriken catapults, two shuriken cannons - 133

Total: 999 pts.

Cadian Battalion

2x Company Commander- 30 each

3x Infantry Squad w/Lascannon Plasma Gun- 67 each

3x Infantry Squad w/Lasguns- 40 each

Platoon Commander- 20

3x Heavy Weapon Squad w/ Mortars- 33 each

Scions Battalion

2x Tempestor Prime w/Command Rod

3x 5 Scions w/2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol-whipped 78 each

2x Scion Command Squad w/4 Plasma Guns.

1000 points, 9 CP regenerating on a 5+, stealing yours on a 5+,
rerolls for days.

My meanest 1k is made difficult by the 2-duplicates rule, but I can still be pretty irritating.

Sensible version: Adeptus Custodes Patrol Detachment (997pts)
Shield-Captain, jetbike, missile launcher, Misericordia
Guard squad, 3x spears, 1x Misericordia
Vertus Praetors, 4, hurricane bolters, Misericordia
Vertus Praetors, 3, hurricane bolters, Misericordia

Silly version: Adeptus Custodes Patrol Detachment (999pts)
Shield-Captain, jetbike, hurricane bolters, Misericordia
Guard squad, 3x spears
Vertus Praetors, 4, hurricane bolters, 1x Misericordia
Caladius grav-tank

And since the Fire Raptor isn't actually a Relic you could see:

Space Marines Patrol Detachment (996pts)
Captain, bike, storm shield, thunderhammer
Intercessors, 8, bolt rifles
2x Fire Raptor, autocannons, lascannons

Chaos Space Marines Patrol Detachment (997pts)
Lord, bike, power fist
Cultists, 20, autoguns
Cultists, 19, autoguns
2x Chaos Fire Raptor, heavy bolters, missiles


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also potentially funny:

Space Marine Vanguard Detachment
Carab Culln the Risen
2x Relic Contemptor Dreadnaught, Kheres assault cannon, chainfist
Venerable Dreadnaught, twin autocannon, DCCW
Company Veterans, 3, storm bolters

(Read Red Scorpions as Iron Hands and your frontline element here is T7/T8 2+/5++ models packing three stackable 6+ FNP rolls each)

1x Warboss
1x Weirdboy (Warpath)
4x 30 Boyz /w Nob
1x Painboy
1x 3 Big Gunz /w Kannon

I doubt anyone can deal with this amount of bodies before their lines are swamped on a 4'x4' board.

Or perhaps:

1x Pask in Executioner Russ
1x Primaris Psyker
4x 10man Infantry Squads
2x Leman Russ Punisher
2x Manticore

Mega horde:

Valhalla battalion:
Company commander with Petrovs 45 - 31pts
Company commander 30pts
Astropath with psychic maelstrom 30pts
30 conscripts
30 conscripts
30 conscripts
Infantry squad with plasma gun
Infantry squad with plasma gun
Infantry squad with plasma gun

Imperial battalion
Inquisitor
Inquisitor
Scout squad with bolters
Scout squad with bolters
Scout squad with bolters
Infantry squad
Infantry squad
Infantry squad

Kill any infantry, gum up the whole board and ruffle big things with smite and psychic maelstrom. Swarm any objectives

Just played this list. It's a doozy if someone brings it to the table.

Chaos - Death Guard Battalion

+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Nurgle:
Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings
Warlord - Revoltingly Resilient

Typhus:
Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
40x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
20x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
20x Poxwalker
11x Poxwalker

+ Heavy Support +
Hellforged Scorpius:
Combi-bolter, Scorpius multi-launcher

++ Total: [60 PL, 998pts]++

The 20 man poxwalker gets the stragems The Dead Walk Again and Cloud of Flies so you treat it like a character for shooting purposes. Then you're pretty much only left with the cultists as a target, but when you kill them, they turn into pox walkers.

My first thought on reading the OP:


However, this seemed very similar to other suggestions (i.e. swap land raiders for fire raptors). If everyone's idea of mean is to take 2 of the strongest unit they have available, you will be facing some quite unbalanced lists; the meanest thing you could do is show up with a full brigade of well equipped guardsmen and have enough assets to either focus enemy units down 1 by 1, or be untouchable in objective based missions.

I think the Imperial Guard brigade would be a push for any of the other lists suggested, as you have enough of a force to play it like a 2k list rather than focusing on 1 or 2 power units.

mokoshkana wrote:
Just played this list. It's a doozy if someone brings it to the table.

