How do i defeat 60 poxwalkers and 70 cultists in a 1k list with BA ?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**p5freak**

I played against this list, and of course i lost.

Spoiler:

Daemon lord and typhus in the center of a poxwalker bubble and cultists on the outside.

This is my list :

Spoiler:

I had first turn, shot the cultists, charged the poxwalkers and the cultists with DC, but i couldnt punch a hole to get to the poxwalkers. Even with fighting a second time i couldnt get to the poxwalkers. On my opponents turn he casted putrescent vitality and blades of putrefaction on the poxwalker unit next to the DC, making them S5 and T5, adding 1 to wound rolls. They killed the remaining DC, and the game was pretty much done from that point. He moved across the battlefield, and i was simply unable to shoot so many models.

**Silentz**

I mean... you're cutting right to the heart of why people say 8th ed is more of a horde meta than an elite meta. Your few dudes don't have the volume of their higher-quality attacks to kill 30+ models a turn, and the fact that he can select which models he removes means the screen stays in place.

Whereas his volume of attacks can and will find a way through your armour.

You need to bring the really strong anti-horde. Primaris aggressors with boltstorm gauntlets infiltrating, hurricane bolters, TLAC razorbacks perhaps

Thing is in 1000 pts its super hard to make a proper Take All Comers list. Your BA will probably wreck face vs a Custodes player with loads of thunder hammers and multiple damage wounding on 2's attacks... but you are the rock against paper here.

**Kroem**

I don't suppose you have a spare Land Raider Crusader lying around? :-p

**MadMekRoff**

My suggestion would be to swap the Heavy Flamers out for Heavy Bolters or Assault Cannons on the Speeders and then shoot and scoot. Stay clear or the blob.

Depending on the points, might be worth swapping those Tac Marine squads for foot slogging Death Company as well. The FNP and extra attack would probably go a bit further.

Ideally it looks like an army you want to keep back from and shoot from afar, or skirt around and keep out of assault.

My straight forward suggestion would be to take another army, probably another horde army, but I know not everyone has that option.

**p5freak**

I do have more units available, i have razorbacks, whirlwinds, inceptors, land raider, lots of dreads, but i dont think i can bring enough dakka to the table to defeat it. To many bodies to kill. I would lose CP by removing the tacs, which i need for DC. Staying away and shooting is not BA style.
Nice thing about the landspeeders is autohits, they can defeat cloud of flies with their 20" movement, they can still shoot after falling back, they did quite well. Twin heavy bolters would only score 4 hits per landspeeder, inflict 2-3 wounds, 1 would probably be saved, which means only 1-2 cultists, or poxwalkers would be killed.
LR crusader sounds good, but its 308 pts. and it must be 12" from the enemy to be in rapid fire range, which makes it vulnerable to charges. It would need protection from that. Poxwalkers have T4 from typhus, maybe even T5 from putrescent vitality. Which makes bolter shots less effective.
Dont forget that any dead cultist can turn into a poxwalker with the dead walk again.

**MadMekRoff**

I get what you're saying, I've spent 3 editions trying to play Imperial Fists fluffy. It's more fun that way, but as someone has said, it sounds like a rock paper scissors situation and the BA tactics won't really work.

Another suggestion I would make is autocannons. I know they're not fluffy for the Angels, but they have the high str to make toughness4/5 moot and they do double damage which works much better against FNP. I've had real success against cultists/guard with Rifleman dreads (not sure if you'll have to use the Index for that?) against blobs, especially when backed with a cheap captain and lieutenant combo.

**Nightlord1987**

The horde is slow, and wants to eat Infantry.

Rhinos stop my pox walkers. Your land speeders should become road blocks

Im sure some dreads can help hold the mob also. Just gotta hit the right mob.

Dead pox walkers cant spam other pox walkers, and once below 10, their WS drops.

The Prince will be a problem since I'm sure it has the Relic armor for a 2+ save that deals mortal wounds on successes... and you have no power weapons or shooting.

