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 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
About using rerolls, since that is a stratagem, you are not allowed to use two stratagems in the same phase.

Yes, you are. You just can't use the same stratagem twice in the same phase.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/20/preview-the-mephrit-dynasty-and-destroyersgw-homepage-post-2/

So basically a confirmation of what we've seen before.

Still, even that's good, means Destroyers do exactly what it says on the can...destroy

So far the beta codex has been pretty close to everything but Forgebane.

I am really liking that most of the Necron stratagems are only 1 CP. For an army with no allies, this is pretty critical, since it is unlikely you will ever get more than 9 CP for a Necron Army.

Loving this Mephrit code. Destroyers and Gauss are going to be great with all of the trans-dimensional beam shenanigans.

Destroyers are going to be horrific against Primaris.

Good AP, lots of shots, decent damage. Wang out a squad level re-roll, and you're deleting a unit each turn.

Can anyone used to 8th Ed provide a useful comment on whether S6 is particularly reliable firepower against Tanks?

Thats a loaded question. S6 in a vacuum wounds most tanks in the game 1/3 the time.

Mathhammering it up you do 17.8 wounds with 6 destroyers to a tank when at half range if it has a 3+ save or worse. Or 14.8 wounds to a 2+ save tank. This is assuming you're using the "Destroyers kill everything" stratagem, which you would be.

So yes, a squad of 6 destroyers happily kill a tank, or almost kill a Land Raider.

Though against lower toughness targets this increases. For example just deleting whole squads of terminators...

Sweet.

Not having played more than a single game, still haven't properly got my head round the new fangled wounding and Tanks.

Certainly seems appealing enough for me not to overly worry about adding Heavy Destroyers. I'd rather stick with withering anti-infantry fire than can, with just a little over average luck, pop a tank in a pinch. (I consider 5+ to be reliable, YMMV!)

Aren73 wrote:
Mathhammering it up you do 17.8 wounds with 6 destroyers to a tank when at half range if it has a 3+ save or worse. Or 14.8 wounds to a 2+ save tank. This is assuming you're using the "Destroyers kill everything" stratagem, which you would be.

So yes, a squad of 6 destroyers happily kill a tank, or almost kill a Land Raider.

Though against lower toughness targets this increases. For example just deleting whole squads of terminators...

Just to be clear, your using the Mephrit code here.

Oh indeed. I love my Destroyers, so Mephrit seems the one for me. Add in the 'no cover for you' stratagem, and they really, really appeal.

Like, I may add a second full unit appeal!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh indeed. I love my Destroyers, so Mephrit seems the one for me. Add in the 'no cover for you' stratagem, and they really, really appeal.

OMG did GW just make Destroyers good again?!

Another 3 editions and the Monolith will be playable again!

Red Corsair wrote:

Aren73 wrote:
Mathhammering it up you do 17.8 wounds with 6 destroyers to a tank when at half range if it has a 3+ save or worse. Or 14.8 wounds to a 2+ save tank. This is assuming you're using the "Destroyers kill everything" stratagem, which you would be.

So yes, a squad of 6 destroyers happily kill a tank, or almost kill a Land Raider.

Though against lower toughness targets this increases. For example just deleting whole squads of terminators...

Just to be clear, your using the Mephrit code here.

Indeed I am.

I think destroyers, with a veil of darkness character turn one teleport, Mephrit code and "Destroyers kill everything forever" stratagem would be a strong alpha strike.

So imagine this: Overlord uses MWBD at the start of the turn, then you veil of darkness your destroyer lord and his crew of 6 destroyers within 9'' of the enemy, use the "Destroyers for daaaayyyssss" strategem. You then get: 18 shots, hitting on 2+ with rerolls, str 6 reroll to wound, ap-4 and d3 damage. Oh and whatever your Destroyer Lord can do on top of that.

Best part? That is turn one, on a target of your choice. Ok maybe not quite Primarch killing, but when supported by some heavy destroyers...well we're getting there, aren't we?


Ooooooh man this makes me excited.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Destroyers are going to be horrific against Primaris.

Good AP, lots of shots, decent damage. Wang out a squad level re-roll, and you're deleting a unit each turn.

Can anyone used to 8th Ed provide a useful comment on whether S6 is particularly reliable firepower against Tanks?

Meet an AM army with a Baneblade and several LRBTs at the 2000 pt level.
All of them have T8, so S6 wounds on 5+. Not reliable enough.

Well I was looking at the HQ warlord trait that makes him a sniper. Now add a command barge with a Gauss weapon and ouch. Not to shabby.

shadowfinder wrote:
Well I was looking at the HQ warlord trait that makes him a sniper. Now add a command barge with a Gauss weapon and ouch. Not to shabby.

Careful....there'll be those arguing he's not actually using the weapon mounted on the Command Barge!

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Destroyers are going to be horrific against Primaris.

Good AP, lots of shots, decent damage. Wang out a squad level re-roll, and you're deleting a unit each turn.

Can anyone used to 8th Ed provide a useful comment on whether S6 is particularly reliable firepower against Tanks?

Meet an AM army with a Baneblade and several LRBTs at the 2000 pt level.
All of them have T8, so S6 wounds on 5+. Not reliable enough.

Yes it wounds on a 5+, but with their "Destroyers kick ass now" stratagem, 6 destroyers still do 17.8 wounds to a 3+ sv tank or 14.8 wounds to a 2+ one and that's without an Overlord blessing them with a 2+ to hit. Surely that kills a LRBT, probably does severe damage to the Baneblade too. Sure Heavy Destroyers do it better, but normal destroyers can and will kill tanks now.

shadowfinder wrote:
Well I was looking at the HQ warlord trait that makes him a sniper. Now add a command barge with a Gauss weapon and ouch. Not to shabby.