Chaos - Death Guard Battalion

+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Nurgle:
Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings
Warlord - Revoltingly Resilient

Typhus:
Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
40x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
20x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
20x Poxwalker
11x Poxwalker

+ Heavy Support +
Hellforged Scorpius:
Combi-bolter, Scorpius multi-launcher

++ Total: [60 PL, 998pts]++

The 20 man poxwalker gets the stragems The Dead Walk Again and Cloud of Flies so you treat it like a character for shooting purposes. Then you're pretty much only left with the cultists as a target, but when you kill them, they turn into pox walkers.

Both of these have to be activated before casualties right? You're talking about a cost of what, 3CP per turn? I'd just wait you out.

I always find this "no repeating" or "limited repeating" outside troops bizarre. Military forces live and breathe off of redundancy so repetition is common.

Anyway, meanest 1,000 point list:

Patrol Detachment
HQ: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike
-Warlord (Radiant Mantle)
-Aurric Aquilas Relic
-Misericordia

Troop: Custodian Guard

Fast Attack: Vertus Preators (Jetbike Custodes)
-Pay for 1 extra Jetbike model, so 4 total.
-1 Misericordia

Fast Attack: Caladius Grav-Tank

Total: 999

Alaitoc Battalion:

Autarch Skyrunner w/ Reaper Launcher, Lance and Banshee mask
Spirit Seer w/ Falchou's wing & Quicken
2 units of 5 Rangers
14 Guardians w/ Shuricannon platform

5 Shining spear inc/ Exarch with Star lance
2 Hemlocks w/ Jinx
---------999pts

 Marmatag wrote:

mokoshkana wrote:
Just played this list. It's a doozy if someone brings it to the table.

Chaos - Death Guard Battalion

+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Nurgle:
Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings
Warlord - Revoltingly Resilient

Typhus:
Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
40x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
20x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
20x Poxwalker
11x Poxwalker

+ Heavy Support +
Hellforged Scorpius:
Combi-bolter, Scorpius multi-launcher

++ Total: [60 PL, 998pts]++

The 20 man poxwalker gets the stragems The Dead Walk Again and Cloud of Flies so you treat it like a character for shooting purposes. Then you're pretty much only left with the cultists as a target, but when you kill them, they turn into pox walkers.

Both of these have to be activated before casualties right? You're talking about a cost of what, 3CP per turn? I'd just wait you out.

It's only 2 CP per turn. I mean, you can absolutely wait until turn 4 to start shooting, but units of 40 and 20 cultists doing rapid fire over a couple of turns is going to cause some damage. And the cultists are eventually going to get up into your lines and charge, forcing you to fight back, which will result in poxwalkers being created. That coupled with the fact that the shear volume of models inhibits deep strike capabilities really plays havoc on your tactical decision capabilities.

Is it a beatable list? Absolutely, but you need to have the right tools in order to take it out. If you have a TAC list designed to handle elite units/tanks/flyers/etc it most likely won't be good at killing bit infantry blobs.

Geez, these lists are starting to scare me. Great work people, keep 'em coming!

For the competitive players out there, I do know that 1,000 points is far below the usual points limit at tournaments. How likely do you think players would be able to spam flyers at that points total? At this point, those are the only unit I don't have a really dedicated answer to in my current army list.

 orchewer wrote:
Geez, these lists are starting to scare me. Great work people, keep 'em coming!

For the competitive players out there, I do know that 1,000 points is far below the usual points limit at tournaments. How likely do you think players would be able to spam flyers at that points total? At this point, those are the only unit I don't have a really dedicated answer to in my current army list.

An Eldar Air Wing Detachment is viable without breaking your two unit rule. Crimson Hunters are gunships that have 2x bright lances (Heavy 1 at 36"; Str 8; AP -4; D6) and 1x Pulse Laser (Heavy 2 at 48"; Str 8; AP -3; 3D). Hemlock Wraithfighters are Psychers that can cast smite and maledictions (usually Jinx which reduces all saves by -1) and can shoot 2x Heavy D-Scythe (Assault D3 as 16"; Str 12; AP -4; 2D; Autohitting). Most people would run this detachment as Alaitoc which means all the fliers would be -2 BS to hit when over 12" away with the possibility to spend to 2CP to add another -1 BS to one of them in the shooting phase if needed.

