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I’ve been having games with my friends and one of us uses Aggressors, because they look sweet, but the rest of us play mostly melee focused armies. Aggressors don’t seem too tough but when you have to get within their 18” range and suffer a volley and then overwatch, they become unbelievably devastating to just about anything with the amount of shots they can get. Mix that with a chapter master letting them re-roll all hits and an Lt. giving them re-roll wound rolls of 1’s and they’re next to unbeatable with a melee focused army. They took out a blob of 20 genestealers and a Trygon in the last game he played against our Tyranid friend, killing both in a turn each, which just seems sort of bonkers to me.

Are we doing it wrong or are Aggressors really just a bit too pokey atm? I’m sure a ranged army could easily wreck them but how do you go about facing them with a melee army?

Thanks in advance

How many aggressors did he take? If 6, how much do they cost compared to the units they took out? Now, how much do they cost once you throw an LT and a Captain near them for buffs?

They are quite nasty, but they're still just 3+ armor saves.

Agressors are pretty potent gun units in short ranged situations. in this case it's just a case of them being the perfect paper for the rest of your guyses rocks.

 troa wrote:
How many aggressors did he take? If 6, how much do they cost compared to the units they took out? Now, how much do they cost once you throw an LT and a Captain near them for buffs?

They are quite nasty, but they're still just 3+ armor saves.

With CA2017, they are reduced in points, 3 of them cost 111pts, 6 would be 222pts then. Tbh, if they did not move and those Genestealers are somehow stupid enough to go into 18" range in the open in the last turn, a three man unit would kill 12 of them (worth 144pts) in one round of shooting. If those Genestealer are in cover within 18" they still kill 9 Genestealers (108pts) on average. That is even without any kind of buff. Imagine what kind of firepower a 6 man unit close to Guilliman could throw out at those approaching hordes.

That is quite strong VS horde units on paper for sure, However, no Nidz player will be that kind of reckless snd stupid. They can stall the Genestealers 18.1" from the Aggressors. With their mobility, they can still easily make the charge next turn, but the Aggressors need to move forward if they want to shoot at the Genestealers so their firepower would be halved.

Hell. if you Nidz players worry Aggressors, just take 1 less unit of Genestealers, and take an Exocrine (which is just about 200pts right?) and a unit of Venomthrope. Then you can lol as those 6 Aggressors melted like snow under bright sun and the marinee player rage quit in your 1st turn.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 troa wrote:
How many aggressors did he take? If 6, how much do they cost compared to the units they took out? Now, how much do they cost once you throw an LT and a Captain near them for buffs?

They are quite nasty, but they're still just 3+ armor saves.

With CA2017, they are reduced in points, 3 of them cost 111pts, 6 would be 222pts then. Tbh, if they did not move and those Genestealers are somehow stupid enough to go into 18" range in the open in the last turn, a three man unit would kill 12 of them (worth 144pts) in one round of shooting. If those Genestealer are in cover within 18" they still kill 9 Genestealers (108pts) on average. That is even without any kind of buff. Imagine what kind of firepower a 6 man unit close to Guilliman could throw out at those approaching hordes.

That is quite strong VS horde units on paper for sure, However, no Nidz player will be that kind of reckless snd stupid. They can stall the Genestealers 18.1" from the Aggressors. With their mobility, they can still easily make the charge next turn, but the Aggressors need to move forward if they want to shoot at the Genestealers so their firepower would be halved.

Hell. if you Nidz players worry Aggressors, just take 1 less unit of Genestealers, and take an Exocrine (which is just about 200pts right?) and a unit of Venomthrope. Then you can lol as those 6 Aggressors melted like snow under bright sun and the marinee player rage quit in your 1st turn.

There is usually no need to grab an exocrine to deal with those. Just your standard amount of deathspitters, venom cannons and impaler cannons will work.

Spoletta wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 troa wrote:
How many aggressors did he take? If 6, how much do they cost compared to the units they took out? Now, how much do they cost once you throw an LT and a Captain near them for buffs?

They are quite nasty, but they're still just 3+ armor saves.

With CA2017, they are reduced in points, 3 of them cost 111pts, 6 would be 222pts then. Tbh, if they did not move and those Genestealers are somehow stupid enough to go into 18" range in the open in the last turn, a three man unit would kill 12 of them (worth 144pts) in one round of shooting. If those Genestealer are in cover within 18" they still kill 9 Genestealers (108pts) on average. That is even without any kind of buff. Imagine what kind of firepower a 6 man unit close to Guilliman could throw out at those approaching hordes.

