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2018/10/15 13:32:08
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/10/15 14:04:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
2018/10/15 14:21:35
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
Shouldn't the math come out to 16? Since a shot's damage from the Pylon is doubled vs Titanic Targets, you can do 14, 16, or 18 points of damage with a unsaved wound, so 2 wounds from a Pylon is a guaranteed kill on any knight model in the game rolling minimum damage.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/10/15 15:01:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
Wait, Traitor Knights don't have the +1 invuln relic?
2018/10/15 15:17:34
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Idea here is to place either 6 destroyers or the warriors, and to place the other in deepstrike. Deceiver places the wraiths on a midboard objective, possibly moves the dda to have better los. Pop the strat with the wraiths to give 2 up invul early to soak firepower, use nephrekh mobility for early board control and go from there. ITC missions.
Let me know your thoughts!
You'd be better off with Nephrekh Wraiths over Nihilakh Wraiths, keep in mind that the Stratagem is used at the end of your turn, so if your opponent gets first turn the Wraiths might be in trouble. I'd cut a few Warriors to get a full squad of Tesla Immortals for maximum damage output T1 with your Overlord. I also think the Spyder is overpriced.
I'd make the Nephrekh Battalion Sautekh, you can re-deploy key units with the Deceiver anyways and you won't benefit much from Immortal Pride I don't think. In that case, you'd want to keep the Wraiths Nihilakh. Making the entire list Sautekh is also a pretty good option, then change the Wraiths so you get two full squads of Immortals and then a bunch of Scarabs or replace the Spyder with a third DDA.
I'd cut the Warrriors in favour of more Tesla Immortals. Warriors can't fire if you advance, better synergy with Immortals.
Honestly I'd cut the Deceiver. if you don't get first turn, the wraiths don't get the buff from stratagem and if you do, you can just advance them up the field onto an objective anyway. For the points he's costing you, I don't see him adding much here. Cut his ass, get a third Doomsday Ark, drop the spider and use the points to max out the Immortal squads.
Deceiver is fun, but he's so pricey you need to build around him to maximise his worth.
I actually like the warriors, I use them for bubble wrap around my DDA.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This may be wish listy a bit but...
Does anyone think we got robbed on not getting a Strategem like Tide of Traitors for Necrons? I mean, the whole theme of the army is Reanimate, rise from the dead. If we had a similar stratagem do you think that would increase our competitiveness. Probably just limit it to troops, or maybe even only warriors for balance purposes. Make it a once per game stratagem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 16:00:19
2018/10/15 18:28:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I suppose it would be nice to have, but your opponent will always aim to destroy whole squads anyway, so it would essentially have the same strengths and weaknesses that RP currently has.
I agree, however, that it would be a a very Necron thing to have, since it basically combines the deepstrike/teleport aspect with the resurrection mechanic.
In general I like to have diversity between armies, so I'm not a fan of having the same or very similar stratagems across different factions.
2018/10/15 18:55:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
Shouldn't the math come out to 16? Since a shot's damage from the Pylon is doubled vs Titanic Targets, you can do 14, 16, or 18 points of damage with a unsaved wound, so 2 wounds from a Pylon is a guaranteed kill on any knight model in the game rolling minimum damage.
effective BS 3+ (the profile is -1 against non-fly) at D6 shots per pylon, d3+6 damage per wound that gets past the invulnerable save of 4+ (they will use the stratagem to get a +1 invuln save)
I was using this dicehammer site to do the math, http://www.dice-hammer.com/#!/damage filling in the info it does come out to 15.56 average (after doubling) damage per Pylon.
If they did not use the stratagem it would be 20.74
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
Wait, Traitor Knights don't have the +1 invuln relic?
The only relic they have is an enemy leadership modifier.
They do have the +1 invulnerability save stratagem that costs them 1 command point, which lasts until the end of the phase.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 19:05:28
2018/10/15 21:10:07
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
On a sidenote, I just noticed that the Night Shroud Bomber is somewhat different from its smaller siblings. It has T7 vs T6, which comes in handy, and for a 14W model it's top bracket lasts all the way down to 6W, its first at 3-5W it reaches its second highest level.