1) 2x Crimson Hunter + 1x Hemlock Wraithfighter = 560pts
2) 1x Crimson Hunter + 2x Hemlock Wraithfighter = 595pts

Either option leaves little wriggle room in the way of ground troops, which is not ideal, but it could be done. This detachment could be added to a Battalion of a Farseer (100) and Warlock(35) + 3x units of Rangers (180pts) + a sprinkle of whatever else to get to 1k points. This type of list would struggle against horde armies, but it should do well against elite armies.

Or see Galef's list above for a different variant does not use the Air Wing Det

I'm playing around with a 1000 point list right now myself running my Black Templars. This is what I've been able to come up with


Captain - Jump Pack, Teeth of Terra

5x Crusader Squad - Combi-Plasma, Plasma, Power Sword, Plasma Cannon
5x Intercessors - Aux Grenade Launcher
5x Intercessors - Aux Grenade Launcher

7x Vanguard Veterans - Jump Pack, Power Swords

Dreadnought - Assault Cannon

Storm Talon - Twin Assault Cannon, Twin Lascannon

Razorback - Twin Assault Cannon

 orchewer wrote:

- Maximum 2 units repeating outside of Troops

I'm going to assume that means whatever I want it to mean since it's ambiguous. Does it mean that only two units can be repeated as many times as you would like? Does it mean that you can only have two units repeating once each? Does it mean that I could have four of the same unit, because I took two identical units and repeated each one once? If one unit has a bolt pistol, and the other one has a chainsword, are they different units, or is one repeating? Is there any provision for Inquisition/SoS/etc or are they just getting swept under the rug? GW rules are bad sometimes, but house rules are almost always worse. :(

Anyway, I'm deciding that I can only repeat two units outside troops, but I can repeat them as many times as I'd like.

Army: "Why we can't have nice things.", 1000 points.

Detachment 1, Batallion, Elysians, 536pts

Elysian Company Commander
- Plasma Pistol
- Laurels of Command

Elysian Company Commander ( repeat 1 )
- Plasma Pistol

Elysian Drop Trooper Squad x 4
- Plasmagun
- Plasma Pistol

Elysian Command Squad
- Plasmagun x 4

Elysian Sniper Squad

Officer of the Fleet

Elysian Heavy Weapon Squad
- Mortar x 3

Tarantula Battery

2 HQ
4 Troop
3 Elite
2 Heavy

Detachment 2, Vanguard, Imperium, 423pts

Tempestor Prime
- Auto-Reliquary
- Power Fist
- Command Rod

Scions x 2
- Plasmagun x 2

Acolyte x 5 ( repeat number 2 )
- Boltgun

Scion Command Squad
- Plasmagun x 4

Scout Sentinel
- Autocannon

Heavy Weapon Squad
- Mortar x 3

Sabre Weapons Battery

1 HQ
2 Troop
6 Elite
1 Fast
2 Heavy

-------

That's 11 things I'm going to deep strike, and 12 things starting on the table. Turn 1 I deep strike 6 plasma pistols, 16 plasmaguns, and over 50 bodies right in front of the opponent. I have order coverage for every squad except for one. If that's not enough, I still have 4 heavy bolters, 6 mortars, and enough other little stuff that I can sprinkle around to make it almost impossible for my opponent to counter-deep strike into my deployment zone. Probably wipes about anything that's not a horde turn 1, and I'm guessing won't leave other horde armies in good shape.

I'd imagine I'd spend the other two hours of the round being annoying to the TO about how the attempts at forced comp really don't help anything, and only spur people on to doing goofy stuff like this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, that's my 'fluffy' version of that list. The competitive one takes 10 acolytes instead of the random other stuff I threw in there for funsies and then pretty easily squeezes out another Scion squad or two.

 daedalus wrote:

 orchewer wrote:

- Maximum 2 units repeating outside of Troops

I'm going to assume that means whatever I want it to mean since it's ambiguous. Does it mean that only two units can be repeated as many times as you would like? Does it mean that you can only have two units repeating once each? Does it mean that I could have four of the same unit, because I took two identical units and repeated each one once? If one unit has a bolt pistol, and the other one has a chainsword, are they different units, or is one repeating? Is there any provision for Inquisition/SoS/etc or are they just getting swept under the rug? GW rules are bad sometimes, but house rules are almost always worse. :(

Pretty sure it means you can have at most 2 of any unit, outside of troops, where you can have more than 2 of the same unit. This is a safe assumption because highlander play is generally pretty common, and this seems like a slightly expanded take on that.

He didn't do a good job of typing up the ruleset but it is a pretty innocuous error...