**Neophyte2012**

Those hordes don't shoot well. So maybe stay away to let them come to your? They gonna get shot by you on their march, and after several turns there will be some units get weakened (such as those Cultist are only 15 strong, Poxwalker squad only 10 strong). Wait for the right moment to unleash the Death Company for that charge to make up the decesive moment.

Also, against such a list, highly suggest you do not strike at the center, because the units on two flank can react and come to you almost immediately. Try to concentrate your strike on one of his flank, and of course, try strike on a relatively weaker flank and cripple it quick. When a flank got striked, only the army in his central sector could react in time, the units on the other flank would need more time to reach you.

Hope that might help.

**p5freak**

I like autocannons and use them, but an autocannon dread is 133 pts, and wont be help much either against so many models. I can almost get two quad heavy bolters (152 pts.) for the price of an autocannon dread, which would be better.

**Zid**

Volume of shots > Poxwalker hordes. As others have said, you need to thin them out before you go charging in. Poxwalkers cannot spawn more poxwalkers, so killing cultists first (unless you go first) is playing right into their plan.

That said, I'd add more fire support to your list. Also realize that Poxwalkers are fearless, so morale testing them does nothing. You need to kill them to below 10 per squad before engaging them, they are really weak if the squads less than 10.

**p5freak**

Nightlord1987 wrote:The horde is slow, and wants to eat Infantry.
Dead pox walkers cant spam other pox walkers, and once below 10, their WS drops.

I know, i tried to kill poxwalkers in my first turn, but it didnt work. Couldnt get through the cultist shield.

Nightlord1987 wrote:
The Prince will be a problem since I'm sure it has the Relic armor for a 2+ save that deals mortal wounds on successes... and you have no power weapons or shooting.

The captain with TH could do that, if he can get to him. I have no idea what to remove to get some shooting.

Neophyte2012 wrote:Those hordes don't shoot well. So maybe stay away to let them come to your? They gonna get shot by you on their march, and after several turns there will be some units get weakened (such as those Cultist are only 15 strong, Poxwalker squad only 10 strong). Wait for the right moment to unleash the Death Company for that charge to make up the decesive moment.

They dont need to shoot well, its the large amount of shooting, and my small model count. 70 cultists have 70 shots at 24", or 140 shots at 12", hitting on 4, and wounding in 5s. If i dont kill cultists they will shoot a lot of guns at me, when they approach. If i kill them they will turn into poxwalkers.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Also, against such a list, highly suggest you do not strike at the center, because the units on two flank can react and come to you almost immediately. Try to concentrate your strike on one of his flank, and of course, try strike on a relatively weaker flank and cripple it quick. When a flank got striked, only the army in his central sector could react in time, the units on the other flank would need more time to reach you.

I tried it at a flank, but it didnt work.

**John Prins**

Baal Predators and Tactical Marines (for numbers).

**p5freak**

Zid wrote:
Volume of shots > Poxwalker hordes. As others have said, you need to thin them out before you go charging in. Poxwalkers cannot spawn more poxwalkers, so killing cultists first (unless you go first) is playing right into their plan.

I had first turn, and tried to kill poxwalkers, but had to get through the cultist shield, where i failed.

Zid wrote:

That said, I'd add more fire support to your list. Also realize that Poxwalkers are fearless, so morale testing them does nothing. You need to kill them to below 10 per squad before engaging them, they are really weak if the squads less than 10.

And what should i remove to get some fire support ? The land speeders did a good job. I need the tacs to hold objectives and to get some CP. Lemartes buffs DC. DC hits hard when they charge, 4 attacks per model, +1 to wound with red thirst, lemartes lets them reroll failed charges and all failed hit rolls in melee. The captain is my warlord and can hit really hard with his hammer.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

John Prins wrote:
Baal Predators and Tactical Marines (for numbers).