Except gauss cannons are not assault, so you can't snipe with that. You can with a tesla cannon.
I can see a crypteks being a good warlord choice for Mephrit, as they can only have staff of lights anyway.

Aren73 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Destroyers are going to be horrific against Primaris.

Good AP, lots of shots, decent damage. Wang out a squad level re-roll, and you're deleting a unit each turn.

Can anyone used to 8th Ed provide a useful comment on whether S6 is particularly reliable firepower against Tanks?

Meet an AM army with a Baneblade and several LRBTs at the 2000 pt level.
All of them have T8, so S6 wounds on 5+. Not reliable enough.

Yes it wounds on a 5+, but with their "Destroyers kick ass now" stratagem, 6 destroyers still do 17.8 wounds to a 3+ sv tank or 14.8 wounds to a 2+ one and that's without an Overlord blessing them with a 2+ to hit. Surely that kills a LRBT, probably does severe damage to the Baneblade too. Sure Heavy Destroyers do it better, but normal destroyers can and will kill tanks now.

Plus, you'll have enough bodies to tie the Leman Russ's up in combat, being too close for their allies to shoot, and force them to move back when they can't shoot without using a strategem (and they can only use it once a phase)...
There are possibilities there.

I don't see how Mephrit destroyer lords with a warscythe are noteworthy. Seems to be an odd thing to specify in the article.

Can't wait for the Novokh reveal tomorrow. That's the other ruleset I'm interested in.

The difference between S5 and S6 is pointless against tanks, which are almost all T7+. Both strengths wound on 5+
Where the bump in strength really stands out is against light vehicles (T5 & 6) and T3 infantry. In those cases, the Gauss cannon essentially gets +1 to wound from the Index profile.

This reinforces the intended role of Destroyers: to destroy living things, not necessarily tanks. That's what Heavy Destroyers are for.

-

 Imateria wrote:

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
About using rerolls, since that is a stratagem, you are not allowed to use two stratagems in the same phase.

Yes, you are. You just can't use the same stratagem twice in the same phase.

Thanks, perhaps some day I will learn to think before typing anything on a forum.

 Galef wrote:
The difference between S5 and S6 is pointless against tanks, which are almost all T7+. Both strengths wound on 5+
Where the bump in strength really stands out is against light vehicles (T5 & 6) and T3 infantry. In those cases, the Gauss cannon essentially gets +1 to wound from the Index profile.

This reinforces the intended role of Destroyers: to destroy living things, not necessarily tanks. That's what Heavy Destroyers are for.

-

And T5 infantry, which is more common now than before.

 Galef wrote:
The difference between S5 and S6 is pointless against tanks, which are almost all T7+. Both strengths wound on 5+
Where the bump in strength really stands out is against light vehicles (T5 & 6) and T3 infantry. In those cases, the Gauss cannon essentially gets +1 to wound from the Index profile.

This reinforces the intended role of Destroyers: to destroy living things, not necessarily tanks. That's what Heavy Destroyers are for.

-

Absolutely. You cannot allow destroyers to be the only thing that can damage tanks in your list. However, in a pinch, 6 destroyers will put the hurt on any tank. In most games throw them at t5 and t6 targets, preferably with multiple wounds. Find yourself some Tyranid warriors and absolutely go to town. Or Terminatos. Or any Primaris. Don't waste them on Guardsmen though, save those for your warriors.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

shadowfinder wrote:
Well I was looking at the HQ warlord trait that makes him a sniper. Now add a command barge with a Gauss weapon and ouch. Not to shabby.

Careful....there'll be those arguing he's not actually using the weapon mounted on the Command Barge!

What? CCB is a single model. I don't understand. So if your warlord is Biker his rules apply differently for bike shooting? It's weird and i do not see how this arguments can be valid.

My concern with Heavy Destroyers is how well their lack of volume competes against max unit Destroyers (a quirk of mine is preferring maxed units)

Once Heavies have knocked the armour, what else do they do?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

shadowfinder wrote:
Well I was looking at the HQ warlord trait that makes him a sniper. Now add a command barge with a Gauss weapon and ouch. Not to shabby.

Careful....there'll be those arguing he's not actually using the weapon mounted on the Command Barge!

What? CCB is a single model. I don't understand. So if your warlord is Biker his rules apply differently for bike shooting? It's weird and i do not see how this arguments can be valid.

But the CCB is a single model. It's its own unit entry. Its lot like in 5th ed where it was a just transport choice that the overlord can leave. The CCB IS the warlord.

Yep, the CCB is the Warlord, so there's no issue.

Quoted the wrong post!

Was meant to be replying to the thought the stratagem works with any weapon.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Meet an AM army with a Baneblade and several LRBTs at the 2000 pt level.
All of them have T8, so S6 wounds on 5+. Not reliable enough.

Reroll wounds and multi damage is something tougher vehicles hate.

A baneblade hit with a mephtrit squad of 6 and the 1CP with MWBD becomes a reliable 16 wounds. Can you find 10 more wounds from the other 1700 points of your army to kill it? That is not shabby.

With the change to destroyers confirmed pretty much dusting off my old destroyer wing from 3rd. It's like we're kinda going backwards to go forwards here. Next update you'll see they go back to 36" cannons or something.