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Voss wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:

Voss wrote:
They still need to get to the fight. Until that gets fixed, they're still a poor sixth choice behind reavers, wyches, wracks, grotesques and even hellions. And maybe some of the beasts as well.

Oh gak I forgot they can't ride in transports because they have no affiliation.
Jeez you have to wonder if anyone playtests half these rules.

No wait I'm getting confused. They can ride in transports can't they?

Absolutely they can.

But in older editions, incubi could jump off transports and assault in the same turn, so delivering them to a target wasn't a problem.

In 8th edition, that can't happen. You have to conveniently park near an enemy, pass the turn and let them decide what to do about it.


Wych cult units are fast (or only slightly faster and cheaper) and don't care, Coven units are tough enough to soak fire. Both categories have options, characters, obsessions AND stratagems to make whatever option you take better. Incubi have t3 and 3+ and...nothing to help get into the fight. t3/3+ just doesn't make the grade for a melee-only unit that lacks the depth of support given to the rest of the codex.

Hopefully they get a decent buff.
The Banshees are getting Exarch powers. Maybe the Incubi will get something similar.
Something to compensate for not getting obsessions.

I think there is going to be a box set, Incubi vs Banshees with the exarch and klaivex in there as additional models

Apologies if this has already been done to death, but does anyone have any opinions/insight into how worthwhile Yvraine is in a Kabalite list; instead of a second Achon?

 harlokin wrote:
Apologies if this has already been done to death, but does anyone have any opinions/insight into how worthwhile Yvraine is in a Kabalite list; instead of a second Achon?

Well, Yvraine is more expensive and she won't be able to support your troops at all (just like the Archon ).

In melee, they're pretty similar with Yvraine basically having a Huskblade and just 1 fewer attack.

Yvraine almost certainly has better survivability, though, with a 4++ and the chance to regain a wound every time an Eldar model dies within 6" of her.

But by far her most important ability is that she's a psyker. She can only deny one power per turn but that's still one more tha DE usually manage and she gets +1 to casting and deny rolls to boot.

In terms of powers, Gaze and smite let her potentially do 2d3 Mortal Wounds per turn. As for her second power, Word of the Phoenix gives her more healing whilst Unbind Souls makes her almost as dangerous as a Harlequin Troupe Master.

Overall, I'd say she adds quite a bit over an Archon. Unfortunately, if you want to make her your warlord (to make use of her survivability) then you'll find her warlord trait is absolute crap.

Yvraine over a second Archon really boils down to "Is getting access to two psychic powers and a deny a turn worth 50 points to you?"

I'd say so, but it might depend on what else that 50 points could do for you.

Thanks for the replies.

You could almost get a Succubus for 50 pts so what you could ask is, would an Archon and Succubus achieve more for you in a game than 1 x Yvraine?

I think the Yncarne is something players need to start thinking about now.

 Elfric wrote:
I think the Yncarne is something players need to start thinking about now.

I'm trying it at the moment, though I've only had one game with it so far.

Ynnari have some decent powers, though some of them only really work in a Ynnari detachment. Hence, you're basically just going to be using Ancestor's Grace, Gaze of Ynnead (self-only) and Smite. These aren't bad powers but it's worth rembering that a Ynnari Shadowseer, Farseer or Yvraine could do the same for ~1/3 of the cost (in face, the latter two are actually better at casting and denying powers than the Yncarne).

He does have an aura which is useless on DE infantry (since PfP gives the same bonus) but I believe it does work on vehicles, so there's that. Of course, the vehicles would have to be taken in a Ynnari detachment, which is likely to be of dubious value compared with Flayed Skull or Black Heart.

The Yncarne is certainly impressive in melee with 6 attacks at WS2+ S6 AP-4 Dd6 and rerolling failed wound rolls (plus Ancestor's Grace to reroll 1s to hit).