Your kidding, right ? Baal preds are way to expensive at 144 pts, a razorback with twin AC is only 114 pts. and can do the same, with only 1 wound less. Tacs useless against so many models. All they can do is get me some CP and hold objectives.

**Leo_the_Rat**

StormRaven with autocannons and hurricanes. Just shove it right into him. His troops can't charge it or even swing at it. So you get one free turn of Dakka. It's a shame that you don't have a psycker ability that lets you move units like SM or GK then you just move the StormRaven and return it to the combat theater via psychic phase.

**Xenomancers**

The real question is - how are they going to destroy your 3 fire raptors with a bunch of melle that can't even attack fliers?

**p5freak**

Xenomancers wrote:
The real question is - how are they going to destroy your 3 fire raptors with a bunch of melle that can't even attack fliers?

The real question is, how do i get 3 fire raptors in a 1k list ?

How do i hold objectives with 3 fire raptors, and no units on the ground ?

I am tabled before the game even begins

**bananathug**

Lol, the answer to all marine problems is fire raptors and guilliman...I hate 8th edition

**Desubot**

Honest question, how would locking a blob of pox with a blender dread work out?

wounding on a 6 will only get them so far.

Edit: i see it was suggested, Rhino road blocks and stuff should hold them down for a bit. sure they can leave combat but they arent charging after giving you more and more time to shoot them instead.

**KurtAngle2**

Rotfl at your list, Tactical Marine spam is objectively a bad way to play this game, especially in such a CQC focused army like Blood Angels

**TwinPoleTheory**

Desubot wrote:
wounding on a 6 will only get them so far.

Except they will wound on 4+.

**John Prins**

p5freak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

John Prins wrote:
Baal Predators and Tactical Marines (for numbers).

Your kidding, right ? Baal preds are way to expensive at 144 pts, a razorback with twin AC is only 114 pts. and can do the same, with only 1 wound less. Tacs useless against so many models. All they can do is get me some CP and hold objectives.

Twin AC razorbacks don't come with sponson Heavy Bolters. I assume a BA player will have a Baal Predator anyways, which is why I recommended it.

Also, later in the thread you're saying you NEED to bring Tacticals, so what's the problem with Tacticals? You need bodies with guns and everything you're shooting at is T3 or T4 and has jack for armor. This might be a case where Missile Launchers could work, seeing as you'll need to shoot the Daemon Prince eventually.

You could take sniper scouts to hold objectives and shoot Typhus to death ASAP so he stops buffing Poxwalkers, but sniper scouts won't have the volume of fire to deal with anything else.

**Desubot**

TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Desubot wrote:
wounding on a 6 will only get them so far.

Except they will wound on 4+.

Yeah sorry i dont have all the information on what the pox walkers do. im sure it will work on chump cultists. what gives them the 4+?

Edit even then though how many pox walkers are going to swing, how many attacks and the chances. a blender dread might take out a decent chunk before going down.

**Nightlord1987**

What kind of missions are you playing? It seems like alot of people are against maelstrom games (drunken commander), but they force both players to be more adaptable with tactics and list building.

This DG list has one trick to play.

**p5freak**

Desubot wrote:Honest question, how would locking a blob of pox with a blender dread work out?
Edit: i see it was suggested, Rhino road blocks and stuff should hold them down for a bit. sure they can leave combat but they arent charging after giving you more and more time to shoot them instead.

Ok, i stop the horde from moving forward a bit, but cultists/poxwalkers cant be shot when they are in CC with a rhino.

John Prins wrote:
Twin AC razorbacks don't come with sponson Heavy Bolters. I assume a BA player will have a Baal Predator anyways, which is why I recommended it.

If you look at BA lists there usually are no Baal preds, because they are way to expensive. Its normal preds, or razorbacks. One heavy bolter will kill 1-2 poxwalkers. Thats nothing compared to the number of cultists and poxwalkers.