That is quite strong VS horde units on paper for sure, However, no Nidz player will be that kind of reckless snd stupid. They can stall the Genestealers 18.1" from the Aggressors. With their mobility, they can still easily make the charge next turn, but the Aggressors need to move forward if they want to shoot at the Genestealers so their firepower would be halved.

Hell. if you Nidz players worry Aggressors, just take 1 less unit of Genestealers, and take an Exocrine (which is just about 200pts right?) and a unit of Venomthrope. Then you can lol as those 6 Aggressors melted like snow under bright sun and the marinee player rage quit in your 1st turn.

There is usually no need to grab an exocrine to deal with those. Just your standard amount of deathspitters, venom cannons and impaler cannons will work.

Yea, sure the Impaler Cannons, Venom Cannons
can also dealt a serious blow against Aggressors, I just happened to notice Exocrine might be the most efficient units that destroy Aggressors quick....

I like aggressors. The firepower they can throw out is indeed kind of crazy, especially when they stand still. But on the other hand they are expensive and have only 3+ saves.

You don’t have to be a complete idiot to get caught in their 18” range. It’s actually very common the turn after an assault. You hit the intercessors, who die or fall back, and the aggressors are waiting behind.

I quite often use a unit of 5, either on foot or, if my opponent has a lot of shooting, in a repulsor. They do real work.

No AP and Str 4. Not game breaking, but potent. They are still on a fragile platform and prone to being erased easy with multi-wound weapons. I wish Gravis gave an additional wound on top of the bonus Toughness.

They can be amazing, or they can fall to a slightly stiff breeze. Really comes down to army composition. If your army is a one dimensional list with depth the thickness of a sheet of paper...sometimes you face rock and sometimes you face scissors. Even an army that’s melee only can use pile in to tie them up. If you can’t properly get in with genestealers then it just takes practice and smarter positioning.

Aggressors are hardly the most terrifying shooting out there. Try facing down something like a dakkastellan or an IG gunline, aggressors look like fluffy kittens by comparison.

If you are having issues with them, odds are you just need to incorporate some sort of ranged firepower into your list, or accept that you need to use different tactics to close the distance.

Don't see anyone using Aggressors around here (and we have some heavy-melee lists). I think only RG and SW will have some use for them

I was going to say; Just Shoot them.

There firepower is stupid high, but their toughness [as in difficulty to kill, rather than the specific stat] really isn't that great. They're easier to kill than Terminators by most things, and die hardcore to plasma, or even just autocannons. [And there tyranid versions.]

They're not a bad unit, and they will kill something when they drop, but they're not broken.

If you have to melee them because you're not bringing a shooty option I'd suggest trying to either use terrain to avoid the overwatch or running something with high toughness and decent armor in first to take the brunt of it. Rhino's, Devilfish, etc. Though as others have stated it would be easier to just shoot them.

If its a big blob of them with support characters etc. best thing to do might just be to ignore/play around them as best possible.

 Sleep Spell wrote:
If you have to melee them because you're not bringing a shooty option I'd suggest trying to either use terrain to avoid the overwatch or running something with high toughness and decent armor in first to take the brunt of it. Rhino's, Devilfish, etc. Though as others have stated it would be easier to just shoot them.

If its a big blob of them with support characters etc. best thing to do might just be to ignore/play around them as best possible.

yeah they definitly have some spooky shooting for all melee opponents. However, lots of melee options do have options for making overwatch impossible. For instance eldar have a warlord with a banshees mask that can turn off overwatch when he charges in.

Well, they're 2W T5 3+ save models that are somewhat pricey so shooting them off the table isn't too hard. Their double-tap threat range is also fairly low to very low (18" for bolters + launchers, 8" for flamers). Either shoot them or force them to move to shoot you (by assaulting something outside their bubble) which halves their firepower. For example, Genestealers are very mobile. Move them to attack something of value outside their bubble, then next turn when they've moved send in your Trygon to absorb their now halved shooting and overwatch and eat them. If he's got everything castled up within 18", play the board control and objective game to either force him to move his arse or win through objectives instead of killing stuff.

Since we are talking about aggressors why do they have 2 nearly identical weapon systems? S4 Assault 6 shootie fists and S4 assault d6 frag missiles both 18". They can trade both for flamers which gives them another option but why not have a krak option for their launchers like even assault s6 d3 -2AP would be a great option and I don't think too op?

In my mind the gauntlets/missle pods just don't make sense to me. If you are gonna put 2 different weapons on something they should be "DIFFERENT" I would hope.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
tactics to close the distance.

Like what, for example?

You guys are complaining about a unit belonging to one of the saddest army in 8th edition. You are pathetic. Don't you (xeno players) have enough nutella to deal with them? You surely do.