Its special bombardment ability is not much, and I don't see mysef digging 80£ + shipping for one any time soon, but if I come across one, it could be fun to play in a friendly game.
though I'm not sure who among my regular oponents would field a "unit of vehicles" to perhaps get the max out of its bomb.
2018/10/15 21:52:58
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Adeptus Mechanicus is the only army I can think of that regularly fields "units of vehicles" and even then I don't think the chicken walkers are considered to be top tier competitive (I just have one guy I play with who really loves them).
The difference between T6 and T7 isn't as big as you think, either. Most anti-tank is going to be S8 or S9, against which the difference in toughness is irrelevant. It only really comes up with autocannons... Which in my experience people only take when they's specifically tailoring against Necrons. >.>
2018/10/16 02:00:03
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Just out of interest, whats the current viewpoints around the Milipedes?
you get a deep strike monster that's no pushover in combat, and comes with a gloom prism to boot for a measly 5pts extra
Finally built mine, and I'm wondering what the general concensus is in relation
Experience is something you get just after you need it The Narkos Dynasty - 15k Iron Hands - 12k The Shadewatch - 3k Cadmus Outriders - 4k Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k
2018/10/16 02:45:40
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
IHateNids wrote: Just out of interest, whats the current viewpoints around the Milipedes?
you get a deep strike monster that's no pushover in combat, and comes with a gloom prism to boot for a measly 5pts extra
Finally built mine, and I'm wondering what the general concensus is in relation
The gloom prism is nice...but for survivability and deep striking you could just do Nephrehk Wraiths, and probably come out ahead IMO...which stinks because they are suuuuuper cool models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/16 02:47:06
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/10/16 06:01:56
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
IHateNids wrote: Just out of interest, whats the current viewpoints around the Milipedes?
you get a deep strike monster that's no pushover in combat, and comes with a gloom prism to boot for a measly 5pts extra
Finally built mine, and I'm wondering what the general concensus is in relation
The gloom prism is nice...but for survivability and deep striking you could just do Nephrehk Wraiths, and probably come out ahead IMO...which stinks because they are suuuuuper cool models.
True. I have built one, it's one of the coolest things I have, but it doesn't get much table time.
You could make a case for it as a way to counter gunlines, deep strike, shoot tanks with S10 and then charge them. But one centipede does not a spring make and we don't have that ich points to throw around
2018/10/16 06:34:26
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
IHateNids wrote: Just out of interest, whats the current viewpoints around the Milipedes?
you get a deep strike monster that's no pushover in combat, and comes with a gloom prism to boot for a measly 5pts extra
Finally built mine, and I'm wondering what the general concensus is in relation
Its a very cool looking model, but rules wise it sucks. I have two borrowed from a friend to test them out, played them as sentinels. As usual with necrons its to expensive. The stalker only has a 12" gun with the usual highly random D6 shots, damage 3 is nice, though. No QS, no inv. You must play it as sautekh, to ignore the move and fire heavy weapon penalty. I had to advance to get it in weapon range, which means -1 to hit. Both got nerfed with the new tactical reserve beta rule. With the deceiver the sentinel cant shoot because you have to be more than 12" away from the enemy.
2018/10/16 08:07:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
If he plans to use 2 pylons to destroy 2 knights that means he's assuming to shoot at 1 per knight thus only one knight has extra inv boost. One is plain naked(and you would be likely better off shooting at the undamaged anyway if odds are good you will minimum put second to last bracket if not blow it up).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arachnofiend wrote: Adeptus Mechanicus is the only army I can think of that regularly fields "units of vehicles" and even then I don't think the chicken walkers are considered to be top tier competitive (I just have one guy I play with who really loves them).
The difference between T6 and T7 isn't as big as you think, either. Most anti-tank is going to be S8 or S9, against which the difference in toughness is irrelevant. It only really comes up with autocannons... Which in my experience people only take when they's specifically tailoring against Necrons. >.>
Orks have some as well which might see more use with codex.