Fair enough.

I wasn't trying to come down on the OP necessarily for that. I figured the official tournament rules were just that unspecific. Pity that basically invalidates entire factions then.

At this point level and board size, I'd actually want to take something similar to my old 5th ed low point guard list:

Catachan Battalion

Straken
Company Commander

Infantry Squad x 6
- Plasma pistol
- Power sword
- Meltagun

Cadian Battalion

Creed
Company Commander

Priest with Eviscerator ( RAWR! )

Infantry Squad x 6
- Plasma pistol
- Power sword
- Meltagun

Edit: Forgot priests exist. How about that!

Marmatag wrote:

 daedalus wrote:

 orchewer wrote:

- Maximum 2 units repeating outside of Troops

I'm going to assume that means whatever I want it to mean since it's ambiguous. Does it mean that only two units can be repeated as many times as you would like? Does it mean that you can only have two units repeating once each? Does it mean that I could have four of the same unit, because I took two identical units and repeated each one once? If one unit has a bolt pistol, and the other one has a chainsword, are they different units, or is one repeating? Is there any provision for Inquisition/SoS/etc or are they just getting swept under the rug? GW rules are bad sometimes, but house rules are almost always worse. :(

Pretty sure it means you can have at most 2 of any unit, outside of troops, where you can have more than 2 of the same unit. This is a safe assumption because highlander play is generally pretty common, and this seems like a slightly expanded take on that.

He didn't do a good job of typing up the ruleset but it is a pretty innocuous error...

daedalus wrote:Fair enough.

I wasn't trying to come down on the OP necessarily for that. I figured the official tournament rules were just that unspecific. Pity that basically invalidates entire factions then.

Apologies, I was typing up the original post in a rush, but yes, Marmatag's assumption of an expanded Highlander rule is what the tournament is going for!

The exact wording is
"In any of the force slots (combined or individual) except for troops and dedicated transports, only two of the same choice may be taken (e.g.: you may have six Marine squads, and up to two Bike squads and a Land Speeder squadron, but not three Bike squads. Two separate vehicle squadrons or creature broods are OK, but not two troop Tervigons and a third in HQ)."

Okay, that's cool. I wasn't trying to condescend, I swear. Badly written rules in that direction is something I get hit by around here, so I'm just twitchy about it.

1 Stompa

Definitely mean for the ork player forced to play it.

 daedalus wrote:
Okay, that's cool. I wasn't trying to condescend, I swear. Badly written rules in that direction is something I get hit by around here, so I'm just twitchy about it.

No worries, all good! I think the spirit of this tournament is meant to avoid the most WAAC lists, but I'm trying to prepare for the worst. Thanks for the input!

The real thing is that armies that have really strong troops, like Imperial Guard, and Orks, will have an upper hand in this format.

Also, Imperial Guard can easily get around this 2x limitation because they can bring heavy support options as singles, OR in groups that deploy separately and are treated as separate units.

So you could have a guy with a ton of infantry squads blocking his tanks, and then easily 6+ Leman Russ despite the 2x limitation, because technically they're just 2 units of 3. This is expressly allowed in your rules.

In 1000 points on a 4x4 board, I don't think much will be able to handle 6 punisher russ shielded with infantry. That's about 300 shots from the tanks per turn, and you're probably handily reaching into your opponent's deployment zone to make that happen. Unless there is significant LOS blocking terrain, this will be immensely difficult to counter.

Same with Ork Boyz. They're incredibly cheap. If there is LOS blocking terrain these guys will swamp your lines on turn 2.

Which makes building a true take-all-comers list nearly impossible. I've given you two strong examples, one has a lot of T8 tanks pumping out insane dice, and another has an insane amount of bodies on the table. You can't build a list to address both of these things.

Without knowing what you have, it's tough to say what would indeed work well.

If it was me, and I actually had the models, I would bring a Dark Angels bike army. Scout bikes pump out dice like you cannot believe, and can get rerolls for Sammael, and you have access to nice units like Dark Knights for dealing with Tanks. You're also -1 to hit from a Dark Shroud, which helps, and if everything is driving around you're fairly mobile, so you can take advantage of the fact that bigger armies have to spread out and attack on an edge of the horde and work your way in. It's "fluffy" and fun, without being cheese, and could possibly do well.

 Marmatag wrote:
The real thing is that armies that have really strong troops, like Imperial Guard, and Orks, will have an upper hand in this format.