John Prins wrote:
Also, later in the thread you're saying you NEED to bring Tacticals, so what's the problem with Tacticals? You need bodies with guns and everything you're shooting at is T3 or T4 and has jack for armor. This might be a case where Missile Launchers could work, seeing as you'll need to shoot the Daemon Prince eventually.

Tacs are bad, cant use CC weapons, cant use stormbolters, except for the sarge. Their only advantage is obsec and "low" point costs.

John Prins wrote:
You could take sniper scouts to hold objectives and shoot Typhus to death ASAP so he stops buffing Poxwalkers, but sniper scouts won't have the volume of fire to deal with anything else.

I dont have any scouts. Even with 15 sniper rifles it would take 3-4 turns to kill typhus. He is T5, W6, 2+, 5+++.

**Desubot**

p5freak wrote:
Desubot wrote:Honest question, how would locking a blob of pox with a blender dread work out?
Edit: i see it was suggested, Rhino road blocks and stuff should hold them down for a bit. sure they can leave combat but they arent charging after giving you more and more time to shoot them instead.

Ok, i stop the horde from moving forward a bit, but cultists/poxwalkers cant be shot when they are in CC with a rhino.

Try and charge it so it cant be fully surrounded and just leave combat (next turn). it may take two or more rhinos to alternate but it could be done.

not that it will work or anything its just a thought.

**TwinPoleTheory**

Desubot wrote:
Yeah sorry i dont have all the information on what the pox walkers do. im sure it will work on chump cultists. what gives them the 4+?

Edit even then though how many pox walkers are going to swing, how many attacks and the chances. a blender dread might take out a decent chunk before going down.

No worries, I actually left something out, they can wound on a 3+ anything in the game.

Basically, between Typhus and Putrescent Vitality they become S/T 5, Blades of Putrefaction gives them +1 to wound, Veterans gives them another +1, 3+ wound.

**Nightlord1987**

The Landspeeders with Fly can bumper car them. If they charge at a LS then so what. If they dont destroy it, fly out, re burn, and get overwatch again.

Ive played pox walker farm. it relies heavy on CPs and psychic powers to work, Not always reliable.

Just wait until they add in a Tallyman for re-rolls and some CP back.

**Desubot**

TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Yeah sorry i dont have all the information on what the pox walkers do. im sure it will work on chump cultists. what gives them the 4+?

Edit even then though how many pox walkers are going to swing, how many attacks and the chances. a blender dread might take out a decent chunk before going down.

No worries, I actually left something out, they can wound on a 3+ anything in the game.

Basically, between Typhus and Putrescent Vitality they become S/T 5, Blades of Putrefaction gives them +1 to wound, Veterans gives them another +1, 3+ wound.

Ah ok. its one of those kinds wombo combo lists.

It shouldnt be too bad if you can knock out the buffs but trying to mulch through a butt load of T5 is gona be hard.

**p5freak**

Desubot wrote:
Yeah sorry i dont have all the information on what the pox walkers do. im sure it will work on chump cultists. what gives them the 4+?

Edit even then though how many pox walkers are going to swing, how many attacks and the chances. a blender dread might take out a decent chunk before going down.

Typhus buffs poxwalkers to S4 and T4 just by being there (within 7"). And putrescent vitality will buff one DG unit with S+1 and T+1, making them S5 and T5, if needed. Blades of putrefaction will add +1 to wound rolls. Even with S4 they will wound a T7 dread on 4+. 20 poxwalkers will hit on 4+ and wound the dread on 4+.

Nightlord1987 wrote:What kind of missions are you playing? It seems like alot of people are against maelstrom games (drunken commander), but they force both players to be more adaptable with tactics and list building.

This DG list has one trick to play.

We played the open war cards. There were 4 objectives on the battlefield. Poxwalkers and cultists have obsec i believe. They outnumbered my tac squads by a lot, before killing them.

**Martel732**

312 pts gets you a lot of inceptors who will mulch all that chaff. Dump the heavy flamer speeders. 8" range is a major downer in 8th ed.