Also autocannon type of weapons have become popular after dark eldars got in as they are perfect for hitting those DE vehicles as well and DE are pretty damn common in tournaments.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/16 08:41:02
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/10/16 13:38:47
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Played a game this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but the changes to the FLY keyword and how it doesn't work in charges does NOT impact our Wraiths. Is this correct?
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Arachnofiend wrote: Adeptus Mechanicus is the only army I can think of that regularly fields "units of vehicles" and even then I don't think the chicken walkers are considered to be top tier competitive (I just have one guy I play with who really loves them).
The difference between T6 and T7 isn't as big as you think, either. Most anti-tank is going to be S8 or S9, against which the difference in toughness is irrelevant. It only really comes up with autocannons... Which in my experience people only take when they's specifically tailoring against Necrons. >.>
Orks have some as well which might see more use with codex.
Also autocannon type of weapons have become popular after dark eldars got in as they are perfect for hitting those DE vehicles as well and DE are pretty damn common in tournaments.
So the Night Shroud Bomber might have something going for it.
Not competitively, but something.
Funny how that mini-addiction starts churning in the back of one's mind with only that shred of an excuse to get a new model... something on ebay? hm.. not yet... £80.. is that really so bad... dunno.... resin sucks but this model has big plain pieces.. shouldn't be too bad... hm.., time to assemble and paint it... not important...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dynas wrote: Played a game this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but the changes to the FLY keyword and how it doesn't work in charges does NOT impact our Wraiths. Is this correct?
Wraiths had special mention in the necron faq, giving them the same limitation effectively
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/16 13:44:28
2018/10/16 15:33:55
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Dynas wrote: Played a game this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but the changes to the FLY keyword and how it doesn't work in charges does NOT impact our Wraiths. Is this correct?
Sadly Wraiths received the same treatment (see necron FAQ) as the harlequins.
2018/10/16 22:37:10
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
To be fair, I forgot half the time they HAD that rule, so it won't effect my use of them too much. 99% of the time they are an intentional distraction Carnifex for me to have my enemy focus on while something else does the real killing.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/10/17 00:36:39
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Hey guys, I was thinking of picking up Necrons as a 2nd army and was wondering what the state of their codex is and how some of my favourite Cron units are. I tend to enjoy their beefier foot models. Not a fan of Flayed Ones, Warriors and Destroyers but I love Immortals, Deathmarks, Lychguard and Praetorian, as well as most of their bug servitors and flayers/vehicles.
2018/10/17 00:45:36
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
GenRifDrake wrote: Hey guys, I was thinking of picking up Necrons as a 2nd army and was wondering what the state of their codex is and how some of my favourite Cron units are. I tend to enjoy their beefier foot models. Not a fan of Flayed Ones, Warriors and Destroyers but I love Immortals, Deathmarks, Lychguard and Praetorian, as well as most of their bug servitors and flayers/vehicles.
Necrons are... really bad right now. We're generally considered the second worst codex after Grey Knights. There's some rumor mill going around that we're getting serious buffs in Chapter Approved so you might want to wait until December before starting the army.
2018/10/17 01:00:23
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
GenRifDrake wrote: Hey guys, I was thinking of picking up Necrons as a 2nd army and was wondering what the state of their codex is and how some of my favourite Cron units are. I tend to enjoy their beefier foot models. Not a fan of Flayed Ones, Warriors and Destroyers but I love Immortals, Deathmarks, Lychguard and Praetorian, as well as most of their bug servitors and flayers/vehicles.
Necrons are... really bad right now. We're generally considered the second worst codex after Grey Knights. There's some rumor mill going around that we're getting serious buffs in Chapter Approved so you might want to wait until December before starting the army.
It's more like "They are amazing in a casual setting" but "Very sub-par in a competitive setting".
The gist of it that you can't really go wrong in building a Necron army but you can't make it a super broken competitive tier army.
2018/10/17 01:08:51
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I mean yeah, anything works if you assume your opponent is bad at the game. I generally assume that people who ask about if a faction is good or not are working from the position of competing against people who are, on some level, playing to win, and if your opponent has an even marginally competitive mindset Necrons struggle on multiple levels.
