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Almost everybody got some huge point drops. This means more lethality in 40k and if they didnt change how RP works I assume we are still very low tier

We only have points currently, so it's a little early to throw that around, although you're probably right I'm remaining optimistic since the points were way nicer than anyone thought they would be.

I think we'll be in a better place aftewards, even if for the sole reason e arent limited to one-of-three builds that everyone already knows what to expect

Because I love some mathhammer and the new point changes shifted our best AV around a bit. I calculated the average damage inflicted on a target as well as how efficient they are in parenthesis, points per wound. Basically, the lower the number in parenthesis, the better the unit is.

Against a T8/3+:

DDA: 5.44 dmg (29.38) (old 35.45)
Nihilakh DDA: 6.35 dmg (25.19) (old 30.38)

1 Destroyer: 1.30 dmg (38.57) (old 38.57)
1 Destroyer w/ EP: 2.47 dmg (20.25) (old 20.25)

1 H. Destroyer: 1.81 dmg (27.55) (old 31.41)
1 H. Destroyer w/ EP: 2.77 dmg (18.08) (old 20.61)


Our true AV units(DDA and H. Destroyers) actually perform quite well now. After factoring in durability and range, regular destroyers don't seem to be the end all, be all anymore.

Since you can mix H destroyers and destroyers now without worrying about points costs, you can apply EP to them all.
This can be quite nasty.

I just cant see why its enough to pull us out of gak-tier.

Forgeworld

I'm not too familiar with Forge World, are those decreases or increases?

VERY glad to see a 35p drop for the Tomb Stalker. It's in almost all of my lists

This makes the Pylon almost Auto include again!

A list I came up with would be the Pylon.

A MSU Immortal battalion with 2 lords and 2 DDAs

2x Destroyers and Cryptek

1x Scarabs and somehow Wraiths

Move the points were needed

Biasn wrote:
I just cant see why its enough to pull us out of gak-tier.

Yeah, I'm not sure yet either considering everyone got point decreases somewhere.

I'm pretty happy with how they handled our AV issue though. As volatile as DDAs are, I may end up bringing some now.

Also, in one of the leaks, it mentioned there were datasheets updates on pg. 140-143, so CA doesn't look entirely just points we still have hope...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
This makes the Pylon almost Auto include again!

A list I came up with would be the Pylon.

A MSU Immortal battalion with 2 lords and 2 DDAs

2x Destroyers and Cryptek

1x Scarabs and somehow Wraiths

Move the points were needed

Yeah, Pylon history is weird. Went from 475 to 525 and now back to 475?

I'm still hesitant on bringing one with how prevalent 3/4++ invulns are (aka knights)

How much could they fit on 4 pages though?
I'm not sure we'll see that much of an overhaul.

Sentry Pylons are down 30 points!
YEEESSSSS!!!
My 9 Pylon list is even more viable!

Man...now it looks like ima need a pylon again (grumble) lol

I like alot of the reductions, but it still looks like we are dependent on destroyers for the sum total of our offense. Maybe we can start using lychguard and praetorians to supplement our offense.

Tesseract Ark got a huge drop which is nice.

I am reserving judgement until I see all the changes, but it looks like most lists can shave off around 200 points or so.

I don't know if that's going to be enough though.

Doomscythe dropped a massive 55 points from 205 to 150 points. Doomsday ark is down from 193 points to 160. If you bring 3 Doom scythes, plus mixed heavy plus normal destroyers, and 3 Doomsday arks. I bet it would give even an IK army some pause.

And with the points, drop, you can take such an army and still have points left to round up other areas.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Doomscythe dropped a massive 55 points from 205 to 150 points. Doomsday ark is down from 193 points to 160. If you bring 3 Doom scythes, plus mixed heavy plus normal destroyers, and 3 Doomsday arks. I bet it would give even an IK army some pause.

And with the points, drop, you can take such an army and still have points left to round up other areas.

Doomscyths main gun still hits on fours, and at a D3 shots that's kind of rough.

Trazyn might be the affordable Overlord choice if you need Nihilakh

 Grimgold wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Doomscythe dropped a massive 55 points from 205 to 150 points. Doomsday ark is down from 193 points to 160. If you bring 3 Doom scythes, plus mixed heavy plus normal destroyers, and 3 Doomsday arks. I bet it would give even an IK army some pause.

And with the points, drop, you can take such an army and still have points left to round up other areas.

Doomscyths main gun still hits on fours, and at a D3 shots that's kind of rough.

It would be worth it if the annihilator would actually get buffed to 2d or sth. Would also make the anni barge less sucky cause for 120pts its still... meh

I don’t know like, 8 self-stacking shots at s7 is decent

Sure it’s not going to delete a Knight solo, but it’s a pretty good gun

Chapter approved has triggered the awakening of Necrons on the tomb world of Alameda.