However, he's got no ranged attack outside of Smite/Gaze - which is a bit of a blow for a model costing over 330pts. What's more, he only has M8" and so is reliant on his Summoned By Death ability to get where he needs to. And since you can't charge when you use this ability you're basically relying on your opponent to kill the right unit (for you) at the right time.

Also, defensively he's T6 with a 3+/4++ and 9 wounds (plus his own 6+++ aura). Not awful but he won't stand up to any concentrated firepower so in combination with relying on your opponent to position him you also can't afford to expose him to enemy fire.

I mean, when I look at a Winged Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - which has near enough the same statline, an aura, can also cast 2 psychic powers per turn, and has less-tricky but far more reliable mobility. The only place it's really worse is that it's not quite as good in melee. Yet for just slightly more than the cost of the Yncarne you can get two of those daemon princes.

For me at least, it's really hard to justify the cost of the Yncarne.

I think ynnari lists with beasts and the yncarne is something that should be explored, especially razorwing flocks.

Her aura works on the birds to give them an actual save when you need them as a screen. You can also run something like 1 big squad and 2 smaller ones to use as Summoned by Death fodder since they are so mobile and fly, you can charge a tank behind a screen, and when they get killed (ideally in their fight phase), you pop the yncarne in their backline to wreck havoc.
I think it can be quite useful honestly. its still quite pricy but if it gets a price reduction / new rules in the upcoming chapter approved, it might become a mainstay.

As someone that uses Yncarne, its not good a tall anymore. And the Ynnari community has tried Yncarne + Beasts, its not as good as it seems on paper sadly.

The Yncarne is just way over costed at this point.

To add: We did many scenarios, DP's, Broodlords, and many other heroes with melee+Powers are just better for the points.

The Yncarne if stays at that high point value (which they may want that) needs some more useful rules though stratagems, ynnari, etc...

 Amishprn86 wrote:
As someone that uses Yncarne, its not good a tall anymore. And the Ynnari community has tried Yncarne + Beasts, its not as good as it seems on paper sadly.

The Yncarne is just way over costed at this point.

To add: We did many scenarios, DP's, Broodlords, and many other heroes with melee+Powers are just better for the points.

The Yncarne if stays at that high point value (which they may want that) needs some more useful rules though stratagems, ynnari, etc...

What about the Visarch? He seems overlooked in favour of the Yncarne and Yvraine.

 Elfric wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
As someone that uses Yncarne, its not good a tall anymore. And the Ynnari community has tried Yncarne + Beasts, its not as good as it seems on paper sadly.

The Yncarne is just way over costed at this point.

To add: We did many scenarios, DP's, Broodlords, and many other heroes with melee+Powers are just better for the points.

The Yncarne if stays at that high point value (which they may want that) needs some more useful rules though stratagems, ynnari, etc...

What about the Visarch? He seems overlooked in favour of the Yncarne and Yvraine.

The reason he's overlooked is that Yvraine and the Yncarne bring something DE doesn't normally have access to - namely psychic powers.

Meanwhile, the Visarch is an overpriced melee HQ in an army that already has basically nothing but overpriced melee HQs.

Ran into the triple riptide tau army last Saturday. I got fairly heavily destroyed. Oh and my grotesques finally failed the charge for once and got lit up pretty hard. One overwatch and a shooting phase later and they were completely wiped out. They're fairly durable too so that amount of firepower is ridiculous. Also riptides will always be in range to shoot our ravagers with heavy burst cannons so there's no real way around em esp. since we only have a limit on 3 ravagers. The army also consisted of 3 broadsides and plenty of drones. Kinda getting annoyed at our lack of long ranged anti-infantry aside from dissies and splinter cannons (and splinter cannons suck at long range). Against tau it forces me to maybe get close to take our the drones and that can be tough.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Ran into the triple riptide tau army last Saturday. I got fairly heavily destroyed. Oh and my grotesques finally failed the charge for once and got lit up pretty hard. One overwatch and a shooting phase later and they were completely wiped out. They're fairly durable too so that amount of firepower is ridiculous. Also riptides will always be in range to shoot our ravagers with heavy burst cannons so there's no real way around em esp. since we only have a limit on 3 ravagers. The army also consisted of 3 broadsides and plenty of drones. Kinda getting annoyed at our lack of long ranged anti-infantry aside from dissies and splinter cannons (and splinter cannons suck at long range). Against tau it forces me to maybe get close to take our the drones and that can be tough.