I field aggressors (only 3) in a fairly melee heavy local meta and they're great. When backed up by Azrael (and maybe a Darkshroud), even shooting struggles to take them down.

18 RG aggressors with shrike and an LT can win games if they get turn 1.

Essentially, yes they're very very good, but they're also situational.

They work in two maybe three situations.
Being able to deploy in range with buff charictors and deliver an alpha stike against infantry. So only ravenguard can pull that off.

Being baby sat by a -1 to hit modifier aura unit or two making removing them via shooting difficult. Dark angles only

Opponent doing something silly, like charging them while allowing overwatch, deepstrike in range of them.

But unless you need to be within 18 inches of them they can be out manovered and ignored.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Are we doing it wrong or are Aggressors really just a bit too pokey atm? I’m sure a ranged army could easily wreck them but how do you go about facing them with a melee army?

You really answered your own question. Yes, you are doing wrong, yes, some raged units would deal with them more effectively, and to deal wit them using a melee army, balance out your units more. Having said all of that, if you are determined to stick to melee, either charge them with something that has a longer reach than their guns, or something which can better shrug off their low AP weaponry.

And Spado, chill out. It is a game that he is playing in a casual way with his mates. He is hardly ranting for pages and pages.

Ice_can wrote:
They work in two maybe three situations.
Being able to deploy in range with buff charictors and deliver an alpha stike against infantry. So only ravenguard can pull that off.

Being baby sat by a -1 to hit modifier aura unit or two making removing them via shooting difficult. Dark angles only

Opponent doing something silly, like charging them while allowing overwatch, deepstrike in range of them.

But unless you need to be within 18 inches of them they can be out manovered and ignored.

RG get the -1 from shooting too, and if you're stupid enough to DS in front of them they won't be over watching you, the Auspex scan will wipe you out.

In response to OP, if I wasn't a marine player I'd probably think they were too much. As it is I do think they could do with a points bump. Then again, if you're not RG or DA there are better things to take, and idk about RG but at tournament level I've only seen one DA list with any in

I routinely play against 18 and never have an issue dealing with them. Drop Tzaangors at 12.01" before Warp Time - wrap a unit so it can't fall back. Pop cultists in Rapid Fire range of another - they're great if you give them time to shoot at you. They're not so great when you engage them before they can shoot and start locking out their shooting.

very high potential unit with a huge downside. Have to stay still and shoot only 18" to shoot twice. If they had range they would be auto include - very easy to skip over them with 18".

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
I routinely play against 18 and never have an issue dealing with them. Drop Tzaangors at 12.01" before Warp Time - wrap a unit so it can't fall back. Pop cultists in Rapid Fire range of another - they're great if you give them time to shoot at you. They're not so great when you engage them before they can shoot and start locking out their shooting.

So no scouts bubble wrapping them?

 Primark G wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
I routinely play against 18 and never have an issue dealing with them. Drop Tzaangors at 12.01" before Warp Time - wrap a unit so it can't fall back. Pop cultists in Rapid Fire range of another - they're great if you give them time to shoot at you. They're not so great when you engage them before they can shoot and start locking out their shooting.

So no scouts bubble wrapping them?

Scouts and Nurglings are two way game, depends on who drops first but I'm going to get to carve out a part of the table as my bubble. Only question is do I get to establish a 36" zone or a 9" zone.

I use Flame aggressors and have faced both types. I love the idea of the model, but they can't be screened by anything less than a vehicle or building. Like Hellblasters, they tend to draw a ton of fire and it's hard work to get them to live long enough to do enough work to justify their cost.

They are only really scary when you ravenguard them in range.

if they are moving they are ok. and you can easily play around them. and their are options to deal with the overwatch dakka and the likes.

otherwise just shoot them and they will fall.

Yeah they're on the extreme end of being a Glass cannon. The T5 doesn't cut it at their cost.

I've proxied them before by infiltrating a 2 groups of 4 to help keep costs at a minimum. I can't decide if I should make them each a cool 5 or keep them as is. I'm going through the motions of trying to counter Tau and Necrons and the soon-to-be Dark Eldar.

 koooaei wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
tactics to close the distance.

Like what, for example?

He's nids right? Should have some options for deepstriking genestealers and the like. Don't they have a spore pod or a burrowing creature to get them in close? Plus he's got that swarmlord ability and I think they get a oyschic power to allow a unit to move further too. It doesn't sound like he's playing in a very tough meta if they're mostly melee so screens shouldn't be too bad. Otherwise he'll either need to pop the screen with another unit and drop them turn 2-3 or accept he needs some sort of shooting.

Not a nid expert clearly but I've bought them enough to know they have ways to close that distance with frightening regularity.