 Grimgold wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Doomscythe dropped a massive 55 points from 205 to 150 points. Doomsday ark is down from 193 points to 160. If you bring 3 Doom scythes, plus mixed heavy plus normal destroyers, and 3 Doomsday arks. I bet it would give even an IK army some pause.

And with the points, drop, you can take such an army and still have points left to round up other areas.

Doomscyths main gun still hits on fours, and at a D3 shots that's kind of rough.

But a Doomscrythe isn't just the death ray. It also has two tesla destructors. That's a d3 str 10 shots plus 8 tesla str 7 shots for just 150 points ... on a flyer to boot. If that BS 4+ is such a big deal, then take Sautekh dynasty and boom, you get your 3+ BS. Its worth it when you are running 3 doom scythes and 3 doomsday arks

High Strength Low Ap shooting is nearly useless. Which high toughness model has a bad armor save?

Biasn wrote:
High Strength Low Ap shooting is nearly useless. Which high toughness model has a bad armor save?

Great Unclean Ones.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Doomscythe dropped a massive 55 points from 205 to 150 points. Doomsday ark is down from 193 points to 160. If you bring 3 Doom scythes, plus mixed heavy plus normal destroyers, and 3 Doomsday arks. I bet it would give even an IK army some pause.

And with the points, drop, you can take such an army and still have points left to round up other areas.

Doomscyths main gun still hits on fours, and at a D3 shots that's kind of rough.

But a Doomscrythe isn't just the death ray. It also has two tesla destructors. That's a d3 str 10 shots plus 8 tesla str 7 shots for just 150 points ... on a flyer to boot. If that BS 4+ is such a big deal, then take Sautekh dynasty and boom, you get your 3+ BS. Its worth it when you are running 3 doom scythes and 3 doomsday arks

Also don't forget that stratagem, the amalgam, against tightly packed enemies it can be golden (MSU guardsmen blobs, or 2-3 LRBT for example)

Yea, tesla is decent against high invuln units. Though the mass S5 Tesla Carbine's found in Immortals or Tomb Blades often deals with such threats.
So yea, still no spot for the Barge as far as I can think of....

 Grimgold wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Doomscythe dropped a massive 55 points from 205 to 150 points. Doomsday ark is down from 193 points to 160. If you bring 3 Doom scythes, plus mixed heavy plus normal destroyers, and 3 Doomsday arks. I bet it would give even an IK army some pause.

And with the points, drop, you can take such an army and still have points left to round up other areas.

Doomscyths main gun still hits on fours, and at a D3 shots that's kind of rough.

Not if you take Sautekh.

torblind wrote:
Trazyn might be the affordable Overlord choice if you need Nihilakh

Honestly, I don't see that doing much because of how lame the Nihilakh trait is. You're gonna want to camp, and that long range stuff we have mostly went benefit from an Overlord.

With that said, 3 Doom Arks with a Spyder and Repairtek doesn't sound so bad now.

I honestly feel like our flyer slots would be better spent on night scythes. With lychguard w/ scythes at 28 points a pop, and a reasonable delivery method, they could ruin a knights day on a charge, just add disruption fields for 1 cp to bring them to str 8.

2/3 * 1/2 * 2 * 20 = 13 damage on average.

A knights CC won't be enough to wipe out the unit, especially if they get bracketed. Killing the nightscythe won't stop them thanks to emergency invasion beam, and even running from the night scythe is dubious, since the lychguard will get a 3" disembark, a 5" move and a charge.

As for the strength of tesla destructors against t8 3+ units,

(1/2 + (1/6 *3)) * 1/3 * 1/3 * 8 = .88 damage

Hot garbage, which means that the doom scythe can only depend on its main gun, which is still dubious at heavy D3. As for sahhtek, the problem with them is that is there is almost always a better dynasty for whatever your doing, and the better dynasty for Tesla destructors on flyers is mephrit, the -1 ap with talent for annihilation:

1/2 + (1/6 * 3) + (1/6 * (1/2 + (1/6 * 3)) * 1/3 * 1/2 * 8 = 1.5 damage

Which is almost twice the damage and still hot garbage. TDs are so ridiculously useless, that having one is a black mark against any vehicle. For instance they had a huge point drop on the annihilation barges, and they are still awful. The best part about a AB is that it can take a gauss cannon, so it's a double cost destroyer.

I've said it before and will say it again, until they fix the Tesla destructor we have a huge hole in our army that can't be filled by points reductions. People are hung up on what it did in prior editions, and think that -1 ap and 2 damage is somehow going to over power it. Just make it cost points, if it's appropriately cost it will bring four of our durable weapon platforms off of the bench.

So, these are the significant point drops rvd1ofakind promised I was right not to believe him Some nice point reductions, could be better, though.