Also, Imperial Guard can easily get around this 2x limitation because they can bring heavy support options as singles, OR in groups that deploy separately and are treated as separate units.

So you could have a guy with a ton of infantry squads blocking his tanks, and then easily 6+ Leman Russ despite the 2x limitation, because technically they're just 2 units of 3. This is expressly allowed in your rules.

In 1000 points on a 4x4 board, I don't think much will be able to handle 6 punisher russ shielded with infantry. That's about 300 shots from the tanks per turn, and you're probably handily reaching into your opponent's deployment zone to make that happen. Unless there is significant LOS blocking terrain, this will be immensely difficult to counter.

Same with Ork Boyz. They're incredibly cheap. If there is LOS blocking terrain these guys will swamp your lines on turn 2.

Which makes building a true take-all-comers list nearly impossible. I've given you two strong examples, one has a lot of T8 tanks pumping out insane dice, and another has an insane amount of bodies on the table. You can't build a list to address both of these things.

Without knowing what you have, it's tough to say what would indeed work well.

If it was me, and I actually had the models, I would bring a Dark Angels bike army. Scout bikes pump out dice like you cannot believe, and can get rerolls for Sammael, and you have access to nice units like Dark Knights for dealing with Tanks. You're also -1 to hit from a Dark Shroud, which helps, and if everything is driving around you're fairly mobile, so you can take advantage of the fact that bigger armies have to spread out and attack on an edge of the horde and work your way in. It's "fluffy" and fun, without being cheese, and could possibly do well.

How about two of the meta armies to take on both of these -

4 dark talons around sammael and a darkshroud
5 flyrants with double devourers and a few mucolids / spore mines.

I think both of these would have a reasonable chance at decimating chaff and surviving punisher fire (or locking them up in the case of the flyrants)

Just ran this against some people in a semi-competitive game, it seemed to do well:

Drukhari, 1001 points

HQ
Succubus, Parasite's Kiss, Blood Dancer, +1 WS drugs

Troops
5 Warriors with Blaster (in Venom)
9 Wyches w/hydra gauntlets and agonizer, +1 A drugs (in Raider)
10 Warriors w/blaster and dark lance (in Raider)
5 Warriors (holding obj)

Fast Attack
5 Scourge w/4 Dark Lances

Flyer
Razorwing Jetfighter w/disintegrator cannons

Transports
2 Raiders w/dark lances
1 Venom w/2 splinter cannons

 DoomMouse wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
The real thing is that armies that have really strong troops, like Imperial Guard, and Orks, will have an upper hand in this format.

Also, Imperial Guard can easily get around this 2x limitation because they can bring heavy support options as singles, OR in groups that deploy separately and are treated as separate units.

So you could have a guy with a ton of infantry squads blocking his tanks, and then easily 6+ Leman Russ despite the 2x limitation, because technically they're just 2 units of 3. This is expressly allowed in your rules.

In 1000 points on a 4x4 board, I don't think much will be able to handle 6 punisher russ shielded with infantry. That's about 300 shots from the tanks per turn, and you're probably handily reaching into your opponent's deployment zone to make that happen. Unless there is significant LOS blocking terrain, this will be immensely difficult to counter.

Same with Ork Boyz. They're incredibly cheap. If there is LOS blocking terrain these guys will swamp your lines on turn 2.

Which makes building a true take-all-comers list nearly impossible. I've given you two strong examples, one has a lot of T8 tanks pumping out insane dice, and another has an insane amount of bodies on the table. You can't build a list to address both of these things.

Without knowing what you have, it's tough to say what would indeed work well.

If it was me, and I actually had the models, I would bring a Dark Angels bike army. Scout bikes pump out dice like you cannot believe, and can get rerolls for Sammael, and you have access to nice units like Dark Knights for dealing with Tanks. You're also -1 to hit from a Dark Shroud, which helps, and if everything is driving around you're fairly mobile, so you can take advantage of the fact that bigger armies have to spread out and attack on an edge of the horde and work your way in. It's "fluffy" and fun, without being cheese, and could possibly do well.

How about two of the meta armies to take on both of these -

4 dark talons around sammael and a darkshroud
5 flyrants with double devourers and a few mucolids / spore mines.

I think both of these would have a reasonable chance at decimating chaff and surviving punisher fire (or locking them up in the case of the flyrants)

You cannot run more than 2 dark talons or more than 2 flyrants. As per the rules.

Ah fair enough - forgot about the unit cap