What was your list? What was the mission type? Are you willing to ally?

It's the list I always run with 3 shredderborn units in 3 venoms, 10 groteques and haemi in ds, and dark lance ravagers which I never remember to take as dissies. Oh and 2 void lance void ravens which I should probably switch with razorwings with dissies.

Mission type was hold objectives at game end which he never told me until late in the game by accident. Either way 3 were on his side so at best I could've tied if I didn't take ground in range of all his guns.

For the moment I don't want to ally but if I did I'd go for harlies which probably wouldn't do much with the haywire loadout I'd normally use.

The main issue of my Army is I can't afford more stuff. Otherwise I'd try full dissies and maybe 120 warriors wish 24 blasters. It's untested but dissies seem decent at times and crap in others. STR 5, decent ap and 2 damage isn't too bad though.

So we might be in a pickle along with everyone else verse NuMahreens lol. That -1 damage iron hand relic really puts the screws to our dissies. Heck, it even screws macro scalpels entirely. With all the to hit bonuses and chapter masters new improved aura our hit mods are looking less effective too.

I was planning on expanding my wych cult too, but primaris with shock assault are better at punching as well. I think we can still do better then a lot of other armies, but I feel our list of options just got a lot shorter when it comes to staying competitive.

Anyone have any clever ideas of the bat?

Mass haywire I think from Skyweavers and Talos. I'm hearing that Leviathan IH dreadnought is harder to kill than pre nerf Castellan

 Elfric wrote:
Mass haywire I think from Skyweavers and Talos. I'm hearing that Leviathan IH dreadnought is harder to kill than pre nerf Castellan

Yea don't bother building to kill that thing. You need to ignore it or tie it up. It will have armor of contempt used and then it will heal 6 wound plus d3 from a psychic power the next turn. Personally, I don't like skyweavers and now that doom is out I honestly don't find them nearly as effective when they can use armor of contempt. 6 will shoot ~21 shots, 14 hits, for about 7-8 mortals then they ignore 2-3 of that so your only doing about 5 wounds. Plus I don't want to jump to clowns in a dark eldar tactic thread

I think our best bet is killing their infantry, issue is mass poison is awful verse primaris and volume of damage 1 ap0 is no better. I am guessing coven is our best build once again. They don't care about the marines extra ap from doctrines, they have high enough toughness and the quality of their attacks, despite relying on punching, to kill through multi wound marines. Trouble with that is grotesques are more durable then talos and they can be tremor shell or hit with the halve move psychic power. So that leaves us pigeon holed to talos yet again like you suggested. I just was hoping we were not their quite yet as it is generally a sign that we are sliding down the pole toward the bottom again lol.

I really was enjoying wych cult, but I am not sure they can do it anymore due to shock assault and the shear volume of fire. 6 agressors have 114 shots on average for feths sake They are basically baby castellan robots, only they don't need to risk staying put all game and they hit like a ton of bricks in assault. Iron hands can overwatch on a 4+ and everyone else can fall back and shoot due to chapter tactics or strats lol. I like a new challenge, but this is a tough nut

If you're going up against Iron Hands (and in tournaments over the next few months, you will be), they'll probably be bringing enough vehicles that Skyweavers will be worth it even if you want to ignore the Leviathan.

If you want to stick purely to Drukhari - or, at least, not spend 1000 points on bringing 18 Harlie bikes - Talos are probably the best bet, but even they're not super good against Iron Hands vehicles.