2018/10/18 15:55:13
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Ok as if Rp'ing I've gone dormant for a few months from the hobby but I feel I should make an appearance. A friend of mine and shop owner is having a Birthday event where it's him vs all comers so like 10k vs 5x 2k armies etc where the number is at least equal to what he's running but can be more if a lot of people show up and we all get the minimum point lists.
And as if to add extra spice to the deadline my computers down at home with my only copy of the codex as well as all my pregen lists and various notes on how things interacted in my own words so I could re-acclimate myself promptly.
Anywho I need help coming up with a list to aid our unholy alliance against some Imperial soup.
I only have intel that one player will probably be running demons and will be playing Red Boi and maybe Cat on a keyboard, the rest of the composition is unknown.
Another one or two will probably be doing Tau, most likely they'll combine points and work together with one running infantry and the other armor/railguns.
Maybe one imperial guard player, likely running knights squad (guy i went in on our box set with) too but that's all the players I know well enough to guess..
-------------
Part of me says sit back and see how long I can last by doing something basic like Artillery support with a pylon and a couple of doomsday arks and maybe some repair units. But I have vague recollection that our artillery is kind of 'meh' in the sense its a coin flip on if it works and then we see if enemy ignores it for whatever reason.
Another part of me says 'if you are going super heavy anyway go in your face' and run 1 or 2 Tessearct ark, (maybe 1 pylon with tp if I have the points) and deceiver and just deploy into max saturation for power effects to bukakke his army and leave it to everyone else to clean up. Though I'd never used TA even before so with my brain on reset mode this could get pretty difficult pretty fast.
Even if I felt like being the 'vanguard' (since meat shield isn't fitting for crons) for advancing forces I know I dont want to run over 100 infantry if only because of space concerns that and the time it'd take to move all of that.
Thoughts?
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.
2018/10/18 16:03:41
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
How bout doing teleport shenanigans. Deep strike two monoliths turn two or three, keep a couple of mephrit warriors or novokh lychguard in the back and eternity gate them forward to cause pain.
Or obyron zahndrekh teleporting.
Let the others worry about the gun line (Tau/guard) midfield (daemons) etc. While you go for the fun jump around
2018/10/18 17:57:46
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Admittedly the idea of Necron acting as commandos and completely trying to stay on the sidelines as much as possible until something interesting happens and then tp'ing in to go after targets of opportunity is hilarious to me.
I doubt the monoliths would work well though, since I cant gate in units that turn if I remember correctly... They'll probably get blasted down after arriving and i'll either need to spend 1 or 2 CP to get the 2 units out or their points are wasted.
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.
2018/10/18 18:25:28
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Admittedly the idea of Necron acting as commandos and completely trying to stay on the sidelines as much as possible until something interesting happens and then tp'ing in to go after targets of opportunity is hilarious to me.
I doubt the monoliths would work well though, since I cant gate in units that turn if I remember correctly... They'll probably get blasted down after arriving and i'll either need to spend 1 or 2 CP to get the 2 units out or their points are wasted.
I was thinking not to use the Tombworld, but rather teleporting them from on the battlefield, just hold them back, surely hell be going after the killy stuff of those other armies before trying to wipe necron units. And killing the Monoliths doesnt come with the extra topping of slaying something expensive on the tomb world.
Turn 2 or 3 he is likely trying to maximize efforts against the most dangerous enemies, daemon princes drawing near etc. then boom, 40 shots S4 AP-2 with MWBD hitting on 2+, and 10 Lychguard with warscythes running around just wrecking face.
2018/10/18 19:13:15
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Monoliths eternity gate only works on tomb world units though doesn't it? Even if it doesn't I have to wait till the turn after the monoliths come down to gate anything over cause they descend at the end of movement but gate stuff at the start of movement~ correct?
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.
2018/10/18 19:37:33
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
10000 pts
4000 pts
Iron Hands - 12k 
The Shadewatch - 3k 
Cadmus Outriders - 4k 
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k 
10000+
10000+
3000+
8000+