It's a rough match-up, especially for our boats and planes. Trying to hide out of line of sight of the castle, hoping to slip past overwatch into combat and generally playing the objective game might be the best hope.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/30/wield-the-living-swordgw-homepage-post-1/

Flat 2 damage and causing 4 wounds on rolls of 6 is nice. Combine that with Onslaught and his natural ability to fight twice, he'll murder other characters

I'm glad he's more viable now. I used to take him only because it was the only way to field two Kabalite battalions in 2000 pts while respecting the Rule of Three. Now I might actually take him because he's good at killing Primaris marines.

I want to see his Aura, Points, and main stats still i judge, but no matter what he is already better than the current one.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I want to see his Aura, Points, and main stats still i judge, but no matter what he is already better than the current one.

His old aura is such crap. 10 to 1 odds it is copy pasted over. Rather then +1 to hit I hope i is +1 to wound, suddenly incubi become interesting again. Hopefully he keeps hatred eternal because that actually makes him more dangerous.

If its +1 to wound that would be AMAZING

Away from books right now... Does Lethal Precision for regular Incubi trigger on a 6+ to wound, or on an unmodified 6 (like the one they just gave Drazhar)?

Even if it's on an unmodified 6, a +1 to wound would still be more useful than +1 to hit, since Incubi are already hitting on 2+ from turn 3 onwards thanks to Power From Pain.

-Guardsman- wrote:
Away from books right now... Does Lethal Precision for regular Incubi trigger on a 6+ to wound, or on an unmodified 6 (like the one they just gave Drazhar)?

Even if it's on an unmodified 6, a +1 to wound would still be more useful than +1 to hit, since Incubi are already hitting on 2+ from turn 3 onwards thanks to Power From Pain.

6+ currently

-Guardsman- wrote:
Away from books right now... Does Lethal Precision for regular Incubi trigger on a 6+ to wound, or on an unmodified 6 (like the one they just gave Drazhar)?

Even if it's on an unmodified 6, a +1 to wound would still be more useful than +1 to hit, since Incubi are already hitting on 2+ from turn 3 onwards thanks to Power From Pain.

I'm betting it'll change to an unmodified 6 in Psychic Awakening. With the Klaivex getting access to Demi-klaives again I'd be very surprised if there isn't a new datasheet for Incubi, but I don't expect much change for them.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I want to see his Aura, Points, and main stats still i judge, but no matter what he is already better than the current one.

His old aura is such crap. 10 to 1 odds it is copy pasted over. Rather then +1 to hit I hope i is +1 to wound, suddenly incubi become interesting again. Hopefully he keeps hatred eternal because that actually makes him more dangerous.

Agreed as STR 4 melee isn't totally enough now since we need 5. With multiple damage en mass could actually handle monsters and tanks. The issue being they're still t 3 and 3 up armor is still just armor rather than a nice inv. Save.Might be worth a shot to try and see how they compare to grotesques since sub factions get way more buffs.

Hey folks!

So I am mainly an AoS player, but was thinking of getting into 40k as a sort of side project. Sometimes you just need to shoot some ray guns, instead of swinging that sword over and over, you know?

Played 40k for several editions as an Ork player. Quit around 5th edition or so. I no longer have my Orks (long story) and I am not very happy with the current version of the Ork army. Faced with the prospect of starting Orks over from scratch, I feel like if you are going to buy (or in my case, REbuy) and paint that many models, you should really love what you are building, and that's just not where I'm at right now.

Cue the Drukhari. Always thought they had a cool concept for an army. Thinking about giving them a whirl. Just starting my preliminary research - already hitting 1d4chan, YouTube, etc. Thought I would see what you folks had to say.

1) how are pure Drukhari armies performing these days?

2) how dependent on CP's are they?

3) what's the usual model count for a 2000 pt army these days? How many infantry and vehicles?

4) having so many large flying vehicles seems like a pain to transport. Is this true and what do you to counter that?

5) how many, and what sorts of detachments do you use?

I guess that's enough to get me started. Thanks in advance!